Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Bohra spring
Posts: 1335
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#751

Unread post by Bohra spring » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:46 pm

Yes I respect Umar RA ,there are reformist Shia who have realised there is no sin to respect the Khalifas and revere Ahlul Bayt just as reformist Sunni who respect Ahlul Bayt and Khalifa Rashidun.

This is my direct warning to the website. Robust debate is ok. But If it allows hate, vulgarv insult towards Prophet SAW companions or Ahlul-bayt you run risk of destructive wrath of 95% Muslims. This site is searchable. Criticism of Diai is not at same level as criticism of Khalifa Rashidun. A diai achievement or status is insignificant to Ahlul-bayt or the companions.

Successor to the compiler Abubakr RA into kitab form of Quran your Dias so rigorously try to do hifz on its basis.

The Khalifa who took down Christian Byzantine and Zoroastrian Sasanid, Jerusalem.

If you don't like it try denouncing Umar's reputation publicly and watch how like Qadyani you get into real trouble.

There is no written literature ever or exists that says Ali ibn Abi Talib AS, Imam Hassan, Imam Hussein, Imam Sajjad Zainul Abidin ever criticised Umar RA to the extent Shias do today. Show me evidence. Not tawil BS and I promise I will revert back to Bohraism. So try being real Shias of Ali AS not Shias of some Qazis.

You will deny to accept Khalifa were not your enemy because it is so embarrassing to accept Imam Ali gave Umar RA, whether as love or political symbolic reasons his daughter. To have a physical relationship with Umar RA. You do know marriage leads to sharing intimacy that results in children. Shias are not that naive to not know what is marriage.

Would you in 21st century offer your daughter to marry and sleep with your rival family ? What did SKQ do he asked his daughters to separate from SMS sons out of their petty dispute of negligible significance to 2 billion Muslims. Get my point. Let FD explain how they would not reconcile a much superior institution of marriage that is a far more significant wajib and sunna than disputing a Diai position. Why is it so unShia to not have 2 Diais side by side. Which kitab states a diai of Islam is only Diai for a tribal culture. Don't you see what kind of iman you are stuck in.

Shia are so blinded by the books written 200 years after Saqifa events that they are now locked into a division theory filled with hate that never was. That hate has produced your current iman. Your Diais exploit that division to keep you ignorant and them rich. It is mind boggling hard to accept. Yet you will risk wrath on judgement day that you insisted to follow a dispute to end for your egos.

If people read intellectually about the 2 companions you will be so surprised that Ali ib Abi Talib AS the real Ali AS , not the myth character traditional Shia like Bohra have created in their theology, how much he respected and vice versa they cared about each other. They had political disputes without doubt but never crossed the line for their united love of Islam or Prophet SAW hard work.

But Shia as a result of political fitna centuries later started doctoring history. And geopolitical wars between emerging rivalries that created Sunni and Shia. Don't het me wrong Umar or the 3 Khalifa never ever called them Sunni . That term also came 200 years later by the use of terms to identify a group of theologians.

I challenge you ask your Dias, where did they kearn about Imam Ali AS , which book, when was it written they lead to the times so later and by authors in courts. The equivalent of Qazis , poets and opinionated scholars. You are literally so off track that you no longer follow Quran or logic but a mythology.
Shabab wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:41 am
Bohra spring wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:48 pm Can STF declare openly that the next Diai will not be selected from direct relationship but will be on merit. Lead the change from within.
Again stating. You are UMAR and Muawiyah lover ( lanat on them and their followers).Please do not poke your nose in shia affairs until you are a bohra or atleast a shia.

Do not derail our discussions.

juzer esmail
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:24 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#752

Unread post by juzer esmail » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:28 pm

I don't think any Shia faction believes that Umar(LA) was son in law of Maula Ali AS, let alone us Dawoodi Bohra!

Bohra spring
Posts: 1335
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#753

Unread post by Bohra spring » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:01 pm

Beliefs are sometimes emotional and not based on facts.

I can understand your situation, your ancestors, culture, traditions, poetry, from the moment people were born to moment they die have been brought under a belief that so and so were bad . It feels like condemn the other is sawab and showing tolerance is haram. I was born in a Dawoodi spell too.

