Critical Thinker is a problem like natkhat pari was

[think_for_yourself]

As such, the best way to deal with her is to ignore her. I don't believe that she is here to contribute to or to further any discussion.

[anajmi]

Why ignore her? Solve the problem. Respond to her. Show her she is full of crap. Putting your head in the sand is no solution.

[Biradar]

As such, the best way to deal with her is to ignore her. I don't believe that she is here to contribute to or to further any discussion.

Please, why don't you think for yourself? She is probably just venting frustration and projecting her own ineffectualness on this forum in general. You can ignore her, but responding to her and trying to address her points is a better option. It helps to clarify our own position and thoughts when someone criticizes them. So, I hate to admit, I partly agree with anajmi. Never thought that day would come.

[Ummul Bani]

I agree as well.
There is absolutely no need to ignore anybody here. It does no good.


I think, in the past too, we have had a few members harboring such doubts about the forum, the admin, the reform movement etc. There is a possibility of encountering similar members in the future too.
This should not be taken as an attack or accusation but should rather be welcomed as criticism.
It would be a good idea to address the concerns and understand where they are coming from and why they think the way they think.

One good thing is, this forum acts as a platform to clarify all such misunderstandings that people might have. It is a chance that simply cannot be missed.

Just my two cents!!

[Critical_Thinker]

As such, the best way to deal with her is to ignore her. I don't believe that she is here to contribute to or to further any discussion.

Please could you quote the post I made which seems to have upset you so much.
Then explain in detail why you disagree with what I said so vehemently, that you want everybody to ignore me.
If you cannot do that, then perhaps you are the one who should be ignored?

[Critical_Thinker]

As such, the best way to deal with her is to ignore her. I don't believe that she is here to contribute to or to further any discussion.

Please, why don't you think for yourself? She is probably just venting frustration and projecting her own ineffectualness on this forum in general. You can ignore her, but responding to her and trying to address her points is a better option. It helps to clarify our own position and thoughts when someone criticizes them. So, I hate to admit, I partly agree with anajmi. Never thought that day would come.

Biradar bhai, as you are one of the few intelligent people here, Im quite surprised that you think I am frustrated.
Its quite obvious that I'm not at all, by the lack of anger and swearing in my posts and the calm and honest manner in which I debate.
This is very much a rarity on the forum as it seems lies and name-calling is the norm.

From what I can tell, there are a number of groups here who definitely are extremely frustrated, none of which I belong to:

1. People who are frustrated by the kothar
I am a member of the progressive jamaat so the kothar are of no consequence to me.

2. People who are frustrated by SMS
Again, as a progressive, SMS is of no consequence to me.

3. People who are frustrated by SKQ
Personally I think he is a breath of fresh air, so welcome his arrival on the scene.

4. People who are frustrated by the progressives
That is their problem, not mine.

5. People who are frustrated that bohras are shia
Again, that is their problem, not mine.

6. People who are frustrated by being insignificant
Unlike other members here, I have no delusions about being an extremely important person who will change the world by posting words online, which are read by less than 20 people.
I am perfectly happy being an insignificant nobody on the internet who is merely here to chit-chat and pass the time.
This is only an obscure little forum, so Im amused by people who think their posts will have any kind of major impact in the real world.

I would appreciate you explaining why you think Im frustrated, because if anything, I am the only one here who is not frustrated.

You also mentioned being ineffectual.
What do you imagine I want to effect?
How exactly are you effectual and to what end?

[humanbeing]

Unlike other members here, I have no delusions about being an extremely important person who will change the world by posting words online, which are read by less than 20 people.
I am perfectly happy being an insignificant nobody on the internet who is merely here to chit-chat and pass the time.
This is only an obscure little forum, so Im amused by people who think their posts will have any kind of major impact in the real world.

Critical Thinker

I understand your stuck in beleiving that this forum is insginficant. On your standards of judgement, I take everything as insignificant.

Formation of progressie jamat - yet kothar is thriving
Anti-courruption burea – yet there is rampant corruption
National human right commission - yet there are human right violations on large scale
Povert alleviation efforts - yet there are millions of poor out there
etc etc etc.

Yet you want to be a member on this forum and express your thoughts, for time pass and chit chat. Do let us know if you have knowledge of any other avenues and forums which are exceptionally significant. Even if this forum is read by miniscule people why denounce it ? if you think such forums are effective in any way. Tell official progressie jamaat to open one and make them significant.


