reformist have missed the golden opportunity!

[Critical_Thinker]

sister critical thinker,

i have a few questions for you:

1. you have said that this site is 'insignificant'. pray, then why are you here, to be a part of this 'insignificant' site, or to heap insults and ridicule on it?
2. it is your conclusion that the reformists have done nothing. what have you done since you joined them and visited udaipur every so often?
3. you have serious doubts about this site, its ownership, management and leanings, once again, why be an active contributor to such a dangerous, insidious site?
4. have you ever tried actively to research and find out who is running this site, where the meagre funds are coming from?
5. have you ever tried impartially to do some homework and find out how a tiny little site like this has proven to be a painful thorn in the kothari mafia's side? how many times we have seen hard evidence of the swift corrective measures they had to take to hide their kufr after being exposed here?
6. it seems at this time that you have a lot of angst and anger at the way our community is being run and exploited. you are blindly lashing out for someone to blame. do you realise that you are accusing the 'victims', crucifying them for their lack of resources when faced with a monstrously powerful adversary, instead of finding your own way to take on these con-artists who are taking the entire community for a ride? this is like society blaming a rape victim and turning a blind eye to the haramkhor rapist. is this something that one should expect from you, a woman herself?
7. i beg of you, please focus on the goals ahead. either you be an integral part of the reform movement, no matter how humble your contribution, or you leave this cult and find your own way to happiness. but please do not discourage and disparage those who are valiantly attempting, no matter if it is a tiny grain of sand in a humble sparrow's beak which is trying to plug the leak.

you should know that udaipuri's have never been allowed to lead their lives in peace. they are so busy fighting the goondas of kothar, besides earning an honest livelihood, that they hardly have time to come here and participate. they are doing more than you and i could do sitting behind a computer. if it was not for udaipur, you would not have this site, you would not be here and neither would this wave of rebellion against mufaddal. if you have not understood this, then there is no point in my listing all the gains that have occured because of the reformists, esp of the udaipuris.

Im glad I finally joined the forum al zulfiqar, as Ive always wanted to ask you a question. Why do you highlight your posts the way you do?
Also why did you leave the forum a few months ago and what made you come back again?

1. Like I have said several times already, Ive come here for the debate and to learn more about SKQ.
I have said the truth, which is that this website is insignificant, as are all its members, myself included.
This is not ridiculing or insulting, it is a basic statement of fact. We are not the United Nations or NATO!
Nobody here is important, its tragically delusional to think otherwise.
Why not get off your pedestal and just enjoy the conversation here, instead of thinking you are the sword of imam ali about to change the world.

2. I do what most progressives do in udaipur (and outside udaipur). We get on with our lives.
What do you think happens in udaipur? Have you ever been there?
Do you think every single person is some kind of hardcore freedom fighting rambo, whose life revolves around destroying the kothar?
I can assure you that this is not the case. We are more worried about our children, our homes, our businesses, our tv dramas and sport!

3. Im not the only one who thinks this place is dubious, but why would that prevent me from chatting to you?
Like people keep reminding me, I think this website is insignificant. How can something insignificant be dangerous?

4. If you know who is running the site then please do inform the rest of us.
There are so many adverts on here that Im sure they dont need any funding.

5. People keep mentioning things like this.
I would love for it to be true and will happily believe it if shown proof.
Please do provide the evidence in your next post please.

6. Anger? Angst? Blame? Victims? Crucifying? Rape?????
I think you are projecting your own frustrations on to me al zulfiqar, Id rather you didnt.
Its precisely this kind of ego-filled over-exaggeration which keeps people detached from reality.
All I have said is that this is little forum where a few people come and chat, so lets not get carried away thinking it will change the world.
Somehow speaking this blatant truth, is considered a cardinal sin, and has gotten everybody in to tizzy. Why?
Incidentally, the con-artists are not taking the 'entire' community for a ride. The progressives have been free of them for decades.
You should try joining us as it would readily calm your nerves.
(And please avoid using rape as an analogy again bhai)

7. There is no reform movement al zulfiqar.
What we do have is the progressive jamaat which frees us from the orthodox jamaat.
You will find this to be a common opinion amongst progressives, especially in udaipur.
There are only a few people left who want to attack the kothar like mr insaf.
The majority are happy being separate and living their lives.
We have beaten the kothar because we no longer give a damn about them, there are far more important things in life!

