Ashara 1436 Surat

[adna_mumin]

I heard from a friend that today a wild claim was made in the majlis.

Some comments will help.

That Prophet Adam AS was not the first human had a father and mother and was born in Sri Lanka! Weird tawil was presented. Well this contradicts all Christianity, Judaism and Islam. Where are they heading with the community!

It does not contradict Islam at all nor is it new. In our bayaan this has forever been heard that Nabi Adam SA is different from Adam (who is referred as Adam ul kulli). This is actually the correct stand that is consistent with Science of today.

[canadian]

^
adna_mumin:

Pardon my ignorance. What does "ul kulli" mean?

[adna_mumin]

This term is used to refer to the First of (All, Universal) Adam.
Nothing to pardon brother; glad to have helped.

[canadian]

^
Thank you, bro.

[Biradar]

I heard from a friend that today a wild claim was made in the majlis.

Some comments will help.

That Prophet Adam AS was not the first human had a father and mother and was born in Sri Lanka! Weird tawil was presented. Well this contradicts all Christianity, Judaism and Islam. Where are they heading with the community!

It does not contradict Islam at all nor is it new. In our bayaan this has forever been heard that Nabi Adam SA is different from Adam (who is referred as Adam ul kulli). This is actually the correct stand that is consistent with Science of today.

Which and what science are you talking about? No claim which religions make about the structure, origin of the universe or the nature of physical reality is true. Religions may have something valuable to say about ethics and morality, but not about physics or biology.

In any case, in Ismaili cosmogony the ages of the world are divided into cycles. Each cycle is inaugurated by an "Adam". He is not the First Adam, who by definition, had no parents. The Adam of each era, obviously, was one among many people alive and living at that time. Hence, as everyone else he had parents. The story of Iblis not prostrating to Adam is a symbolic one, in this scheme.

It is quite clear why the partisans of Mr. Muffadul bring this story up. They are claiming that S. Qutbuddin is like Iblis who refused to accept the position of Adam, who they claim is Mr Muffi (LA). Iblis claimed that he was trained and was a high dignitary in the dawaat of the last Imam of the previous cycle, and hence did not need to accept the position of Adam.

The whole analogy is of course false and does not apply in this situation. First, SMB (RA) did not end an era. The last Imam of the era ended an era and sharia, and his successor Imam went into seclusion. Adam was not a mustaqar Imam, but only mustawda. If we were to really apply this analogy, what this would mean is that the real successor of SMB (RA) is secret and in seclusion, and Mr. Muffi is not him. Of course, Mr Muffi (LA) will use any tricks to discredit S Qutbuddin. He has been doing this for decades now, even when his own father was alive.

So, by analogy Mr Muffi is the real Iblis and his followers, the Iblisi Toli. In fact, one can claim that SMB (RA) asked and ordered Muffi (Iblis) to bow down in front of Adam (SKQ), but Muffi refused, becoming a rebel and deserving of hell, despite being born of such distinguished parents. Now, as the cosmic Iblis, he is leading a vast swath of people astray. Analogies work both ways.

[Ozdundee]

I heard from a friend that today a wild claim was made in the majlis.

Some comments will help.

That Prophet Adam AS was not the first human had a father and mother and was born in Sri Lanka! Weird tawil was presented. Well this contradicts all Christianity, Judaism and Islam. Where are they heading with the community!

It does not contradict Islam at all nor is it new. In our bayaan this has forever been heard that Nabi Adam SA is different from Adam (who is referred as Adam ul kulli). This is actually the correct stand that is consistent with Science of today.

So the Prophet Adam SAW mentioned by Bohra ideology born in Sri Lanka is a different person to Adam and Eve AS we all know that was mentioned in the Quran.

I have not asked whether what the Quran says about Adam AS is scientifically justified. That is a different topic.

[Ozdundee]

And this Adam Kulli history , what is the source ? Just because it makes sense does not mean it is true or valid

Was it someone's imagination or from a scripture predating Christ Jesus As

It is not Arabian philosophy for sure, it sounds mythology. It may have logic but to throw it in public so loosely is unprofessional and manipulative

[haqniwaat]

What is he doing?!!

