Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
khan19922001
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 5:01 am

Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#1

Unread post by khan19922001 » Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:07 pm

If as the Ortho's believe, the Dai is the true torch bearer of Islam, shouldn't he try to preach his teachings to the non-Bohra muslims to save them from hell fire.

The first and foremost duty of the Dai is to spread the truth as he believes it. As he is the imam's rep. he cannot make the excuse that only imam can do the preaching.

So what does everyone else believe.

babu
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#2

Unread post by babu » Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:29 pm

Originally posted by khan19922001:
If as the Ortho's believe, the Dai is the true torch bearer of Islam, shouldn't he try to preach his teachings to the non-Bohra muslims to save them from hell fire.

The first and foremost duty of the Dai is to spread the truth as he believes it. As he is the imam's rep. he cannot make the excuse that only imam can do the preaching.

So what does everyone else believe.
:confused:
Originally posted by khan19922001: ( I am sick of 40 days of Ayyamut taabudaat )

Ali has hit the nail on the head. Why stay in a community that makes you so miserable. When I decided to break off, things people said were a) what will happen when u die, where will you be buried ? Hello!!! Does the burial place of anyone has anything to do with his final rewards/punishment in the life hereafter.

b) your children "misak" will not be taken? So what !!!There are millions around us who have not even heared of misak and there lives are no different than ours

c) Most importantly, which community do you now belong??? How will your children get married. These are questions which only time can answer.

I left this bohra mess, because I was not happy in staying in a community whose beliefs I could not accept.

Regards
:confused: first you tell us Do You Believe in Dawat or not ???

tahir
Posts: 1229
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#3

Unread post by tahir » Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:39 am

shouldn't he try to preach his teachings to the non-Bohra muslims to save them from hell fire
khan...we should consider the humaity lucky and thank God that the dai is not trying to preach non bohras...just imagine- 6 billion morons in place of 1 million morons!!! ...and imagine english newspapers replete with irritating hindi/urdu along with out of place muhavaras and shers.... :D

khan19922001
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#4

Unread post by khan19922001 » Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:13 am

Dear Babu

I don't beleive in the Dawat. My question was raised as to why no preaching or calling to faith is done by the Bohri's, because they consider themselves to be superior to other muslim communites and constantly ridicule other muslims in thier private gatherings.

Regards

babu
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#5

Unread post by babu » Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:26 am

Originally posted by khan19922001:
Dear Babu

I don't beleive in the Dawat.
If one doesnt believe in Dawat, he shouldn't ask anything related to it .

khan19922001
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#6

Unread post by khan19922001 » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:32 am

This is the typical response I was expecting. The answer would not have been any different if I had lied and said that I believed in the Dawat. Babu would have then replied that I should have faith in what the Dai says and redo my "misak" which was obviously broken, as I was asking questions.

Babu, I was a Bohra for forty years. In these years, I did everything which I was told i.e folded my hands in front of the clergy, almost did Qabambossi, as my nikah was performed by the current Dai, paid my wajebaat etc etc etc. However, one look at the outside and reading some books and a little bit of the Quran, I was out. I mean really out, not a reformist.

So all I want to know is why the Bohra's don't believe in "tableegh" Why everything is so hush hush. If this attitude our Prophet (PBUH) had taken, there would have been very few muslims in the world.

Regards

kabeer19922001
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#7

Unread post by kabeer19922001 » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:33 am

Well Babu any comments???