As for your last paragraph, its obvious that youve never been to udaipur.
You are welcome to fantasize about my family being hardcore freedom fighters, living in fear while waging a war against oppression.
However the reality is they do live their lives in peace and are not busy fighting goondas, far from it.
Life in udaipur is pretty ordinary. You should come and see it sometime.

One final note and important al zulfiqar,
I dont need to be reminded about the bravery of the udaipuris all those years ago as I am an udaipuri.
You need to be reminded about how we achieved what we did, by facing the kothar in the real world.
Have you ever done that? Or do you just insult and exaggerate on the internet all day?
Do not try and merge udaipur and this forum together, they are two separate things entirely.
Udaipur is significant, this forum is insignificant.

[Al Zulfiqar]

One final note and important ...
Udaipur is significant, this forum is insignificant.

since that is your final conclusion, it only strengthens my impression that all you are here to do is heap scorn on this forum. you need to read the posts on this forum more thoroughly before jumping to conclusions about it or the people who post here. you do not know my background and neither of anyone else here. your arrogance and self-importance bordering on vanity is amazing.

is it any use taking this debate further with someone who has made up her mind that this forum is 'insignificant' and nothing here is of much importance? obviously not. you want us to carry on a meaningful debate with you, you who has already decided that we are all a bunch of deluded good-for-nothing old farts sitting behind computers wasting our time? i for one will not be wasting any further time with a johnny-come-lately like you who is not well-informed and intellectually too lazy to search for answers on this forum.

[Admin]

Critical Thinker,
This site and the forum are run by individuals from Udaipur. We are reformist Dawoodi Bohras. We finance the site ourselves and with donations from a few generous members. The ads have been put up only recently. The charges you have leveled against us - that this place is run by wahhabis and non-Bohras - are serious and unfounded. And you made this accusations based on hearsay and on your own prejudices, without a shred of evidence.
Anyway, thank you for coming to this site and participating, even though you cannot tire of asserting how insignificant it is. At least it is significant enough to command your time and attention. Thank you.

[Ummul Bani]

In my opinion, this 'golden opportunity' should not be viewed as an opportunity that is presented only to the reformists. I think it is also an opportunity for anybody who has been seeking a change.

Given the present situation and turn of events, most bohras are starting to lose faith in their own belief system. This is indeed the best time to influence them and raise awareness. One need not be a reformist " officially" for this purpose.

All such thinking bohras who have realized the atrocities of the clergy and the reformists share a common goal. The goal of fighting the corrupt priesthood and not giving in to their demands.Therefore the onus to make use of the " golden opportunity" lies on both.

It has always been easy to blame others for their inefficiency. It is a fact that people usually blame others when there is nothing they themselves can do thereby displaying their own helplessness in changing the situation for good.
By placing blame on others, they are somehow able to escape from their own responsibility.
They do not realize that this sort of a blame game does not get them anywhere.

Perhaps, the best thing to do would be to draw your own attention towards taking up responsibility and investing time into making some worthwhile changes instead of wasting time complaining.

[maethist]

Critical Thinker,
This site and the forum are run by individuals from Udaipur. We are reformist Dawoodi Bohras. We finance the site ourselves and with donations from a few generous members. The ads have been put up only recently. The charges you have leveled against us - that this place is run by wahhabis and non-Bohras - are serious and unfounded. And you made this accusations based on hearsay and on your own prejudices, without a shred of evidence.
Anyway, thank you for coming to this site and participating, even though you cannot tire of asserting how insignificant it is. At least it is significant enough to command your time and attention. Thank you.

I gather from her post that she is only reporting the suspicions among people she knows who suspect that this place is run by wahhabis and non-Bohras. I do not gather from her post that she has herself made that direct an accusation.

[Critical_Thinker]

One final note and important ...
Udaipur is significant, this forum is insignificant.

since that is your final conclusion, it only strengthens my impression that all you are here to do is heap scorn on this forum. you need to read the posts on this forum more thoroughly before jumping to conclusions about it or the people who post here. you do not know my background and neither of anyone else here. your arrogance and self-importance bordering on vanity is amazing.

is it any use taking this debate further with someone who has made up her mind that this forum is 'insignificant' and nothing here is of much importance? obviously not. you want us to carry on a meaningful debate with you, you who has already decided that we are all a bunch of deluded good-for-nothing old farts sitting behind computers wasting our time? i for one will not be wasting any further time with a johnny-come-lately like you who is not well-informed and intellectually too lazy to search for answers on this forum.

