Ashara 1436 Surat

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
salaar
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:36 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#331

Unread post by salaar » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:22 am

Sometimes typing thru cell phone we hurriedly commit many grammatical mistake like in the last reply it should be intending. Pls excuse and ignore

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 607
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#332

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:40 pm

Saif53 wrote:
haqniwaat wrote:The eloquent, to-the-point, "thanda kaleja", and soft-spoken reply of Shehzada Taher Bhaisaheb to Shehzada Mufaddal Bhaisaheb - attached video.
TQ's "thanda Kaleja" points have been discussed and refuted in this site. TQ gives wrong historical references!
You think we are stupid to go to some MS dawat sponsored site to discuss MS?! You have to be kidding me!

Saif53
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#333

Unread post by Saif53 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:49 pm

Who's telling you to discuss?
You can just go and read about KQ clans lies!

kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#334

Unread post by kimanumanu » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:54 pm

Do also visit this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10277 to hear the lies that were spoken at Raudat Tahera.

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 607
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#335

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:02 pm

Saif53 wrote:Who's telling you to discuss?
You can just go and read about KQ clans lies!
You think we are stupid to believe MS sponsored crap against SKQ?!! You've got to be kidding me! Even the name of the site is a bl*&^y lie !! You think we are stupid to believe the content?! Save your lies for the takhat! There are thousands thronging your masjids and lapping up every lie vomitted out by your fake dai.

Saif53
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#336

Unread post by Saif53 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:37 pm

UnhappyBohra wrote:
Saif53 wrote:Who's telling you to discuss?
You can just go and read about KQ clans lies!
You think we are stupid to believe MS sponsored crap against SKQ?!! You've got to be kidding me! Even the name of the site is a bl*&^y lie !! You think we are stupid to believe the content?! Save your lies for the takhat! There are thousands thronging your masjids and lapping up every lie vomitted out by your fake dai.
The Content is provided from Dawat books such as Uyun al Akbar.
TQ says Imam Mansoor wasn't present at Imam Qaims Janaza.
Infact, Uyun al Akhbar says the exact opposite. That Imam Mansoor WAS PRESENT at Imam Qaim's Janaza.

If you don't want to believe the site, that's your choice.
But if you choose TQ's words over Syedna Idris Imaduddin's Uyun al Akhbar, then you're the "stupid" one my friend.
And you should re-evaluate your claim of being a Dawoodi Bohra.

I forgot, you're an "unhappy" one. :)

Sceptical
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#337

Unread post by Sceptical » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:15 pm

can someone confirm, please, with a quote from Uyun al Akbar that Imam Mansur AS was present ?
I don't trust to blogs with deceptive domain names, like "believesyednaqutbuddin" etc...

Adam
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#338

Unread post by Adam » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:00 pm

Sceptical wrote:can someone confirm, please, with a quote from Uyun al Akbar that Imam Mansur AS was present ?
I don't trust to blogs with deceptive domain names, like "believesyednaqutbuddin" etc...
Uyun al Akhbar - Syedna Idris - Volume 5.
Chapter of 13th Imam, Imam Mansoor AS
(First Paragraph)

... Imam Qaim passed away during the time that Dajjal had captured Qarwaan and African towns... due to the on going war, Imam Mansoor buried him in private and expressed his deep sorrow...

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 607
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#339

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:15 pm

Saif53 wrote:
UnhappyBohra wrote: You think we are stupid to believe MS sponsored crap against SKQ?!! You've got to be kidding me! Even the name of the site is a bl*&^y lie !! You think we are stupid to believe the content?! Save your lies for the takhat! There are thousands thronging your masjids and lapping up every lie vomitted out by your fake dai.
The Content is provided from Dawat books such as Uyun al Akbar.
TQ says Imam Mansoor wasn't present at Imam Qaims Janaza.
Infact, Uyun al Akhbar says the exact opposite. That Imam Mansoor WAS PRESENT at Imam Qaim's Janaza.

