Dawoodi Bohra Forum

I think that you should consider sajda to Dai as re-enactment of the heavenly sajda, a ritual expression of total obedience to Allah's representative. It is clearly not commanded of humans by Allah. Neither is the annual sacrifice at Bakri Eid. Muslims are simply re-enacting the ritual.

Angels did not think Adam was Allah and neither should you think that Dai is Allah. You should attempt to understand the Bohra view and not condemn it outright. There is no need to laud it either.

fayyaaz wrote:I think that you should consider sajda to Dai as re-enactment of the heavenly sajda,...

keep that stupid kufr-filled advice for yourself. when you reach heaven then perform as many re-enactments of whatever you want, including getting martyred like hussain in kerbala, or maybe re-enacting othello or hamlet, or "saj gayi sunheri kothe mein", whatever takes your fancy.

never heard so much balderdash in my whole life..

omg, what have bohras come to?? its absolutely mind numbing!

MORE PHOTOS OF THE YAZID KAAFILA.

Brother Zulfiqar .. You make me laugh out loud

Bro ghulam .. On above pics . Still these blind bohras will not realize . I see a man hungry of power enjoying seeing people as his slave . This whole MS and his abde slave scene reminds me of Conrad's novel heart of darkness , a must read ...
A general question normally how long a dai had lived?

watsup msg :

Asar ni namaz baad Mufaddal Mola ne araz thai ke Mola bayan ma to aap Burhanuddin Mola ni shaan dikhavo chho have aaj ek amal kari ne Burhanuddin Mola na Deedar karaviye..... Mola tus asar ni namaz baad miyana ma Burhanuddin Mola ni shaan ma tashrif lai gaya !!



A clear case of "Marketing Tactics" gone wrong !! In his zest of emotionally surcharging the abdes by using SMB as a marketing tool, Muffy actually MOCKED SMB by parading himself in a "Palkhi" just like how the fragile and weak SMB was paraded by him in order to loot his abdes !!

MUFFY IN PALKHI TRYING TO EMULATE SMB TO LURE THE ABDES AND IN THE BARGAIN MAKING A MOCKERY OF HIMSELF AND SMB

watsup msg :-

Je bhai car ma che te bhai Badri Lacewala che...... Ye bhai ye pura Mohurrum ane Surat ma saglo kharcho ye bhai ye aapo che.... Molana ne 100 crore tak kharcho thaai ya ehna si zyaada no kharcho thaai saglu uthava ne taiyar che... Ye bhai nu lace banava nu kaarkhanu che

What are these jokers doing with the swords? This is the height of madenss and craziness.

ghulam muhammed wrote:MORE PHOTOS OF THE YAZID KAAFILA.

What a pomp and display of celebration in the month of Moharram, when Shia of Ali mourn, we celebrate in this holy month with colors and food.

The Dai on the palki is probably re-enactment of his future funeral procession.

anajmi wrote:The Dai on the palki is probably re-enactment of his future funeral procession.

You hit the nail on the head...MS's funeral procession and liberation of mumineen and munimeenat from his tyrannical rule

abde bohras need to come out of this misconception drilled into their minds of justifying sajda to a human, any human.

it was allah who commanded the angels to do sajda to adam, whom he created as per his wish. the keyword here is allah. not imam, not dai, not some 2 bit mongrel puppy son of a dai, or a stupid amil. ALLAH.

and allah's command was very specific, that sajda was for ADAM only. did he say, that henceforth you can do sajda to any tom, dick and harry, any sadak chaap self-declared holy man who comes along and claims to be the representative of allah on earth?

did the prophet ever accept sajda from anyone?
did ali ever accept sajda from anyone?
is there any exception made in the quran anywhere about doing sajda to any other being other than adam?
is there any comparison between allah's command and a dai's command?
is the dai equal in rank to any prophet?

if the answer to all above questions is NO, then no matter how much someone tries to pass of their kufr and shirk re: sajda, the answer should still be NO, NO and NO.
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I am not justifying anything rather just explaining my understanding.

2 points:

1. Why angels did sajda to Adam? They asked Allah and there are ayats in Qur'an about Allah asking questions to angels and Adam about names which Adam replies and angels say they only know what Allah reveals to them. Adam was superior in terms of knowledge and noor of Allah in Adam's essence. The crux is a reason was asked and Allah showed a REASON.

2. What about sajda of Yusuf nabi's brother? Even it was a dream. The ayat in surah Yusuf start with it and there is no condemnation of why a nabi have seen such a dream? That contextp/tawil was explained as respect,honor and Ta'at and Yusuf nabi dream comes true.

Ta'at is not ibadat. Angels have always been obedient and worshipping for Allah. Here the subject is Adam and They performed sajdah to Adam and thus shown obedient to khalifa of Allah.

Sajdah of ibadah is only for Allah.
There is a REASON to perform Sajda and for the reason being ta'at, it is symbolic.

think_for_yourself wrote:The point was that there is nothing wrong with the act per se!

