Abdes and their blind faith

[MUSTAPH]

hey guys
does any one know maxthemature out here he is from Dubai. He messaged me of promising me to give me evidences of how great SMS is and how bad SKQ is. we have exchanged enough of emails where he claimed a lot of good things about SMS. All his claims made have been without any evidences and whenever asked for any verification he only keeps saying he is waiting for the right moment to give me those evidences. Now, when I am firm for the evidence he comes up with new funda that I am not a believer so he will not give me any evidences. But, if I was a blind believer like him I dont understand why would I need any evidence.
He had claimed that in one of his business venture to be in India along with a sunni partner he had taken raza from SMS. he was advised not to do the business and he decided to obey SMS. the sunni partner got angry and continued with the venture alone. the business went in losses and the sunni partner realized the greatness of the raza from SMS.
I have just asked for the contact number of this sunni partner but maxthemature refuses to share that number with me inspite of promising me to give his number.

there are other claims on which he promised but have denied bluntly now. If any one here happens to know him please advice him of refraining from such false claims and open his eyes to the real world and see the truth.

[truth seeker100]

max is nothing but a stubid mufatlal abde. they are all the same. when asked for proof they shy away. it is the same with zinger and adam, they refuse to give me proof since they say I'm not a believer. forget about these abdes, they have no life

[dal-chaval-palidu]

max is nothing but a stubid mufatlal abde. they are all the same. when asked for proof they shy away. it is the same with zinger and adam, they refuse to give me proof since they say I'm not a believer. forget about these abdes, they have no life

Sorry, truthseeker100, I will respectfully but strongly disagree with your characterization of Zinger (Zainul bhai) in the same way as maxthemature or Adam. In my interactions with him, he has been courteous and reasonable.

Got to speak up when such inaccurate assuations are hurled.

[MUSTAPH]

Dal chaval palidu
I myself do not like characterization of people but these people are actually dangerous as they mislead people.
Maxthemature had claimed the presence of dai after dai on the face of this earth till eternity. I accepted to believe this if he could show me any reference of this in Quran or any other religious scriptures. Maxthemature sends me an article of Syedna Moayyed Shirazi. The innocent fellow does things only he has access to the internet. He does not forward the link but copy paste's the article by making changes as he deems fit.
Syedna Moayyed Shirazi was a dai in one of the imam's time and has only written about the presence of imam after imams, he has never mentioned the reference of dai.
When I sent this clarification to Maxthemature he started abusing my Faith and ask me questions like if I am at least a Muslim leave apart a mumin. Now I never understood that if I do not believe in dai does that means I am not mumin. I can be very much mumin and Muslim even if I do not believe in the doctrines of dawoodi bohra.
Am I incorrect

[humanbeing]

A suitable title for the thread can be : Predicament or Dilemma of Bohras or Abdes

Maxthemature is not new in the breed of abdes to justify SMS or Kothari enterprise. There are thousands or million of abdes who have no idea what they are defending. Negative emotions are far more easy to express then positive ones. So to express their love for SMS, it is far more easy to abuse others who do not confirm to their way of maula worship.

An intelligent discussion amongst abdes is a competition of who and how loves the maula more than the other. In this race of abdes, kothar is the winner pocketing the wealth of abdes, while they are busy running outdoing each other.

Abdes like these are too scared to step out of their well and acknowledge the fact that there is a wide beautiful world with diversity and tolerance and most important of all common sense exist. They actually believe the bureaucratic management of life after death and kothar its administrators.

In some of the sabaks I have attended, I was appalled listening to the Kothari mullahs, the impunity and boldness with which they throw bullshit at the abdes is surprising to hilarious and these abdes lap it up with awe and admiration. Mullahs goes on unchallenged with his blasphemous theories.

An interesting theory promoted by a Kothari mullah; after drumming up the emotions of abdes by some fake sob sob pile on sympathy for “aqa maula” , he urged abdes to buy heaven by making maula happy by giving ziyafats !

“maula jannat na zaameen che ! aavo aavo mumino… jannat khareedi lo ! maula ne khush kari lo… imam Hussein no maatam kari lo ! roza, namaaz ni paabandi kari lo, WAJEBAAT faakhir ma faakhir aapo ! ZIYAFAT aapo ! maula Ghana khush thaai che ! “
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am no great guy to pass judgements about others, but a word of support for Zinger ! he is civilized and courteous in discussions, expressing his thoughts honestly, however they are complex or contradictory. However zinger has always been vocal and logical about calling spade a spade at the same time he expressed his affiliation and affection towards Kothar clergy. It is not surprising to see many people go through similar dilemmas and beat themselves hard to keep their faith in kothar, on which they have been bought up. The only sense of spirituality they have experienced is in the cocoon of bohra community.