If you don't want to believe the site, that's your choice.
But if you choose TQ's words over Syedna Idris Imaduddin's Uyun al Akhbar, then you're the "stupid" one my friend.
And you should re-evaluate your claim of being a Dawoodi Bohra.

I forgot, you're an "unhappy" one. :)
Would love to see the quote from Uyun where this claim is made.

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 607
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#340

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:33 pm

Adam wrote:
Sceptical wrote:can someone confirm, please, with a quote from Uyun al Akbar that Imam Mansur AS was present ?
I don't trust to blogs with deceptive domain names, like "believesyednaqutbuddin" etc...
Uyun al Akhbar - Syedna Idris - Volume 5.
Chapter of 13th Imam, Imam Mansoor AS
(First Paragraph)

... Imam Qaim passed away during the time that Dajjal had captured Qarwaan and African towns... due to the on going war, Imam Mansoor buried him in private and expressed his deep sorrow...
Was it not imam Mansoor who was fighting against Dajjal? Did he leave the battle field and come to bury him? I have read accounts that he wrote letters that imam Mansoor's death be kept a secret until the war was over. If he was writing letters with these instructions he was not showing up was he? Can you give the Arabic quote?

Once again you are latching on to one word, one sentence that is not necessarily a fact. When we say Obama went to war, you know we do not mean that Obama wore fatigues and and boots and went to the battlefield. You know he only gave the command for the war. Siilarly with imam Qaim's burial. Adam, you've got nothing bro.

Regardless, there were a number of other incidents where duat mutlaqeen did not show up when previous duat passed away. I see that you conveniently did not choose to refute them because they are true.

Adam
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#341

Unread post by Adam » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:08 pm

I was just providing information for the link provided earlier.
The arguments made there clarify that Taher is giving false information in his speeches.

Uyun al Akhbar is very clear that Imam Mansoor was in the Capital City at the time of Imam Qaim's death, and personally carried out his Dafan (the book mentions his name in the singular tense).
These is no record of a "letter" being sent in either of the two books mentioned.



Crater Lake
Posts: 349
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:46 pm

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#342

Unread post by Crater Lake » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:20 pm

Adam wrote:I was just providing information for the link provided earlier.
The arguments made there clarify that Taher is giving false information in his speeches.

Uyun al Akhbar is very clear that Imam Mansoor was in the Capital City at the time of Imam Qaim's death, and personally carried out his Dafan (the book mentions his name in the singular tense).
These is no record of a "letter" being sent in either of the two books mentioned.


What about the other duats that he mentioned? Are those lies too? Why don't you mention those? So the point is that there have been numerous incidents in history when duats have been absent from janaazas of their naas. That does not mean that they did not have mohabbat of their naas as MS claims loudly and repeatedly. You are splitting hairs Adam. I still believe Taher Bhaisahb over the deceptive MS.

haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#343

Unread post by haqniwaat » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:56 pm

Talking to people like Adam is like talking to a brick wall. I have evidence that most or almost all of the people in Saifee Mahal actually believe that nass is retractable and they're too scared to come out and spew their venom - that they believe that it was retracted. That leaves a very big cloud on the infallibility of the Da'i himself, if he - for whatever reason - needs to retract nass. So no Dawoodi Bohra in his/her right mind could fathom nass retraction. This theory is once again a twisted version of zahir-batin - which is now being denied to the public that it ever existed. One lie after another. A pile of lies.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#344

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:19 pm

watsup message:

Forwarded as Received.

Badribhai did Araz of Rs.2 crore Niyaz khidmat and Rs.10 crore in total Ashara contribution. His businesses are Lace/Textile manufacturing, Real estate, Diamond trading and Airplane leasing service.

Badri Ahmedali Lacewala is 53rd Dai Syedna Mufaddal Mola na daur na highest khidmatguzar as of now ! With businesses worth Rs.500 crores...... He owns 2 planes and 1 helicopter and 15 fleet of cars ranging from Merc ML, BMW 7.5 series etc etc. He has a personal yacht named SMB and is into construction business also. He has developed more then 15 buildings under Badri Infra Projects. Badribhai started from selling laces on streets of Surat. He is the person you have seen with Mufaddal Mola this year in Ashura doing maximum Talaqqi.

