reformist have missed the golden opportunity!

[maethist]

That is too general. Which wrong do you want me to comment upon?

Well you never asked anyone to comment about Wahabi and Dawoodi Bohra wrongs and you decided to be the judge and jury so why not on Atheism or do you have selective amnesia problem

Wahhabis are Shia-haters. That is all I have said about Wahhabis. I do not believe I have ever commented on any 'Dawoodi Bohra Wrong'. Therefore, I do not accept the charge of being a Judge and Jury on Dawoodi Bohra Rights or Wrongs.

Now you see how I can level a charge of paranoia against you?

Selective amnesia? About what?

Since you betray lack of learning, let me clarify one point about atheism.

Atheism means life lived without God. That is all. All religions, except Buddhism, require 'belief' in God. Atheism does not mean, I repeat, does not mean 'being against religion'. I can elaborate on this but that should suffice for now.

[Biradar]

Sadly, this is now turning into a huge name-calling thread. Not a bad thing, but sad to see people just resort of name-calling like kids on a playground.

A couple of points: Ms. Critical has made a statement that she will reverse her opinions once the membership goes up to 20,000. Please, for the sake of Allah, show me one forum on religion or anything which has that many active participants with a coherent voice. It is possible that the forum is read by 20,000 people or even more. Participants, specially sensible ones, will be only a handful. That is how things work. I have participated in many forums and general there are only a handful, 10-20 who contribute regularly. The number of readers is disproportionately large, as it should be, and is. So, Ms Critical has setup a straw-man argument about the forum's effectiveness.

As to this whole brawl on atheism. As our friend points out, it simply is a lack of belief in existence of god. One can still be very religious, learned in religious history and philosophy, but still lack belief in existence of god. It is really not hard to understand.

Incidentally, another more damming criticism of most members of this forum is that they really are ignorant about Shia, Ismaili and Bohra history and beliefs, and also philosophy in general. Most people here don't know much, and don't want to learn either. Which is perfectly fine, of course, as learning is not a requirement for participation in any case.

In any case, please keep going folks, lets fling out "Wahabbi" to everyone who does not agree with us, till the word totally looses its meaning.

[Ozdundee]

Maethist move on ...call me names whatever ...shut up zip it...honestly it is making no impact to me ..

[Al Zulfiqar]

its patently clear, both maethist and "mentally" critical are running a mutual appreciation society. slapping each other's backs, making totally contradictory statements and self-serving comments as they go along, making up opinions and ridiculous self-invented 'facts' which they try to sell-off as hard truths, calling people by derogatory names, casting unfounded aspersions, slurs and baseless allegations against all and sundry.

what i find amazing is that many senior members are falling for their 'create chaos and light-as-many-fires-as-possible' strategy. they are both agent provocateurs, only interested in creating diversionary disturbances. initially, we all found their postings perhaps a fresh input of thoughts worth debating upon, but they have very soon shown that their real intentions are far more sinister and murky. its not that this forum does not encourage debates from people from all ends of the spectrum, provided that those debates are healthy and contribute to the cause of reform in a positive manner.

by now, it is abjectly clear that both maethist and mentally critical have far from contributing even 0.1% something positive, have simply sought to run down whetever meagre efforts that this forum is undertaking and hurl insults at those who devote their valuable time and efforts to keep this forum going, terming everything as 'insignificant' and unimportant, unworthy, apparently in that entire exercise forgetting that they matter the least, are most insignificant of all and refuse to allow any muck to stick onto themselves.

a point is coming where we will have to decide whether we should allow these 2 miscreants to continue creating this mischief any longer. if they think its because they have managed to scare anyone, then perhaps they are suffering from delusions of self-grandeur and a vastly inflated self-worth. over the years there have been literally hundreds of their sort who have come and gone. we welcome participants, but not those whose sole mission is to come and attempt to destroy the voice of dissent and reason, no matter how feeble, that this forum provides.

we all have lives beyond this forum, busy lives, responsibilities and families, which populate our own individual worlds, but people like mentally critical seem to be living 24/7 on this forum with a vengeance, intent on scattering as much shit around as possible.

i am sure admin is taking notice of the happenings. we all collectively believe in allowing the maximum latitude to dissenters, strident fanatics, abdes, 'dai lovers', progressive haters and even a couple of schizophrenic madmen, but there has to be a limit to everything. this forum is free and tolerant, it does not check the backgrounds of participants, this is a privilege. but having accessed this privilege, does not mean that you bite the hand that feeds you and abuse those privileges to this extent. it would be a mistake for such dubious characters to assume this to be a weakness on the part of this forum or its members.

[maethist]

Al Zulfiqar,

You are being too general. I cannot get a handle on what you are so 'pissed off' about.

