Is this site for Bohras who doubt their faith?

[morela]

Hi
I found this site to be an excellent resource , It made me realize how the clergy is brainwashing and behaving like jewish rabbis, Indeed such a blind faith needs not only to be doubted but challenged.

I hope some constructive steps are taken to strip these clergy of the trillions$ of property and gives us back the control to our properties like how sunni has waqf board.

[AmmarHussaini]

no one doubt faith here, infact bohras are one of the best people in islamic world (excluding abdes), but yes we doubt the intentions of present leader who turned out to be a joker.

I really wish sensible people abolish this dai and take things in their hand and elect some one sensible and construct a commitee and start operating just like how catholic does.


tenure of a leader should be fixed and he should not be given any special treatment and he should be honest and parhazgaar.

[morela]

Yes this concept of dai should be abolished ASAP. It does not even have any basis in Quran. They are not authorized by anyone. Infact they are misusing names of ahlebayt (A.S).

[Adam]

I really wish sensible people abolish this dai and take things in their hand and elect some one sensible

Fantastic. You claim to be a Bohra and want to elect your religious leader.
After Rasoolullah, do you know who was appointed and who was "elected"?
Why don't you elect who the Prophets are as well?

[truth seeker100]

Adam the prophets were chosen by god, but these dais, they are chosen by their family and don't give a damn about religion, they only care about mony and ayashi.

[AmmarHussaini]

elected person will handle dawat much better than current joker mufaddal, at least he will fear of people and take appropriate decisions and care about the people.

current dai have no lineage with Muhammed(s) or Imam Ali.

considering them holy is biggest mistake bohras are doing.

[zinger]

this site is not for Bohras who doubt their faith. This site is for Bohras who are unhappy with the way things are going on in the community.

This site is CERTAINLY NOT however, for people who want to "elect the Dai in a democratic process"

People who want to "elect their Dai" are better of starting their own faith and inviting people there

Nitwits need to understand that Islam does not allow for "democratic elections" but is about the predecessor appointing his/her successor

[AmmarHussaini]

this site is not for Bohras who doubt their faith. This site is for Bohras who are unhappy with the way things are going on in the community.

This site is CERTAINLY NOT however, for people who want to "elect the Dai in a democratic process"

People who want to "elect their Dai" are better of starting their own faith and inviting people there

Nitwits need to understand that Islam does not allow for "democratic elections" but is about the predecessor appointing his/her successor

prove it from Quraan, Islam just allows prophet to be elected by ALLAH and none else.

prophethood ended with Muhammed(s) and now no leader can claim that he is appointed by ALLAH.


if leadership would be just about lineage we all would be following the offspring and heir of prophet ADAM and none else.

ALLAH chose prophets world wide, which shows end of lineage does comes and then people need to take action.

[silvertongue]

Agreed Zinger bro...

[WiththenameofAllah]

There is no concept of Dai in Islam. Can't we lead life like normal muslims? Whoever elected or appointed by predecessor will have power and power will lead only to corruption and misguidance.

[AmmarHussaini]

let me add some thing funny to this conversation :

if some one is really looking to follow true successor and true blood connected person with prophet and imam then he must follow agha khan (yes he might not be following islam but he is really descent of prophet through blood)

but again such "syyed" successors are hundred in world, just in Iran there are million such syyed who can prove lineage with Ali and Muhammed(s).

[WiththenameofAllah]

One can read the history of Fatimids here . And i am sure dawoodi bohra community is the lineage of same.

http://lostislamichistory.com/who-were-the-fatimids/

[silvertongue]

True... heheh woow thats a fact though..

[zinger]

this site is not for Bohras who doubt their faith. This site is for Bohras who are unhappy with the way things are going on in the community.

This site is CERTAINLY NOT however, for people who want to "elect the Dai in a democratic process"

People who want to "elect their Dai" are better of starting their own faith and inviting people there

Nitwits need to understand that Islam does not allow for "democratic elections" but is about the predecessor appointing his/her successor

prove it from Quraan, Islam just allows prophet to be elected by ALLAH and none else.

prophethood ended with Muhammed(s) and now no leader can claim that he is appointed by ALLAH.


if leadership would be just about lineage we all would be following the offspring and heir of prophet ADAM and none else.

ALLAH chose prophets world wide, which shows end of lineage does comes and then people need to take action.

Read my post again. if it still does not make sense to you then i cannot help it.

Prophet Muhammad (SAW), appointed his successor as Ali, who eventually appointed his successor and so on and so forth, until the 21st Imam, post which the Duats came into the equation.

i cant make it simpler than that.

