In defence of the Silent Majority

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Critical_Thinker
Posts: 275
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:22 pm

Re: In defence of the Silent Majority

#121

Unread post by Critical_Thinker » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:15 pm

SBM wrote:
how could it be when we are all anonymous here.
Good question, why are you, my initials does represent my real name and many members are aware of it.
You being defender of Kothari Goons should not worry about any retribution while many from the other side of fold are afraid of retribution to their loved ones and many on this forum have suffered it and that is why they are anonymous.
Defender of kothari goons? Are you a psychopath or is this how you treat all new members to the forum?
Make your identity public, otherwise stop implying that other people are cowards when you are the biggest one yourself.
Do you have any proof of your claim that many on this forum have suffered retribution?
Apart from mr insaf, I doubt anybody here has revealed who they really are, so how could this happen?

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: In defence of the Silent Majority

#122

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:07 pm

Critical_Thinker wrote: Do you have any proof of your claim that many on this forum have suffered retribution?
Apart from mr insaf, I doubt anybody here has revealed who they really are, so how could this happen?
sister,

there is a simple mechanism here on this forum on the upper left hand side, you can use it to send private messages to members who have activated their PM function.

i personally know dozens of members of this forum as we have exchanged messages and eventually we felt emboldened and comfortable enough to talk with each other directly. many of them I have also met and socialise with. we have become a close knit family of sorts, many are more blood brothers than my own distant relatives.

i have been inspired by their strong wills, determination and courage in facing up to the tyrants. some are, due to various important constraints, still card carrying jamaat members, but many of them have upped and left this oppressive kufr-filled cult like myself. not all are a part of the reformist jamaats, just living on their own as 'muslims'. with no labels attached.

you are welcome too to pm me or any of the other members. you probably have your heart in the right place, but need a lot more information to re-align your focus. i urge you to do so.


SBM
Posts: 6238
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: In defence of the Silent Majority

#123

Unread post by SBM » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:31 pm

Br AZ
I think this Critical Thinker is none other than Matehist. If you see there postings they look very similar . Both of them accused me of my association with Anajmi and both despised this forum but both are very actively involved and both invoke WAHABI WAHABI at the drop of hat. Very eerie similarity....

maethist
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: In defence of the Silent Majority

#124

Unread post by maethist » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:52 pm

SBM wrote:Br AZ
I think this Critical Thinker is none other than Matehist. If you see there postings they look very similar . Both of them accused me of my association with Anajmi and both despised this forum but both are very actively involved and both invoke WAHABI WAHABI at the drop of hat. Very eerie similarity....
SBM,

You are a conspiracy-theorist's dream come true. I am Critical _Thinker's alter ego but in that role I go by the name Matheist.

Gosh, I see you drop a hat! WAHABI, WAHABI!

To be more accurate I did not accuse you of your association with Anajmi. You have yourself demonstrated to me that you, along with JC, are anajmi's boot-licker.

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: In defence of the Silent Majority

#125

Unread post by JC » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:15 pm

Maethist,

I am not a boot licker of anybody, I strongly agree with some, somewhat agree with some and disagree in the same fashion. Boot licking is a 'qualification' of abdes (and it is not restricted to boot licking only!). This is an Open forum; it is not a Kothari jamatkhana where you praise the Usurper 24/7 (or lick).

Critical_Thinker
Posts: 275
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:22 pm

Re: In defence of the Silent Majority

#126

Unread post by Critical_Thinker » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:52 pm

Al Zulfiqar wrote:
Critical_Thinker wrote: Do you have any proof of your claim that many on this forum have suffered retribution?
Apart from mr insaf, I doubt anybody here has revealed who they really are, so how could this happen?
sister,

there is a simple mechanism here on this forum on the upper left hand side, you can use it to send private messages to members who have activated their PM function.

i personally know dozens of members of this forum as we have exchanged messages and eventually we felt emboldened and comfortable enough to talk with each other directly. many of them I have also met and socialise with. we have become a close knit family of sorts, many are more blood brothers than my own distant relatives.

i have been inspired by their strong wills, determination and courage in facing up to the tyrants. some are, due to various important constraints, still card carrying jamaat members, but many of them have upped and left this oppressive kufr-filled cult like myself. not all are a part of the reformist jamaats, just living on their own as 'muslims'. with no labels attached.

you are welcome too to pm me or any of the other members. you probably have your heart in the right place, but need a lot more information to re-align your focus. i urge you to do so.

If they really do exist, then please ask these dozens of people who say you know, to tell their stories on the forum.
Everything is completely anonymous here so there is no need to hide behind private messages.
What is the point of having a public forum like this, if nobody is willing to speak publicly?
Surely this would make the place utterly insignificant wouldnt it al zulfiqar?

Critical_Thinker
Posts: 275
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:22 pm

Re: In defence of the Silent Majority

#127

Unread post by Critical_Thinker » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:54 pm

SBM wrote:Br AZ
I think this Critical Thinker is none other than Matehist. If you see there postings they look very similar . Both of them accused me of my association with Anajmi and both despised this forum but both are very actively involved and both invoke WAHABI WAHABI at the drop of hat. Very eerie similarity....
How ironic. Ive come to assume that you are really anajmi using a fake account, as is probably jc too.