Kaka Akela
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#8

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:36 pm

Br.khan19922001- Reading some books and a little bit of Quran made you get out of the bohra religion?????? That is very amazing!!!!! I have read a lot of books on Islam and all other major religions and have read the whole Quran with meanings with every footnote there is and I am still a Dawoodi Bohra. I don't agree with all the practices of Kothari Mullahs and scheming Bhaisahebs but I firmly believe this is the best religion there is (the Bohra version of it). Please go back and finish reading the rest of the Quran and may be then Allah will guide you back to your old faith. Folding hands is just a visual symbol of obedience. You have to obey somebody in the world and you do, don't you? You obey your boss, you obey the red and green signals on the street, and you obey many many things that you don't even realize, but you do obey, there is no relief from obedience. SO what is wrong with obeying a pious person (or his office that he is holdiong). He may be surrounded by the greedy and money grubbing people just like there is one tongue among 32 teeth. To cleanse them all out means for him to destroy the whole infra-structure of Dawat, may be the time is not now or may not be his mission.
When Imam went into seclusion he appointed Dai in his place with specific instruction of no tableegh, the instructions were to take care of my flock while I go in seclusion, the flock includes the increase due to births in the flock or voluntary conversions but no active tableegh to invite others to join us. I am also very critical of many goings on in our religion, including the class-system of qasr-e-aali, bait-e-zaini and other bhaisahebs and now a new class of jamea-educated looters (here in Texas and everywhere else), I think these people are a cancer in the garden of dawat. Something should be done to get rid of these cancerous elements but then again it may be the mission of another dai and not this one, so we bear patiently and try to act meek while we are buying time.

porus
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#9

Unread post by porus » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:56 pm

Traffic lights must be observed by all regardless of their contrived status in a social pecking order.

Similarly palming hands should be done by the Dai too. Ever observed His Holiness the Dalai Lama. When people palm their hands to greet him, he palms his hands right back at them.

Is there a lesson here?

Humsafar
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#10

Unread post by Humsafar » Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:26 pm

There are two problems with "palming of hand".

1) It lacks the "touchy-feely" experience. The physical touch is the spiritual necessity between moula and his devotees.

2) All that the moula wants is that his palms be greased - with moolah.

porus
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#11

Unread post by porus » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:05 pm

I 'sort of' coined the word 'palming' for what Bohras do in front of their Moula and all the rest of the hierarchy. But there are other meanings of the word 'palming'.

Palming is a conjurer's trick of hiding an object in the palm. What do Bohras hide? Fear or Shame? Or the miniscule amount of money they are forced to part with?

Palming is also a name of a famous technique to improve vision. Ironically, it refers to cupping eyes with your palms. See the connection, like in "See no evil"? It improves the vision of 'akherat'.

Muslim First
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Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#12

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:35 am

.

Kaka

What abut burying your face in Maulana’s crouch to perform so called ‘Qadambosi’?

Probably you like it so you are still Bohra.

Wasalaam
.

Muslim First
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Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#13

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:18 pm

Kaka Akela said;
I have read a lot of books on Islam and all other major religions and have read the whole Quran with meanings with every footnote there is and I am still a Dawoodi Bohra. I don't agree with all the practices of Kothari Mullahs and scheming Bhaisahebs but I firmly believe this is the best religion there is (the Bohra version of it).
Brother you must have read translation of whole Quran with all footnotes but you must not have understood a word of it.

You probably missed reading

"And the places of worship (Masjids) are for Allah (alone): so invoke not anyone along with Allah. [72:18]

For one who has confessed belief in Allah and the Last Day (Muslim or Mumin), to eat or assemble to eat of the food which has been assigned to any other name other than that of Allah Subhanah (jaman), or to gather and praise, glorify, invoke, and worship any other than Allah Subhanah (majlis), to give sermons praising, glorifying, invoking, and worshipping any other than the Lord Most Majestic (waaz), etc. is a grave and abomination of the sin of ‘shirk’ by itself; but to do and further this abomination of ‘shirk’ in the Masjids and houses of Allah is a sin beyond compare!

Unknowingly you probably like to do it.

You probably did not understand many Ayas of Quran telling you to worship Allah and Allah alone.

You probably enjoy spectacles performed in you version of Islam like your demigod entering Masjid carried on the shoulders of so called Royal Family!

http://malumaat.com/pics/darussalam/142 ... mabas2.jpg
http://malumaat.com/pics/darussalam/142 ... mabas3.jpg

or you like your Hindu roots and love performing or watching Hindu rituals like Sharbat, Wadahvunu etc. etc.

Did you ever pause and ponder over Ayas in Quran which warns you that the false hopes the disbelievers and polytheists put on their self-invented deities, gods and demigods makes them arrogant in the life of the transitory world, and they reject the guidance and call of Allah and His Messenger (saws) to believe in their Lord Creator and do righteous good deeds!

I would love to find out why and how your version of Islam is superior to those who try to practice Islam as taught by Prophet of Allah Muhammad SAW

Hope to hear from you.
Wasalaam
.