Scorn? Arrogance? Self-importance? Vanity? Al zulfiqar, Ive already asked you not to project your own shortcomings on to me please.
Also please try to remember that simply being a member of this forum, does not put you in the same category as the righteous udaipuris.
We walk the walk in the real world, you merely talk the talk in the virtual world.
And Im not surprised that youve decided to run away, which is often the case when someone has been conclusively proven wrong.
A shame, as I will never know why you highlight your own posts now, perhaps its a sign of your arrogance, self-importance and vanity?

[Critical_Thinker]

Critical Thinker,
This site and the forum are run by individuals from Udaipur. We are reformist Dawoodi Bohras. We finance the site ourselves and with donations from a few generous members. The ads have been put up only recently. The charges you have leveled against us - that this place is run by wahhabis and non-Bohras - are serious and unfounded. And you made this accusations based on hearsay and on your own prejudices, without a shred of evidence.
Anyway, thank you for coming to this site and participating, even though you cannot tire of asserting how insignificant it is. At least it is significant enough to command your time and attention. Thank you.

Hello admin, who are you really because people in udaipur think this website is owned by either americans or british.
Would you mind revealing your true identity for us here, to settle the issue once and for all?

You most definitely deserve hearty thanks for creating this website, although I wish youd run it better so people stop thinking you are a wahhabi.
Yes, the forum may not be important or change anything, but its certainly a great place to debate and make new friends, or apparently in my case, enemies!

[Critical_Thinker]

Critical Thinker,
This site and the forum are run by individuals from Udaipur. We are reformist Dawoodi Bohras. We finance the site ourselves and with donations from a few generous members. The ads have been put up only recently. The charges you have leveled against us - that this place is run by wahhabis and non-Bohras - are serious and unfounded. And you made this accusations based on hearsay and on your own prejudices, without a shred of evidence.
Anyway, thank you for coming to this site and participating, even though you cannot tire of asserting how insignificant it is. At least it is significant enough to command your time and attention. Thank you.

I gather from her post that she is only reporting the suspicions among people she knows who suspect that this place is run by wahhabis and non-Bohras. I do not gather from her post that she has herself made that direct an accusation.

Hello matheist bhai, yours and biradar bhias posts were the reason I finally joined the forum.
Its very interesting to see the atheist perspective on our bohra conundrum!
Its also very noble to see someone who does not believe, speak so well in support of other people being allowed to believe.
Wahhabis supposedly do believe in god, but hate anybody else who believes in way they dont agree with.

To your point though bhai, yes I am reporting other people suspicions on the non-bohra ownership of this website.
Although I must admit I am quickly beginning to develop the same suspicions myself now.

However, my (now infamous!) assertion that this forum is insignificant, is purely my own opinion and not one I have gathered from 'other people'.
Unfortunately the fact that hardly anybody bothers to come here, does go to show that 'other people' pretty much agree with me.

[Biradar]

A shame, as I will never know why you highlight your own posts now, perhaps its a sign of your arrogance, self-importance and vanity?

I think you are getting a bit carried away. Lets all accept we are not important, and nothing we do matters. Please tell us plebs on how to do a better job. Please, we are waiting with great anxiousness.

I will let Al Zulfiqar answer this question for himself in more detail. but you were not here when this "color coded posts" started. A certain Mr Adam, from his high horse, no doubt receiving ilham from Mr. Muffadul (LA), commanded everyone to use colors based on who they followed or what they believed, so he could easily distinguish posters beliefs. Mr Adam was using green color, so in jest, I decided to do so, and so did Al Zulfiqar. We did not want Mr. Adam to tell us to use red colors as we did not believe in his idols. Thats all. I switched back as it is a pain-in-the-neck to color the text, and hard to read. Nothing sinister, sister. Relax a bit.

