Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

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AbdeYamani
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:08 am

Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#1

Unread post by AbdeYamani » Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:54 pm

My grandmother is a cousin of late Mazun Husain BS. Therefore we know many secrets of the Qasre Aali. They are worse than vultures. People know well that it was Muaviyya who established and introduced the department of poison from where high potency of the toxin was provided to administer to his enemies. Similarly, 47th Janab Abdulqadir Najmuddin Saheb followed the practice of Muaviyya, and this evil deed was inherited in 51st Janab Taher Saifuddin Saheb. He enjoyed the seat of Dai after giving poison to his full-brother Tayyeb Bhaisaheb Zainuddin, who was appointed Mansoos by 50th Janab Abdullah Badruddin Saheb. When Taher Saifuddin Saheb became King, he found many Ulama, who kept a strict vigilance on his financial policy contrary to the religion and criticized. Taher Saifuddin Saheb tactfully poisoned his critics, through paan, sharbat, fateha sweets, etc and didn’t even spare his wife and mother of 52nd Janab Muhammed Burhanuddin Saheb. It was Ishaq BS Jamaluddin who announced that Nikah of Janab Taher Saifuddin was impossible with the Bhanji of Husaina Aaisaheba, therefore Taher Saifuddin Saheb tactfully removed her (Husaina Aai).



In his Sabaq Halqas, Miansaheb Fidahusain Yemeni uttered many secrets, which ultimately disturbed YN & Brothers. He criticized Taher Saifuddin Saheb that he declared several Talaq against the Fiqh and suggested a renewal of Nikah after Halala. He offered his services voluntarily for Halala only to gorgeous women and enjoyed as long as he wished. It was his young day’s favorite hobby. Many Surti and Mumbai families know this fact but how could they share this horrible info that their Nanima or Daadima was purified by Halala on the bed of 51st Janab Taher Saifuddin Saheb. It may be new for readers but not for those who know secrets. The remaining women approached Shaikh Ibrahim Yemeni and company for the Halala act. Shaikh Sajjadhusain and his group, Mohammad BS Badruddin and his group, Yusha BS and others whenever discussed YN and his orders they didn’t say Yusuf Najmuddin, rather they said: “wo tabbakh na lunda no order che.” The reason was that Taher Saifuddin didn’t give due time to his wives, rather he enjoyed Halala honeymoon. A young neglected wife in the peak of her youth found some comfort zone to fulfill her natural desire. Aaisaheba was involved with Qurbanhusain Tabbakh (Bhatyara). There were many resemblances in faces and bodies of Yusuf BS and Qasim BS with Tabbakh, who also loved them and gifted toys. It was a common practice of the children of Taher Saifuddin Saheb that in travel if they saw any gorgeous women they tried to attract her through religious sentiments and approached her in seclusion for blessings.



Mazlum Marhum Aamilsaheb Miyasaheb Ghulamhusain was the brother in law of Maqtul Marhum Miyasaheb Sajjadhusain Sarangpurwala. Sheikh Ghulamhusain was a successful Aamil during the time of 51st Janab TS and Early Period of 52nd Janab MB, he was a pious and kind person, a scholar par excellence, and an expert at Islamic Occult-Science. When the four learned Ulema were persecuted by She-zada YN (LA) during the same period, She-zada Qasim Hakimuddin (LA) had arrived in Karachi for fun and feast in the garb of Saheb e Dawat. During Qasim’s stay, Sheikh Ghulamhusain committed a deadly mistake, once while having lunch with a bunch of his Kothari friends he revealed a dirty secret about Qasim Hakimuddin. Those who were presented at his lunch were Sheikh Amiruddin Kothari, Sheikh Sajjad Husain Shujauddin, Shaikh Ibrahim Bhanporawala, Sheikh Mohammadali Moyyadi, Sheikh Abdul Karim Nader, Sheikh Fidahusain, Mulla Mohammedhusain Nemachwala. Mullah Mohammed Husain Neemachwala was not very high up in echelon and used this opportunity to gain favor with Kothar at least for Hadiyyat. Qasim Hakimuddin like many other Baite Zaani and Kachra e Aali was a notorious sexual predator. Once a family approached Sheikh Ghulamhusain for Nikah and he said Raza is in the hands of She-zada and he will conduct the ceremony. Qasim Hakimuddin solemnized Nikah and his Diwan called Dulhan for Qadambosi of She-zada. Unfortunately, the evil eyes of Qasim fell on the young bride who was extremely beautiful. During those days, Bohra woman would never do hand kiss style salaam which is very common these days even to Aamils, but Qasim through his Diwans forced the Bride to do so, and instruct her that post Nikah before Zafaf she should come at the residence of She-zada so he will give her some special tabaruk. The poor Dulhan went along with her newly wed husband. However, when they reached there. Qasim had already instructed the security to not let the husband come in. Therefore the innocent bride went inside alone. After two hours when she came out, her clothes were without cress and she was profusely crying. Qasim BS Hakimuddin had brutally and sexually molested her. After this, the guy refused to accept as wife and divorced her. When some news leaked and before the issue got hot, Qasim and his touts in return started character assassination of the innocent victim lady. After hearing this secret from the mouth of sheikh, M. M Hussain Neemachwala informed Qasim BS regarding Sheikh Ghulamhusain’s revelations. Qasim did not take any action immediately. He waited for a couple of days and then one afternoon in Jamea there was a majlis followed by Ziyafat. Shk Ghulamhusain use to stay opposite to the Jamea Saifya. All of sudden after Majlis rapist Qasim BS, announced Sheikh Ghulamhusain as Inqetai and munafiq and declared that he was Kachrapeti (stinky garbage) that should be thrown out of mumineen’s mohalla. Thus all the fanatics and opportunist mullahs immediately left majlis and attacked Sheikh Ghulamhusain’s House. They did all kinds of Zulm on Miyasaheb and his family, which I cannot dare to write. Thus, just like that, like many other innocent Mumins, Sheikh Ghulamhusain was also tortured and destined to a life of misery and Zulm by the Evil Baite Zaani aka Kachra e Aali just to hide their own misdeeds and scandals.

Dawoodi Bohras should learn a lesson from these horrible facts. For God sake never never ever trust these She-zadas, Bhaisahebs, and Kotharis, Baite Zaani & Kachra e Aalis and allow meeting with their wives and daughters.



Shaikh Fidahusain Yemeni was well aware of such kinds of nasty facts. Which he revealed in his final phase of life, thus he was peacefully killed by poison, injected by Dr. Shaikh Tyyebbhoy under the instruction of YN. Shaikh Rajabali was also departed from this world through Rahmat water, because he supported Khuzaima Qutbuddin, as he was one of the witnesses of Nass of 51st Janab Taher Saifuddin on 53rd Janab KQ.



Dr. YN was like other intellectuals, ignored principles of Sharia and enjoyed private life lavishly. Russian Vodka was his favourite, which was served to him by his loyal Godhrawala servant who carried it always in a thermos, and on his signal presented him in a cup with words: “Saheb Dawa Nu Time Thaee Gayu”. Renowned Dr. Z. Ansari was also his partner in his private meetings, where both enjoyed. He was P.R. of the Dawat and stayed adjacent to Saifee Mahal. YN visited the Ambassador hotel to remove his tension, and some Hurries got Sharaf of his Qadambusi and relaxed him. His sons, grandsons inherited their bawaji/grandpa’s habits and today they are enjoying with Bohra ladies, who have less value of chastity. Bohra women consider them “holy”.

List of the crimes of Yusuf Najmuddin is long, however following are his achievements:

1. Yusuf Najmuddin degraded the value of the Quran and Islam in the Bohra community only to make the position of the Dai most strongest, so they can dictate over community.

2. He devalued the Ulama and declared Ban on reading Books, other than Jamea syllabus.

3. He introduced category systems, She-zadas, their children, Qasre Aali, Bait e Zaini, Kuthar Mubarak, Ummaal Kiraam, Muallimeen, Mustafideen Jamea, Khidmat Guzars, etc

4. Charged money for every activity in community, the list of Najwa is very long and published several times

5. This Pharaoh granted enormous power to his own family

6. Forced transferred properties of philontropists and charitable institutions of community to his own name

7. Cheated his step-brother, Mazun KQ and turned him

8. He was a master orator like other cheators

List is tooo long of his blunder and wrongdoings.

Dr. Yusuf Najmuddin was a seasoned criminal, who himself murdered his two stepbrothers, one sister, some senior members of the Baite Zany, former principal of Surat Jamea and eventually himself got killed mercilessly when a deal went wrong with the Land Mafia of Egypt. Following are some of the references from Newspapers and periodicals confirming his suspicious death:

Daily newspaper Al-Shaabi, reported on 04-22-1987 as under:
“Deal resulting in Death
On ill-faith 20th morning at around 6 a crushed body was spotted by a Sudanian Arab visitor, lying in front of Hotel Conrad. It was hurriedly collected by Hotel management and handed over.
Brother of Daudi head was here in Cairo since 13th Feb visiting and throwing parties to several government officials. Unconfirmed reports point to some Land-deal. He also had an audience with the President.
No official comments so far.”

Al-Heddaf Daily
"The Prince’s death concealed
The dead body found on 20th April in front of a luxurious hotel said to be that of Naib Sultan Yusuf Najmuddin from India. It was in “broken” condition, unable to fly to his native country. Hence buried here. The Prince was seen having some meeting last night with some land-dealers in the 4th floor room. It is suspected that he fell down from there. The investigations by police are going on.
The Prince's brother Sultan Mohammad is in London.



News in brief had also appeared in Akhbarul-Hawadis and Weekly Jaridatul-Fajar.