Why don't you take a specific issue or comment I have made - and the context in which it was made - and then make a charge.

Your charges are too amorphous and nebulous.

I believe that Admin is already 'pissed' off with me as he has deleted some critical/satirical posts from me about anajmi. However, I will not leave until I am either banned or most participants want me to leave.

My efforts are for clarification of thinking even though I am sometimes not very polite.

By the way, my 'abuses' are always with terms that I have previously defined. anajmi is the exception. He is an object of satirical humor.

[Ozdundee]

M you now got audience from great Az and likes ok feel important and get a life move on

You know we will not call for your ban so you can make a fool of yourself

Critical I have not received your barrage should I be thanking you ? If it makes you feel good go for it but be more creative than M

[canadian]

^
Maethist wrote:
“I will not leave until I am either banned or most participants want me to leave”

This self-hating atheist is under mistaken impression that his puerile, banal writing is humour. May be we should give some sadaqa if he really disappears?

[Al Zulfiqar]

maethist,

for what its worth, i do understand the ire you and many others express about this forum having become a fertile stomping ground for wahabis. that is a charge many others have also levelled over the years. that may be an initial first impression, you have to stick around longer to understand who is who and what over here. there are only 2 hard core non-bohra shia haters here, one MF has been completely banned from the bohras and reform forum and the other anajmi has been allowed under strict limits, provided he does not convert every genuine bohras and reform discussion into a shia/sunni slanging match. the moment any thread veers into that realm again, it is moved to the islam today forum where it usually dies a natural death.

but you cannot blame the shia haters if our present day bohra leadership and their stupid slave abdes (with their shirk and kufr-filled practices and outrageous statements which are getting worse by the day) play into their greedy, ever clutching grasps. whether any anti-shia comes here or not, you will have to agree that what the past 3 dai's have done has given all shia's a bad name. so it is natural that rabid anti-shia use that as fodder to discredit all shias, lumping them together as one, when you know very well that the bohra dai's hate the other shia's as much as they hate the reformists.

you will also very well question why anajmi has been tolerated for so long and allowed to rack up the highest number of posts when he is a fanatic anti-shia, anti-bohra, while he himself is an ex-bohra. to an extent it is unfortunate that he was allowed rampant freedom for so long before he was reined in, precisely because he started abusing the freedoms that this forum grants way beyond the levels of tolerance. you and mentally critical have begun to progress in the same direction. having said that, anajmi has on many occasions, brought in a fresh perspective on the tyranny and extortion of the last 3 dai's and has at many times lent interest to debates with his caustic wit and sharp repartee. that still does not disguise his contempt for shias and in any way condone or forgive his dogmatic, bigoted 1 dimensional approach to islam.

admin has often had a difficult time controlling anajmi's over-zealous approach to islam on the one hand v/s weighing his value to reform. anajmi, being the wag that he is, still delights in surreptitiously stealing in some quick blows below the belt, hoping that the admin is not watching and may not react.

any comments from forum members that appear to condone or conform with anajmi's line of reasoning is purely a coincidence and a natural reaction to the excesses of the bohra clergy. that does not make forum members wahabi's. he himself firmly confesses to not ascribing to the wahabi school of thought, although some of his oft-repeated comments do point somewhat towards that direction. he is a bit of an enigma, a complete scalawag in the grand tradition, who delights in spending huge amounts of time on this forum. that is his choice. we have got used to his eccentricities, i suggest you do the same, within limits.

[maethist]

Al Zulfiqar,

Thank you for your response. I have made it clear that I do not consider anyone except anajmi a wahhabi. I have also very clearly defined what a wahhabi is for this forum. I have simplified the definition to a single aspect, a Shia-hater. That is too simplistic. There is a lot to Wahhabism apart from their hate for the Shia. However those other aspects are not important for the Shia.

I sympathize with your view about Bohra situation. I have made it clear that I do not wish to take part in abde/reformist quarrel. That is internal matter for Bohras. I will observe and may make comments for or against either side. I wish you well.

I believe that long-time participants are quite comfortable with their views and do not want challenges. I was trying to bring incisive clarity to thinking, first and foremost by being pedantic about words used by contributors here. At least that was my aim. But I see that I have ruffled some feathers.

However, I see I have stayed here too long. This will be my last post on this forum.