[Humsafar]

Critical_Thinker,

Wow woman you have been carrying a lot of baggage all these years and have finally decided to dump it here - against this site. Surely you could not have found a more tolerant and receptive whipping boy. It is obvious that you are in some way disillusioned with reformists and extremely bitter about it. The bitterness shows when you harp about the failures of the progressives, the movement, this forum etc. etc. You've been asked these questions before but have been artfully avoiding them. Let me ask them again:

Since you're so critical of reformists, and being a reformist yourself, can you please tell us what reformists could have done differently.

More specifically, what this forum could have done differently.

What have YOU done to advance the reformist cause?

If you haven't done anything then what right do you have to demean others' efforts? (I normally do not call out on people like this, but I've to ask you because you come across as a self-righteous prima donna who is quick to sit in judgement over others.)

You are right, the majority of progressives are happy living their lives, busy with work and children etc. Nobody is claiming that they are out all day doing battle with the orthodox. But there is always a core group, a handful of individuals who are dedicated to the cause. They have devoted the majority of life to the movement which is of course non-existent for people who have no stake in it. These people run the day to day affairs of the community, keep track of court cases, safeguard community property from the wily Kothar. It is amazing that you are from Udaipur and a reformist and you have no appreciation about the work being done to keep things going. Yes, we could have done better, far better if only more reformists would chip in instead of just "living their lives".

You want me to ask people in Udaipur to participate here. Isn't it odd that you are from Udaipur and a reformist, but you never bothered to participate here until now although you have been coming here for a long time?

Does it occur to you how you are demanding things of others - proof and action - without ever bothering to return the favour.

Whether this forum is significant or not is a pointless debate. It has its supporters and its detractors. And seriously it doesn't matter what either group thinks. This forum is a tool, a platform that brings people together. What they do here is what matters. If you are really interested in a dialogue then let it be two-way dialogue. Lose this contrarian, offensive mode and let's discuss issues. Surely there's a lot that ails reformists and we can discuss that instead of attacking and demeaning them.

[Admin]

I gather from her post that she is only reporting the suspicions among people she knows who suspect that this place is run by wahhabis and non-Bohras. I do not gather from her post that she has herself made that direct an accusation.

Well, if we have to get technical then yes, she is reporting suspicion - her own and of others. But then she claims thus:

It has been expressed on this forum many times and is mentioned in person whenever you bring this place up.
Most traditional bohras think this is a dubious wahhabi run forum, and many progressives think the same too.
The evidence for this is beyond even the shadow of a doubt.
The fact that only about 20 people post here, and the fact that most of the postings are by wahhabis.
Dont be silly and try to deny this.

The evidence is beyond the shadow of a doubt? Can she produce the evidence?

[Admin]

Hello admin, who are you really because people in udaipur think this website is owned by either americans or british.
Would you mind revealing your true identity for us here, to settle the issue once and for all?

You most definitely deserve hearty thanks for creating this website, although I wish youd run it better so people stop thinking you are a wahhabi.
Yes, the forum may not be important or change anything, but its certainly a great place to debate and make new friends, or apparently in my case, enemies!

It is unfortunate that people in Udaipur and you think that way. Tell them to come here and spend time and really explore this site and this forum and see how much wahhabi content is here and how much Bohra/Reform content is here, and then make a considered judgement - that will settle the issue. If they still conclude that this is a wahhabi run site then how would it matter what our identity is.

[Maqbool]

Wahhabis supposedly do believe in god, but hate anybody else who believes in way they dont agree with.

Then SMS should be considered pucca wahabi.

[bohra_manus]

Critical_Thinker,

Wow!!!
Very well said (again) Br Humsafar.
Kudos to you.

[maethist]

Wahhabis supposedly do believe in god, but hate anybody else who believes in way they dont agree with.

Then SMS should be considered pucca wahabi.

That is not correct.

Wahabies want everybody to be like their image of a 'true' Muslim.

Whereas, SMS wants only the Bohras to be like his image of a 'true' Mumin.

[SBM]

Then SMS should be considered pucca wahabi.

That is not correct.

Wahabies want everybody to be like their image of a 'true' Muslim.

Whereas, SMS wants only the Bohras to be like his image of a 'true' Mumin.

Too bad no one wants in your image of Atheist. You are even rejected by SMS and Wahabis what a shame can not get any lower than that

[maethist]

Too bad no one wants in your image of Atheist. You are even rejected by SMS and Wahabis what a shame can not get any lower than that

Tch! Tch!