[haqniwaat]

Mufaddal the First or has he stolen Cinderella's carriage?!

[Tahermakka]

Just heard waez from syedna Mufaddal and I must say he has improved a lot, in fact very impressive.

many new riwayat and ilmi wato was discussed
he asked people to do khair and other good advices regarding business and ethics
no repetitive bayans
no self boasting


over all good 3 hours spent and lastly shadat bayan was also jazbati and up to the point.

I give him 9 out of 10

still it can be improved gradually.

[HMALAK]

The Bayaans of Mufaddal BS has increase probably manifolds quality wise. There were stories and Bayaans which I had heard first time.
But I saw one thing consistently the attacks were made on the opposite indirectly with the help of some points in the ongoing Bayaans.
And another thing which is to be noted that Imam Hussain's Zikr is done only for 45 to 60 minutes and the remaining time is spent praising the previous two Duats which is sometimes boring.

In all, a good bayaan to hear...

[hakimja]

hakimja,

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it is clear that the saifee mahal advtg and publicity/public relations whiz kids have paid for this so-called 'magazine', which is nothing but a rag sheet to hype their 'lord of the worlds' mufatlal and his fantastic kufr-filled achievements, such as riding in a white a/c cinderella carriage, travelling on trains and being treated to (orchestrated) maatamic, orgasmic, frenzied receptions by hordes of hysterical abdes/amtes, ziyafats on the train, massive salaams, emphasising his lofty and impossible-to-reach status etc.

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Zulfikar, thanks for your information, but i came to know from a source that its not magazine. its indo gulf times newspaper. and its owner is some bohra or muslim fellow.... many times tht owner presents also paper in events. but i am shocked to see their materials and information, how do they get so much information and things which even our community magazines doesnt have lyk badre ..... !!! and i am amazed that how vast is their network, wot shocked me more is tht not in india, but my relatives and frnds takes tht paper in other countries too like london dubai kuwait! ... as u said abt media ant.. i enquired but found that its just advt agency of tht paper like many others, they said its owner must me is from mumbai or dubai and they deal with managers only and dont know much apart from advts.!! do share if u get any more details.. or share if u have any copy of that paper. i tried getting one but cudnt find as its out of stock. i got one pic wil share tht on group soon.thanks for ur info.

[WiththenameofAllah]

Hi informers, what new bayan was done today about Moulatuna sakina A.S ?

[Sceptical]

still it can be improved gradually.

Funny. So Burhanuddin Mola (RA) did nass and exalted to the highest rutbah an amateur?

About two hours of indirect allusions on SKQ
"Dushmano case kare che, apne nahi"
"Court ma hargiz na jawu joye mumeen hoy to"
"SMB na janaza ma na awa to mohabat aj noti ne"
... the same stupid rhetoric, but with a better oratory quality, indeed.

The Dai-in-formation improved himself !

Then, a speech on "Halal no vepar" ( I know some people who paid 100 000 $ for ziafat who are not doing Halal no vepar actually )

After that, he did a long bayaan on the gulam of Ali Akbar bin Husain (AS), who was decapitated by Yazid because he mourned the loss of his master.
I've never heard this zikar before : is this a new innovation from SMS, like the talking horse of Imam Husain (AS)?


And yeeees, some lanaat during a madeh during a specific reference to the "dawedaar"

[admirer]

Some thoughts to ponder:
People are praising today's waaz of Mufaddal Moula (MS). That it was a shandaar bayaan. My takes are:
1. It was a brilliant attempt to emotionally black mail the gullible bohras and prove that Khuzema BS(KQ) is a sinner. There was a madeh cursing the Dawedaar. Like seriously?!?!
2. After that MS mentioned that we should think before we speak and not hurt other mumin. Oh ya! Were the kotaris and bohris listening? Whatever happened to these ilm na moti when they were praying laanat on KQ.
3. MS said that to remain on top you don't need to take any wrong measures. Halaal ni kamai hovi joey. Asli daulat to imam uz zamaan na kadmon ma chhe. Why is the loot of money going on then?
4. He said that imam Hussain AS did dua for all mumin in sajda. But he went on to say that only who does mohabbat of dai will get salvation. what about other shias who believe in imam Hussain AS. ?