[MUSTAPH]

guys please help me understand one thing. these abdes who claim to be honest followers take the raza before visting and commenting on this site or is this one action performed without the raza mubarak.

lets not say it in general it would be better if these followers themselves comment personnally if their individual self have taken any raza.

[haqniwaat]

guys please help me understand one thing. these abdes who claim to be honest followers take the raza before visting and commenting on this site or is this one action performed without the raza mubarak.

lets not say it in general it would be better if these followers themselves comment personnally if their individual self have taken any raza.

You're joking, right? !

[MUSTAPH]

no dear I am not joking, I just wish to know if the ardent followers have raza to comment here or are they doing this without raza mubarak. As if they are doing this without raza mubarak than their this amal is not counted valid and they should maybe do zabihat or pay some penalty for the error done and refrain from doing so in the future.

[SBM]

Let us not put our Abde/Amte friends on spot as we all know that Kothari Goons will never give Raza to visit this forum.
Atleast this forum is enlightening these people and we also find more about Ayaashi of Zaadas thru disgruntled Abdes/Amtes

[MUSTAPH]

Guys please it's a request to let the title of this forum be Maxthemature as I want him to reply here.

I do not know how to change this please change it again.

[haqniwaat]

no dear I am not joking, I just wish to know if the ardent followers have raza to comment here or are they doing this without raza mubarak. As if they are doing this without raza mubarak than their this amal is not counted valid and they should maybe do zabihat or pay some penalty for the error done and refrain from doing so in the future.

Okay, let's have a reality check here. Nobody needs "raza" to go online on the net. Yes, maybe if you are a mufaddal bs follower, you do. But God has given us the right to do as we will and we hope to do His will. With that said, the true meaning of raza is to receive blessings from the Da'i for the actions you have decided to take i.e. buy a house, etc.
The issue you are referring to is not "raza", but rather breaking of misaaq. Because in misaaq, you swear an oath that you will stay away from those who overtly show their hatred and non-belief towards the Da'i. So in a way, this website itself would come into that fold. But since we are in a very rare situation in history, many of us find this forum to be the only place where we can vent and listen to others vent in chorus - this gives us a sense of security. So to sum it up, if you are being lead astray by reading this forum, then yes, avoid it. But if you are helping others or if you are simply providing information to others and seeking the same, then it's okay for the time being.

[truth seeker100]

max is nothing but a stubid mufatlal abde. they are all the same. when asked for proof they shy away. it is the same with zinger and adam, they refuse to give me proof since they say I'm not a believer. forget about these abdes, they have no life

Sorry, truthseeker100, I will respectfully but strongly disagree with your characterization of Zinger (Zainul bhai) in the same way as maxthemature or Adam. In my interactions with him, he has been courteous and reasonable.

Got to speak up when such inaccurate assuations are hurled.

zinger might speak better but he is still the same as max and adam, when I asked him to show me proof for his beliefs, he shyied away, saying that he does not need to provide proof.

[zinger]

Sorry, truthseeker100, I will respectfully but strongly disagree with your characterization of Zinger (Zainul bhai) in the same way as maxthemature or Adam. In my interactions with him, he has been courteous and reasonable.

Got to speak up when such inaccurate assuations are hurled.

zinger might speak better but he is still the same as max and adam, when I asked him to show me proof for his beliefs, he shyied away, saying that he does not need to provide proof.

For the record, i did not shy away. i left because i refuse to have a conversation with one who has no manners!

[zinger]

max is nothing but a stubid mufatlal abde. they are all the same. when asked for proof they shy away. it is the same with zinger and adam, they refuse to give me proof since they say I'm not a believer. forget about these abdes, they have no life

Sorry, truthseeker100, I will respectfully but strongly disagree with your characterization of Zinger (Zainul bhai) in the same way as maxthemature or Adam. In my interactions with him, he has been courteous and reasonable.

Got to speak up when such inaccurate assuations are hurled.

thank you for your kind words

[zinger]

A suitable title for the thread can be : Predicament or Dilemma of Bohras or Abdes

Maxthemature is not new in the breed of abdes to justify SMS or Kothari enterprise. There are thousands or million of abdes who have no idea what they are defending. Negative emotions are far more easy to express then positive ones. So to express their love for SMS, it is far more easy to abuse others who do not confirm to their way of maula worship.