I have an itch to correct your English. Surely, you meant to say:

"Too bad no one wants to be in your image of an Atheist."

But do tell me, what image would that be?

[anajmi]

Whereas, SMS wants only the Bohras to be like his image of a 'true' Mumin.

That's cause SMS wouldn't be able to fool anyone else. Well, actually, he couldn't fool even the bohras. He is too much of a fool himself to do that. But they were pretty dumbed down by 51 and 52.

[humanbeing]

Wahhabis supposedly do believe in god, but hate anybody else who believes in way they dont agree with.

Sounds familiar with kothar ideologies !

[Al Zulfiqar]

.... you were not here when this "color coded posts" started. A certain Mr Adam, from his high horse, no doubt receiving ilham from Mr. Muffadul (LA), commanded everyone to use colors based on who they followed or what they believed, so he could easily distinguish posters beliefs. Mr Adam was using green color, so in jest, I decided to do so, and so did Al Zulfiqar. We did not want Mr. Adam to tell us to use red colors as we did not believe in his idols.Nothing sinister, sister.

biradar,

thanks for taking the time and effort to explain to this extremely frustrated and bilious sister what this color coding business is all about. i have lost patience debating with someone like her, whose hysterical and delirious mind sees and seeks all sorts of demons where none exist.

[Ozdundee]

Team you are being baited by this person called critical thinker...gender of the person is unconfirmed ..language and style is indicating this person is out to stir trouble and distraction .

The person is provoking a response be cautious ..better ignore, intentionally tying the suck out vocal reformist . Do not reveal details ..

Note the comment she is here to learn about SKQ ! While we know SKQ has his own site and has stated has no association with PDB

[Al Zulfiqar]

ozzy,

you are the second person to voice this same suspicion after bro gm, this person in critical mental condition is definitely a kothari implant trying to sow discord and dvision here.

[maethist]

No posts from our sister Critical_Thinker in several days? That is a shame. She did liven up the forum somewhat.

I must ask our sister not to be too upset due the pounding she received from some members here. I have also been subject to similar reception but I found the forum too entertaining to let go. So sister, continue your quest here.

I detect here a pecking order of reformists, very comfortable in their world view. It is led by 3 brilliant participants whose literary skills are much to be admired. They are the absolutely brilliant Al Zulfiqar whose satires are a high point of my day and 2 self-hating Bohras, Ghulam Muhammed and Humsafar. I would include Biradar among them but must wait until he contributes more.

Then, of course, we have His Excellency, the Joker-in-Chief, the all-knowing, all-righteous Sheikh anajmi (TUS, SAW etc) and his maids. He is definitely a fringe and does not really belong in the pecking order but the leaders seem to give him a bone or two, too often, in my opinion. His self-delusion in considering himself to be God's gift to Bohras knows no bounds.

Ozdundee? Well, i don't know but he resides among the descendants of convicts, cut-throats and thieves down under and you know it is not difficult to imagine that they still retain a trace of bullyism. That could have an effect on him.

So, when all these people round up on you then you should be understanding of their 'maqaam' and consider yourself proud to be worthy of being an object of their attack on you, Sister. Continue your postings. in time you will have as thick a skin as our Lord anajmi (TUS, SAW etc).

[Ozdundee]

GM Bhai has nailed it the issue is kothar is trying hard to deflect people especially abdes and liberal Bohras off this website...they know how destructive this site is to their propaganda ...

It is because of this site and it's few reformist that he can no longer publicise the ziafats....this must have dented the marketing campaign for more ziafats

He can no longer show off hunting or any glamorous photo before getting shot down by this site...

Some negative criticism and words used in what's app are spawned from ideas and comments started here...so when others challenge that not all Bohras have access to Internet or visit this site...but the message gets through by transmission via other second systems ...

This site has become so lethal that news positive and negative is posted here before Amils in remote locations have got round...when I relay what I read here to my abde relatives they object and challenge how I know , until when they hear the same from Amil or what's app they kind of relate why I knew was as authentic

This situation must be turning zadas red with envy and anger.

But while we complement the site for its outstanding service to reform, including the level headed Admin, this site is wiki leaks and the Snowden of Bohra...stay guard..they will find ways to not only discredit this site but actively take it down ....