But News-Magazine Rosal-Yusuf wrote a detailed article describing the “strange practices of tiny sect of Shiite”, the story of harassment of the followers quoting from the report of Nathwani commission, damage done to the Egypt heritage by the desirous person of Fatimid glory and finally questioning the secrecy about the death and a complete silence on the part of the government. And why was the body buried outside the general cemetery?

His secretary, Shaikh Hayderali indorwala weepingly said after YN’s death:

“Zalimo Ye Apna Jisam Na Tukra Kari Dida. Aap Shaheed che.”

A sweeper indicated his dead body which was found in garbage. Such was his tragic death, a divine punishment, no doubt.



The current ruling family of the 53rd Janab Mufaddal Saifuddin was trained under Y. N and inherited all his evils. Just a few years ago poisoned was injected to Shaikh Muhammed Shakir Burhanpuri, teacher of 53rd Janab MS, when he criticized the wrong policies of MS children. Shaikh Yahyabhoy Pardawala was also teacher of 53rd Janab MS and his mukasir QJ, who is known as “King maker”. He didn’t care of so -called Qasre Aali, and treated them just like Beggars, because of his power as head of the Qaza department. He often discussed half knowledge of She-zadas in humiliating style and uttered repeatedly that even Burhanuddin Saheb is dependent on him. The Mufaddali lobby (YN family) was deadly against him thus they beat him ruthlessly on the base of his nineteen pages long charge-sheet against she-zada MS which he had submitted personally to Burhanuddin Saheb. In the absence of Burhanuddin Saheb this charge-sheet file was stolen by MS. Shaikh Haiderali and Shaikh Muhammed Poonawala started an operation against Shaikh Yahya and took full revenge for their old enmity. Shaikh Yahya threatened Mufaddali lobby to disclose the secrets or else he warned that he had recorded his statement in three different places, and in case of his sudden death these secrets will be published and police will register murder case against MS, Badruljamali and Brothers. Thus Shaikh Yahya is still surviving. Recently Shaikh Mohammadhussain Poonawala and Shaikh Hayderali indorewala expired suspiciously. Indorewala was MS teacher, while Poonawala was teacher of his children, the future head of the community. Even these greedy families of MS did not spare the old Burhanuddin Saheb and offered him venom twice during his last five years.



My father once disclosed:

“Moula gave Rahmat water for Bu (grandma), who was severely ill so don’t drink from it and take care of it, otherwise the one who will sip it will die”.

I asked my father, is something mixed in the water?

In very low voice he replied

“zhar milu huwu chy”.

Perhaps it may be shocking for readers but not for me. Everyone knows in Saify and Badri Mahal that the son of Burhanuddin saheb, Huzaifa BS Mohiyuddin was killed by poison. All burden of his death is upon the shoulders of the one who is enjoying now his portfolio. He was a moderate person and always tried to accommodate people. He paid due respect to educated also, which was against the policy of Mufaddali lobby. Everyone was well aware in the Saify Mahal that Huzaifa BS had a close relation with K. Qutbuddin(one of the reasons why he was not mentioned as Nass-Witness) as compare to his other brothers, and one can say that only he was his supporter and behind his suspicious death perhaps this factor was involved Dr. Moiz injected venom and killed him. Soon Dr. Moiz will leave this world as a forged Nass witness and carrier of many secrets. Dr. Moiz BS and his notorious son, Abdulqadir BS, known corrupt and womanizer, have built their empire outside of India.



YN’s children, Queen Johrat and her children, daughter no 2 Maria’s children, BJ, Saeed, Kausar and Juzer and their puppies are tirelessly trying to present Yusuf Najmuddin as saint, therefore his speeches often air on various occasions. Kinana and Qusai, both sons of Maria, daughter of YN today have enormous power in today's Bohra community. Qusai took over the charge of the office of international finance, which was earlier in the hands of his father in law, Qaidjoher.
Greedy Kinana and arrogant Qusai represent two satanic figures of Saify Mahal, one is Y.N another is King David (Dawood BS), terror for each Bohra Zair and Hajis. Everyone sent upon him curse. Dawood did not care of 52nd Janab Burhanuddin when he visited Saudi Arab and said this is my jurisdiction and Burhanuddin have to follow his orders. Kinana is enjoying life like other tops of Saify Mahal.His father mudar is Aamil of Surat, proud of so called knowledge. Anyway, a seprate white paper is required to discuss the crimes of YN's children. This satanic family has submitted Egypt government a redevelopment plan of the mausoleum of the great companion of Ali, Malik ul Ashtar at marj, near Cairo. In the cover of redevelopment of the mausoleum they will include the grave of Yusuf Najmuddin inside the room. Current 53rd already declared his father in law as saint, so they will construct his Zaree and a Gulla would be placed there for Bohras to put Fakhir amount in it, which may help the family of MS in buying lucrative properties in Egypt. After all, YN spent around 40 years brainwashing the community and now it is the right of his children to enjoy it. His great contribution has written with gold that he made dawoodi bohras “mad”. Change the basic creeds and coined new creeds, one of which is “only moula moula Jaano si Aalaa”.

Dear Mumineen, be careful and don’t take food and drink offered to you as a Tabarruk by these devils as it may contain poison.

For Social Media
Legacy of Muawiyah Laeen in Saify Mahal.pdf
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Last edited by AbdeYamani on Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:03 am, edited 3 times in total.

Shabab
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:11 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#2

Unread post by Shabab » Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:18 am

I urge every true momeen. (munafiqun can stay out of bohra matters) on this forum who are member and those who are silent readers to post this thread to your respective amil whats app number and ask them if this is true.

by doing this they will know that momeenin are coming to know the truth slowly now .

AbdeYamani
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#3

Unread post by AbdeYamani » Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:37 am

Shabab wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:18 am I urge every true momeen. (munafiqun can stay out of bohra matters) on this forum who are member and those who are silent readers to post this thread to your respective amil whats app number and ask them if this is true.

by doing this they will know that momeenin are coming to know the truth slowly now .
Nobody would dare to do this..

They will immediately get called for visiting this site and asked to renew mithaq for reading this blasphemous material.

Our only hope is people being aware of what is what and not get manipulated anymore.

virtual
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:53 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#4

Unread post by virtual » Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:01 am

AbdeYamani wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:37 am
Shabab wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:18 am I urge every true momeen. (munafiqun can stay out of bohra matters) on this forum who are member and those who are silent readers to post this thread to your respective amil whats app number and ask them if this is true.

by doing this they will know that momeenin are coming to know the truth slowly now .
Nobody would dare to do this..

They will immediately get called for visiting this site and asked to renew mithaq for reading this blasphemous material.

Our only hope is people being aware of what is what and not get manipulated anymore.
i think we should send this to aamils anonymously by emails.

Shabab
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:11 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#5

Unread post by Shabab » Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:54 am

sending it to ITS emails

malgudidays
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:47 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#6

Unread post by malgudidays » Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:41 am

Shabab wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:54 am sending it to ITS emails
Careful...

virtual
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:53 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#7

Unread post by virtual » Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:51 am

malgudidays wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:41 am
Shabab wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:54 am sending it to ITS emails
Careful...
Don't worry send it by Proton mail its safe secure and fully encrypted.

bohraspy
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:17 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#8

Unread post by bohraspy » Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:15 am

AbdeYamani

Thank you for sharing this detailed information. I have also heard that SKQ was to receive nass but YN threatened to spill the beans, and YN stopped it.
I didn't know it was this deep.
Please share more!

Biradar
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#9

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:00 pm

AbdeYamani's grandma seems to have read too many Arabian Nights tales or perhaps Fifty Shades of Grey. This salacious gossip is the product of a fertile imagination, one which seems to concoct things from thin air. In any case, this is simply a case of projection. The so-called shaikhs who spread these rumors come off in a terrible light themselves. I mean, if all this was true, why wait generations to tell the truth and not shine to light then-and-there? Clearly, the mullahs involved in this themselves were okay as long as they got a cut of the pie, and some hanky-panky now-and-then. But when they were thrown out they suddenly turned against their former masters and now, generations later their bitter descendants, are spreading these ridiculous sexual rumors.

I have said this before also: these rebel mullahs were happy to eat from the plate provided by the da'i and kept silent for decades. Even when kicked out, they wanted to come back to the fold to enjoy again their former lifestyle. No one comes off from this as someone who is a genuinely virtuous character. Clearly, the Iblisi Mafia are power-hungry maniacs, but these mullahs who worked for them were no better either.

BTW: Why does AbdeYamani say his "grandmother is a cousin of late Mazun Husain BS"? I mean, SMB was full-brother to Mr. Hussain. So would not that make this grandma a cousin of SMB? Why not say that?

AbdeYamani
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#10

Unread post by AbdeYamani » Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:37 pm

bohraspy wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:15 am AbdeYamani

Thank you for sharing this detailed information. I have also heard that SKQ was to receive nass but YN threatened to spill the beans, and YN stopped it.
I didn't know it was this deep.
Please share more!
STS had clearly directed SMB to nominate KQ as next in line, KQ was groomed for the position.
Everybody in the Qasr e Aali, Many top most Mashaikhs and Ustaads were privy to this information.

Hence, terminology specifically indicating that of a Dai to be were used for KQ in his Early decades of Mazoonship.
Also, he was specially addressed in Risalat of STS.

It is said that KQ mother was a beautiful and highly cultured and from a rich family and quite younger to STS.

When STS proposed her for marriage she agreed on few conditions one of which was that STS would nominate one of her off-springs as 53rd. To which he agreed.

of all the sons STS had from her KQ was most charismatic and capable.

YN also had cordial relations with KQ and was infact teacher of KQ, but problem with KQ was arrogance signs of which can be clearly seen in his children... and at times he tried to outsmart YN which was his biggest mistake.

