Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
TalibBhai
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:16 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3121

Unread post by TalibBhai » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:32 am

Hafiz is nothing without true understanding and amal.

allbird
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3122

Unread post by allbird » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:06 am

Then there is no perfect Hafiz according to you. Apart from our Nabi(s), Imam's and our past Duat's who can be Hafiz with understanding and amal. Both SMS and SKQ are hafiz but do their amal match up. Offering your left hand for Qadambosi by itself displays your arrogance and pompous attitude that's Yazeedi amal so SMS is out of picture.

SKQ don't know much about so can't contribute.

TalibBhai
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:16 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3123

Unread post by TalibBhai » Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:31 am

allbird wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:06 am Then there is no perfect Hafiz according to you. Apart from our Nabi(s), Imam's and our past Duat's who can be Hafiz with understanding and amal. Both SMS and SKQ are hafiz but do their amal match up. Offering your left hand for Qadambosi by itself displays your arrogance and pompous attitude that's Yazeedi amal so SMS is out of picture.

SKQ don't know much about so can't contribute.
promise for guaranteed Jannah is for those hafid only.

yfm
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3124

Unread post by yfm » Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:55 am

salam allbirdy, It has nothing to do with undies, and yet you could not resist but replying to me because you know what you are referring to as Quran matters, has nothing to do with the Holy Quran but your satanic nostalgia coming from flying with the Saitan.🤣👀

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 683
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3125

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:52 pm

Regarding this court case I have a question about the costs.

Can anyone shed light on what would be the rough expense for a court case like this one. 7 years, all the various court dates, the various lawyers fees, all the experts, translation costs, all the other costs.

What are we talking about? I have absolutely no idea and it would be good to have some approximate range, from those who are knowledgeable about it. Like 1 crore rupees? 5 crore rupees, 10 crores? Am I totally off? Just some range, I am trying to get my head around the number.

yfm
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi e Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3126

Unread post by yfm » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:45 pm

dal-chaval-palidu bhai, what will it do to you or to any one curious about the outcome of this case?

Crore (really CROWS on the roof top), being wasted at the expense of the community development and furtherance of those whom these Dais have left to pray to Allah for sustenance, yet their sustenance is being used to fight the battles of the Princess whose life style has not been effected, except their egos. When Gandhi fought for independence, yes many lives were lost and many Crore was spent, but it was to earn India's freedom. There is no question, that gave India a better life.

But Dais, will remain, there is no shift from Muffadal to Taher or vice versa. Neither will the loser forsake their claims to the DAI Status. And we will know not, who the right dais is?

Instead of pondering about the crore rupees, you can lament on the plight of the Bohra people, who perform matam with so much zeal, but show no understanding as to why Imam Hussein and those like them sacrificed their lives so that we could be people of honor and dignity.

This is what we have been reduced to. It is akin to the children fighting over the fathers inheritance and losing half of it in the process in litigation not knowing how hard the father may have worked hard to build that wealth.

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 683
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3127

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:30 pm

I am not questioning some of the things that you are saying.

However, I asked a simple question. And I would still very much like to know the answer (from somebody knowledgeable in that specific matter) to that question.

yfm
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3128

Unread post by yfm » Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:55 am

LOL da-chavel-palidu bhai. You make me laugh. If yours was a simple question, there are many on this forum who would have been honored to answer. However, the person you are looking for, (from somebody knowledgeable in that specific matter) does not have time to entertain us, because we are far beneath them.


Crater Lake
Posts: 359
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:46 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3130

Unread post by Crater Lake » Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:45 pm

There is light at the end of the tunnel. What the doctors put into their records was the opposite of what they were paid to “recollect”.....perhaps. Truth has a way of coming out.

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 683
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3131

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:47 pm

Crater Lake wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:45 pm
There is light at the end of the tunnel. What the doctors put into their records was the opposite of what they were paid to “recollect”.....perhaps. Truth has a way of coming out.
I would appreciate it if you can explain in a little more detail what you said above. Because this article, while useful and providing some partial information, is also confusing.

---------------------------------- Let me give you one example from that article which is not clear to me ------------------------------

Q: Is it correct that there is no noting in the records of June 2011 of the 52nd Dai being oriented?

