Few Frank Questions To The "Anti-Mufaddal" Bohras.

[Humsafar]

Daleel thi na koi hawala tha unke paas
Ajeeb log the bas ikhtilaaf rakhte the

[ghulam muhammed]

Sis CT,

Regarding "Proofs" for my OP, kindly note that whatever I have written is based on proofs lying very much on many other threads on this forum. I have already provided 1 "Proof" with regard to the 51st Dai's atrocity on women. Have patience and I will slowly and steadily provide proofs for every accusations made by me. Let this debate hot up a bit more !!

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro AZ, Humsafar, Biradar and Humanbeing,

This so called Critical_Thinker who claims to be a female is one of the many lumpen elements planted here with the only intention of diverting each and every thread with nonsensical arguments, there have been many such fly by night operators who have tried hard but had to vanish. I don't think that he or she belongs to the reformist group from Udaipur as he/she claims because if that was the case then before asking others to reveal their original identities, she/he would have herself revealed her/him identity as being a reformist should not bother her/him of any backlash from Kothari goons.

The other interesting thing to be noted is the "Timing" of her/his active participation. This is a time when Muffy is hell bent on publicising his first Mohurrum Tamasha during which he will be making a lot of moolah alongwith many other activities which would be uncomfortable for him if exposed and what other outlet then this very forum where his misdeeds are exposed to the fullest and its messages start flashing on Bohra watsup at jet speed. Hence this is a clear diversionary tactic adopted to divert attention from the burning issues by engaging members in nonsensical talks. So, please ignore her/him or better if Admin blocks her/his posts which are lethargic and have nothing concrete to offer.

[maethist]

Admin
Seems like this thread has turned into Anajmi v/s Maethist about existence of God . Can you please remove all these threads and move to Islam today or Here and Now.
May be create a thread Anjami v/s Maethist

Admin,

Moving matheist/anajmi conversations to Islam Today is a gross calumny against Islam Today forum.

I suggest that they be transferred post-haste to The Lighter Side forum, seeing they display comic brilliance of His Holiness, all-knowing, all-righteous Sheikh anajmi (SAW, TUS etc.)

[Ozdundee]

GM Bhai has nailed it the issue is kothar is trying hard to deflect people especially abdes and liberal Bohras off this website...they know how destructive this site is to their propaganda ...

It is because of this site and it's few reformist that he can no longer publicise the ziafats....this must have dented the marketing campaign for more ziafats

He can no longer show off hunting or any glamorous photo before getting shot down by this site...

Some negative criticism and words used in what's app are spawned from ideas and comments started here...so when others challenge that not all Bohras have access to Internet or visit this site...but the message gets through by transmission via other second systems ...

This site has become so lethal that news positive and negative is posted here before Amils in remote locations have got round...

This situation must be turning zadas red with envy and anger.

But while we complement the site for its outstanding service to reform, including the level headed Admin, this site is wiki leaks and the Snowden of Bohra...stay guard..they will find ways to not only discredit this site but actively take it down ....

I have warned you before they will even hire experts to hack, DOL or extract info through back door ...

[Humsafar]

But while we complement the site for its outstanding service to reform, including the level headed Admin, this site is wiki leaks and the Snowden of Bohra...stay guard..they will find ways to not only discredit this site but actively take it down ....

Obviously, some kind of campaign is afoot to discredit to this site. The angle being taken is to defame it as a "wahhabi" site. Beware when anyone uses that term here, most likely their motive is suspect.

[SBM]

Obviously, some kind of campaign is afoot to discredit to this site. The angle being taken is to defame it as a "wahhabi" site. Beware when anyone uses that term here, most likely their motive is suspect.

And the funny part is that same Kothari Goons including SMS have no problem meeting with Consulate Generals of Saudi-Kuwait-Jordan-Bahrain and Pakistan... All Wahabi Countries while staying away from IRANIAN dignitaries a real SHIA and WAHABI Haters.. One wonders if Kothari Goons are themselves Wahabis in the disguise as they act like Wahabi--no education for girls--stay away from work--Women's place in the house.

[Al Zulfiqar]

this site has always prided itself on affording the maximum possible latitude to members to express their views, be it pro or against. this is what distinguishes it from the purely sycophantic bohra sites such as maalumat, zeninfo etc. even die-hard abdes are given the freedom to come here to abuse, ridicule and throw out disparaging remarks to the progressive minded. in a curious twist, they seem to revel in the open skies policy here and speak their mind, without for the slightest minute appreciating the remarkable fact that there are few restrictions here, as compared to the oppressive regimes they slave under.

but the freedoms here are often abused, and as has been observed, we should all remain vigilant that this site and all of us do not fall into the trap laid by the saifee/burhani mafia which regularly sends in stooges, most armed with parroted sabaki 'ilm', having knowledge of arabic and the well-trained methods of diverting, obfuscating and misleading those who seek to oppose the kufr-filled deeds of the tyrannical establishment. a glaring example is adam, but there have been others in the past. they will play favorites with some, cast aspersions on others, create discord and strife, make a few guerilla-type stealthy strikes and then retreat to relative safety, only to re-appear when the time is ripe once again.