In his early days KQ was in rather powerful position. nor was he a mazoon but was also given lucrative jamiat of Udaipur as part of his fiefdom. He had 3 full brothers 2 half brothers(sons of Wazira Aai) Mukasir Saleh bs and Financial Manager and brother of STS Ibrahim Bs full support, also Saifee Mahal and many other properties were under his name. Dawat Lawyers Haidermotas were his maternal cousins..

So YN did not attack him straight away... YN went for a long con. He was head of Jamea so he used that position to his advantage to completely rewrite the creed(belief system) of Dawoodi Bohra... were he utterly degraded and destroyed the significance of position of Mazoon and Mukasir and those pupil trained under him spread the same message across the world.. he was also head of amalat department so all the amils also sang to his music.

Many people are not aware of this but even the revolt and following fitna that happened in Udaipur had hands of YNs politics in it. which destroyed the most lucrative and influential Jamiat under Khuzaima's control for long period of time.

After the death of Mukasir Saleb bs, Ras al Hudud Ibrahim bs KQ lost key supporters and after the death of sons of Wazira Aais sons KQ lost those who hated YN more than he did and were his natural alies...

what was left after that were his real brother Hatim, Abbas and Mohammed Baqir.. Mohammed Baqir was an addict wholived most of his life in Paris and his only son was married to daughter of Shehzada Qaid Johar and Abbas Bs and Hatim Bs were no match to YN, Qasim and Ali Asgher. and both of them through marriages and money were eventually bought out. Most of the Mashaikhs and Ustaads except for Sheik Yahya Pardawala were either bought out or silenced. Things were so bad between Hatim Bs and KQ that in his last years they were not even on talking terms.

By the time all this happened SMBs sons had grown up and ready, and YN was the most powerful person in the Dawat politically and financially and handled press and public relation very efficiently. Also his four sons were now grown up and ready and by the marriage of SMS to Daughter of YN were very close to him. These four sons like father were and are equally vile and ruthless.

thus by the time episode of East Africa happened KQ was already in a very weak position and that's when by the help of hebatullah who was doing his own politics had vested interest against another powerful and wealthy family of africa Ganijees gave the final blow to KQ aspirations of ever becoming a Dai.

All of this, along with various rumours of KQ womanizing were successfully spread and then we all know about Zahir Batin website and what they use to teach in Sabaq About him..

At the same time positive propoganda about SMS started and him getting Laqab of Aqeequl Yaman along with full machinery of YN at his disposal put him in spotlight.

It is said that KQ and his children have some signed documents of STS and SMB that confirms their claim but they have not put it as evidence yet, and sms side is aware of this hence, if you will follow the case closly you will find out that they are no more fighting the claim that Nass was not done of KQ rather that Nass was changed and can be changed.
and both sides are fighting most aggressively on this point. KQ side claiming Nass is by Ilham from Imam (as) and can never be changed and SMS side claiming that yes it can be changed to prove their point they have gone to extent of saying that Nass was changed from Imam Ismail(as) to Musa Kazim.. Both of them cannot openly tell what the truth is because it would expose a lot of claims and exaggeration they make in regards to office of Dai al Mutlaq.

Truth is Nass of Dai is not similar to and does not have same level of Ismat(protection) as Nass of mustaqar Imam on another Mustaqar Imam(as), and can very well be changed. But one side is denying this and other side is trying to prove this but instead of accepting inferiority of Ismat they are making false claims on Institute of Imamat itself. Both of them are lying by equating the Nass of Imam(as) to that of Dai al Mutlaq. Nass of Mustaqar Imam(as) on successor Imam(as) is and can never be changed It goes in a straight line...

SMS is not academically that qualified an army of scholars headed by Shz Jafar al Sadiq prepare Waaz material for him.
His extempore addressing which people love about SMS became a matter of headache for SMS camp when he asked everyone to come to masjid on eve of Ghadir e Khum in the early days of corona pandemic hence, you must have noticed that in last global waaz on Shahadat of Imam Hasan (as) whenever he went off the script they mute his broadcast. SMS side also clearly denied that SMS would ever come to court of law for any hearing or take the stand, because his sons and lawyers know very well that the truth about his lack of knowlefge will come into light. Soon Nass wil be conferred on his son Shz Husain Bs, who is very well groomed and far better person character wise as compared to Taher. and he and his brother's will definitely face Taher's lawyers competently.

Personally I have heard good things about Husain Bs and hope he will bring lot of good changes in the community.

In short... This Dawat is no doubt Dawat al Haq and is mansub towards Bani Fatema(sa).. so we should stick around rather than becoming wahabis, athiests or Ithna Asheris.. but things have gone wrong in the past 200 years... and to counter the false and exaggerated narrative that has been developed around the institute of Dai by claiming most of attributes and powers specific to Imam(as) for Dai al Mutlaq in Dawr Satr and turning people into brainwashed fanatics. big injustice has been done...and I know that disclosing these facts do not make any difference to any fanatics.. but Kothar and ruling family should know that there are still people out there who know the truth and will keep exposing you to try to keep your ego and actions in check by whatever little they can do... such as write this article to put lot of things on record.

AbdeYamani
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#11

Unread post by AbdeYamani » Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:05 pm

Biradar wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:00 pm AbdeYamani's grandma seems to have read too many Arabian Nights tales or perhaps Fifty Shades of Grey. This salacious gossip is the product of a fertile imagination, one which seems to concoct things from thin air. In any case, this is simply a case of projection. The so-called shaikhs who spread these rumors come off in a terrible light themselves. I mean, if all this was true, why wait generations to tell the truth and not shine to light then-and-there? Clearly, the mullahs involved in this themselves were okay as long as they got a cut of the pie, and some hanky-panky now-and-then. But when they were thrown out they suddenly turned against their former masters and now, generations later their bitter descendants, are spreading these ridiculous sexual rumors.

I have said this before also: these rebel mullahs were happy to eat from the plate provided by the da'i and kept silent for decades. Even when kicked out, they wanted to come back to the fold to enjoy again their former lifestyle. No one comes off from this as someone who is a genuinely virtuous character. Clearly, the Iblisi Mafia are power-hungry maniacs, but these mullahs who worked for them were no better either.

BTW: Why does AbdeYamani say his "grandmother is a cousin of late Mazun Husain BS"? I mean, SMB was full-brother to Mr. Hussain. So would not that make this grandma a cousin of SMB? Why not say that?



AbdeYamani's grandma seems to have read too many Arabian Nights tales or perhaps Fifty Shades of Grey.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

This salacious gossip is the product of a fertile imagination, one which seems to concoct things from thin air. In any case, this is simply a case of projection. The so-called shaikhs who spread these rumors come off in a terrible light themselves.

Right, ever heard of Ismail Bs luqmani, Faizullah Hamdani, Adam bs Ziauddin, Mohammed bs Badruddin, Ibrahim Safiuddin Imadi and Mamaji Saheb Ahmed Ali Hameduddin? I hope you know who these people were?


I mean, if all this was true, why wait generations to tell the truth and not shine to light then-and-there?

If you would have read this literature as you claim to do, you would know very well that All the mashaikhs and many hududs have written lot of stuff under various pen names and some of them openly during the era of 47 to 51 and even during the time of 52 lot of things were written in various periodicals like bulletin, Jurrat, Gulzaar e Dawoodi and Gulzaar e Hakimi etc etc..

Clearly, the mullahs involved in this themselves were okay as long as they got a cut of the pie, and some hanky-panky now-and-then.But when they were thrown out they suddenly turned against their former masters and now, generations later their bitter descendants, are spreading these ridiculous sexual rumors.

What you are saying might be true, well either way truth came out and we should be happy about it.
BTW I hope you are not talking about four Mazlum Ustaads and many other who were brutally silenced by YN and his goons
.


I have said this before also: these rebel mullahs were happy to eat from the plate provided by the da'i and kept silent for decades. Even when kicked out, they wanted to come back to the fold to enjoy again their former lifestyle. No one comes off from this as someone who is a genuinely virtuous character. Clearly, the Iblisi Mafia are power-hungry maniacs, but these mullahs who worked for them were no better either.

You can start another thread to discuss vile Mullahs, this one is about current ruling family which is considered as holy and divine by lakhs of innocent Bohras...

BTW: Why does AbdeYamani say his "grandmother is a cousin of late Mazun Husain BS"? I mean, SMB was full-brother to Mr. Hussain. So would not that make this grandma a cousin of SMB? Why not say that?

You have a point, anything else?

Biradar
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#12

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:40 pm

AbdeYamani wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:37 pm
Truth is Nass of Dai is not similar to and does not have same level of Ismat(protection) as Nass of mustaqar Imam on another Mustaqar Imam(as), and can very well be changed. But one side is denying this and other side is trying to prove this but instead of accepting inferiority of Ismat they are making false claims on Institute of Imamat itself. Both of them are lying by equating the Nass of Imam(as) to that of Dai al Mutlaq. Nass of Mustaqar Imam(as) on successor Imam(as) is and can never be changed It goes in a straight line...
You say "Truth is Nass of Dai is not similar to ..." etc. Please prove this statement. This is just your own opinion which you are passing off as "truth", just like you are passing off salacious gossip as "truth".

In fact, the reality is that in the absence of the Imam the da'i al-mutlaq occupies the same position as the Imam. In fact, all you need to do is read the nasihaat of Syedi Sadik Ali to know this (say if you do not trust the post-Syedna Muhammad Badruddin texts). The first time when the imams when into seclusion (i.e the three Imams starting from Imam Abdu'l-lah bin Muhammad) the seclusion was not total. For example, in many books, including Zahru'l ma'ani of S. Idris, the 19th da'i, it is said that the access to the imam was possible after attainment to very high-level, the level of itlaq. Also, the first period of concealment was short. This period of concealment has now lasted > 900 years, and is total. Hence, the appointment of the da'i al-mutlaq who, in the absence of the imam, essentially, for all practical purposes, is the imam himself. Hence, the nass can't be changed, as it is done with the ilham of Imam and hence is essentially infallible. In fact, you should read the history of the nass which was done by Syedna Abeali Saifuddin, when he was still only a mansoos and had not yet become dai'. This is from a lecture of Ahmed Ali Raj himself, which you hear on the thebohras website yourself.