And whatever logic or fact is presented there will be equal reasons and influencers to deny it.

You and I arguing over it will not change what actually happened or not 1400 yrs ago. But what you and I can control is what our words and actions we take will either unite , live true to our original faith purpose or continue living on edge inviting from each other conflict.
juzer esmail wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:28 pm I don't think any Shia faction believes that Umar(LA) was son in law of Maula Ali AS, let alone us Dawoodi Bohra!

juzer esmail
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:24 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#754

Unread post by juzer esmail » Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:00 am

Bhai everybody knows what happened after the demise of our Nabi SAW! The Dawoodi Bohra maslak believes in the Panjatan Pak A.S. and does lanat on the enemies of Ahl Al Bait. And would continue to teach future generations which those enemies were!

Bohra spring
Posts: 1335
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#755

Unread post by Bohra spring » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:02 pm

I will state this point blank.

I have not read or heard what DB 50th Diai said or heard him say it. Neither all your previous 49 Diai said or did. I cannot accuse them of guilt. That's history

However i have personally heard SMB and SMS say vile statements to Khalifa Rashidun. I condemn the 2 for their words and actions when you expect them to show scholarly leadership. I hope SMB reflected on his actions and sought forgiveness from Allah. If not it is now between him and his real Master.

For SMS, I have heard and seen him personally say vile things, I observe his talibins say it under his authority horrible curses. He has opportunity to come back on haq and stop this terrible pollution, remove it from jamia etc. If he continues and gets caught and is charged with blasphemy or public disorder he has himself to blame. As for his followers. Quran has verses to reflect on punishment for blind followers. There will be inexcusable consequences.

With regards to STF i have not personally heard him publicly say anything disrespectful. He can go ahead and he can believe what he wants as it does not make him any less believer. He can debate courteously and respectfully historical events.

With people like yourself with so insignificant knowledge or authority, i am lost and pity what motives you to continue your abuses fanatically. Anyway you exploit that our real Maula is merciful
juzer esmail wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:00 am Bhai everybody knows what happened after the demise of our Nabi SAW! The Dawoodi Bohra maslak believes in the Panjatan Pak A.S. and does lanat on the enemies of Ahl Al Bait. And would continue to teach future generations which those enemies were!


Bohra spring
Posts: 1335
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#757

Unread post by Bohra spring » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:33 am

But they have not learned. They still tease the crowds by calling out awal, sani, salis and crowd chants k lanat.

kseeker
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#758

Unread post by kseeker » Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:59 am

Bohra spring wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:46 pm Yes I respect Umar RA ,there are reformist Shia who have realised there is no sin to respect the Khalifas and revere Ahlul Bayt just as reformist Sunni who respect Ahlul Bayt and Khalifa Rashidun.

This is my direct warning to the website. Robust debate is ok. But If it allows hate, vulgarv insult towards Prophet SAW companions or Ahlul-bayt you run risk of destructive wrath of 95% Muslims. This site is searchable. Criticism of Diai is not at same level as criticism of Khalifa Rashidun. A diai achievement or status is insignificant to Ahlul-bayt or the companions.

Successor to the compiler Abubakr RA into kitab form of Quran your Dias so rigorously try to do hifz on its basis.

The Khalifa who took down Christian Byzantine and Zoroastrian Sasanid, Jerusalem.

If you don't like it try denouncing Umar's reputation publicly and watch how like Qadyani you get into real trouble.

There is no written literature ever or exists that says Ali ibn Abi Talib AS, Imam Hassan, Imam Hussein, Imam Sajjad Zainul Abidin ever criticised Umar RA to the extent Shias do today. Show me evidence. Not tawil BS and I promise I will revert back to Bohraism. So try being real Shias of Ali AS not Shias of some Qazis.

You will deny to accept Khalifa were not your enemy because it is so embarrassing to accept Imam Ali gave Umar RA, whether as love or political symbolic reasons his daughter. To have a physical relationship with Umar RA. You do know marriage leads to sharing intimacy that results in children. Shias are not that naive to not know what is marriage.