Dr. Costello: I would have to check whether the word is used or not in those records, but my notes and recollections are that he was oriented on several occasions and at different times.

Q: (Shown medical records) Is this the GCS record at your hospital for the 52nd Dai in June 2011?

Dr. Costello: Yes, it seems so

Q: Would you now agree that the 52nd Dai was not orientated at any time during his stay at the Cromwell Hospital in June 2011?

Dr. Costello: It is important to understand the variability of the 52nd Dai’s condition from day to day and sometimes from hour to hour. I have listed in my affidavit given today the occasions when the 52nd Dai’s condition allowed him to communicate in a rational and intelligible way.

----------------------------------------------------- end of the quote from the article -----------------------------

The above underlined appear to be contradictory to me, at least on the face of it. If SMB was "NOT oriented AT ANT TIME during his stay", what is Dr. Costello trying to claim when he says things could vary from day to day and hour to hour? Are you trying to cast doubts on the GST record? Why was he not challenged on the same?

Crater Lake
Posts: 359
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:46 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3132

Unread post by Crater Lake » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:13 pm

Exactly. He was claiming verbally in his testimony that SMB was oriented while constantly recording in the charts that he was not.

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 683
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3133

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:28 am

Crater Lake wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:13 pm Exactly. He was claiming verbally in his testimony that SMB was oriented while constantly recording in the charts that he was not.
So the follow-on question is: Why did Mr. Desai explicitly NOT call him out on that?

Just look at this exchange:
-----------------
Q: Would you now agree that the 52nd Dai was not orientated at any time during his stay at the Cromwell Hospital in June 2011?

Dr. Costello: It is important to understand the variability of the 52nd Dai’s condition from day to day and sometimes from hour to hour. I have listed in my affidavit given today the occasions when the 52nd Dai’s condition allowed him to communicate in a rational and intelligible way.
------------------------------
If he was NOT oriented at any time during the stay, what does this answer mean: There is variability and things can change from hour to hour. So are you saying some particular hours he was able to communicate rationally and intelligently when he was in the hospital?

Then the records showing that " there is no noting in the records of June 2011 of the 52nd Dai being oriented" is wrong? It is one or the other? And the question is: Was he asked to fess up and clearly mention which one is true and which is not? The defense lawyer, or even a judge could ask this as a clarifying question? Was that asked and clearly answered?

Crater Lake
Posts: 359
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:46 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3134

Unread post by Crater Lake » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:06 am

dal-chaval-palidu wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:28 am
Crater Lake wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:13 pm Exactly. He was claiming verbally in his testimony that SMB was oriented while constantly recording in the charts that he was not.
So the follow-on question is: Why did Mr. Desai explicitly NOT call him out on that?

Just look at this exchange:
-----------------
Q: Would you now agree that the 52nd Dai was not orientated at any time during his stay at the Cromwell Hospital in June 2011?

Dr. Costello: It is important to understand the variability of the 52nd Dai’s condition from day to day and sometimes from hour to hour. I have listed in my affidavit given today the occasions when the 52nd Dai’s condition allowed him to communicate in a rational and intelligible way.
------------------------------
If he was NOT oriented at any time during the stay, what does this answer mean: There is variability and things can change from hour to hour. So are you saying some particular hours he was able to communicate rationally and intelligently when he was in the hospital?

Then the records showing that " there is no noting in the records of June 2011 of the 52nd Dai being oriented" is wrong? It is one or the other? And the question is: Was he asked to fess up and clearly mention which one is true and which is not? The defense lawyer, or even a judge could ask this as a clarifying question? Was that asked and clearly answered?
DCP this is not the entire transcript! It is quite clear to me that you should be the counsel for the plaintiff :roll:

objectiveobserver53
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3135

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:58 pm

dal-chaval-palidu wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:52 pm Regarding this court case I have a question about the costs.

Can anyone shed light on what would be the rough expense for a court case like this one. 7 years, all the various court dates, the various lawyers fees, all the experts, translation costs, all the other costs.