In any case, as I have extensively argued here, ad-nauseam, that STS did nass on SKQ and instructed SMB to do the same as soon as he passed away. Which, SMB did immediately before the first misaaq in his rein was taken. Hence, the silence of SMB on any other explicit nass as he has already done it in the start of the rein. Now, I agree with you that the Yazidi character of YN (LA) was the root of the fitna which was watered by jealousy and whose fruit is the Iblisi character of Muffy (LA). Any appointments made by him, even if it is a 'nice' guy like Mr. Hussain are irrelevant as they spring from the same Tree of Jealousy. So they are not valid. The dawaat they lead is not one of haqq, in fact, is one of Iblis and his minions.

Now, I have criticized STF and his brothers too, though they are pretty much better by any measure compared to Muffy and his brothers. Muffy, as you say, is intellectually weak. In fact, he has shown himself to be a moron. His ranting and raving about women, FGM etc etc is enough to prove that his is a fanatical fool, who should not be followed in any circumstances.

The reality is that Islam is not the property of these people. You can obtain access to the Divine Presence without the need of any of these people. Islam is a vast religion, with many branches, many of them equally valid. Staying in this Iblisi toli will certainly, though, lead you to hell.

BTW: You say Shz Muhammad al-Baqir BS was an addict. Addict of what? Again, you are expert in spreading salacious lies and slander. I have taken sabak from Muhammad al-Baqir BS directly and for significant amount of time. He was a great scholar, deeply immersed in the dawaat literature and a great teacher. I have never found him anything but composed and well-mannered. He was bit short-tempered and did not like people coming late to his sabak, for example, but otherwise I did not find anything particularly egregious about him. I suggest you stop all these slander and gossip. Stick to historical analysis or you are simply proving yourself to be someone who is bitter and ready to say any ridiculous things to show the others in a bad light. In fact, it only shows your own character flaws and weakness.

Biradar
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#13

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:54 pm

BTW: I should add something which I have said before also. Initially, when Imam al-Tayyeb went into seclusion the early da'is may have thought that the imam, or his descendant, will reappear relatively soon. Hence, the early da'is may not have claimed the absolute position for themselves. However, when the period of seclusion extended for centuries, then the da'i mutlaq's position become stronger and there was a shift in the belief towards the da'i himself as "sitting on the seat of the Imam", i.e. for all practical purposes being the Imam himself. I believe this transition happened with S. Idris, the 19th da'i al-mutlaq. He himself was a very great scholar and consolidated the dawaat literature and likely solidified the absolute position of the da'i since his era onwards.

Also, another point, again I have made before. The fact the nass can't be changed is also discussed by the Alawi Bohras. In fact, their da'i who passed away recently had done nass on his grandson also. So, their current da'i Hatim Zakiyuddin is bound by his predecessor's will to appoint as he was instructed. No changes can be made, as Hatim Zakiyuddin said in a waaz. Now, this does not conclusively prove that nass can't be changed, but it adds credibility to that view, and also the view that one da'i can not only appoint his successor, but also his successor's successor. Of course, Sayedna Abdeli Saifuddin did the same when he did nass on the two brothers. I believe that STS did the same: he appointed SKQ to follow SMB, a will which SMB also stuck to (as he was duty bound to do).

Shabab
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:11 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#14

Unread post by Shabab » Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:57 am

Imposing all wrong on YN does not makes Burhanuddin correct, he clearly failed to do his duties. as far as Taher Saifuddin character is a concern even I have heard many things related to women from old people, he was a womanizer and many old people believed he had the wrong intentions on other women. also giving poison to all the opponent has remained a practice by Taher Saifuddin and this is not a hidden thing in his family.

AbdeYamani
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#15

Unread post by AbdeYamani » Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:53 am

Shabab wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:57 am Imposing all wrong on YN does not makes Burhanuddin correct, he clearly failed to do his duties. as far as Taher Saifuddin character is a concern even I have heard many things related to women from old people, he was a womanizer and many old people believed he had the wrong intentions on other women. also giving poison to all the opponent has remained a practice by Taher Saifuddin and this is not a hidden thing in his family.
Nobody is absolving SMB of anything, just stating the facts.
Infact one way of looking at all of this is that SMB outsmarted everyone. By letting KQ and YN fight with each other he directed all their negative energy towards each other which resulted in him being the richest Dai there ever was and seat of next dai remaining in his family.

Shabab
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:11 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#16

Unread post by Shabab » Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:59 am

richest dai ever LOL

even the sound of it makes me feel awkward LOL

BTW if you ever bring this up to any amil they will talk about Imam moiz and Imam Hakim and how they were kings and lived their life.


excuse from history is always ready with them.

AbdeYamani
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#17

Unread post by AbdeYamani » Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:14 am

Shabab wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:59 am richest dai ever LOL

even the sound of it makes me feel awkward LOL

BTW if you ever bring this up to any amil they will talk about Imam moiz and Imam Hakim and how they were kings and lived their life.


excuse from history is always ready with them.
Very true, but they forget to mention that Fatimid Imams were Amir of the state, and they were rich by their own means.
Not by the virtue of Ziyafats, Qadambosis, Qadams, and Wajebaats.

As I said, YN is responsible for all of this... He had hired trained professionals and scholars to cherry pick narratives that would suit their deeds and objectives... That's why you will hear same kind of bayaans almost everywhere.

our condition today is like Bani Israel, victims of Tehreef and Tabdeel.

Shabab
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:11 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#18

Unread post by Shabab » Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:33 am

True, and now the dawat is really under corporate companies the way they are sending emails and bringing new schemes on daily basis is really truely commercial.

Jamia undergraduates are working as a call center executives and they are doing marketing on MS behalf. I too get 2 to 5 phone calls every month since last 2 years.

AbdeYamani
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#19

Unread post by AbdeYamani » Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:34 pm

Biradar wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:40 pm
AbdeYamani wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:37 pm
Truth is Nass of Dai is not similar to and does not have same level of Ismat(protection) as Nass of mustaqar Imam on another Mustaqar Imam(as), and can very well be changed. But one side is denying this and other side is trying to prove this but instead of accepting inferiority of Ismat they are making false claims on Institute of Imamat itself. Both of them are lying by equating the Nass of Imam(as) to that of Dai al Mutlaq. Nass of Mustaqar Imam(as) on successor Imam(as) is and can never be changed It goes in a straight line...
You say "Truth is Nass of Dai is not similar to ..." etc. Please prove this statement. This is just your own opinion which you are passing off as "truth", just like you are passing off salacious gossip as "truth".

In fact, the reality is that in the absence of the Imam the da'i al-mutlaq occupies the same position as the Imam. In fact, all you need to do is read the nasihaat of Syedi Sadik Ali to know this (say if you do not trust the post-Syedna Muhammad Badruddin texts). The first time when the imams when into seclusion (i.e the three Imams starting from Imam Abdu'l-lah bin Muhammad) the seclusion was not total. For example, in many books, including Zahru'l ma'ani of S. Idris, the 19th da'i, it is said that the access to the imam was possible after attainment to very high-level, the level of itlaq. Also, the first period of concealment was short. This period of concealment has now lasted > 900 years, and is total. Hence, the appointment of the da'i al-mutlaq who, in the absence of the imam, essentially, for all practical purposes, is the imam himself. Hence, the nass can't be changed, as it is done with the ilham of Imam and hence is essentially infallible. In fact, you should read the history of the nass which was done by Syedna Abeali Saifuddin, when he was still only a mansoos and had not yet become dai'. This is from a lecture of Ahmed Ali Raj himself, which you hear on the thebohras website yourself.

In any case, as I have extensively argued here, ad-nauseam, that STS did nass on SKQ and instructed SMB to do the same as soon as he passed away. Which, SMB did immediately before the first misaaq in his rein was taken. Hence, the silence of SMB on any other explicit nass as he has already done it in the start of the rein. Now, I agree with you that the Yazidi character of YN (LA) was the root of the fitna which was watered by jealousy and whose fruit is the Iblisi character of Muffy (LA). Any appointments made by him, even if it is a 'nice' guy like Mr. Hussain are irrelevant as they spring from the same Tree of Jealousy. So they are not valid. The dawaat they lead is not one of haqq, in fact, is one of Iblis and his minions.

Now, I have criticized STF and his brothers too, though they are pretty much better by any measure compared to Muffy and his brothers. Muffy, as you say, is intellectually weak. In fact, he has shown himself to be a moron. His ranting and raving about women, FGM etc etc is enough to prove that his is a fanatical fool, who should not be followed in any circumstances.

The reality is that Islam is not the property of these people. You can obtain access to the Divine Presence without the need of any of these people. Islam is a vast religion, with many branches, many of them equally valid. Staying in this Iblisi toli will certainly, though, lead you to hell.