Would you in 21st century offer your daughter to marry and sleep with your rival family ? What did SKQ do he asked his daughters to separate from SMS sons out of their petty dispute of negligible significance to 2 billion Muslims. Get my point. Let FD explain how they would not reconcile a much superior institution of marriage that is a far more significant wajib and sunna than disputing a Diai position. Why is it so unShia to not have 2 Diais side by side. Which kitab states a diai of Islam is only Diai for a tribal culture. Don't you see what kind of iman you are stuck in.

Shia are so blinded by the books written 200 years after Saqifa events that they are now locked into a division theory filled with hate that never was. That hate has produced your current iman. Your Diais exploit that division to keep you ignorant and them rich. It is mind boggling hard to accept. Yet you will risk wrath on judgement day that you insisted to follow a dispute to end for your egos.

If people read intellectually about the 2 companions you will be so surprised that Ali ib Abi Talib AS the real Ali AS , not the myth character traditional Shia like Bohra have created in their theology, how much he respected and vice versa they cared about each other. They had political disputes without doubt but never crossed the line for their united love of Islam or Prophet SAW hard work.

But Shia as a result of political fitna centuries later started doctoring history. And geopolitical wars between emerging rivalries that created Sunni and Shia. Don't het me wrong Umar or the 3 Khalifa never ever called them Sunni . That term also came 200 years later by the use of terms to identify a group of theologians.

I challenge you ask your Dias, where did they kearn about Imam Ali AS , which book, when was it written they lead to the times so later and by authors in courts. The equivalent of Qazis , poets and opinionated scholars. You are literally so off track that you no longer follow Quran or logic but a mythology.
Shabab wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:41 am

Again stating. You are UMAR and Muawiyah lover ( lanat on them and their followers).Please do not poke your nose in shia affairs until you are a bohra or atleast a shia.

Do not derail our discussions.
I would like to answer this one point at a time:

The term Shia is used for a person who does not believe in the validity of the first three khalifas - if you believe in them to be 'rightful' leaders - someone who the prophet would have been happy leading the community ahead of Ali (AS) and that you deny the events of Ghadeer, you are not a reformist shia - you are a sunni...
This is my direct warning to the website. Robust debate is ok. But If it allows hate, vulgarv insult towards Prophet SAW companions or Ahlul-bayt you run risk of destructive wrath of 95% Muslims.
Really? your "direct warning" ? What good is that going to do? there are forums out there openly abusing the prophet, Allah, Islam - how many of those sites did goons like you or those you admire deal with?

Please get your facts right - Abu Bakr did NOT compile the Quran - It happened during Uthman's era.. please brush up on your knowledge - might help you avoid making a fool out of yourself.
If you don't like it try denouncing Umar's reputation publicly and watch how like Qadyani you get into real trouble.
Says the person who does not have the audacity to write under his real name...
You will deny to accept Khalifa were not your enemy because it is so embarrassing to accept Imam Ali gave Umar RA, whether as love or political symbolic reasons his daughter. To have a physical relationship with Umar RA. You do know marriage leads to sharing intimacy that results in children. Shias are not that naive to not know what is marriage.
Nope.. did not happen... and if you are so admant - bring proof of it please.

As per Ismaili Mustali Tyebbi Shia beliefs, The reason Ali (AS) did not openly stand against the three caliphs is because that is exactly what those three people wanted - for him to revolt against them and to weaken people's faith in Islam... he did not give them that satisfaction or the victory they were looking for.. he did what he was supposed to - was a silent leader to the people who chose not to ignore what the Prophet made them promise on Ghadeer..

I am not a mainstream bohra - I have very strong reservations about the current leadership.. may it be MS or TF - however I do have faith in the Fatimid Mustali Tyebbi chain and their belief system...

If you are truly interested in understanding the faith and the core belief system and the sharia according to this sect, please pick up a copy of Daim ul Islam ( you can find an english version by Poonawala on Amazon) and read it.. it was written during the Fatimid era and explains the tennants of Islam by sourcing the Quran and Hadith..
Whether one openly insults the first three caliphs or not really does not make a difference - if they were men of Allah, no amount of lanats from bohras will hurt them.. if they were of the devil, no amount of praises sung by you will help them... stop focusing on trivial and childish things like name calling and try to understand what the core differences in the sects are , look at their reasoning and then decide for yourself what is right ..

juzer esmail
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:24 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#759

Unread post by juzer esmail » Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:14 pm

Thank you kseeker for the rebuttal, otherwise I was wondering if this site was taken over by haters of Panjatan Pak A.S.!