An intelligent discussion amongst abdes is a competition of who and how loves the maula more than the other. In this race of abdes, kothar is the winner pocketing the wealth of abdes, while they are busy running outdoing each other.

Abdes like these are too scared to step out of their well and acknowledge the fact that there is a wide beautiful world with diversity and tolerance and most important of all common sense exist. They actually believe the bureaucratic management of life after death and kothar its administrators.

In some of the sabaks I have attended, I was appalled listening to the Kothari mullahs, the impunity and boldness with which they throw bullshit at the abdes is surprising to hilarious and these abdes lap it up with awe and admiration. Mullahs goes on unchallenged with his blasphemous theories.

An interesting theory promoted by a Kothari mullah; after drumming up the emotions of abdes by some fake sob sob pile on sympathy for “aqa maula” , he urged abdes to buy heaven by making maula happy by giving ziyafats !

“maula jannat na zaameen che ! aavo aavo mumino… jannat khareedi lo ! maula ne khush kari lo… imam Hussein no maatam kari lo ! roza, namaaz ni paabandi kari lo, WAJEBAAT faakhir ma faakhir aapo ! ZIYAFAT aapo ! maula Ghana khush thaai che ! “
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am no great guy to pass judgements about others, but a word of support for Zinger ! he is civilized and courteous in discussions, expressing his thoughts honestly, however they are complex or contradictory. However zinger has always been vocal and logical about calling spade a spade at the same time he expressed his affiliation and affection towards Kothar clergy. It is not surprising to see many people go through similar dilemmas and beat themselves hard to keep their faith in kothar, on which they have been bought up. The only sense of spirituality they have experienced is in the cocoon of bohra community.

Affiliation and affection? Really?
I'm shocked.. i didnt know hating the kothar is considered as "affiliation and affection"... are you sure you haven't mixed me up with someone else?

Like i mentioned once before, the only thing i dispense freely to the Kothar is my contempt and disdain

My faith by the way, is in Allah, RasulAllah (SAW), Maula Ali, Imams and Dai's (uptil Burhanuddin Maula RA), certainly not the jokers who make up the Kothar

[humanbeing]

My faith by the way, is in Allah, RasulAllah (SAW), Maula Ali, Imams and Dai's (uptil Burhanuddin Maula RA), certainly not the jokers who make up the Kothar[/b

SMB was the head honcho supremo of kothar, kothar and the present dai is the same. Everything that kothar does is with sanctions of the dai. So let’s come out of your delusion and escapist faith you are clinging on to.

[haqniwaat]

SMB was the head honcho supremo of kothar, kothar and the present dai is the same. Everything that kothar does is with sanctions of the dai. So let’s come out of your delusion and escapist faith you are clinging on to.

Kothar is present in all eras. Not everyone listens to the Da'i. We don't live in a perfect world.

[truth seeker100]

mr zinger how exactly am I supposed to ask you for proof?? you did shy away, I asked you for proof about dai and imam and you did not provide it, that is called shying away.

[truth seeker100]

A suitable title for the thread can be : Predicament or Dilemma of Bohras or Abdes

Maxthemature is not new in the breed of abdes to justify SMS or Kothari enterprise. There are thousands or million of abdes who have no idea what they are defending. Negative emotions are far more easy to express then positive ones. So to express their love for SMS, it is far more easy to abuse others who do not confirm to their way of maula worship.

An intelligent discussion amongst abdes is a competition of who and how loves the maula more than the other. In this race of abdes, kothar is the winner pocketing the wealth of abdes, while they are busy running outdoing each other.

Abdes like these are too scared to step out of their well and acknowledge the fact that there is a wide beautiful world with diversity and tolerance and most important of all common sense exist. They actually believe the bureaucratic management of life after death and kothar its administrators.

In some of the sabaks I have attended, I was appalled listening to the Kothari mullahs, the impunity and boldness with which they throw bullshit at the abdes is surprising to hilarious and these abdes lap it up with awe and admiration. Mullahs goes on unchallenged with his blasphemous theories.

An interesting theory promoted by a Kothari mullah; after drumming up the emotions of abdes by some fake sob sob pile on sympathy for “aqa maula” , he urged abdes to buy heaven by making maula happy by giving ziyafats !