the wahabi term is a double edged sword. it is a convenient weapon with which to attack anyone the haramkhor clergy disagrees with, but it is also misused and hurled by many progressive-minded here, when they should know better, on people they have a dislike to. its a one-size-fits-all derogatory epithet in the arsenal of those weak in their faith or the logic in their arguments. this somehow dilutes and takes away from the serious damage that the real wahabi's are causing. crying wolf all the time serves no constructive purpose.

i have seen this site grow and mature, both in the way it is being run, and also in its impact. even if a miniscule % of bohras actually come here to contribute, a great many come to read, copy selected posts and then circulate it to 20-30 others, and it multiplies from there onwards through MMS. i have had many of my own postings here being frwded and refrwded to me from friends and relatives all over the world! its simply mind-boggling. that this site's influence will increase and increase exponentially is a given what with the rapid evolution of the cyber industry. bohras being a better educated community than most, and with many bohras actively engaged in the computer business and software development etc, i have personally found many bohras aware of this site, not just in the west, but even in the strongholds of india/pakistan. many are ashamed or fearful to admit it though. i know it for a solid fact that even many from the 'family' (saifee mahal denizens) come here to read, albeit most secretively and furtively.

[maethist]

Al Zulfiqar, Humsafar

A Wahhabi, in my view, is a rabid anti-Shia, accusing the Shia of Shirk and idol-worship and calling them Kafirs abusively. He ridicules 'intercession' and some very specific Shia doctrines.

al-aleem, al-rasheed Sheikh anajmi fits this description. People he sympathizes with across the globe are sworn to remove any trace of Shia from the face of the earth by destroying their shrines and killing them if they come in their way.

Both of you have agreed with anajmi in this accusation against orthodox Bohras (abdes). I would not label you Wahhabi simply because, unlike anajmi, you appear sympathetic to the Shia Bohra religion which you believe has been hijacked by 'Kothar' for its own corrupt aims.

My view is that abdes are entitled to worship in any manner they wish, build any shrine to their dead as they wish and practice their religion without let or hindrance.

Naturally, attacks on the Bohra cult will be resisted by cult members vehemently. Why should that surprise you? Yes, this site should protect itself from their attacks. Not to expect attacks would be foolish as this forum is in the forefront of attacks against the cult.

However, suspecting anyone who uses the description Wahhabi to be a Kothar implant seems a bit over the top. Abdes may view anyone who attacks them to be a Wahhabi because they associate Wahhabis to be in the forefront of the attack on the Shia generally. That is no different from calling anyone who wears qaumi libaas and goes to masjid as abde, when you know they could be closet progressives.

[Humsafar]

Al Zulfiqar, Humsafar

A Wahhabi, in my view, is a rabid anti-Shia, accusing the Shia of Shirk and idol-worship and calling them Kafirs abusively. He ridicules 'intercession' and some very specific Shia doctrines.

Both of you have agreed with anajmi in this accusation against orthodox Bohras (abdes).....

The accusation against abdes as "idol worshippers" predates this forum and anajmi. Nobody is agreeing with anybody. One only needs a basic knowledge of Islam to see that abde bohras have indeed become a cult. Even Shia and Bohras beliefs do not allow for such deification of the Dai. You should know where the charge of "kufr" against abdes is coming from - from a very narrow and specific context. It is not the same anti-shia charge of the wahhabis. You ought to know the difference. To mix the two and rope me and AZ into it is mischievous, if not outright devious.

[Al Zulfiqar]

My view is that abdes are entitled to worship in any manner they wish, build any shrine to their dead as they wish and practice their religion without let or hindrance.

.

then why are you here? to use this forum to propagate atheism among them?

and which 'religion' are you talking about? what the modern day bohras are practising is a weird pseudo shia-islamic cult.

since when has it become an avowed atheist's mission to promote extortionary, tyrannical cults?

[maethist]

My view is that abdes are entitled to worship in any manner they wish, build any shrine to their dead as they wish and practice their religion without let or hindrance.

.

then why are you here? to use this forum to propagate atheism among them?

and which 'religion' are you talking about? what the modern day bohras are practising is a weird pseudo shia-islamic cult.

since when has it become an avowed atheist's mission to promote extortionary, tyrannical cults?

The reason why I am here should be obvious. I enjoy reading your contribution and value the opportunity to comment.

I made it clear that I am not here to promote any religion, nor atheism, although I might comment on any religion and atheism.

I am against extortion and tyranny and do not promote it. I made it clear previously that members of a cult ought to be free to continue following their cult leaders as long as they do not cause harm or are not engaged in illegal activities as defined in the Laws of their countries. If there is a dispute within the cult as between reformists and abdes, then I will let them fight it out. I will not join that fight. That is why I may support one side or another verbally but do not wish to be active in the cult on either side.