What are we talking about? I have absolutely no idea and it would be good to have some approximate range, from those who are knowledgeable about it. Like 1 crore rupees? 5 crore rupees, 10 crores? Am I totally off? Just some range, I am trying to get my head around the number.
Don’t know any numbers but I do know that Chagla is being paid a lot more than Desai and Chagla will walk away a lot richer - if Muffy pays his bills, that is......heh heh. I suspect Muffy and his organization is a little like our Trump....in terms of paying his bills.....

And we are not counting all the money paid to people to stay quiet and tell lies.....Did one of his honchos (his adopted son, no less :lol: ) not try to pay off Judge Patel’s nephew or some such sordid thing? I remember seeing a video. And who knows how much this Moiz stooge is being paid to come to court and perjure himself....

yfm
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3136

Unread post by yfm » Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:05 am

And yet we all believe that these Dais will take us to heaven! Is Allah's justice system run by Shaitans? Do we have nothing better to do than indulge in these sham?

Shame on these Dais and all those who are their followers.

It just makes me puke. Does any one feel the same, just by reading these editorials? :mrgreen: twisted: :lol: :D

objectiveobserver53
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3137

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:02 am

yfm wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:05 am And yet we all believe that these Dais will take us to heaven! Is Allah's justice system run by Shaitans? Do we have nothing better to do than indulge in these sham?

Shame on these Dais and all those who are their followers.

It just makes me puke. Does any one feel the same, just by reading these editorials? :mrgreen: twisted: :lol: :D
And yet you were willing to go and give misaq to Muffy to please your sister...YFM you are a joke.

yfm
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3138

Unread post by yfm » Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:39 pm

Am I the only one who is a joke, objectiveoberserver53? When people like you put things out of context just to make it appear palatable, then people like you are surely imposters when you phrase yourself as the objectiveobserver53. To put it bluntly, what stirred up the fire in your rear end? Is it because my sister in her objectiveobserver52 mindset, believes just like you to please STF, encourages me to give misaq to Muffy and not to Fakhruddin? Yet these were before the court editorials. When people like you, dressed in sheepskin, plague this forum, the focus shifts to being ephimeral and you objectiveobserver53 should be stoned by the followers of Muffy. :lol: :D. If I happen to give misak to Muffy, I would be the first one to stone you to get rid of you once and for all and I would pray that this would be the place I would sever my ties with you once and for ever. :twisted:

objectiveobserver53
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3139

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:02 pm

yfm wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:39 pm Am I the only one who is a joke, objectiveoberserver53? When people like you put things out of context just to make it appear palatable, then people like you are surely imposters when you phrase yourself as the objectiveobserver53. To put it bluntly, what stirred up the fire in your rear end? Is it because my sister in her objectiveobserver52 mindset, believes just like you to please STF, encourages me to give misaq to Muffy and not to Fakhruddin? Yet these were before the court editorials. When people like you, dressed in sheepskin, plague this forum, the focus shifts to being ephimeral and you objectiveobserver53 should be stoned by the followers of Muffy. :lol: :D. If I happen to give misak to Muffy, I would be the first one to stone you to get rid of you once and for all and I would pray that this would be the place I would sever my ties with you once and for ever. :twisted:
If you understand your own ramblings, I congratulate you.

Also, seriously? You want to stone me? Get a grip will ya 🙄

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 683
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3140

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:30 am

objectiveobserver53 wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:58 pm
dal-chaval-palidu wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:52 pm Regarding this court case I have a question about the costs.

Can anyone shed light on what would be the rough expense for a court case like this one. 7 years, all the various court dates, the various lawyers fees, all the experts, translation costs, all the other costs.

What are we talking about? I have absolutely no idea and it would be good to have some approximate range, from those who are knowledgeable about it. Like 1 crore rupees? 5 crore rupees, 10 crores? Am I totally off? Just some range, I am trying to get my head around the number.
Don’t know any numbers but I do know that Chagla is being paid a lot more than Desai and Chagla will walk away a lot richer - if Muffy pays his bills, that is......heh heh. I suspect Muffy and his organization is a little like our Trump....in terms of paying his bills.....