SBM
Posts: 6429
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#345

Unread post by SBM » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:51 pm

Murtuza Ahmedbhai Lacewala is assciated with following companies.

Name Date of Appointment Designation
SURAT VIHAR INDUSTRIES PRIVATE LIMITED 20 June 2011 Director
ZULFIKAR LACE PRIVATE LIMITED 07 May 2008 Director
BML DEVELOPERS PRIVATE LIMITED 12 September 2013 Director
BADRI INFRAPROJECTS PRIVATE LIMITED 12 September 2013 Director


BADRI INFRAPROJECTS PRIVATE LIMITED is a private company registered on 12/09/2013. The company has an authorized capital of Rs 4,52,00,000.00 and paid-up capital of Rs 4,52,00,000.00.

Its registered office is situated at S. F. 2009 To 2014, Badri Tower,ring Road, Surat, Gujarat, India-395002.

The status of company in the records of Registrar is active which means that it is actively doing all its filing with the Registrar.

Company has currently 2 director and falls under the jurisdiction of Registrar of Company-Ahmedabad
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KIAAN AIRWAYS PRIVATE LIMITED is a private company registered on 22/03/2013. The company has an authorized capital of Rs 2,25,00,000.00 and paid-up capital of Rs 2,25,00,000.00.

Its registered office is situated at 701, Golden Tower,nr. K. B. Com Centre,khanpur, Ahemdabad, Gujarat, India-380001.

The status of company in the records of Registrar is active which means that it is actively doing all its filing with the Registrar.

Company has currently 4 director and falls under the jurisdiction of Registrar of Company-Ahmedabad.

everest
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:02 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#346

Unread post by everest » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:54 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:watsup message:

Forwarded as Received.

Badribhai did Araz of Rs.2 crore Niyaz khidmat and Rs.10 crore in total Ashara contribution. His businesses are Lace/Textile manufacturing, Real estate, Diamond trading and Airplane leasing service.

Badri Ahmedali Lacewala is 53rd Dai Syedna Mufaddal Mola na daur na highest khidmatguzar as of now ! With businesses worth Rs.500 crores...... He owns 2 planes and 1 helicopter and 15 fleet of cars ranging from Merc ML, BMW 7.5 series etc etc. He has a personal yacht named SMB and is into construction business also. He has developed more then 15 buildings under Badri Infra Projects. Badribhai started from selling laces on streets of Surat. He is the person you have seen with Mufaddal Mola this year in Ashura doing maximum Talaqqi.
Notice the emphasis on his material achievements. I am happy to see a mumin bhai be so wildly successful. However, it goes to show that money trumps everything. I remember SMS in one bayaan said something along the lines that people who trim their beards are akin to munfaqeen but this guy gets a clean chit because of the depth of his pockets. Su nirali shaan che. Paisa phek tamasha dekh. Thank you Lacewala bhai for exposing the double standard.

Saif53
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#347

Unread post by Saif53 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:23 pm

@

LFT
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:55 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#348

Unread post by LFT » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:24 pm

salaar wrote:Disillusioned I never said that the 4 year old was the son of Mohammad ul baqir I was just intended to say that like Mohammad ul baqir who was the grandson of imam Hussain , this 4 year old was the grandson of imam Hasan.
Just asking to clarify. If he was Grandson of Imam Hasan, what was his father's name? In waaz, we heard that Hz Qasim was 11 so only a child and Hz Abdullah was married at the time of Karbala. Maybe, Hz Abdullah had another wife or another son of Imam Hasan. Would be interesting to learn that fact if someone knows. Also, my comment on the waaz in general. With Internet and education, information is easy to find. So, waaz, IMHO has to keep up with this and provide clarity when quoting facts. As it is, a lot of our facts don't gel with other sources. In my view, this makes the bayaan more fairy tale and less believable - at least for some like me.