I have warned you before they will even hire experts to hack, DOL or extract info through back door ...

Relentless sustained persistent resistance is paying off ...so those who come now and then to challenge active reformist ..the scores are on the board! We may have not won but will give the tyrants a good fight....worth the money for the spectators!

Rather it is Something SKQ lost the golden opportunity to form alliance with refrmist. Well he chose his separate path and we wish him no ill . But that does not mean no constructive criticism . Rather this site has also given his team a platform too to discuss and debate ...something Fatemidawat has not yet done.

But SMS wow we can only do better, we will innovate and grow in numbers and hit harder with comments, exposures..so stay tuned or come and to talk to us and change your ways..you know who and where our liaison stations are.

[Humsafar]

So sister, continue your quest here.

Quest? She was here more like an arsonist who lit fires everywhere and ran away when she couldn't handle the heat. She stands exposed. I thought you were too smart not to see through her ruse. Or were you seduced by her flattery? Oh well.

[Biradar]

No posts from our sister Critical_Thinker in several days? That is a shame. She did liven up the forum somewhat.

I must ask our sister not to be too upset due the pounding she received from some members here. I have also been subject to similar reception but I found the forum too entertaining to let go. So sister, continue your quest here.

I detect here a pecking order of reformists, very comfortable in their world view. It is led by 3 brilliant participants whose literary skills are much to be admired. They are the absolutely brilliant Al Zulfiqar whose satires are a high point of my day and 2 self-hating Bohras, Ghulam Muhammed and Humsafar. I would include Biradar among them but must wait until he contributes more.

If Ms. Critical_Thinker is lurking, I urge her to participate. Specially, if she is not a Kothar stooge, then participating constructively is a good idea. This forum is not a toddler play area, and one does not get coddled around much. A few punches in the face, belly and kicks on the backside are to be expected by all.

But, to address friend maethis's point: I am not a self-hating Bohra. Of course, perhaps maethis has some magical incantation and dance he needs to perform, perhaps while reading this forum, to determine this. He should elaborate his criteria. Strangely, I agree with almost 90% of things he says, including the titles and honor he gives to our beloved janab anajmi. Such love and affection between two people I have not seen elsewhere.

[Al Zulfiqar]

I detect here a pecking order of reformists, very comfortable in their world view.

Ozdundee? Well, i don't know but he resides among the descendants of convicts, cut-throats and thieves down under and you know it is not difficult to imagine that they still retain a trace of bullyism. That could have an effect on him.

wow, maethist! i would have least expected someone like you, who comes across as generally better in self-comprehension and intelligence than most, to display such a vivid imagination and start ascribing things like 'pecking order' to the contributors here. me thinks, you are seeing too much into this, perhaps you are getting 'too entertained' for your own good.

i dont think ego or any ulterior basal motives come into the picture here at all. i for one, have disappeared for long periods in the past, esp. after i took the decision to quit the bohra jamaat (not community) for good and did not think it was my fight anymore, humsafar only pitches in rarely when something really gets his goat, and biradar too puts in appearances quite sporadically. gm bhai is the only valiant soul who takes a great deal of effort and time for this forum. we all respect each other and all other members, esp when new members appear, we are among the first to welcome and encourage them. dissent is welcomed, fresh thoughts and approaches are cheered, provided there is a sincere attempt by the detractors to understand, contribute and be constructive. critical 's motives were highly suspect and destructive, most of her views were contradictory and only designed to cause controversy.

i dont know what is your beef with ozdundee, but your comment was totally unwarranted, unprovoked and downright derogatory. Why? What is his crime? simply because he saw through her/his game? this goes as a black mark on your judgement of people and your own character.

[Critical_Thinker]

A shame, as I will never know why you highlight your own posts now, perhaps its a sign of your arrogance, self-importance and vanity?

I think you are getting a bit carried away. Lets all accept we are not important, and nothing we do matters. Please tell us plebs on how to do a better job. Please, we are waiting with great anxiousness.

I will let Al Zulfiqar answer this question for himself in more detail. but you were not here when this "color coded posts" started. A certain Mr Adam, from his high horse, no doubt receiving ilham from Mr. Muffadul (LA), commanded everyone to use colors based on who they followed or what they believed, so he could easily distinguish posters beliefs. Mr Adam was using green color, so in jest, I decided to do so, and so did Al Zulfiqar. We did not want Mr. Adam to tell us to use red colors as we did not believe in his idols. Thats all. I switched back as it is a pain-in-the-neck to color the text, and hard to read. Nothing sinister, sister. Relax a bit.