Critical_Thinker
Posts: 275
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:22 pm

Re: In defence of the Silent Majority

#128

Unread post by Critical_Thinker » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:55 pm

JC wrote:Maethist,

I am not a boot licker of anybody, I strongly agree with some, somewhat agree with some and disagree in the same fashion. Boot licking is a 'qualification' of abdes (and it is not restricted to boot licking only!). This is an Open forum; it is not a Kothari jamatkhana where you praise the Usurper 24/7 (or lick).
Nor is it a wahhabi forum, so show respect to our shia origin and beliefs, or go back to ISIS where you belong.

maethist
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: In defence of the Silent Majority

#129

Unread post by maethist » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:57 pm

JC wrote:Maethist,

I am not a boot licker of anybody, I strongly agree with some, somewhat agree with some and disagree in the same fashion. Boot licking is a 'qualification' of abdes (and it is not restricted to boot licking only!). This is an Open forum; it is not a Kothari jamatkhana where you praise the Usurper 24/7 (or lick).
Then why do you always agree with your "Likes" when Prophet anajmi (SAW) veers off tangentially from the subject under discussion or when he presents quotes removed from the context in which they were made?

I am not convinced.

tasneempati
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:44 am

Re: In defence of the Silent Majority

#130

Unread post by tasneempati » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:17 am

I wish even 10-20 % of our fellow brothers/sisters understand this brilliant articles and come out boldly in the defence of the silent majority.
S. Insaf wrote:Dawoodi Bohras and Present Crises
In defence of the Silent Majority

Dawoodi Bohras are "Spineless Idiots".
That is the impression of many Muslim ulama who know them closely.
This remark is offending! Off course!
Shocking! Off course!
But they reason it out as follows:-
Dawoodi Bohras are Spineless - - Because they have no self-respect, willingly suffer insults, humiliation, beatings, exploitation, extortion and not only that, they themselves met out discard, insult and torture to their own blood relations.

Dawoodi Bohras are Idiots - Because they regularly pay their oppressors to strengthen their power. Even educated, well-placed, wealthy and influential Bohras rather than raising their voice against these evils they throw parties and sing praises for their exploitators and extortionists.

The Dawoodi Bohras’ Scholarly Analysis concludes that:-

1. The strange submissiveness of Dawoodi Bohras is due to the nature of their religious authority and doctrines they follow.

2. This is because of sense of belonging, as Bohras are historically a highly well knit community. Most Dawoodi Bohras fall in line for fear of social boycott (Baraat) for fear of losing the sense of belonging?

3. This is because Bohras are a treading community and they value peace above all and do not want to indulge in social and religious conflicts.

4. Majority of Bohras are orthodox and rigid due to their cultural practices and family upbringing. Very few are liberal and open-minded due to the emergence of university education and professionalism.

5. Dawoodi Bohras vehemently revere Hazrat Ali ibne Ibi Talib and Imam Husain ibne Ali who suffered intensively but fought against tyranny and injustice till they were martyred.
Unfortunately in last 100 years the Bohra priesthood has intentionally emphasized on exaggerated narration of victimization of these martyrs and their exemplary passion instead of exploring their bold and uncompromised struggle against oppression and injustice. The victimization of Ahle-Bayt is so much glorified that the mourners take pried in suffering victimization and they have become coward.

6. Dawoodi Bohras are constantly fed the totally distorted information about their religious doctrines with a view to reinforce authority of Dai and his administration legitimizing authoritarian power structure. The sermons deliver during Moharram were totally controlled by Dai's family, but now that had has been stopped and Dawoodi Bohra are forced to listen a single sermon by Dai relayed all over.

7. Right from childhood emphasis on all respect and privileges to Dai, his family and his agents, above others in the community and never never question them however stupid they are.

8. The tight control over the community by their priests to safeguard their vested interests and a definite source of regular inflow of huge wealth for Dai.