BTW: You say Shz Muhammad al-Baqir BS was an addict. Addict of what? Again, you are expert in spreading salacious lies and slander. I have taken sabak from Muhammad al-Baqir BS directly and for significant amount of time. He was a great scholar, deeply immersed in the dawaat literature and a great teacher. I have never found him anything but composed and well-mannered. He was bit short-tempered and did not like people coming late to his sabak, for example, but otherwise I did not find anything particularly egregious about him. I suggest you stop all these slander and gossip. Stick to historical analysis or you are simply proving yourself to be someone who is bitter and ready to say any ridiculous things to show the others in a bad light. In fact, it only shows your own character flaws and weakness.
My best guess about you is this, you are an STF promoter... a planted agent on this Forum... your angle is that you have adopted persona of someone who comes out as personal enemy of STS and its off-shoots.. but vehemently defend the creed developed by STS and its off-shoots... so the net result is when someone reads your posts... They think... look at this, even though this guy is staunch enemy of STS and Family but even he accepts and defends the creed and belief system... I must admit you are very well places and thought out Avatar on this Forum...


Your posts is nothing but aimed at deflecting and deviating the readers from the crux of expose and turn it into personal slugfest. Don't expect me to fall for this....


Now about you rejecting all of this just as salacious gossips and rumours by disgruntled Mashaikhs without any credible arguments is a lame attempt at discredit my expose.

I have read your posts where you have even denied the existence of Imam(as), I wonder what is it any of your business, even if I am gossiping about the current leader and his family and forefathers. Who are you to question my view about position of Dai al Mutlaq, when you do not even believe in Imam(as).


Anyways, unlike you, I will not waste too much time getting personal with you.

If you have any credible counter to any of my expose, let me know... I will be waiting.


and do you even read what you write? on one hand you claim that Dai al Mutlaq is same as Imam for all practical purpose and then very next moment you go ahead and slander the people holding the office.

Btw, Nass of Dai has changed can be changed and there are plenty of examples.... I will state few..

1. Nass of Syedna Idris Imaduddin, on his more than 500 hududs... during pandemic of Black Plague.
2. Nass of Syedna Ibrahim Vajihuddin on Syedna Hebatullah instead of Syedi Sheikh Adam Safiuddin as directed by his Naas.
3. Change of Nass by Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin on Syedi Sheikh Adam Safiuddin to his two students Syedna Mohammed Ezzuddin and Syedna Taiyeb Zainuddin.
4. Nass of Syedna Abdul Qadir Najmuddin from His son Husain Ezzuddin to Syedna Abdul Husain Husamuddin.

but there is not even one instance of Change of Nass in Imamat.... Even when Habil was killed by Kabil Nass went to his son Shees (as) not to any brother of Habil(as).... There is no comparision between Imam(as) and Dai al Mutlaq who is no 28 in Dawat Heirarchy.

and Ya about addiction of Mohammed Baqir, he use to be high on opium.... and really if you are truly who you project yourself to be on this forum.... then I must say what an awesome effect sabaqs of all these shehzadas had on you that you do not even believe in Imamat anymore...

and if you are talking about Alavi Jamaat to prove your point, then let me talk about Sulaimani Jamaat, do you know that the current Dai is bed ridden and he nominated Ali bin Hassen even though his Naas had directed him to do Nass on his Son after him.. hence, there has been first time in their history two claimants to the position of Dai al Mutlaq...

Biradar
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#20

Unread post by Biradar » Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:49 pm

AbdeYamani wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:34 pm
My best guess about you is this, you are an STF promoter... a planted agent on this Forum... your angle is that you have adopted persona of someone who comes out as personal enemy of STS and its off-shoots.. but vehemently defend the creed developed by STS and its off-shoots... so the net result is when someone reads your posts... They think... look at this, even though this guy is staunch enemy of STS and Family but even he accepts and defends the creed and belief system... I must admit you are very well places and thought out Avatar on this Forum...
Lol. Thinking that I am "planted agent" is sadly as part of your character of spreading salacious gossip and foolish rumors, which completely detract from your larger analysis of the situation. And, I am not personal enemy of STS or SMB. I am not a blind follower either. You realize that those are not the only positions one can take, correct? I think STS and SMB were great da'is in many way, but both, perhaps SMB more so, thought too highly of themselves and built a cult around themselves. Maybe SMB was not to blame and his kids and brothers were, but the end result is the same: they turned into megalomanicas, specially SMB towards the end of his life.

You clearly are stung by the criticism of your dharam gurus, that is, the so-called ulama who were kicked out of the jaamia. These people were happy to eat and enjoy life even though, as you yourself admit that they all along "knew" that the nass had been discontinued. These people begged to come back to the fold so they could enjoy life again. Yet, at the same time they spread insane and salacious rumors. What you don't realize is that when someone reads your rumors he/she is immediately turned off an no longer can take anything you say seriously. Even the Progressives thought of these so-called ulamas as jokers, just another side of the same narrow-minded and fanatical mullahs created in the jaamia by YN and his henchmen. Just that these so-called ulama had lost their former positions, positions which they desperately wanted to maintain despite their so-called "knowledge" that the nass had been discontinued.

So let us ask the question: who was being a hypocrite? Clearly, these so-called ulama who enjoyed nice lifestyle while all the while hating the da'i they gained their rozi-roti from. Right from the beginning these so-called ulama were just after power themselves.

For example, let us see what gems of superstition we can learn from the "My Experiences and Will" by Mr. Ismail Luqmani. His document is full of the same sexual innuendos which you so expertly spread here. Not only that he claims that his 12 year-old daughter was possessed by the spirit of Chamanai, the mother-in-law of Sayedna Najmuddin, and this spirit admitted to poisson being given to Sayedna Muhammad Badruddin. Really? Lol. So now, this foolish man Mr. Luqmani is claiming not only spirit possession and also wants us to believe confessions made by such a spirit! These are the so-called ulama you follow and who you think are credible!

Let us dig more into this document. So, the claim is the four so-called ulama decided that they need to nominate someone to be "nazim" and they choose Sayedna Najmuddin, who they clearly hated and though was some sort of sexual predator! I mean, come on. What is to be said of these so-called ulama who knowingly foisted on the community someone of such character (which I do not believe for a moment, as I have said before)? As I said, they do not come off as paragons of virtue themselves and clearly were only interested in power and position themselves.

Also, consider the stupidity of these so-called ulama. They, being in lower ranks could not "appoint" anyone to a rank higher themselves. This is a fundamental aspect of Ismaili-Tayeebi theology, in which one must submit to the higher haad unconditionally, and whose resurrection is in his being promoted to the next haad. Yet, these so-called ulama dared to appoint someone to the position of the dai'!

Now, consider the creation of the position of da'i al-mutlaq by M. Hurrat al-Maleka. She was a hujja of the imam and had attained a very high position in which she could understand the subtle indications of the imam, and when Imam Tayyeb went into seclusion, initiated the chain of du'at al-mutlaqeen. Clearly, the so-called ulama (and their chelas) had forgotten something so elementary and decided to take it upon themselves to appoint a da'i, be it be nazim da'i.

Further along in the document, Mr. Luqmani admits the so-called ulama were also weak, and succumbed to the machinations of the da'i and eventually the Hilf al-fada'il had to be dissolved. In fact, one of the four people who "appointed" Sayedna Najmuddin, i.e. Syedi Abdeali Imaduddin, eventually became his ally and even accepted the position of mukasir! So what does it tell us of these so-called ulama and their character? Of course, the reality is that this opposition is totally cooked up and was made much later during the reign of Sayedna Najmuddin and was simply so that the so-called ulama could gain control of the dawaat affairs and rule through a shura council which the da'i would have to accept. Clearly, that is fundamentally against the nature of Shi'a Islam in which the spiritual power is consolidated into a single person, i.e, in the case of the Bohras, their da'i al-mutlaq.

All Mr Luqmani can muster is his clear hatred for Sayedna Najmuddin and his (Mr Luqmani's) penchant (which you also display in oodles) to spread salacious sexual gossip and superstition. Nothing he or any of the so-called ulama or you say can be taken seriously.

All you do is spread ridiculous gossip which some uncritical and unthinking people here accept as they enjoy such salacious rumors.

Incidentally, I do not need to accept these salacious gossip to understand that the modern-day dawaat is full of money-hungry and power-hungry tyrants. Also, I think STF is a much better guy than his cousin Muffy. It is clearly the case, as anyone with half a brain can understand. Spreading all these rumors make you a laughing stock and no one with any sense should take you, or rumor mongers like yourself, seriously.

AbdeYamani
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#21

Unread post by AbdeYamani » Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:13 pm

Biradar wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:49 pm
AbdeYamani wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:34 pm
My best guess about you is this, you are an STF promoter... a planted agent on this Forum... your angle is that you have adopted persona of someone who comes out as personal enemy of STS and its off-shoots.. but vehemently defend the creed developed by STS and its off-shoots... so the net result is when someone reads your posts... They think... look at this, even though this guy is staunch enemy of STS and Family but even he accepts and defends the creed and belief system... I must admit you are very well places and thought out Avatar on this Forum...
Lol. Thinking that I am "planted agent" is sadly as part of your character of spreading salacious gossip and foolish rumors, which completely detract from your larger analysis of the situation. And, I am not personal enemy of STS or SMB. I am not a blind follower either. You realize that those are not the only positions one can take, correct? I think STS and SMB were great da'is in many way, but both, perhaps SMB more so, thought too highly of themselves and built a cult around themselves. Maybe SMB was not to blame and his kids and brothers were, but the end result is the same: they turned into megalomanicas, specially SMB towards the end of his life.

You clearly are stung by the criticism of your dharam gurus, that is, the so-called ulama who were kicked out of the jaamia. These people were happy to eat and enjoy life even though, as you yourself admit that they all along "knew" that the nass had been discontinued. These people begged to come back to the fold so they could enjoy life again. Yet, at the same time they spread insane and salacious rumors. What you don't realize is that when someone reads your rumors he/she is immediately turned off an no longer can take anything you say seriously. Even the Progressives thought of these so-called ulamas as jokers, just another side of the same narrow-minded and fanatical mullahs created in the jaamia by YN and his henchmen. Just that these so-called ulama had lost their former positions, positions which they desperately wanted to maintain despite their so-called "knowledge" that the nass had been discontinued.