Sis TFY

A Sajda is an act of obedience and submission, this practice is very vunerable to exploitation in hands of corrupt or power hungry godmen. Due respect to one’s intentions of giving respect to a leader. I personally feel, an act of sajda is an emotionally purest and spiritual sense of submission, it is better reserved for Allah Almighty, there is no room or scope of exploitation or decpetion in this case. When one does a sajda to one or several humans, the sanctity of this act is diluted. It starts with one, and then it will go on to become a ritual to any tom and harry.

ghulam muhammed wrote:A clear case of "Marketing Tactics" gone wrong !! In his zest of emotionally surcharging the abdes by using SMB as a marketing tool, Muffy actually MOCKED SMB by parading himself in a "Palkhi" just like how the fragile and weak SMB was paraded by him in order to loot his abdes !!

GM

Kothar is re-visiting their strategy of palkhi-parade to stir up the emotion of abdes and make the palkhi-parade a norm in the society as a ritual showering of barakat by the DAI upon their spiritually hungry and thirsty abde followers. There has been criticism raising eyebrows and embarrassment for kothar when the talks of SMS parading his father’s frail body to get sympathy. This is yet another social experiment which kothar will be successful at installing a new ritual to glorify the DAI and save their sorry bottoms from past bluffs !

Al Zulfiqar wrote:it was allah who commanded the angels to do sajda to adam, whom he created as per his wish. the keyword here is allah. not imam, not dai, not some 2 bit mongrel puppy son of a dai, or a stupid amil. ALLAH.

and allah's command was very specific, that sajda was for ADAM only.

Exactly ... One cannot consider Allah's command to be a sweeping statement on sajda to humans. He commanded sajda to only Adam and then He has specifically said time and again that sajda is only for Him alone. Allah has also commanded to kill but there was a reason when He commanded to kill. Now you can't generalise the statement and go on a killing spree. Just like the sajda-only-to-Him command, the Quran also specifically states that taking a life is big sin. How can the Quran be contradictory ? Hence, when Allah commanded sajda to Adam, it was meant ONLY for Adam and when Allah commanded killing, it was only meant for Rasulullah when he was at war.

One small question to all abde syedna, list us all the things which you had reserved ONLY for allah. I mean few points which you do only to allah and NOT to dai.

Purpose of this question is to know how nearer you took our dai status to allah or is there any difference between allah and dai (according to you all) apart that dai is visible.

Al Zulfiqar wrote:

never heard so much balderdash in my whole life..

omg, what have bohras come to?? its absolutely mind numbing!

Ditto...I was surprised when you tried to talk logical ideology with the abde ...I guessed right you would fail to drill sense into him.

What is worrying about these photos is There are hundreds of thousands of abdes...who love to do what they do.

watsup message :

A TIME FOR QAYAMAT FOR FATEMI DAAWAT !!!

Dear Mumineen and Muminaat of Dawoodi Bohra Jamats,

Baad Afzal us Salam

Most of the dawoodi bohras must have heard the audio of Muffy's rants on Daawedar and his family and supporters in the presence of almost 2 lakh bohras during 4th raat Mohurrum majlis in Surat.

The immediate impression, the rants has made on majority bohras is as follows :-

1) Why Mufy has to lose his control and raise his voice from the Mimbar to take out his anger and frustration ? When he knows that the matter regarding wrong and right and Haq and Batil is being decided by a Hindu judge. As far as he and his supporters are concerned; they have taken into their possession almost all the physical properties related to the Dawat-e-Hadiyah and somehow succeeded in controlling majority of bohra masses too, and moreover they have exceeded their money collection power by floating many more dubious schemes during Ashura "Mubaraka" ! On the other hand the daawedar and his sons and few followers are powerless, still not showing their anger and frustration in public but trying to convince the bohra masses using very limited communication power of the internet and social networks around the globe.

In this family feud, Daawedar and his sons are behaving responsibly, their vayez are to the point, full of real deeni messages and very well prepared and being delivered. Vayezs of Muffy are too long, full of many irrelevant things, sometimes childish like actions and rants, mostly nothing else but elevation of 51st and 52 Dais to the level of Rasul Allah (s.a.w.), Molana Ali a,s, and even the Almighty Allah (swt) (Nauzubillah). More madehs of the last 3 are recited instead of marsiyahs of Imam Hussain a.s.. People are getting fed up in few minutes waiting for the end to come soon. There is no reasoning or intellectual points in his sermons but instil threats and fear in the minds if you do not follow his dictats; he and his predecessors will not catch your hand when you will be buried !!!

Still worst, he is floating several new imaginary stories without any sense related to Karbala and Ahle Bayt in his sermons to create sensation, emotion and panic but really it dilutes the real tragedy of Karbala.

Summarising the entre matter in short, it can be proved beyond doubt that Muffy is not capable of handling the apex position of the Dawoodi Bohra community nor he is educated, trained or even considered by the 52nd Dai. It was not a mistake of the 52nd Dai not to elevate Muffy long ago for the post but the 52nd Dai must be convinced that Muffy is not fit, and he was not capable of openly declaring the daawedar in public to be his successor as he was under the siege of the several powerful brothers and sisters who were waiting for the last 50 years to grab maximum wealth the 52nd had controlled.