9. The tremendous financial contribution in pounds and dollars by NRI Bohras settled in foreign countries has made the Dai and his family members more powerful and arrogant.
10. Ever since Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb started withholding the dissemination of the knowledge of Islam and the fatemid history and other literary gems of the faith, the Ulema class in the community has been completely eliminated. The "keepers of the community’s treasures of the knowledge do not do anything apart from the "blowing their own trumpets”.
The causes of present dispute:-
According to the doctrines of Dawoodi Bohra faith it is the duty and the responsibility of each Dai to openly announce his successor Dai in his life time, with inspiration from hidden Imam. But Sayedna Mohammad Burhanuddin Saheb failed in his duty, though he spent a longest life-time than any other Bohra Dai.
Unimaginable huge surplus money and constant inflow of ample fund, created its usual problem in Dai’s family. The desire of control over the huge ill-gotten wealth and power. “Existence and Inspiration of hidden Imam” has taken a back seat and now it is left to the law court or Mumineen to decide.
What can be done now to save the situation?:-
It is foregone conclusion that if Court’s decision goes in favour of one claimant the other claimant would surely appeal to the Supreme Court and the case would drag on for years.
Still this generation (it may be the last generation) of Dawoodi Bohras that is lucky that it still have few scholars of Islam and Fatimid literature and history, like Prof. Ismail Poonawala and Prof. Abbas Hamdani.
Prof. Ismail Poonawala has already conveyed to the Bombay High Court, by a separate submission through Central Board of Dawoodi Bohra Community, and rightly so, that:-
“As a result of present dispute, only the Dawoodi Bohra community is affected and non else, it is only just and proper that it must have a say in the appointment / selection of a right person as its leader and spiritual guide. It should not be left to the arbitrary whims of an individual as it’s the current practice. For the last 175 years the succession has been monopolized within one family. The predecessor appoints either his brother or son as successor irrespective of his merits or qualifications to lead the community. By a right person I mean the most pious, most learned and the best qualified as per the qualifications criteria elaborated above. 
How should it be determined that a person is the right person to lead the community and be its spiritual guide? I suggest that it should be left to the good sense of the community. Either through a direct referendum or an indirect process. The referendum can be supervised  by an election commission similar to the Election Commission of India. It is not difficult to constitute such a commission. It can be a 7 or 11 member body selected from the most qualified persons of the community. For example the former chief justice of India, Hon. Justice Ahmadi could head such a Commission. I respectfully beg to submit that it is not an easy task or a quick-fix solution. It will take time. It is high time, however, that steps must be taken now to safeguard   the interest of the community now and in future.” – Ismail Poonawala

It is matter of pride that well-wisher intellectuals of the community have started thinking and acting on these lines. The first-ever survey of its kind among the Dawoodi Bohras was conducted online by an anonymous group between February and August this 2014 year.
As it the present split in Dai’s family has created a lot of turmoil and uncertainty in the community. The Dawoodi Bohra Community is highly suppressed community and there is no culture of discussion and no openness for expressing one’s feelings. The members of the community are not free even to name their children as per their likeness. They just follow the dictates of their exploitative masters. However agitated they may be but fear the consequences of speaking their minds. So the only alternative was an online survey, though it was restricted to the Bohras who were educated and computer literate. The internet gave a forum however limited it was it gave anonymity to the respondents.
The survey's findings blow the myth of a cohesive, united community unquestioningly devoted to its spiritual head. This is the first time the closed and tightly controlled community has given vent to its feelings on the conduct of those who control it.
This Survey points out that:-
66% of Dawoodi Bohras feel confused, spiritually paralyzed or betrayed by the split in the community's spiritual leadership.

23% of them are staying on in the community out of faith;

for the rest, family, cultural identity or fear are compelling them to do so.

38% have given their oath of allegiance to the new spiritual head freely; the rest did so reluctantly.

64% are against the uttering of laanat and declaring a social boycott on members of the community. This practice has been adopted by supporters of the current head Muffadal Saifuddin, to denounce those who do not support him.
The trickiest question was; which of the two rival claimants did the respondents accept? This was an optional question, and 266 respondents answered it. Of them, only 32% accepted Muffadal Saifuddin, as the Syedna's successor, while 46% supported the Syedna's brother, Khuzaima Qutbuddin.

The practice of uttering curses was felt as a new low for the community. Only 3.5% had no problem with the practice.
36% of the respondents were from the Indian subcontinent,

88% of them were graduates or postgraduates,

73 % were men.
This survey beyond boubt proves that Bohras are niether spineless nor idiots, they are terribly afraid and supressed, they would speak out their minds once a safe forum given to them. Let us give voice to the supressed and silent majority of Bohras.
This survey is a future road map to choose a right person as its leader and spiritual guide.
Lets hope the Bombay High Court or any other law agency does a through and all inclusive survey as suggested by learned professor Ismail bhai Poonawala.

alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: In defence of the Silent Majority

#131

Unread post by alam » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:45 pm

The defense of the silent majority, as posted by S, insaaf is problematic because he mixed in so many points - the most controversial one being the Poonawala comment about election/referendum for dai. The silent majority according to that survey report did not deal with this issue. S. insaaf post got buried because it ignited way too many charcoals lying dormant - and people here on this forum don't need much by way of fuel to light another fire of distraction away from the blaze of anger and frustration raging in their minds and hearts - and so they attack one another by namecalling and putting people in boxes of Wahhabi/Sunni/reformist/abde/diehard/brainwashed. .. Which on occassion I too may have fallen in the trap.

The real winners in all this is the enemy that EVERYONE wants to destroy: The enemy being:
Injustice
Oppression
Extortion
Verbal abuse includes laanuts, but namecalling as well,
Hijacking of imaan in the name of Religion.
To name a few, without namecalling

This is what is happening here on this forum, while the enemy is winning.
Do I sound like a broken record?