So let us ask the question: who was being a hypocrite? Clearly, these so-called ulama who enjoyed nice lifestyle while all the while hating the da'i they gained their rozi-roti from. Right from the beginning these so-called ulama were just after power themselves.

For example, let us see what gems of superstition we can learn from the "My Experiences and Will" by Mr. Ismail Luqmani. His document is full of the same sexual innuendos which you so expertly spread here. Not only that he claims that his 12 year-old daughter was possessed by the spirit of Chamanai, the mother-in-law of Sayedna Najmuddin, and this spirit admitted to poisson being given to Sayedna Muhammad Badruddin. Really? Lol. So now, this foolish man Mr. Luqmani is claiming not only spirit possession and also wants us to believe confessions made by such a spirit! These are the so-called ulama you follow and who you think are credible!

Let us dig more into this document. So, the claim is the four so-called ulama decided that they need to nominate someone to be "nazim" and they choose Sayedna Najmuddin, who they clearly hated and though was some sort of sexual predator! I mean, come on. What is to be said of these so-called ulama who knowingly foisted on the community someone of such character (which I do not believe for a moment, as I have said before)? As I said, they do not come off as paragons of virtue themselves and clearly were only interested in power and position themselves.

Also, consider the stupidity of these so-called ulama. They, being in lower ranks could not "appoint" anyone to a rank higher themselves. This is a fundamental aspect of Ismaili-Tayeebi theology, in which one must submit to the higher haad unconditionally, and whose resurrection is in his being promoted to the next haad. Yet, these so-called ulama dared to appoint someone to the position of the dai'!

Now, consider the creation of the position of da'i al-mutlaq by M. Hurrat al-Maleka. She was a hujja of the imam and had attained a very high position in which she could understand the subtle indications of the imam, and when Imam Tayyeb went into seclusion, initiated the chain of du'at al-mutlaqeen. Clearly, the so-called ulama (and their chelas) had forgotten something so elementary and decided to take it upon themselves to appoint a da'i, be it be nazim da'i.

Further along in the document, Mr. Luqmani admits the so-called ulama were also weak, and succumbed to the machinations of the da'i and eventually the Hilf al-fada'il had to be dissolved. In fact, one of the four people who "appointed" Sayedna Najmuddin, i.e. Syedi Abdeali Imaduddin, eventually became his ally and even accepted the position of mukasir! So what does it tell us of these so-called ulama and their character? Of course, the reality is that this opposition is totally cooked up and was made much later during the reign of Sayedna Najmuddin and was simply so that the so-called ulama could gain control of the dawaat affairs and rule through a shura council which the da'i would have to accept. Clearly, that is fundamentally against the nature of Shi'a Islam in which the spiritual power is consolidated into a single person, i.e, in the case of the Bohras, their da'i al-mutlaq.

All Mr Luqmani can muster is his clear hatred for Sayedna Najmuddin and his (Mr Luqmani's) penchant (which you also display in oodles) to spread salacious sexual gossip and superstition. Nothing he or any of the so-called ulama or you say can be taken seriously.

All you do is spread ridiculous gossip which some uncritical and unthinking people here accept as they enjoy such salacious rumors.

Incidentally, I do not need to accept these salacious gossip to understand that the modern-day dawaat is full of money-hungry and power-hungry tyrants. Also, I think STF is a much better guy than his cousin Muffy. It is clearly the case, as anyone with half a brain can understand. Spreading all these rumors make you a laughing stock and no one with any sense should take you, or rumor mongers like yourself, seriously.
Lol. Thinking that I am "planted agent" is sadly as part of your character of spreading salacious gossip and foolish rumors, which completely detract from your larger analysis of the situation

You did exactly what I said is your modus operandi..

1. Justify and defend the doctrine.
2. Make Personal attacks against STS & Family
3. Close with underhand compliment to TF

end result is that when a fanatic reads what you write, they see even an enemy justifying the corrupt doctrine, where in Dai al Mutlaq is equal to Imam(as) in every sense. and when a liberal reads he gets inclined towards STF, coz when a hardcore critic like you says something good about him then there must be some truth to it.

Anyways, as usual you have tried your best to deflect and deviate people from the truth and you quite conveniently ignored my theological reference proving difference in Nass of Imam(as) and Dai al Mutlaq.

Your assumption that I am follower of 4 Mashaikhs or that they are my source of knowledge is false.
moreover blaming just these four is ignorance on your part.

As I mentioned earlier the primary source on all of this is not some disgruntled mashaikhs but very people from the family of 47th Dai. and I hope you know that Ismail Bs Luqmani was brother in law of 50th and 51st Dai.

incident of his daughter being possesed by arwah khabisa is just one instance, if you want to read logical theological, historical and academic arguments about inquita un nass then I suggest you read Sansani Khez Haqaiq, Inkeshafat and many other books, if you manage to get hold of any and see how from the risalat of 47th Dai himself and many top hududs it has been proved and big thing is never ever a refutation has been written against any of those books.


Things is 4 mashaikhs were just made an example out of, truth is that many people from Najmi Family themselves were source of all this and teachers of these so called disgruntled mashaikhs.. example being... Ibrahim Saify Imadi, Adam Ziauddin, Hebatullah Jamaluddin, Qayyum bs, Hatim bs, Fadl Qutbuddin, Mohammed Bs Badruddin etc etc... so stop abusing and slandering 4 mashaikhs who were completely dependent on Dawat administration for their livelihood all the time... you don't know what they and their families have been through at the hands of YN.

I know Taher Fakhruddin and his siblings personally and have witnessed firauniyat first hand.

SMS is many things but one things that he and his children are not is arrogant and mean...

Only reason for me writing all this is to expose people so that divinity and holy image that they have for the Qasr e Aali can be shattered and may be they will start seeing them as ordinary people,with all the same human flaws and not some supernatural being whose deedar is ibadat and qadambosi is shifa..

Shabab
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:11 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#22

Unread post by Shabab » Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:25 pm

Birader is a munafiq and most probably not even a believer of Islam most of his arguments are filled with hate for Imam and Islam and he thinks he is too intelligent for Islamic rituals like prayers and fasting. abdeyamani you should ignore biradar and his stupid posts.

Abde yamani I am posting you list of munafiq whom you should put on your ignore list. PUT THEM ON IGNORE AS I HAVE DONE

babdeen
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:07 pm

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#23

Unread post by babdeen » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:19 pm

A message from Syedna BAB Deen,
Run from evil Kothari to humanity

I was connected for 33 years to Kothari shaitans.
All I can say is these thugs are capable of everything mentioned above and more. Their crimes are way beyond use of Islam to make money.
Rape, incest, blackmail, and poisoning is common and is well known in the this very large family. Those who get close to them have to migrate from human to shaitan to survive.
This is a cult run by ultimate evil family. They have nothing to do with religion or Fatemid traditions. Bohras are being used to support the cult. Longer this cult dominates, the more difficult it will be for Bohras to return to humanity and Bohra way of life. My post uses humor and a parallel Dai claim to effect a migration away from evils of Saifuddin, Burhanuddin, and their children.

Syedna BAB Deen
Live long and Prosper as a human

kseeker
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#24

Unread post by kseeker » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:23 pm

Biradar wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:49 pm
AbdeYamani wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:34 pm
My best guess about you is this, you are an STF promoter... a planted agent on this Forum... your angle is that you have adopted persona of someone who comes out as personal enemy of STS and its off-shoots.. but vehemently defend the creed developed by STS and its off-shoots... so the net result is when someone reads your posts... They think... look at this, even though this guy is staunch enemy of STS and Family but even he accepts and defends the creed and belief system... I must admit you are very well places and thought out Avatar on this Forum...
Lol. Thinking that I am "planted agent" is sadly as part of your character of spreading salacious gossip and foolish rumors, which completely detract from your larger analysis of the situation. And, I am not personal enemy of STS or SMB. I am not a blind follower either. You realize that those are not the only positions one can take, correct? I think STS and SMB were great da'is in many way, but both, perhaps SMB more so, thought too highly of themselves and built a cult around themselves. Maybe SMB was not to blame and his kids and brothers were, but the end result is the same: they turned into megalomanicas, specially SMB towards the end of his life.

You clearly are stung by the criticism of your dharam gurus, that is, the so-called ulama who were kicked out of the jaamia. These people were happy to eat and enjoy life even though, as you yourself admit that they all along "knew" that the nass had been discontinued. These people begged to come back to the fold so they could enjoy life again. Yet, at the same time they spread insane and salacious rumors. What you don't realize is that when someone reads your rumors he/she is immediately turned off an no longer can take anything you say seriously. Even the Progressives thought of these so-called ulamas as jokers, just another side of the same narrow-minded and fanatical mullahs created in the jaamia by YN and his henchmen. Just that these so-called ulama had lost their former positions, positions which they desperately wanted to maintain despite their so-called "knowledge" that the nass had been discontinued.

So let us ask the question: who was being a hypocrite? Clearly, these so-called ulama who enjoyed nice lifestyle while all the while hating the da'i they gained their rozi-roti from. Right from the beginning these so-called ulama were just after power themselves.

For example, let us see what gems of superstition we can learn from the "My Experiences and Will" by Mr. Ismail Luqmani. His document is full of the same sexual innuendos which you so expertly spread here. Not only that he claims that his 12 year-old daughter was possessed by the spirit of Chamanai, the mother-in-law of Sayedna Najmuddin, and this spirit admitted to poisson being given to Sayedna Muhammad Badruddin. Really? Lol. So now, this foolish man Mr. Luqmani is claiming not only spirit possession and also wants us to believe confessions made by such a spirit! These are the so-called ulama you follow and who you think are credible!