[anajmi]

Actually, none of the people over here are familiar with the wahhabi school of thought in the least bit. They have no idea what Abdul Wahhab taught. The only idea they have is from other people who got it from other people who got it from other people. I personally know this because I myself have no idea what Abdul Wahhab taught. And being a staunch wahhabi myself (right?) if I don't know what Abdul Wahhab taught, I can pretty much guarantee none of the other's over here know about it. The first time I was called a wahhabi was when I asked why bohras are Dai worshippers, when recently a topiwala abde claimed that there was nothing wrong with worshipping the Dai. Go figure!! And yet, even the supposed smart people like Al Zulfikar are toeing the same line without knowing anything better.

maethist,

I have also very clearly defined what a wahhabi is for this forum. I have simplified the definition to a single aspect, a Shia-hater.

You can't do that maethist. The only way to define a wahhabi so as to do proper justice to the wahhabi school of thought is to spend 7 years, 7 months, 7 days.... you get the point right?

Too bad we won't be hearing from you again.

[Al Zulfiqar]

maethist,

i implore you not to leave this forum. i hope i have not been too severe and was not the cause behind your rather impulsive decision. there are many on this forum who wish you to disappear, many of whom i will be going against. but although you have been all over the place initially, i see the value in some of your thoughts. i for one, respect your beliefs in having become an atheist. that is entirely your right and your choice. there are many closet agnostics and atheists here, believe it or not.

in one particular aspect you and anajmi share the same background. you both were bohras, decided to leave that cult, but then went in different directions. he found his calling in a form of tablighi evangelestical sunni faith, you decided to adopt a 'godless spirituality', if i may term it so. feel free to correct me if i am wrong.

i have no shame in admitting that in the early days on this forum, i too was quite brash, stepped on a lot of toes and ruffled many feathers. there were a lot of hurt feelings and re-adjustments over the years. you see, one eventually settles down and re-aligns one's faith. its all a process of learning, learning about islam, our faith and about oneself. unlike critical, you are open to ideas and i see the germs of some valuable thoughts developing within you.

you will be more of a man, if you change your mind and come back.

[haqniwaat]

Good for you, Al, you've been a bad boy and it's time you apologize!

[topiwala]

anajmi , I cant believe you are saying that you dont know about Muhammad ibn Abdul wahhab there are many books written by him and most have been posted here in this forum by many zealous wahhabis including you , just do a quick search on this forum , you will find hundreds of articles glorifying him here, even the "wahhabi exposed" thread is a decoy as it contains the bio of your shaikh and is frequently on top! and it is not that difficult to find books authored by him free over the internet as most of the sunni muslims are now turning towards wahhabism

[qutub_mamajiwala]

what abdu wahab taught?
first of all he taught to hate everybody who does not belive what he believs and are liable to be killed.
they come under the category wajabul qatl.
secondly he taught to keep women in shackles and treat them as second class citizens without any individual standing of her own----cannot take decision of the own and always need a meharam on behalf of her to take decision. regarding everything like travel, going outside the house, marry etc etc.
it is not important what abdul wahab taught as long as he does not respect others right to belive.

[topiwala]

and now a wahhabi will come and say "No we dont believe all this"!! its best to quote his books before making these statements, or else the wahhabis will keep on thinking that we have a "misunderstanding"

[qutub_mamajiwala]

what misunderstanding bro
it is practiced openly in the so called holiest land saudi arabia by the so called loftly followers of only true islam.
thier justice system is worst in the world, negating every aspect of natural justice. and to think they are following
in the footsteps of prophet as claimed by them---outright lie

[SBM]

what abdu wahab taught?
first of all he taught to hate everybody who does not belive what he believs and are liable to be killed.
they come under the category wajabul qatl.
secondly he taught to keep women in shackles and treat them as second class citizens without any individual standing of her own----cannot take decision of the own and always need a meharam on behalf of her to take decision. regarding everything like travel, going outside the house, marry etc etc.
it is not important what abdul wahab taught as long as he does not respect others right to belive.

Sounds like practices of Current occupants of Saifee Mahal
So when did Kothari Goons of Saifee Mahal became Wahabi

[anajmi]

topiwale, ab topi pinana bandh kar.

If you know of these books and articles, how come you didn't post a single link in your ramblings? I am sure all you wahhabphobes will be able to find the teachings of Abdul Wahhab directly from him. A book by him or his followers perhaps that tell us about him? I don't want teaching of Abdul Wahhab as per qutub, kim ke e bhi loko ne mama banawej.

[Ozdundee]

This topic has drifted to attacking Anajmi and his beliefs .....

Seriously guys what has happened ..may be we have run out of real topics and ideas so we think let us attack each other ..

..which faith next ..?

Why am I standing up for Anajmi..because even though we have clashed many times..he deserves respect as a human being . Husain AS taught me that one should protect the harassed or oppressed.

We attack SMS because he is in position of power. If SMS resigned i would stop attacking him.

[Al Zulfiqar]

admin, pls lock this topic. it has run its course and there is nothing more to be said.