MUSTAPH
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:24 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#349

Unread post by MUSTAPH » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:54 pm

LFT

agree with what you say,

According to books available on net it's qasim who was married to imam Hussain daughter not Abdullah. Abdullah according to one article is the small boy who comes in maqtal when shimr is killing imam Hussain.

Also if sakina was married than so as said she was only 4years old. Imam Hassan had passed away 10 years before karbala, means she was born 6 years after imam hassan died. Than how did imam hassan ask her to be married to his son. The lamers will come up with it was not sakina to be married but daughter of imam Hussain whenever he had a daughter but it sound's incorrect.

Adam
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#350

Unread post by Adam » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:01 am

Crater Lake wrote:What about the other duats that he mentioned? Are those lies too? Why don't you mention those? So the point is that there have been numerous incidents in history when duats have been absent from janaazas of their naas. That does not mean that they did not have mohabbat of their naas as MS claims loudly and repeatedly. You are splitting hairs Adam. I still believe Taher Bhaisahb over the deceptive MS.
I haven't seen Tahers video to comment which other Duat he mentioned.
But, I did confirm from Uyun al Akbar, and it is very clear that Taher was lying about Imam Qaim.

It is the Sunnat of Dawat that the Mansoos MUST lead the Namaz if he is in the same city.
KQ WAS in Mumbai and ran away.
He didn't even pray behind Syedna Mufaddal TUS - similar to Imam Husain praying behind the Amil.

I haven't come across an example of any Imam or Dai running away from their Dai's/Imams Janaza and not praying behind it.


haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#351

Unread post by haqniwaat » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:25 am

So since you know the sunnats of dawat better than Burhanuddin Mola RA mazoon, maybe we should gather in a saqifa and make you mazoon.

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#352

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:50 am

Was not MS lying about Nass itself for all this while
he lied about the siary
he lied about the witnesses
he lied about nass video
he lied about the hospital nass video
he is a liar, of liars he has conspirated against mazoon saheb and spread lies to people. He gave aln the people wrong tassawur, he has done a grave sin without approval he sat on d throne which was deserved by other and then now on the throne speaks ill about mazoon saheb.
He is god of liars not god on earth

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#353

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:13 am

Yes i think ms was lying. If he can lie publically(in court) that SKQ saheb followers will not b harmed than there is no doubt that he didnt lie in nass related case.

I think even MS followers cannot deny this SAFED JHOOT.

ponga bhori
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#354

Unread post by ponga bhori » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:28 am

Akhtiar Wahid wrote:Was not MS lying about Nass itself for all this while
.......................................he has done a grave sin without approval he sat on d throne which was deserved by other and then now on the throne speaks ill about mazoon saheb.
This throne is for a liar. Never meant for the goody goody truth tellers.

MUSTAPH
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:24 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#355

Unread post by MUSTAPH » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:12 pm

Hey all on this forum I would like to make a confession here, no matter what we all type here or no matter how much ever even SKQ tries it's not going to be possible to shake majority from their belief and because of which the trust is going to be in power of SMS.

You all must have witnessed the following of people on the ashura night majlis video. People are just crazy behind SMS. I mean SMB had this kind of following but that was after a few years on the throne and during this years people had achieved some progress which they attributed to the dai and his dua. But, SMS has actually not done anything worthwhile till date. In fact he at many moments has made a fool of himself, but the kind of following he's got is really amazing.

I do not know what SKQ wishes to win in the court. Does he think court will give him the keys to all the trust properties and all the followers of SMS (of which large number are following only because the mass is on this side and Why would one take panga and destroy his own comfort life.) Will divert their worship to SKQ.
In fact even if decided by court Does SKQ have enough manpower to manage all dawat properties. There are numerous amils managing the show for SMS, does SKQ have these numbers. I mean where is the victory that he can see.

SKQ followers please do not come up with explanations like number of people following abu bakr and Ali after Mohammed etc...