[zinger]

There is no concept of Dai in Islam. Can't we lead life like normal muslims? Whoever elected or appointed by predecessor will have power and power will lead only to corruption and misguidance.

if by normal Muslims you mean what ISIS/ISIL and Syrians and Iranians and Palestinians and Iraqis etc are doing to each other, then i would much rather lead this life, thank you very much

[silvertongue]

The Succession is important here. Nabi a.s appointed Ali a.s. by the will of Allah swt, and the same continued with the chain of Imams. The Dai however came as an office appointed by the Imam a.s himself to run the Islamic society on behalf of him. Dai at that time could be anyone who had most of the knowledge about Islam and was a pious person. Unlike greedy and Earthly Gods like today.

[zinger]

let me add some thing funny to this conversation :

if some one is really looking to follow true successor and true blood connected person with prophet and imam then he must follow agha khan (yes he might not be following islam but he is really descent of prophet through blood)

but again such "syyed" successors are hundred in world, just in Iran there are million such syyed who can prove lineage with Ali and Muhammed(s).

You are right. Prince Aga Khan is indeed one of the the legitamte bloodlines of the Prophet, albiet a different lineage, but the lineage of the Prophet nonetheless.

As to whether he follows Islam or not, i dont remember anyone dying and making you God around here that you will pass judgement

[silvertongue]

There is no concept of Dai in Islam.

YES there is. Dai is the One who invites people to the faith, to the prayer, or to Islamic life. The invitation or “call” to Islam is known as dawah. In modern Islam, many Muslim groups around the world actively engage in dawah. Simply put the one who does DAWAH of Islam is a Dai...

[silvertongue]

The Quran itself has a WORD "DAI".. Check it out:
Here the Messenger pbuh is addressed as a Dai of Allah..

[silvertongue]

Whoever elected or appointed by predecessor will have power and power will lead only to corruption and misguidance.

Imagine the World without LAWS... Its not possible. A leader has to be there to make sure the status quo remains stable. IF not things go out of control and crime increases. And all of you are aware how we hear crimes and thefts, murders everyday where there is no higher authority ruling there.

[think]

If the machinery of the dai is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another , then, I say, break the law. get out of the bondage.

[fustrate_Bohra]

I really wish sensible people abolish this dai and take things in their hand and elect some one sensible

Fantastic. You claim to be a Bohra and want to elect your religious leader.
After Rasoolullah, do you know who was appointed and who was "elected"?
Why don't you elect who the Prophets are as well?

Adam, you mean to say being a dawoodi bohra we have to accept the doctrine of dai, i agree, having said that My question is "What is more important to you label of dai or person with qualities of dai?"

Do reply on this.

[fustrate_Bohra]

this site is not for Bohras who doubt their faith. This site is for Bohras who are unhappy with the way things are going on in the community.

This site is CERTAINLY NOT however, for people who want to "elect the Dai in a democratic process"

People who want to "elect their Dai" are better of starting their own faith and inviting people there

Nitwits need to understand that Islam does not allow for "democratic elections" but is about the predecessor appointing his/her successor

zinger bhai we all rational thinkers know something is not correct with our present dai so this raise question "Whether our imam has really elected MS as dai via smb?"

Secondly, if we are aware our dai is not upto mark than what according to you should be done?

According to me either our dai should change himself(certainly not possible) or we should have democracy in place to elect a person having DAI LIKE CAPABILITIES and i dont think any wrong in this as our doctrine of dai has been corrupted long long back and we have no other option.

[zinger]

AGA.jpg

Aga Khan and family don't look like muslims, leave aside 'Imam'.... Look for his family's other pics on the net.

You are right. Prince Aga Khan is indeed one of the the legitamte bloodlines of the Prophet, albiet a different lineage, but the lineage of the Prophet nonetheless.

As to whether he follows Islam or not, i dont remember anyone dying and making you God around here that you will pass judgement

I must say, i was quite surprised to read this post. i always figured you to be far more sensible and open-minded and fair and partial than this. i dont know what has gotten into you. i have mentioned this to you in a PM too

Anyways, remember what Jesus AS said???? Let he who hath never sinned cast the first stone.

I really dont think you or I or anyone else for that matter should be sitting in judgement.

we have enough issues in our own community. lets clean those up before we start flinging mud on others

[zinger]

this site is not for Bohras who doubt their faith. This site is for Bohras who are unhappy with the way things are going on in the community.

This site is CERTAINLY NOT however, for people who want to "elect the Dai in a democratic process"

People who want to "elect their Dai" are better of starting their own faith and inviting people there

Nitwits need to understand that Islam does not allow for "democratic elections" but is about the predecessor appointing his/her successor

zinger bhai we all rational thinkers know something is not correct with our present dai so this raise question "Whether our imam has really elected MS as dai via smb?"

Secondly, if we are aware our dai is not upto mark than what according to you should be done?