“maula jannat na zaameen che ! aavo aavo mumino… jannat khareedi lo ! maula ne khush kari lo… imam Hussein no maatam kari lo ! roza, namaaz ni paabandi kari lo, WAJEBAAT faakhir ma faakhir aapo ! ZIYAFAT aapo ! maula Ghana khush thaai che ! “
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am no great guy to pass judgements about others, but a word of support for Zinger ! he is civilized and courteous in discussions, expressing his thoughts honestly, however they are complex or contradictory. However zinger has always been vocal and logical about calling spade a spade at the same time he expressed his affiliation and affection towards Kothar clergy. It is not surprising to see many people go through similar dilemmas and beat themselves hard to keep their faith in kothar, on which they have been bought up. The only sense of spirituality they have experienced is in the cocoon of bohra community.

Affiliation and affection? Really?
I'm shocked.. i didnt know hating the kothar is considered as "affiliation and affection"... are you sure you haven't mixed me up with someone else?

Like i mentioned once before, the only thing i dispense freely to the Kothar is my contempt and disdain

My faith by the way, is in Allah, RasulAllah (SAW), Maula Ali, Imams and Dai's (uptil Burhanuddin Maula RA), certainly not the jokers who make up the Kothar

and again can you show proof about your imam and dai?? don't shy away this time

[MUSTAPH]

In my opinion these religious fanatics can be directly compared to the Pherons who after showing clear signs by the Prophet Moosa alai issalam clearly refuse to see any other view than what they are brainwashed.

What say?

[zinger]

mr zinger how exactly am I supposed to ask you for proof?? you did shy away, I asked you for proof about dai and imam and you did not provide it, that is called shying away.

try as much as you want. but i said it then, i say it again. this is a Dawoodi Bohra forum. you and your like are allowed here because admin is happy allowing people to slander the faith under the guise of democracy but that does not mean i need to respond to you

@ admin, no hard feelings. i know you its difficult maintaining this site but sometimes, i wonder where your true interests lie. you allow the Dawoodi Bohra faith to be mocked. fine, thats your prerogative, this being a reformist bohra site and all, but your open leniency to people abusing the Shia faith is what makes me wonder

[MUSTAPH]

Zinger
Its nice to know that you like to respect other people's Faith but than why does this question not arise when in full mosque we criticize other religions and Faith.

You are to proud to be a dawoodi bohra first, Shia next, and a Muslim after that don't you think you should be in reverse order. Ask any one in India and it's said Muslim eid, bohra eid or muslim mosque,
bohra mosque. Why are we dawoodi bohra not considered Muslims. Why have our leaders segregated us from our real roots.
The most vague answer for this is we are on right path n they are not. Please grow up,the path which was laid in another land by another tribe in another language today they are not on that path but we the converts of mere 400 years are all correct?

[truth seeker100]

mr zinger how exactly am I supposed to ask you for proof?? you did shy away, I asked you for proof about dai and imam and you did not provide it, that is called shying away.

try as much as you want. but i said it then, i say it again. this is a Dawoodi Bohra forum. you and your like are allowed here because admin is happy allowing people to slander the faith under the guise of democracy but that does not mean i need to respond to you

@ admin, no hard feelings. i know you its difficult maintaining this site but sometimes, i wonder where your true interests lie. you allow the Dawoodi Bohra faith to be mocked. fine, thats your prerogative, this being a reformist bohra site and all, but your open leniency to people abusing the Shia faith is what makes me wonder

zinger you are showing your true colors. you are just like any other blind abde who is a slave of muffu and cannot provide proof when asked. you are a coward and a looser. I suggest you stop making excuses and show me some proof

[chocoman]

try as much as you want. but i said it then, i say it again. this is a Dawoodi Bohra forum. you and your like are allowed here because admin is happy allowing people to slander the faith under the guise of democracy but that does not mean i need to respond to you

@ admin, no hard feelings. i know you its difficult maintaining this site but sometimes, i wonder where your true interests lie. you allow the Dawoodi Bohra faith to be mocked. fine, thats your prerogative, this being a reformist bohra site and all, but your open leniency to people abusing the Shia faith is what makes me wonder

zinger you are showing your true colors. you are just like any other blind abde who is a slave of muffu and cannot provide proof when asked. you are a coward and a looser. I suggest you stop making excuses and show me some proof

Truth seeker (Loser). I just Dont understand, why are you ranting like a mad cow about your belief. The knowledge for your stance is limited by the people who talk to you, so you decided to pick up on Zinger.