That is my position. I may further clarify it in future.

[maethist]

Al Zulfiqar, Humsafar

A Wahhabi, in my view, is a rabid anti-Shia, accusing the Shia of Shirk and idol-worship and calling them Kafirs abusively. He ridicules 'intercession' and some very specific Shia doctrines.

Both of you have agreed with anajmi in this accusation against orthodox Bohras (abdes).....

The accusation against abdes as "idol worshippers" predates this forum and anajmi. Nobody is agreeing with anybody. One only needs a basic knowledge of Islam to see that abde bohras have indeed become a cult. Even Shia and Bohras beliefs do not allow for such deification of the Dai. You should know where the charge of "kufr" against abdes is coming from - from a very narrow and specific context. It is not the same anti-shia charge of the wahhabis. You ought to know the difference. To mix the two and rope me and AZ into it is mischievous, if not outright devious.

Humsafar,

You and AZ have both accused the cult of kufr and idol worship. In that sense you support anajmi.

I made it clear that I do not consider either of you Wahhabi as you are both involved in a dispute internal to the cult as members. anajmi is an outsider and he should have no business being in the fight and he should respect the Law of the United States, where I believe, he resides and let the cult be. I made that clear. But your quote has the relevant context removed.

[anajmi]

I am an outsider here to spread freedom and democracy amongst the bohras.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

plz plz plz bohras traditonal and reformist do no need people like anjami to solve thier problems

[ghulam muhammed]

MS is criticised for forcibly taking signatures of Bohras to prove his Nass whereas STS had done something similar when he forcibly took signatures of Bohras and some trustees of Faize Huseini, Karachi in order to usurp the trust and its properties. .

It was difficult for Dawoodi Bohras as for others to travel to Mecca and stay there for Haj during early days. Sir Adamji Peerbhoy realized this difficulty when he went on Haj for the first time in June 1882 with 125 Bohras from Kathyawar and Jamnagar. The people were required to come to Bombay to take a steamer for Mecca. There was no arrangement for Bohras to stay in Bombay and at Mecca, Medina and Karbala. So on his return from Haj he constructed a Sanatorium at Charni Road in Bombay and Bohra Rubats at all three places. Then in 1897 Seth Alibhai Karimji Alvi and Esaji Adamji established a Trust and named it as “Faiz-e-Husaini Charitable Trust with initial amount of Rs. 1,52,650/- by them and got it registered.

A memorandum submitted to the Governor of Bombay, Sir Leslie Wilson in 1933 states about this trust among many other cases of forceful usurpation of Community’s properties by Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb. The text in brief is as follows :-
A trust known as Faiz-e-Husaini was founded by some honest and sincere good Bohras of Karachi some 35 years back. Due to enormous amount of good work and benefit the value of the trust increased to 35 lacs rupees in a short time. All along the trustees carried out their affairs quietly and peacefully without any interference from any of the Mullaji Sahebs. About 6 months ago when the present Mullaji Sayedna Taher Saifuddin went to Karachi he sent his agents to the trustees asking them 1) first to include a clause in the Trust Deed that the trustees would not do any thing without first obtaining the permission of Mullaji. 2) On a vacancy the trustee would be appointed by Mullaji. With that The Sayedna Saheb started coercion but was advised by his lawyers that “his action would be illegal and he would be civilly and criminally liable for any interference in the trust matter as Trust Deed prohibited the interference of any one other than trustees.” He came back to Bombay and instructed his solicitors to draw up a deed transferring all properties and funds of Faiz-e-Husaini in Karach, Bombay, Basra and Karbala to the Mullaji’s name. He then sent his emissaries to trustees in Karach to sign the deed. The entire circumstances how trustees were compelled to sign the deed is most horrifying. Thus the biggest charitable institution was usurped by Sayedna Taher Saifuddin. The memorandum had asked the Governor of Bombay to inquire into the matter by reference to the collector of Karachi and said that [i]“Your Excellency will be horrified to know the tricks and dangerous games played by the Mullaji with Faiz-e-Husaini knowing fully well the law of the country.”
[/i]
The same Faiz-e-Husaini today under the absolute control of Sayedna Saheb has become an exclusive tour and travel agent for Dawoodi Bohras. Its original office in Bombay has been shifted from Moriswala Musafarkhana building to Mazgaon after the raid by the Enforcement Directorate and exposure of big Hawala Racket through 204 illegal Bank drafts worth Rs. 27 lacs in Oct. 1984. Today because of the very stakes involved Faiz-e-Husaini has been given so much importance that Bohras are made to believe as if there is no way to go to Haj, Umra and Ziyarat out side India except through Faiz and they ask “How do you organise Hajj?”

[seeker110]

Khuda ni rehmat Adamji Peerbhoy Saheeb na par, khuda ni lanat aena dushmano anay aeny aulad par.