Today's waaz was Every bit self contradictory. Clearly the Bohra clergy and kothar do not practice what they preach!

[Akhtiar Wahid]

Muffadal Saifuddin is Narender Modi of Dawoodi bohras!
100 baar jhuth bolengay toh sach ban jaega!

[Tahermakka]

Some thoughts to ponder:
People are praising today's waaz of Mufaddal Moula (MS). That it was a shandaar bayaan. My takes are:
1. It was a brilliant attempt to emotionally black mail the gullible bohras and prove that Khuzema BS(KQ) is a sinner. There was a madeh cursing the Dawedaar. Like seriously?!?!
2. After that MS mentioned that we should think before we speak and not hurt other mumin. Oh ya! Were the kotaris and bohris listening? Whatever happened to these ilm na moti when they were praying laanat on KQ.
3. MS said that to remain on top you don't need to take any wrong measures. Halaal ni kamai hovi joey. Asli daulat to imam uz zamaan na kadmon ma chhe. Why is the loot of money going on then?
4. He said that imam Hussain AS did dua for all mumin in sajda. But he went on to say that only who does mohabbat of dai will get salvation. what about other shias who believe in imam Hussain AS. ?

Today's waaz was Every bit self contradictory. Clearly the Bohra clergy and kothar do not practice what they preach!

off course every thing was self contradictory and sorry to say I am sure KQ waiez will be of no different, because this whole family is self contradictory, but when it comes to improvement, syedna mufaddal has improved a bit. so lets acknowledge it.

[salaar]

The waiz that the dai delivers is always the best compilation so that it remains the center of attraction and should have an upper hand then the rest, secondly in ouyoon ul akhbaar by Syedna Idrees Imaduddin there are so many different accounts and detailed shahadat of Imam Hussain is given, so much detail is given that is amazing, some of the shahadat details which we hear in shia majalis is also there but only two or three accounts are released every year and that is definitely new for ordinary bohras. These details are are added every year to give the bayan of dai a different touch. For instance I give you a clue hasanybody heard of Syedna Bashir a.s I am sure only those who knows history knows about him but in the future bayans you might hear about him.

[Tahermakka]

off course every thing was self contradictory and sorry to say I am sure KQ waiez will be of no different, because this whole family is self contradictory, but when it comes to improvement, syedna mufaddal has improved a bit. so lets acknowledge it.

The whole dawoodi Bohra faith is self contradictory

[Sceptical]

About two hours of indirect allusions on SKQ
"Dushmano case kare che, apne nahi"
"Court ma hargiz na jawu joye mumeen hoy to"
"SMB na janaza ma na awa to mohabat aj noti ne"
... the same stupid rhetoric, but with a better oratory quality, indeed.

The Dai-in-formation improved himself !

Then, a speech on "Halal no vepar" ( I know some people who paid 100 000 $ for ziafat who are not doing Halal no vepar actually )

After that, he did a long bayaan on the gulam of Ali Akbar bin Husain (AS), who was decapitated by Yazid because he mourned the loss of his master.
I've never heard this zikar before : is this a new innovation from SMS, like the talking horse of Imam Husain (AS)?


And yeeees, some lanaat during a madeh during a specific reference to the "dawedaar"

and I forget the whole "rumal" - "Kapru" - "kurta" of SMB(ra)/STS(ra) drama by SMS

[Tahermakka]

and I forget the whole "rumal" - "Kapru" - "kurta" of SMB(ra)/STS(ra) drama by SMS

he did this because KQ never miss any chance to show off his ring which was gifted by syendna taher saifuddin, so he was just trying to show how many things he posses from previous dais.

[Al Zulfiqar]

tahermatka,

you would have a very bright future on abde chamchagiri sites like maalumat, zeninfo etc. here your talents and fidagiri for your allah on earth mufatlal is totally wasted. besides, you are here without raza and not doing maatam in surat. shame on you..!!

[haqniwaat]

and I forget the whole "rumal" - "Kapru" - "kurta" of SMB(ra)/STS(ra) drama by SMS

he did this because KQ never miss any chance to show off his ring which was gifted by syendna taher saifuddin, so he was just trying to show how many things he posses from previous dais.