Let us dig more into this document. So, the claim is the four so-called ulama decided that they need to nominate someone to be "nazim" and they choose Sayedna Najmuddin, who they clearly hated and though was some sort of sexual predator! I mean, come on. What is to be said of these so-called ulama who knowingly foisted on the community someone of such character (which I do not believe for a moment, as I have said before)? As I said, they do not come off as paragons of virtue themselves and clearly were only interested in power and position themselves.

Also, consider the stupidity of these so-called ulama. They, being in lower ranks could not "appoint" anyone to a rank higher themselves. This is a fundamental aspect of Ismaili-Tayeebi theology, in which one must submit to the higher haad unconditionally, and whose resurrection is in his being promoted to the next haad. Yet, these so-called ulama dared to appoint someone to the position of the dai'!

Now, consider the creation of the position of da'i al-mutlaq by M. Hurrat al-Maleka. She was a hujja of the imam and had attained a very high position in which she could understand the subtle indications of the imam, and when Imam Tayyeb went into seclusion, initiated the chain of du'at al-mutlaqeen. Clearly, the so-called ulama (and their chelas) had forgotten something so elementary and decided to take it upon themselves to appoint a da'i, be it be nazim da'i.

Further along in the document, Mr. Luqmani admits the so-called ulama were also weak, and succumbed to the machinations of the da'i and eventually the Hilf al-fada'il had to be dissolved. In fact, one of the four people who "appointed" Sayedna Najmuddin, i.e. Syedi Abdeali Imaduddin, eventually became his ally and even accepted the position of mukasir! So what does it tell us of these so-called ulama and their character? Of course, the reality is that this opposition is totally cooked up and was made much later during the reign of Sayedna Najmuddin and was simply so that the so-called ulama could gain control of the dawaat affairs and rule through a shura council which the da'i would have to accept. Clearly, that is fundamentally against the nature of Shi'a Islam in which the spiritual power is consolidated into a single person, i.e, in the case of the Bohras, their da'i al-mutlaq.

All Mr Luqmani can muster is his clear hatred for Sayedna Najmuddin and his (Mr Luqmani's) penchant (which you also display in oodles) to spread salacious sexual gossip and superstition. Nothing he or any of the so-called ulama or you say can be taken seriously.

All you do is spread ridiculous gossip which some uncritical and unthinking people here accept as they enjoy such salacious rumors.

Incidentally, I do not need to accept these salacious gossip to understand that the modern-day dawaat is full of money-hungry and power-hungry tyrants. Also, I think STF is a much better guy than his cousin Muffy. It is clearly the case, as anyone with half a brain can understand. Spreading all these rumors make you a laughing stock and no one with any sense should take you, or rumor mongers like yourself, seriously.
I would like to pick up on two points you made here...

1. the ulemahs who were removed from the Jamea by YN...
2. the other about the ulemahs who are claimed to be the ones who supported AQN to become the first Dai Nazim....

I will accept that the ulemahs were not happy about loosing all the respect and glamour they received at their time with the Jamia.. and also mainly because of the amount of value STS had put on them and the authority given to them.. just to be taken away by his kids.. but you implying that they were living a grand life while in the fold is a blatant lie.. they had a very meagre salary and lived in tiny one room apartments.. some of their kids would drive rickshaws for a living.. so please don't make it seem as if they were bring showered by fortunes which they now miss deeply.. all of the loot was reserved for TS, MB, KQ and YN family...the only diff between KQ children and YN/MB children are that they went to university.. which doesn't mean they are better human beings, it just means they are more modern with their looting system and feel entitled to this air of superiority...

I also think they were a bit more than just 'so called aalims' - MB used to take classes from Sheikh Hasan Ali (one of the 4 ulema who were removed) on certain books by the 5th Dai - Syenda Ali bin Mhd Al Walid.. Sheikh Sajjad Hussain did write munajaats for TS.. he was responsible for preparing the Jamia examinations until that position was given to YN for which he was not happy at all.. who would like to live in the time of the 3rd Caliph Uthman where nepotism was touching new heights and the Affan and Umaiyyah families were given positions they did not deserve..

Did the ulema make mistakes? absolutely! But saying they were not not Aalims and were mere hypocrites who enjoyed a lot of fame and fortune just shows that you are a mouth piece of the kothar and their brain dead bhaisahab rhetorics and shows your bias towards the people from whom you studied ....


Now as for the ulemas during the time of the 47th Dai are concerned..it is possible that what AbdeYamani said is true.. it is also possible that it is not.. let's ignore all the character assassinations done in the original post about all the people he has mentioned as petty gossip... and also let's assume that all the holes you pick in his version of the story are correct - it does not prove that the 47th Dai was not a Nazim.. Also, no where does it say that the position of the Dai is and will be there until an Imam comes out of seclusion.. Though I agree that a Dai has absolute authority in the absence of the Imam, it does not mean he is an Imam or the Wilaayat rules associated with an Imaam apply to a Dai.. no where does it say Dai after Dai until the day the Imaam comes back...

If the line of prophethood can end, then why can't that of the Dais? It is completely possible that the 47th Dai was not one of nass...
Now the question, how probable is it that he was not an actual Dai?

There are three major incidents and group of people who claimed that he is not..

First is the Hamdani family - a very prominent scholar family from Yemen who migrated to India have claimed that.. they were without doubt holders of one of the largest collection of Fatimid and other Islamic texts... TS made it his life's mission to get every book from them...

Secondly, The luqmanji family - a family linked to TS and MB by relation - someone who have a somewhat level of scholarly prominence but a much better link in the insides of the family.. given that the position of the Dais have remained in the same family amongst first cousins and sons for the past 200 years, this family would know a lot about what is going on inside...

Thirdly, the 4 Ulemas -- who were not as close to the scene as the Luqmanji family and not as knowledgeable as the Hamdani family but were in the Jamia - a place of heritage where knowledge is shared by books but also passed from one teacher to another...

The only people who got victimized amongst these three openly were the jamia ustaads.. there was no point going after the Hamdani family cause they are pretty much gone.. Luqmanji was never going to get touched cause that would mean throwing shit on MB's mother's family and that would hurt their glorious family image... the only convenient ones to go after were the Jamia ustaads cause they were from poor families with no major backing and the chances of rebuttals were very low... I heard that the previous moharram, even evenining majlis had bayaan segments of YN in which he would indirectly abuse the Shaikhs in all of them.. shows how well a mark they left on this evil Kothar...

So yes, you have three different, unlinked sources claiming the same thing - all at three different times.. it would be foolish and ignorant to dismiss it as lies.. and given the current state of affairs.. given how TS, MB, MS and KQ lived lavish lives comparative to that of Muawiya and Yazeed - it is going to be very hard to debunk it...


edit: don't get me wrong - I don't have much love for the Jamea Ustaads.. but I am seriously tired of the YN/MS/KQ bandwagon with the same old shenanigans trying to deal with the debate by character assassination.. ohh they were jealous, they were hypocrites, they really did not have much knowledge, they were laughed at, their arabic was really bad, they stopped ppl from Imam Hussain Matam - shows the amount of fear they have towards this group.. If they had actual evidence to prove them wrong - they would have long shown it and put their claims to dust.. alas that is not possible.. and their current lifestyles, bidats and very apparent greed for power and money makes the Jamea Ustaad's statments seem even more true...

AbdeYamani
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#25

Unread post by AbdeYamani » Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:13 am

kseeker wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:23 pm
Biradar wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:49 pm

Lol. Thinking that I am "planted agent" is sadly as part of your character of spreading salacious gossip and foolish rumors, which completely detract from your larger analysis of the situation. And, I am not personal enemy of STS or SMB. I am not a blind follower either. You realize that those are not the only positions one can take, correct? I think STS and SMB were great da'is in many way, but both, perhaps SMB more so, thought too highly of themselves and built a cult around themselves. Maybe SMB was not to blame and his kids and brothers were, but the end result is the same: they turned into megalomanicas, specially SMB towards the end of his life.

You clearly are stung by the criticism of your dharam gurus, that is, the so-called ulama who were kicked out of the jaamia. These people were happy to eat and enjoy life even though, as you yourself admit that they all along "knew" that the nass had been discontinued. These people begged to come back to the fold so they could enjoy life again. Yet, at the same time they spread insane and salacious rumors. What you don't realize is that when someone reads your rumors he/she is immediately turned off an no longer can take anything you say seriously. Even the Progressives thought of these so-called ulamas as jokers, just another side of the same narrow-minded and fanatical mullahs created in the jaamia by YN and his henchmen. Just that these so-called ulama had lost their former positions, positions which they desperately wanted to maintain despite their so-called "knowledge" that the nass had been discontinued.

So let us ask the question: who was being a hypocrite? Clearly, these so-called ulama who enjoyed nice lifestyle while all the while hating the da'i they gained their rozi-roti from. Right from the beginning these so-called ulama were just after power themselves.

For example, let us see what gems of superstition we can learn from the "My Experiences and Will" by Mr. Ismail Luqmani. His document is full of the same sexual innuendos which you so expertly spread here. Not only that he claims that his 12 year-old daughter was possessed by the spirit of Chamanai, the mother-in-law of Sayedna Najmuddin, and this spirit admitted to poisson being given to Sayedna Muhammad Badruddin. Really? Lol. So now, this foolish man Mr. Luqmani is claiming not only spirit possession and also wants us to believe confessions made by such a spirit! These are the so-called ulama you follow and who you think are credible!