I actively promote this forum in my social circles, I am more surprised, when people talk about this forums in orthodox thaal circles. I hear negative / postive reviews of this forums from bohras and abdes.. negative or positive, this forum is getting publicity and visited/read upon regulalrly. Many a times, the discussions are similar and points put forward by bohras are resonating in these threads.


During several sabaks and bayans, amils have mentioned this forum and advised abdes not to visit.
Zeninfosys, malumaat once were openly accessible website, they turned their security access high after the photos were discussed threadbear on this forum
Many posting of the members are circulated in bohra watsapp circles, now increassing its audience.


What more significance you want out of this forum ? We all are doing are bit in every possible way to speak against opression, not only by kothar, but in world generally. This forum is one of the medium and not the only medium to speak up. I am member of several other social, religious and professional forums.


Stop judging and start contrubuting. Atleast be loyal to the opportunity to have your thoughts expressed, read and responded to, even by a single person. No one is forcing you to stay here, niether asking you to leave.

[Critical_Thinker]

Unlike other members here, I have no delusions about being an extremely important person who will change the world by posting words online, which are read by less than 20 people.
I am perfectly happy being an insignificant nobody on the internet who is merely here to chit-chat and pass the time.
This is only an obscure little forum, so Im amused by people who think their posts will have any kind of major impact in the real world.

Critical Thinker

I understand your stuck in beleiving that this forum is insginficant. On your standards of judgement, I take everything as insignificant.

Formation of progressie jamat - yet kothar is thriving
Anti-courruption burea – yet there is rampant corruption
National human right commission - yet there are human right violations on large scale
Povert alleviation efforts - yet there are millions of poor out there
etc etc etc.

Yet you want to be a member on this forum and express your thoughts, for time pass and chit chat. Do let us know if you have knowledge of any other avenues and forums which are exceptionally significant. Even if this forum is read by miniscule people why denounce it ? if you think such forums are effective in any way. Tell official progressie jamaat to open one and make them significant.


I actively promote this forum in my social circles, I am more surprised, when people talk about this forums in orthodox thaal circles. I hear negative / postive reviews of this forums from bohras and abdes.. negative or positive, this forum is getting publicity and visited/read upon regulalrly. Many a times, the discussions are similar and points put forward by bohras are resonating in these threads.


During several sabaks and bayans, amils have mentioned this forum and advised abdes not to visit.
Zeninfosys, malumaat once were openly accessible website, they turned their security access high after the photos were discussed threadbear on this forum
Many posting of the members are circulated in bohra watsapp circles, now increassing its audience.


What more significance you want out of this forum ? We all are doing are bit in every possible way to speak against opression, not only by kothar, but in world generally. This forum is one of the medium and not the only medium to speak up. I am member of several other social, religious and professional forums.


Stop judging and start contrubuting. Atleast be loyal to the opportunity to have your thoughts expressed, read and responded to, even by a single person. No one is forcing you to stay here, niether asking you to leave.

I have never denounced this forum, indeed I have said it is a good place for debate.
What I have said is that this forum will not change much, which is merely a statement of fact.
I would say this about all internet forums because it is the real world that matters.
What we achieved in udaipur was not due to people posting online was it? (The internet didnt even exist back then!)

However this forum would gain a degree of significance if it had a large active membership.
I am trying to make this place more welcoming to bohras and I hope you will join me in this regard.
Far too many posters here are ruining the name of the progressives which naturally means very few people come here.

You say that many people read this forum but looking at the number of views on threads clearly shows otherwise.
At most there are 100-200 viewers here, in fact if you divide the number of views by the number of replies, you get an even lower figure.
We must do our best to increase the audience and participation of this website, otherwise we are merely talking to ourselves.

Ive already contributed almost 100 times here so am confused as to why you think I am not?
And to correct you, several people have started a campaign to get me banned, which is another way of being asked to leave!
In fact this very thread is instructing people to ignore me, or did you not notice?

[SBM]

And to correct you, several people have started a campaign to get me banned, which is another way of being asked to leave!

And what proof do you have or YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO SHOW YOUR IMPORTANCE?
First you say there are few people here and then you say SEVERAL people have started to get you banned.Stop making yourself that important I wonder if you are even from Udaipur? Sounds some one trying to give too much importance to herself
Your posting in Maatam Subjugation" I do not know how traditional Bohra do Maatam" is laughable since many pictures and postings from Zenifosys has been re posted on this very forum.

but I wouldnt know if the traditional jamaat do either.
I will ask some of my traditional friends and relatives about this and get back to you.