It is to be understood that I am not supporting Zinger but certain instances should be paid heed to where Zinger was brave enough to admit the fallacies of bohra system. I respect you because it takes courage to break from status quo, because its not easy. As I have felt the same, whereas this ungrateful loser has been nothing except a mere disturbance making fun of people on this forum and mocking shia beliefs. Then again, I consider it is acceptable because this is what these low life tafkiris are only best at. But, I lost it when this loser (truthseeker) was defending an evil organisation like ISIS. If the actions of ISIS are perhaps a part of your faith, I rather stick to mine.

Hey truthseeker, you take pride in your beliefs, but I'm sure you'll be the first one to pee in your pants, if any one who is well versed in science would ask you any questions in regards to Islam demanding proof of the legitimate of various stories based on the mojizas of prophet Mohammad. Perhaps, FAITH IS BLIND!!!!!

I ask everyone, if any of the reformists are concerned with the reform movement, if you want the reform movement to succeed there should be a reform amongst ourselves, where these low lifers should be thrown out, these 'loosers' have nothing to contribute in the reform movement except being a typical distraction.

[truth seeker100]

chcoman please show me when I was defending Isis??? and I'm not making fun of shia Islam, Only thing I am against is these fake fatemi beliefs. if you are so confident about your fatemi beliefs then I ask you to show me proof. I hope you are not like zinger, and shy away when asked for proof. show me proof then we will see who the real looser is

[chocoman]

Dont let me force you to lick your own spit. You know it very well. I even replied you on that. BTW what proof do you want? Isn't following nabi (S.A.W) enough? Why are you acting such a fickle minded acting as an obstruction between Muslims to unite?

Most of them over here are laymen who are fighting their own battles against kothar, they are not here to give you a crash course about Fatimid beliefs. I myself would stay 100 miles far away from bigots like you who has the audacity to call others losers without any reasoning but at the same time dont even know how to spell that very word. This religion is in dire straits and badly needs some unity between Muslims. Alas, people like you, with ignorance who thinks who knowsneverything can get down in front and call names to others. This shows how cultured you are.

Most of the shias dont have any problem with your creed, what right does it give you to call their beliefs fake, this does emanate a lot animosity against people like you, or may be you are just ill-mannered with total disregard for other feelings. Just because some one doesn't know the answer of your question, doesn't mean that he's a 'looser'. I have posed so many questions about your beliefs but I've never got a direct answer, because 'lakum deenakum waliyadeen' is all that matters.

[truth seeker100]

chocoman I have no problem with shia beliefs. I have problems with you fatemi beliefs. show me proof of how imams are supposed to take us to heven?? show me proof. zinger and adam and the rest of the abdes have failed. now it's your turn. show me proof, don't shy away like the rest or you too will be a looser. and again can you show me where I was supporting Isis. don't make stupid comments without proof you looser

[chocoman]

Umm, looser, to tell you the truth I dont know. I've never studied the doctrines of fatemi beliefs, I'm overly concerned with doctrine of shias and the wilayat of imam Ali (A.S) and that was enough for me.I dont hold any liabilities to give you anything.

About the ISIS thing, you know it very well, moron, in some of the thread you had just replied an abde something against the muffaddal bs, in defence of associating your beliefs with Isis. I dont have time to scroll through all the thread just to give you an answer. I rather stick in answering on top of my head. Yes looser..........

[MUSTAPH]

Chocoman

You seem to be an explosive with any fire in it. You shout looser looser but cannot give any evidence of where one is a looser. You expect people to believe in what you believe or what is a fact. Your statement like you don't have time to find evidence but you have all the time to write long replies. Instead of writing long replies go to search and type Isis all the threads containing that word would show find the truthseekar post and prove it. No but like a typical abde you have time to point at others fault but no evidence to prove yourself and the best answer that worldwide abdes give like Maxthemature gave me "don't have time".

Look its the responsibility of the believers to prove the facts as there is a reason for the believer to believe but because there is no reason a non believer does not believe. You need to prove what is there,you cannot prove what is not there. So, kindly tell me what is the last dai or imams you believe and give me a reason to believe in him and together we shall try to find the path from where your and mine Faith differ. I don't believe in either of the two jokers as I like to play my cards with a pack of 52 only. If you believe in any of the jokers let's analyze does he need to be believed in.

[MUSTAPH]

Btw
Its "without any fire in it"

Typing mistake