Even though the real qayamat is still far away but qayamat for dawoodi bohra community is very close and at this juncture if anyone can save this community or dawat, it must be Imam uz zaman, and if he is alive on this globe it is his responsibility to declare himself and show his ultimate power taking over the command to save his Fatemi Dawat.

Dont understand why on every waaz he keeps bursting on skq saheb? He had not missed any single day where he had not mentioned his name directly or indirectly. For what he is getting worried for. He had lacs of followers (willingly or unwillingly), massive wealth and great political contacts and on other side SKQ saheb has very few followers (in hundreds or less i guess), niether money power nor political power. So basically no comparision at all.

What he will gain by giving such hate speeches to his brain dead follower.

ghulam muhammed wrote:MORE PHOTOS OF THE YAZID KAAFILA.

And I (Dawoodi Bohra) thought Muharram is a month of sadness and mourning.

GM bhai, Are these photos are before Muharrum of SMS arrival or during Muharrum? Please confirm!

And I (Dawoodi Bohra) thought Muharram is a month of sadness and mourning

that is only for 3 hours inside the Markaz and during the Waiz, if no sadness then RUVA JEVO MONH BANAVILO, Bohra Dai teaches their followers to act may be there is a hope in Bollywood for many Abdes/Amtes

RUVA JEVO MONH BANAVILO

Pretending is actually a key teaching of the bohra Dai. You see the guys with the swords? What are they doing? Simply pretending. Give them swords and ask them to go into an actual battle and then see what falls off first. The sword from their hands or the hijaar from their legs.

anajmi wrote:

RUVA JEVO MONH BANAVILO

Pretending is actually a key teaching of the bohra Dai. You see the guys with the swords? What are they doing? Simply pretending. Give them swords and ask them to go into an actual battle and then see what falls off first. The sword from their hands or the hijaar from their legs.

Yes wahabis like you sure know how to cut off heads of humans with sharp swords. You have had ample practice.

fustrate_Bohra wrote: And I (Dawoodi Bohra) thought Muharram is a month of sadness and mourning.

Then you thought wrong .. It's the time for beating drums, parades, sword dances, fakhir jamans, money collection, salami, daakhili, palkhi and what have you. Do you see Imam Husain anywhere in this ? The only place where you will hear his name briefly is in the waaz but at that time people are busy sleeping, on whatsapp or dreaming about the food. Sadly, Imam Husain has been shunted to the back seat

Habeel wrote:
Ta'at is not ibadat.
Sajdah of ibadah is only for Allah.
There is a REASON to perform Sajda and for the reason being ta'at, it is symbolic.

habeel and all the others, no matter how hard you try, no matter how much you bend head over heels to justify sajda to any human being, no matter how many semantics you employ, calling sajda by other fancy names such as Ta'at, sajda e taqriman, sajda e taaziman, sajda al ardh etc etc. it is still bloody shirk.

allah has not said anywhere in the quran that in the future you will do sajdas to any of his prophets, representatives and any 2-bit charlatan who comes up and starts claiming linkage with him.

if allah's command to the angels to do sajda to adam is a license to do sajdas to any tom dick and hairy, and as explained by some kafirs here that sajda can be done to anyone to pay respects according to bohra ideology, then bohras should start doing sajdas to narendra modi, to the local politician, to the local goonda, to the police, to the amil, to the zaada, to sachin tendulkar, to obama, to the american ambassador, to his wife and even to the qawwal who sang so superbly at your daughters' wedding.

i say lets unleash a tsunami of sajdas. like the japanese whose custom it is to bow deeply to any visitor, lets make it a uniquely bohra custom to throw themselves in sajda left and right at the drop of a topi. why not? it is only ta'at, right?

one healthy side effect will be that it will offset the bad side effects of gorging on 2 kharas, 2 mithaas at moharram jamans to mourn the shahadat of imam hussain. bohras will become supple of body and alert of mind, looking for the next opportunity with an eagle eye to do a quickie sajda.

haqniwaat, now that i have given you a clean chit and green signal, start jumping with joy and sajdas. indulge in your favourite past time as much as you please. tighten your ta'at and your topi and go at it man!

inna lid dai e, wa inna dai e rajeun..!!

At the end of the day, Mumineen really dont worry so much about who or what someone says while they are on the podium or takhat. They actually do pay more attention to ibaadat of Allah and they do trust their own inner voice of conscience. That's the only voice that sticks with their soul till it departs the universe. Commonsense doesn't have to be sacrificed by Groupthink. People instinctively know to use their better judgement. That's the feedback I hear from otherwise "die-hard abdes/amtes" in the last few days gather SMS bayaans.

Al Zulfiqar wrote: ... and even to the qawwal who sang so superbly at your daughters' wedding.
i say lets unleash a tsunami of sajdas. like the japanese whose custom it is to bow deeply to any visitor, lets make it a uniquely bohra custom to throw themselves in sajda left and right at the drop of a topi.
become supple of body and alert of mind, looking for the next opportunity with an eagle eye to do a quickie sajda.

LOL .. that was a laugh riot