Actually biradar bhai, its you and everybody else who is getting carried away.
All people have been doing since I got here, is bash me for saying this forum wont change the world.

There is no need for you to consider yourself a pleb just because this forum hasnt achieved much. It is just a website after all.
Real change requires real people in the real world, fighting bravely against the enemy face to face. Like we did so successfully in udaipur.
But if you really do want to make a difference, I would suggest the first thing to do is increase the number of active members here.
If you can go from the present number of about 20, all the way up to say 20,000, then you will surely make far more impact.
If that ever happens, I will immediately reverse my opinion and say this forum is indeed significant.

Al zulfiqar runs away from me now, which is actually a relief as he mentions rape far too casually.
Who is this mr adam and what idols was he fostering?
I wonder why al zulfiqar did not drop the color coding like you did?
Probably due to his self-importance and vanity like I mentioned before.

Thats exactly why I come here, to chit chat and relax.
Why do you come here?

By the way, a belated pehli raat mubarak!

[Critical_Thinker]

Critical_Thinker,

Wow woman you have been carrying a lot of baggage all these years and have finally decided to dump it here - against this site. Surely you could not have found a more tolerant and receptive whipping boy. It is obvious that you are in some way disillusioned with reformists and extremely bitter about it. The bitterness shows when you harp about the failures of the progressives, the movement, this forum etc. etc. You've been asked these questions before but have been artfully avoiding them. Let me ask them again:

Since you're so critical of reformists, and being a reformist yourself, can you please tell us what reformists could have done differently.

More specifically, what this forum could have done differently.

What have YOU done to advance the reformist cause?

If you haven't done anything then what right do you have to demean others' efforts? (I normally do not call out on people like this, but I've to ask you because you come across as a self-righteous prima donna who is quick to sit in judgement over others.)

You are right, the majority of progressives are happy living their lives, busy with work and children etc. Nobody is claiming that they are out all day doing battle with the orthodox. But there is always a core group, a handful of individuals who are dedicated to the cause. They have devoted the majority of life to the movement which is of course non-existent for people who have no stake in it. These people run the day to day affairs of the community, keep track of court cases, safeguard community property from the wily Kothar. It is amazing that you are from Udaipur and a reformist and you have no appreciation about the work being done to keep things going. Yes, we could have done better, far better if only more reformists would chip in instead of just "living their lives".

You want me to ask people in Udaipur to participate here. Isn't it odd that you are from Udaipur and a reformist, but you never bothered to participate here until now although you have been coming here for a long time?

Does it occur to you how you are demanding things of others - proof and action - without ever bothering to return the favour.

Whether this forum is significant or not is a pointless debate. It has its supporters and its detractors. And seriously it doesn't matter what either group thinks. This forum is a tool, a platform that brings people together. What they do here is what matters. If you are really interested in a dialogue then let it be two-way dialogue. Lose this contrarian, offensive mode and let's discuss issues. Surely there's a lot that ails reformists and we can discuss that instead of attacking and demeaning them.

Please drop the sexist tone humsafar, it reveals a primitive attitude very similar to the mindset of SMS.

In what way am I against this site? I think it is a great place to come and debate, which is precisely what forums are for.

On the contrary, it seems I am the latest lamb for the slaughter here.
And simply because Im speaking the undeniable truth that this is merely an insignificant website on the internet, nothing more important than that.
Youre all ganging up on me and even coming up with conspiracy theories about me, just because I said the emperor has no clothes.

You never criticise the wahhabis here, indeed Ive seen you side with them. Are you really from udaipur humsafar?
We both know that if anybody came to one of our masjids in udaipur and said the type of things anajmi and jc and others have said, they would be instantly thrown out.
Yet on this supposedly progressive bohra website, supposedly run by udaipuris, these wahhabis are welcomed, indeed they are the most prolific posters here.

What do you mean? What am I bitter about? I am very proud of what we achieved in udaipur.
Like many progressives, especially in the country I live in now, I feel SKQ has the potential to take things further.
Time will tell if he fulfills his potential. I am optimistic but am not holding my breath as they are all cut from the same cloth.