Let us dig more into this document. So, the claim is the four so-called ulama decided that they need to nominate someone to be "nazim" and they choose Sayedna Najmuddin, who they clearly hated and though was some sort of sexual predator! I mean, come on. What is to be said of these so-called ulama who knowingly foisted on the community someone of such character (which I do not believe for a moment, as I have said before)? As I said, they do not come off as paragons of virtue themselves and clearly were only interested in power and position themselves.

Also, consider the stupidity of these so-called ulama. They, being in lower ranks could not "appoint" anyone to a rank higher themselves. This is a fundamental aspect of Ismaili-Tayeebi theology, in which one must submit to the higher haad unconditionally, and whose resurrection is in his being promoted to the next haad. Yet, these so-called ulama dared to appoint someone to the position of the dai'!

Now, consider the creation of the position of da'i al-mutlaq by M. Hurrat al-Maleka. She was a hujja of the imam and had attained a very high position in which she could understand the subtle indications of the imam, and when Imam Tayyeb went into seclusion, initiated the chain of du'at al-mutlaqeen. Clearly, the so-called ulama (and their chelas) had forgotten something so elementary and decided to take it upon themselves to appoint a da'i, be it be nazim da'i.

Further along in the document, Mr. Luqmani admits the so-called ulama were also weak, and succumbed to the machinations of the da'i and eventually the Hilf al-fada'il had to be dissolved. In fact, one of the four people who "appointed" Sayedna Najmuddin, i.e. Syedi Abdeali Imaduddin, eventually became his ally and even accepted the position of mukasir! So what does it tell us of these so-called ulama and their character? Of course, the reality is that this opposition is totally cooked up and was made much later during the reign of Sayedna Najmuddin and was simply so that the so-called ulama could gain control of the dawaat affairs and rule through a shura council which the da'i would have to accept. Clearly, that is fundamentally against the nature of Shi'a Islam in which the spiritual power is consolidated into a single person, i.e, in the case of the Bohras, their da'i al-mutlaq.

All Mr Luqmani can muster is his clear hatred for Sayedna Najmuddin and his (Mr Luqmani's) penchant (which you also display in oodles) to spread salacious sexual gossip and superstition. Nothing he or any of the so-called ulama or you say can be taken seriously.

All you do is spread ridiculous gossip which some uncritical and unthinking people here accept as they enjoy such salacious rumors.

Incidentally, I do not need to accept these salacious gossip to understand that the modern-day dawaat is full of money-hungry and power-hungry tyrants. Also, I think STF is a much better guy than his cousin Muffy. It is clearly the case, as anyone with half a brain can understand. Spreading all these rumors make you a laughing stock and no one with any sense should take you, or rumor mongers like yourself, seriously.
I would like to pick up on two points you made here...

1. the ulemahs who were removed from the Jamea by YN...
2. the other about the ulemahs who are claimed to be the ones who supported AQN to become the first Dai Nazim....

I will accept that the ulemahs were not happy about loosing all the respect and glamour they received at their time with the Jamia.. and also mainly because of the amount of value STS had put on them and the authority given to them.. just to be taken away by his kids.. but you implying that they were living a grand life while in the fold is a blatant lie.. they had a very meagre salary and lived in tiny one room apartments.. some of their kids would drive rickshaws for a living.. so please don't make it seem as if they were bring showered by fortunes which they now miss deeply.. all of the loot was reserved for TS, MB, KQ and YN family...the only diff between KQ children and YN/MB children are that they went to university.. which doesn't mean they are better human beings, it just means they are more modern with their looting system and feel entitled to this air of superiority...

I also think they were a bit more than just 'so called aalims' - MB used to take classes from Sheikh Hasan Ali (one of the 4 ulema who were removed) on certain books by the 5th Dai - Syenda Ali bin Mhd Al Walid.. Sheikh Sajjad Hussain did write munajaats for TS.. he was responsible for preparing the Jamia examinations until that position was given to YN for which he was not happy at all.. who would like to live in the time of the 3rd Caliph Uthman where nepotism was touching new heights and the Affan and Umaiyyah families were given positions they did not deserve..

Did the ulema make mistakes? absolutely! But saying they were not not Aalims and were mere hypocrites who enjoyed a lot of fame and fortune just shows that you are a mouth piece of the kothar and their brain dead bhaisahab rhetorics and shows your bias towards the people from whom you studied ....


Now as for the ulemas during the time of the 47th Dai are concerned..it is possible that what AbdeYamani said is true.. it is also possible that it is not.. let's ignore all the character assassinations done in the original post about all the people he has mentioned as petty gossip... and also let's assume that all the holes you pick in his version of the story are correct - it does not prove that the 47th Dai was not a Nazim.. Also, no where does it say that the position of the Dai is and will be there until an Imam comes out of seclusion.. Though I agree that a Dai has absolute authority in the absence of the Imam, it does not mean he is an Imam or the Wilaayat rules associated with an Imaam apply to a Dai.. no where does it say Dai after Dai until the day the Imaam comes back...

If the line of prophethood can end, then why can't that of the Dais? It is completely possible that the 47th Dai was not one of nass...
Now the question, how probable is it that he was not an actual Dai?

There are three major incidents and group of people who claimed that he is not..

First is the Hamdani family - a very prominent scholar family from Yemen who migrated to India have claimed that.. they were without doubt holders of one of the largest collection of Fatimid and other Islamic texts... TS made it his life's mission to get every book from them...

Secondly, The luqmanji family - a family linked to TS and MB by relation - someone who have a somewhat level of scholarly prominence but a much better link in the insides of the family.. given that the position of the Dais have remained in the same family amongst first cousins and sons for the past 200 years, this family would know a lot about what is going on inside...

Thirdly, the 4 Ulemas -- who were not as close to the scene as the Luqmanji family and not as knowledgeable as the Hamdani family but were in the Jamia - a place of heritage where knowledge is shared by books but also passed from one teacher to another...

The only people who got victimized amongst these three openly were the jamia ustaads.. there was no point going after the Hamdani family cause they are pretty much gone.. Luqmanji was never going to get touched cause that would mean throwing shit on MB's mother's family and that would hurt their glorious family image... the only convenient ones to go after were the Jamia ustaads cause they were from poor families with no major backing and the chances of rebuttals were very low... I heard that the previous moharram, even evenining majlis had bayaan segments of YN in which he would indirectly abuse the Shaikhs in all of them.. shows how well a mark they left on this evil Kothar...

So yes, you have three different, unlinked sources claiming the same thing - all at three different times.. it would be foolish and ignorant to dismiss it as lies.. and given the current state of affairs.. given how TS, MB, MS and KQ lived lavish lives comparative to that of Muawiya and Yazeed - it is going to be very hard to debunk it...


edit: don't get me wrong - I don't have much love for the Jamea Ustaads.. but I am seriously tired of the YN/MS/KQ bandwagon with the same old shenanigans trying to deal with the debate by character assassination.. ohh they were jealous, they were hypocrites, they really did not have much knowledge, they were laughed at, their arabic was really bad, they stopped ppl from Imam Hussain Matam - shows the amount of fear they have towards this group.. If they had actual evidence to prove them wrong - they would have long shown it and put their claims to dust.. alas that is not possible.. and their current lifestyles, bidats and very apparent greed for power and money makes the Jamea Ustaad's statments seem even more true...
Thank you Kseeker for your valuable inputs,
Just want to add that along with Hamdanis, Luqmanis, and ulemas other primary sources are miyasaheb Ahmed ali Hamiduddin(Mohta mamaji saheb in words of SMB)
Mohammed BS badruddin grandson of S AQ N and first cousin of STS, Abdullah Hakimuddin( Son of S AQ N)
Ibrahim Saify Safiuddin(Son in law of S AQ N) Adam safiuddin and Hebatullah Jamaluddin(Brothers of Sy 50)

AbdeYamani
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#26

Unread post by AbdeYamani » Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:19 am

Also, thanks for highlighting that there is no dawat text that says a Dai cannot passaway without nominating someone in his place, this is the basis of their claim.

A claim not supported by any credible evidence.

Shabab
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:11 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#27

Unread post by Shabab » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:13 am

I think there were multiple times when Dai has not appointed any sucessor but the hudood of that time managed to point someone pious to take the seat and continue the seat.

kseeker
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#28

Unread post by kseeker » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:09 pm

AbdeYamani wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:19 am Also, thanks for highlighting that there is no dawat text that says a Dai cannot passaway without nominating someone in his place, this is the basis of their claim.

A claim not supported by any credible evidence.
However, I would like to clear my point of view on this topic...
I don't believe for certain that the 47th Dai was a Nazim.. it is highly possible that he was appointed by nass.. my point is that given the amount of people who have come out against him - not commoners but people who have been in the fold, - one cannot rule out that possibility..
Personally, I also believe that Allah subhanahu will not leave the land barren from a haq-na-sahib.. maybe he is out there and I have not found or recognized him.. The "Daur-e-Fatarat" theory is possible where every imam (mustaqar, mustauda or their hudud) are concealed and man is left alone without a human guide - a daur just before the "Daur-e-Kashf" but I hope it is not true ...

However from 51 onwards, I believe they are nazims and not by nass...because I have witnessed things with my eyes.. and I refuse to follow on the footsteps of Abu Jahl...

Shabab
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:11 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#29

Unread post by Shabab » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:06 pm

can you tell us what things you have witnessed with your own eyes?

kseeker
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Legacy of Muawiyah in Saifee Mahal.

#30

Unread post by kseeker » Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:17 pm

Shabab wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:06 pm can you tell us what things you have witnessed with your own eyes?
My personal episodes and experiences are not vastly different from those numerous ones which have already been shared on this forum and they will not add any 'value' to the discussion - they will just be used as fuel for more gossip and backbiting. Also to be clear, I have not witnessed personally anything wrong or unbecoming from KQ.. but if I cannot accept his father and brother as a Dai, I cannot accept him as one either.