And we are not counting all the money paid to people to stay quiet and tell lies.....Did one of his honchos (his adopted son, no less :lol: ) not try to pay off Judge Patel’s nephew or some such sordid thing? I remember seeing a video. And who knows how much this Moiz stooge is being paid to come to court and perjure himself....
So if a witness says something that is blatantly incorrect under oath, what, if anything, is likely to happen in the court?

TalibBhai
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:16 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3141

Unread post by TalibBhai » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:22 am

since MS and his family have no business or way of income all the money which are paid to lawyers is community money...

normal Bohra is suffering in this pandemic and the leader is spending this money on lawyers.

the solution is to pay as little as possible to bohra leader.

mustafazr
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:09 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3142

Unread post by mustafazr » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:10 pm

They lose credibility.
dal-chaval-palidu wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:30 am So if a witness says something that is blatantly incorrect under oath, what, if anything, is likely to happen in the court?

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 683
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3143

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:08 am

mustafazr wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:10 pm They lose credibility.
dal-chaval-palidu wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:30 am So if a witness says something that is blatantly incorrect under oath, what, if anything, is likely to happen in the court?
So their testimony would carry less weight in the court case, I understand. No other consequence? Like going to jail for lying under oath? Also, converting the civil case into a "criminal" case as the witness lied, and hence now forcing other witnesses to come and testify?

I just don't know the legal intricacies and that is why I am asking.

mustafazr
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:09 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3144

Unread post by mustafazr » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:46 pm

That's correct, less to no weight. Justice Gautam Patel has said multiple times that at the time of final arguments, the cumulative sum of all evidence will be weighed accordingly.

The case is a civil suit against Shehzada Mufaddal Saifuddin, the witnesses are not under trial. Each witness' affidavit and oral testimony will be weighed for correctness and truthfulness in an aggregate view. Naturally, the court, when it comes to a verdict, will have to decide which side is saying the truth, but (1) that will be done during final arguments, not at this stage of evidence collection and (2) that does not mean (in most cases) that the opposing side can be held legally liable for "lying". There may be some exceptions to this rule but it's on a case-by-case basis (for example, a doctor's medical license may be under risk if the board finds they clearly stated something against medically-accepted standards, but even this is a decision by medical board depending on if they find the jurisdiction of the court and the testimony material, etc.)
dal-chaval-palidu wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:08 am
mustafazr wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:10 pm They lose credibility.

So their testimony would carry less weight in the court case, I understand. No other consequence? Like going to jail for lying under oath? Also, converting the civil case into a "criminal" case as the witness lied, and hence now forcing other witnesses to come and testify?

I just don't know the legal intricacies and that is why I am asking.

mustafazr
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:09 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3145

Unread post by mustafazr » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:51 pm

I should also add that courts and justices would be VERY WARY of any side taking action against a witness of the opposing side, since this sets an extremely bad precedent where future witnesses would be disincentived from coming to testify, which is not in favor of the overall goal of the court to uncover the truth.

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 683
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3146

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:40 pm

mustafazr wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:46 pm That's correct, less to no weight. Justice Gautam Patel has said multiple times that at the time of final arguments, the cumulative sum of all evidence will be weighed accordingly.

The case is a civil suit against Shehzada Mufaddal Saifuddin, the witnesses are not under trial. Each witness' affidavit and oral testimony will be weighed for correctness and truthfulness in an aggregate view. Naturally, the court, when it comes to a verdict, will have to decide which side is saying the truth, but (1) that will be done during final arguments, not at this stage of evidence collection and (2) that does not mean (in most cases) that the opposing side can be held legally liable for "lying". There may be some exceptions to this rule but it's on a case-by-case basis (for example, a doctor's medical license may be under risk if the board finds they clearly stated something against medically-accepted standards, but even this is a decision by medical board depending on if they find the jurisdiction of the court and the testimony material, etc.)
dal-chaval-palidu wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:08 am

So their testimony would carry less weight in the court case, I understand. No other consequence? Like going to jail for lying under oath? Also, converting the civil case into a "criminal" case as the witness lied, and hence now forcing other witnesses to come and testify?

I just don't know the legal intricacies and that is why I am asking.
Thanks for your answer. Ramadan mubarak to all.