Please quote the posts you mean because I have never said that.
Udaipur was and still is a beacon of success, I will never say a word against my community there.
This forum on the other hand, is just a website on the internet, nothing more, nothing less.
Why do you think otherwise?

Unlike you humsafar, I always answer the questions posed to me.
And without being abusive or condescending or telling people to search my previous posts like you do.

In udaipur, we achieved what we wanted, which was independence from the kothar.
The reformist cause was to free ourselves from their tyrannical control and abuse.
This we advanced and accomplished, with hard work and dedication, with struggle and sacrifice.
Not by anonymously fantasizing about it on the internet, in the risk-free comfort of our homes.
We took real action in the real world, at great risk and cost to ourselves and our families.
That is how we taught the kothar a lesson.
That is why we are significant.

'Nobody is claiming that they are out all day doing battle with the orthodox.'
Actually, that is precisely what al zulfiqar said before, which is why I corrected him.

Of the thousands in udaipur, only a few are still at war, the rest have found peace.
This is because most of us have what we want now, freedom from the kothar
We have won and no longer need to fight as they have no power over us now.
The court cases still linger but do not really effect our daily lives.

What do you think the reformist cause is humsafar?
What have YOU done to advance it?
You must be a one of the hardcore supporters of mr insaf. He only has about 50 or so at most now in udaipur.
You and mr insaf are a small minority with very different ambitions to the majority of udaipuris.
You and him have the egotistical dream of destroying the kothar, the rest of us in udaipur do not.
All we wanted to do right from the start, was 'live our lives' but the kothar kept interfering and demanding and abusing.
For their transgressions against us, the kothar were righteously kicked out and humiliated in front of the whole world to see.
We taught them a lesson they will never forget. We won and are still winning to this day.

Understand this humsafar if nothing else.
'Living our lives' is exactly what we fought for, so how dare you mock it.
How dare you.

Would you rather people stayed away in droves like they do now?
Like all the other udaipuris, I felt this place doesnt represent the true ideals of the udaipur jamaat.
Indeed it has too much commentary from people who are against our ideals and our religious beliefs.
Not to mention the fact that asgar ali bhai never supported this place.
And the admin here is unknown and runs the forum with entirely the wrong priorities.
Im sure you must have tried to bring people here?
Please explain why you havent been successful if your reasons are different to mine.

I am not an internet specialist by any means, but changing a few things would greatly help the forum gain more members.
The forum should be upgraded and become more user-friendly.
The constant barrage of wahhabi commentary should be eliminated so that people can actually trust the forum and its posters.
All members should email and whatsapp everyone they know to encourage them to join and participate.
Im sure you and the others here could think of countless more improvements.

I fully maintain my opinion that this forum is not important and wont change the world.
The proof is that this forum has not changed the world, therefore is not important!
Further proof is that only 20 people bother to come here, showing that nobody else believes this place is important either!
You cannot get any more definitive than that.

Despite being unimportant, this place is still good for people to come and chat.
Accept the forum for what it is and enjoy it like you should. Leave your inflated ego at the door.
Please dont try and equate this website and its internet chatter, to the true reformists in udaipur.
Doing so belittles what we went through in udaipur and everything we so proudly accomplished.

'Lose this contrarian, offensive mode and let's discuss issues.'
Hopefully you will be brave enough to take your own advice and practice what you preach.

[Critical_Thinker]

I gather from her post that she is only reporting the suspicions among people she knows who suspect that this place is run by wahhabis and non-Bohras. I do not gather from her post that she has herself made that direct an accusation.

Well, if we have to get technical then yes, she is reporting suspicion - her own and of others. But then she claims thus:

It has been expressed on this forum many times and is mentioned in person whenever you bring this place up.
Most traditional bohras think this is a dubious wahhabi run forum, and many progressives think the same too.
The evidence for this is beyond even the shadow of a doubt.
The fact that only about 20 people post here, and the fact that most of the postings are by wahhabis.
Dont be silly and try to deny this.

The evidence is beyond the shadow of a doubt? Can she produce the evidence?

The evidence is clearly the sentence below the one you bolded.
'The fact that only about 20 people post here, and the fact that most of the postings are by wahhabis.'
Why try to deny it admin bhai?