Qadir
Posts: 249
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:28 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#760

Unread post by Qadir » Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:56 am

Bohra spring wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:46 pm Yes I respect Umar RA ,there are reformist Shia who have realised there is no sin to respect the Khalifas and revere Ahlul Bayt just as reformist Sunni who respect Ahlul Bayt and Khalifa Rashidun.

This is my direct warning to the website. Robust debate is ok. But If it allows hate, vulgarv insult towards Prophet SAW companions or Ahlul-bayt you run risk of destructive wrath of 95% Muslims. This site is searchable. Criticism of Diai is not at same level as criticism of Khalifa Rashidun. A diai achievement or status is insignificant to Ahlul-bayt or the companions.

Successor to the compiler Abubakr RA into kitab form of Quran your Dias so rigorously try to do hifz on its basis.

The Khalifa who took down Christian Byzantine and Zoroastrian Sasanid, Jerusalem.

If you don't like it try denouncing Umar's reputation publicly and watch how like Qadyani you get into real trouble.

There is no written literature ever or exists that says Ali ibn Abi Talib AS, Imam Hassan, Imam Hussein, Imam Sajjad Zainul Abidin ever criticised Umar RA to the extent Shias do today. Show me evidence. Not tawil BS and I promise I will revert back to Bohraism. So try being real Shias of Ali AS not Shias of some Qazis.

You will deny to accept Khalifa were not your enemy because it is so embarrassing to accept Imam Ali gave Umar RA, whether as love or political symbolic reasons his daughter. To have a physical relationship with Umar RA. You do know marriage leads to sharing intimacy that results in children. Shias are not that naive to not know what is marriage.

Would you in 21st century offer your daughter to marry and sleep with your rival family ? What did SKQ do he asked his daughters to separate from SMS sons out of their petty dispute of negligible significance to 2 billion Muslims. Get my point. Let FD explain how they would not reconcile a much superior institution of marriage that is a far more significant wajib and sunna than disputing a Diai position. Why is it so unShia to not have 2 Diais side by side. Which kitab states a diai of Islam is only Diai for a tribal culture. Don't you see what kind of iman you are stuck in.

Shia are so blinded by the books written 200 years after Saqifa events that they are now locked into a division theory filled with hate that never was. That hate has produced your current iman. Your Diais exploit that division to keep you ignorant and them rich. It is mind boggling hard to accept. Yet you will risk wrath on judgement day that you insisted to follow a dispute to end for your egos.

If people read intellectually about the 2 companions you will be so surprised that Ali ib Abi Talib AS the real Ali AS , not the myth character traditional Shia like Bohra have created in their theology, how much he respected and vice versa they cared about each other. They had political disputes without doubt but never crossed the line for their united love of Islam or Prophet SAW hard work.

But Shia as a result of political fitna centuries later started doctoring history. And geopolitical wars between emerging rivalries that created Sunni and Shia. Don't het me wrong Umar or the 3 Khalifa never ever called them Sunni . That term also came 200 years later by the use of terms to identify a group of theologians.

I challenge you ask your Dias, where did they kearn about Imam Ali AS , which book, when was it written they lead to the times so later and by authors in courts. The equivalent of Qazis , poets and opinionated scholars. You are literally so off track that you no longer follow Quran or logic but a mythology.
Shabab wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:41 am

Again stating. You are UMAR and Muawiyah lover ( lanat on them and their followers).Please do not poke your nose in shia affairs until you are a bohra or atleast a shia.

Do not derail our discussions.
Kids, this is what happens if you start listening to Zakir Naik!

Shabab
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:11 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#761

Unread post by Shabab » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:36 am

CONGRATULATIONS!!!


Few najis and napak Al Hammar successfully diverted the topic and saved taher ass that he cant even distinguished between a JIN and a human being soul. this is exactly how these people plant bewakoof people to divert topics online and offline.


what a waste of life you guys are.