Humsafar
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#14

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:58 pm

Porus,

Right. Here's a couple of more meanings:

Isn't it true that Sayedna and his crew are "palming off" their neat little racket as a religion? And then there's the "itchy palms" - itching for moolah, of course - all mullahs seem to suffer from it. :)

kabeer19922001
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#15

Unread post by kabeer19922001 » Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:15 am

Another gem from Kaka "

How is this in line with the Quran's teachings. Mr. Kaka can you quote some authentic references from the Quran or the Hadith to support your statement.

Please read the translation of Sura Aale Imran and then give your reply.

Muslim First, you must not let Kaka Akela to get away with this nonsense.

Regards

kabeer19922001
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#16

Unread post by kabeer19922001 » Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:16 am

The quote I was referring to in my earlier post

"When Imam went into seclusion he appointed Dai in his place with specific instruction of no tableegh, the instructions were to take care of my flock while I go in seclusion, the flock includes the increase due to births in the flock or voluntary conversions but no active tableegh to invite others to join us"

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#17

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:42 am

.
Br. Khan aka kabeer
AS

Kaka Akela has too much on his plate. I hope he was able to understand my post of 9/9/05. Let us wait for his responce.

Br. Kaka Akela
AS

Please educate us to why your Tariqa of Islam is superior then any other. Show me by Quran and Hadith that it is closest to one practiced by Prophet SAW and it is devoid of Innovations (Bidaa).

Wasalaam.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#18

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Sep 10, 2005 1:33 pm

Kaka Akela wrote;
You have to obey somebody in the world and you do, don't you?
Yes. As far as Islam is concerned you have to obay only to Allah SWT. You obay Allah SWT by doing good and staying away from evil. Follow Quran and Teaching of our Prophet SAW and that will be sufficient.

Wasalaam
.

anajmi
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Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#19

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:50 pm

kaka akela said
SO what is wrong with obeying a pious person (or his office that he is holdiong). He may be surrounded by the greedy and money grubbing people just like there is one tongue among 32 teeth. To cleanse them all out means for him to destroy the whole infra-structure of Dawat, may be the time is not now or may not be his mission.
Hey you can replace your teeth if they are as bad as the kothari thieves are!!

If this guy cannot clean up the act of those that are the closest to him, how can one expect him to clean up the entire community? Or may be he is in on the looting too!!

So he is either helpless to clean the shit up or he is part of the shit himself. Either way, he does not deserve to be the dai. Time for a regime change. Bush, can you please bomb the shit out of kothar and kill all the innocents in mumbai please!!

S. Insaf
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:01 am

Re: Responsibility of the Dai towards non-Bohra's

#20

Unread post by S. Insaf » Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:00 am

As I have stated earlier somewhere on this site to me Sayedna Burhanuddin seems to be weak person including his weakness for wealth, luxury and fame. When his mother Haseena I-saheba was poisoned and killed her entire family broke relation with Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb but he alone remained with him.
His expulsion from Tanzania immediately after occupying the seat of Dawat on charges of illegal transfer of money shows his greed for wealth.
Again he acted like a puppet in the hands of his brother Yusuf Najmuddin who planned an assault on the learned four ustads of Jamiyah and on innocent Bohra women in Gliakot and on reformist leaders at Calcutta, Hydarabad and Qairo.
Rather than falling in the hands of YN if Burhanuddin Saheb had read books he would have realized that religious fanatism has its own logic. Once unleashed, it becomes a self-sustaining force having its own agenda. Bohras otherwise are mild and non-confronting.
Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb had always kept the Mazoon and Mukasir in prominence but this man has reduced them to zero and he is only trying to project himself.
I have spent many nights with Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb listening to his words and judging his vast knowledge like Bagwan Rajneesh. Rajneesh used to buy books of religion, human psychology, philosophy, town planning, science and literature, worth Rs. 10,000 every month in Bombay. I totally disagree with Rajneesh but what I am trying to emphasis is the way these swamis keep track of modern thought and then impress their audience. I am going through the various speeches and sermons delivered year after year by Sayedna Burhanuddin Saheb but find no knowledge or wisdom in them. Which shows that he is not been any book beside elementary vaiz stuff.