According to me either our dai should change himself(certainly not possible) or we should have democracy in place to elect a person having DAI LIKE CAPABILITIES and i dont think any wrong in this as our doctrine of dai has been corrupted long long back and we have no other option.

PLEASE....PLEASE READ my post again. i cannot tell you anything more than that.

Q1 - zinger bhai we all rational thinkers know something is not correct with our present dai so this raise question "Whether our imam has really elected MS as dai via smb?"
A1 - I dont know the answer to this one. Im guessing that the Bohra doctrine states that the Dai is appointed by the Ilham of the Imam but i really would not want to get into a discussion on this for 2 reasons - a) i am not qualified enough to have a discussion on this and b) this discussion will go off tangent with people questioning the existence of an Imam, which is a key principle of Shia beliefs. Hence i am not ready to answer this

Q2 - Secondly, if we are aware our dai is not upto mark than what according to you should be done?
A2 - You have already expressed your opinion on this. If you feel that the Dai changing himself is not possible, then that is what you think. if you think we should elect a Dai, well then, all the best. like i said, feel free to form your own version of a religous sect where the head is "democratically elected". Are you sure you have no option? You do, feel free to leave the Dawoodi Bohra sect and join a version of Islam that suits you, because in this one, there is no scope of what you suggest.

P.S. Im not being obstinate. just telling you. Ask Sunni Muslims to select one spiritual head like a Dai to lead them. See what they say. What is not possible, is not possible

[silvertongue]

We have no right to point fingers at others if our own community has so many flaws. We are not perfect than how can we blame others for not being so. Forget the Aga Khans. Let them be on their path. What they do is not our concern at all. First whats important is to improve ourselves, then our surroundings and our living. If we dont follow what comes to us then we also dont have right to mock others of not following it.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

i agree completely with u
lets not discuss agak khanis on this site in future.
this is a dawoodi bohra site.
we have our own problems to solve
personally i feel agakhanis are more better than bohras.
may be even more muslim---dont know--who are we to judge.
there was one survey done in america--i dont have the link--but it was done by muslim who were
converted from christianity in america.
they came up with very gud results.
according to them there is more islam in western countries.
like they follow more of islamic principles--but ppl there are not muslims.
and in west asia--there is much less of following of islamic teachings though
there are more muslims.

but let that be.

[morela]

Daee are people who invite non Muslims to Islam , and not these hereditary priesthood which has no divine authority. Alavi bohra has its daee, sulamani has , and now qutbi , This prooves beyond doubt that daee has no divine authority.

Infact if you see the history , it was "hurratul malika" (A maasi bu) who invented this "daee" concept. The death of the "Imam tayyab" could bot be fathomed by them as his death without successor assigned meant falsehood of the theory of Imamate which they took great pains to hide.

Since this daee has no divine authority it is fair seeming that "best among" the people should be elected as a "Imam"\Caliph.

There can be exams like CAT to screen and then elect a Imam. A candidate Imam has to work hard to get that position , should be pious humble and have all qualities that Ali A.S had.

The sunni caliph system too can be modified to make this possible, infact they too did this and ushered in the golden era.

[zinger]

Daee are people who invite non Muslims to Islam , and not these hereditary priesthood which has no divine authority. Alavi bohra has its daee, sulamani has , and now qutbi , This prooves beyond doubt that daee has no divine authority.

Infact if you see the history , it was "hurratul malika" (A maasi bu) who invented this "daee" concept. The death of the "Imam tayyab" could bot be fathomed by them as his death without successor assigned meant falsehood of the theory of Imamate which they took great pains to hide.

Since this daee has no divine authority it is fair seeming that "best among" the people should be elected as a "Imam"\Caliph.

There can be exams like CAT to screen and then elect a Imam. A candidate Imam has to work hard to get that position , should be pious humble and have all qualities that Ali A.S had.

The sunni caliph system too can be modified to make this possible, infact they too did this and ushered in the golden era.

then by all means, form the question paper. all the best

[truth seeker100]

Daee are people who invite non Muslims to Islam , and not these hereditary priesthood which has no divine authority. Alavi bohra has its daee, sulamani has , and now qutbi , This prooves beyond doubt that daee has no divine authority.

Infact if you see the history , it was "hurratul malika" (A maasi bu) who invented this "daee" concept. The death of the "Imam tayyab" could bot be fathomed by them as his death without successor assigned meant falsehood of the theory of Imamate which they took great pains to hide.

Since this daee has no divine authority it is fair seeming that "best among" the people should be elected as a "Imam"\Caliph.

There can be exams like CAT to screen and then elect a Imam. A candidate Imam has to work hard to get that position , should be pious humble and have all qualities that Ali A.S had.

The sunni caliph system too can be modified to make this possible, infact they too did this and ushered in the golden era.

then by all means, form the question paper. all the best

and you can by all means worship your fake dai muffy