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#356

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:31 pm

Mustaph Bhai,

This matter has never been about numbers, it is been about haq and truth. If you see the history with which we are connected with, Imams and duats there were not a lot of people on their side but the majority was against them. In today's date and time still the majority is against shia islamic sect let alone bohra faith which is in trouble with other shia sects also.
This case is about " Aakhri Hujjat" last stance of the rightful leader that by no doubt is SKQ saheb.
All this Janaza excuse, nass excuses infact all the excuses are lame and pointless. It is just to make us the common people the followers to be in confused state of mind.
Just Imagine there is a person who is claiming by swearing on Quran that he is rightful and he was instructed by the dai to disclose only when he has passed away. He is running trust and medical camps which are useful for all the unprivileged people including non bohra people also.
He is given us a way to pay our zakaat with all the calculations and not by someones whims and fancies.
He is against this bureaucratic system and sorting of people by their titles and wealth.
Isn't this a boon by god himself that he is showing us away and we are here to witness it.

Mazakyo
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#357

Unread post by Mazakyo » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:16 pm

Adam wrote:
Crater Lake wrote:What about the other duats that he mentioned? Are those lies too? Why don't you mention those? So the point is that there have been numerous incidents in history when duats have been absent from janaazas of their naas. That does not mean that they did not have mohabbat of their naas as MS claims loudly and repeatedly. You are splitting hairs Adam. I still believe Taher Bhaisahb over the deceptive MS.
I haven't seen Tahers video to comment which other Duat he mentioned.
But, I did confirm from Uyun al Akbar, and it is very clear that Taher was lying about Imam Qaim.

It is the Sunnat of Dawat that the Mansoos MUST lead the Namaz if he is in the same city.
KQ WAS in Mumbai and ran away.
He didn't even pray behind Syedna Mufaddal TUS - similar to Imam Husain praying behind the Amil.

I haven't come across an example of any Imam or Dai running away from their Dai's/Imams Janaza and not praying behind it.


Adam seth tu Uyun al Akhbar ka purana edition par raha hai. Naya edition khareed abhi market mein aya hai.

Adam
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#358

Unread post by Adam » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:50 pm

haqniwaat wrote:So since you know the sunnats of dawat better than Burhanuddin Mola RA mazoon, maybe we should gather in a saqifa and make you mazoon.


Correction. I have understood the "sunnats of Dawat" better than - an Imposter and claimant to the position of the Dai.
(Ever heard the story of how the and killed the elephant?)

It is also evidently clear that I have understood the text of Uyoon al Akbar and the zikr of Imam Qaim AS better than Taher Qutbuddin has.
Have you got around to asking him? Or verifying the texts your self?

Mazakyo wrote:Adam seth tu Uyun al Akhbar ka purana edition par raha hai. Naya edition khareed abhi market mein aya hai.


If you had the courage to face the truth you would refer to Uyun al Akbar. Old or New edition, Taher will be a proven liar.


haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#359

Unread post by haqniwaat » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:10 pm

So you agree, Adam, that you know more than Burhanuddin Mola RA mazoon. So once again you've proven your point that you believe that Burhanuddin Mola made a big mistake by keeping this mazoon for 50 years. Simple. Case closed. Just like your people believe that nass is retractable - confirming once again that you do not believe in the infallibility of the dai. And I don't want to hear your usual excuses like 'awwal thani thaaleth ne bhi rasulullah ye raakhela'.
Just spit it out, man! You despise Burhanuddin Mola mazoon just like your leader does, no matter what proof you get. Congrats to you and your leader on reaching the height of arrogance.

Adam
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Ashara 1436 Surat

#360

Unread post by Adam » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:35 pm

Nope. Can't you read English?
The claimant Khuzaima's claim to the Dai has proven to be false (and will be proven in his face in courts. Soon). And Taher lacks intelligence and integrity in his bayans.
BTW, Did you get a chance to call and speak to him and clarify the Uyun text? Why the delay?

And if I do compare Khuzaima's appointment to 1 2 3, and Iblis and Hujaj and Duat who have gone astray in the past, it wouldn't be wrong. History repeats itself. Only the Imam and Dai Mutlaq are ma'soom.