Really, Tahermakhi?! Let it be known that many people related to Syedna Burhanuddin RA have many things like rumal, kapru, etc., and even from STS! So muffy is just trying to impress the ignorant - who think that he himself only possesses such possessions! Oh, so that proves that nass was definitely done on Muffy! Get a brain!!

[fustrate_Bohra]

Just recd message along with audio that in todays waaz sms was very angry with skq saheb and he showed his anger for 8 to 10 mins.

[kimanumanu]

Yes I heard a snippet too and he was back to his angry self.

It does a raise a question - if they regarded former Mazoon as an "enemy" and yet Syedna Burhanuddin RA kept him in his rutba, what were they intending to do after his wafat? Surely they must have had it planned given that immediately after they started bringing all the skeletons from out of the closet. The audio from today confirmed that as he mentioned hints of some things Mazoon did but would not go into details.

[Akhtiar Wahid]

Hip hip hurray.......target bullseye....anger and ferociousness means they are losing this matter of nass clear cut.

[UnhappyBohra]

One wonders why a man who has 99% of the following in his clutches cannot forgive, forget and move on. His anger is so distasteful. Why lash out in this manner at a small following that has clearly been punished enough by their fellow brothers and sisters. Yes he has a right to be bitter about the children but I believe that if he had been a good and kind grandfather and a true follower of Burhanuddin Moula, the children would never have left and neither would have the daughter-in-law. SKQ certainly was not offering them oodles of luxuries, mega homes and platoons of servants. Why is it that he was never able to win over his daughter-in-law and his grandchildren? I bet he is now trying to woo them back with money and luxuries, I hope they have better sense than to succumb!

[think_for_yourself]

One wonders why a man who has 99% of the following in his clutches cannot forgive, forget and move on. His anger is so distasteful. Why lash out in this manner at a small following that has clearly been punished enough by their fellow brothers and sisters. Yes he has a right to be bitter about the children but I believe that if he had been a good and kind grandfather and a true follower of Burhanuddin Moula, the children would never have left and neither would have the daughter-in-law. SKQ certainly was not offering them oodles of luxuries, mega homes and platoons of servants. Why is it that he was never able to win over his daughter-in-law and his grandchildren? I bet he is now trying to woo them back with money and luxuries, I hope they have better sense than to succumb!

Despite being a wishy washy fence sitter, you certainly make some astute observations. MS' guilty conscience over usurping SKQ's position will never allow him to be free of the demons that haunt him. When you spin lies of this nature you pay with your peace and tranquility. SKQ certainly has the peace and tranquility that MS seems to have lost.

[UnhappyBohra]

One wonders why a man who has 99% of the following in his clutches cannot forgive, forget and move on. His anger is so distasteful. Why lash out in this manner at a small following that has clearly been punished enough by their fellow brothers and sisters. Yes he has a right to be bitter about the children but I believe that if he had been a good and kind grandfather and a true follower of Burhanuddin Moula, the children would never have left and neither would have the daughter-in-law. SKQ certainly was not offering them oodles of luxuries, mega homes and platoons of servants. Why is it that he was never able to win over his daughter-in-law and his grandchildren? I bet he is now trying to woo them back with money and luxuries, I hope they have better sense than to succumb!

Despite being a wishy washy fence sitter, you certainly make some astute observations. MS' guilty conscience over usurping SKQ's position will never allow him to be free of the demons that haunt him. When you spin lies of this nature you pay with your peace and tranquility. SKQ certainly has the peace and tranquility that MS seems to have lost.

He is a sore winner. People hate sore winners worse than they hate sore losers..

[SKQ Fan]

I heard the Snippet too ( it is spreading like wild fire on Whats Up ) Seems MS went off script and let loose his frustration at being unable to stifle Sayedna' Qutbuddin's movement . We are being ostracized and censured enough by his followers and him adding fuel to fire does not seem to make sense . He clearly is back to his raving and ranting ways and his spin doctors will have a tough time undoing the damage done to his credibility, by this latest outburst. Grow up MS and try to behave like your Father Burhanuddin Moula, in actions, just by trying to look like him and evoking nostalgic memories of him at every opportunity is not going to help with the court case, or getting your grand children to acknowledge you.