Critical_Thinker

Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:22 pm

[Humsafar]

Critical_Thinker,
I'm glad you have changed your tack. Look at your initial posts, you came out swinging again this website, this forum and everything that they stand for. You did denounce it as insignificant and pointless, and from the contempt you showed it, it seemed as it's very existence was an affront to you. And of course you famously denounced it as a Wahabbi project, without a shred of evidence. And you invoked "most people in Udaipur say so" to support your denunciations. I only point this out, not to rub salt, but to show that you have come quite a distance. And I applaud that.

Good to see you coming to the defence of the progressives, this website and this forum. And I don't mean to patronize you when I say this. Yes, more participation and more focused discussion will really help. It's true, forums and the internet do not bring about revolutions, but things are changing. We can't ignore the power of the social media, the Arab Spring would not have been such a phenomenon without the internet. Anyway, let's all do our bit to promote our cause, and by every means available to us. And I hope you would not come here just to chit chat and pass the time.

[Critical_Thinker]

And to correct you, several people have started a campaign to get me banned, which is another way of being asked to leave!

And what proof do you have or YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO SHOW YOUR IMPORTANCE?
First you say there are few people here and then you say SEVERAL people have started to get you banned.Stop making yourself that important I wonder if you are even from Udaipur? Sounds some one trying to give too much importance to herself
Your posting in Maatam Subjugation" I do not know how traditional Bohra do Maatam" is laughable since many pictures and postings from Zenifosys has been re posted on this very forum.

but I wouldnt know if the traditional jamaat do either.
I will ask some of my traditional friends and relatives about this and get back to you.

Critical_Thinker

Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:22 pm

Yes, several people most certainly want me to leave and are even warning people against me, like the person who started this very thread.
You want proof in addition to this thread? Here are a few samples:
al zufiqar: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10271&start=90#p146132
humsafar: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10271&start=60#p146016
ghulam mohammedt: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10235&start=60#p145912
ozdundee: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10271&start=60#p146054
Im sure I will eventually get around to replying to them all when I get the time.
I wonder if you also want me to go SBM?

Why does being so unpopular make me important?
Please explain as this is what you obviously believe.
I am just as unimportant as you, and perhaps just as unpopular among certain members.

Yes there are very few posters here, only about 20.
Saying that a handful of them want me gone equals several doesnt it.

You really should post the full quote, which was in reply to this comment: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4868&p=149009#p149163

Please do let us know, if progressive jamaats does :
Maatam majlises for tulul umr ? if yes, then whose tulul umr ?
Maatam between fard prayers ?
Maatam at Nikaah, salrgirah, iftetah ?
Maatam at welcome of a Kothari position holder ?
Maatam before embarking on a journey ?
Maatam before starting an exam ?
Maatam before starting your day at business ?
Maatam to fill a pause in the bayaans ?

My FULL reply to this comment was this, which you very deceitfully editted:

No, the progressive jamaat does not do matam like this but I wouldnt know if the traditional jamaat do either.
I will ask some of my traditional friends and relatives about this and get back to you.

If you had any sense, youd see the context of my reply to humanbeing bhai.
He listed a number of matams which he says the traditional bohras do.
I am not aware of what he listed so said I will find out to verify.

Yet again SBM, you show how limited your intellectual capacity is.
Your entire post is ridiculous beyond belief.

[Critical_Thinker]

Critical_Thinker,
I'm glad you have changed your tack. Look at your initial posts, you came out swinging again this website, this forum and everything that they stand for. You did denounce it as insignificant and pointless, and from the contempt you showed it, it seemed as it's very existence was an affront to you. And of course you famously denounced it as a Wahabbi project, without a shred of evidence. And you invoked "most people in Udaipur say so" to support your denunciations. I only point this out, not to rub salt, but to show that you have come quite a distance. And I applaud that.

Good to see you coming to the defence of the progressives, this website and this forum. And I don't mean to patronize you when I say this. Yes, more participation and more focused discussion will really help. It's true, forums and the internet do not bring about revolutions, but things are changing. We can't ignore the power of the social media, the Arab Spring would not have been such a phenomenon without the internet. Anyway, let's all do our bit to promote our cause, and by every means available to us. And I hope you would not come here just to chit chat and pass the time.

I have scanned through every single one of my posts humsafar:

I cannot find where I ever said I was against this forum and everything it stood for.
Please quote the posts you mean.

I cannot find where I ever denounced the forum or showed it contempt.
Please quote the posts you mean.

I cannot find where I ever said that the existence of this forum was an affront to me.
Please quote the posts you mean.

If you cannot provide these quotes from me, then please have the decency to admit you were lying.
If that level of honesty is too much for you, then at least say you were exaggerating or being creative with the truth.

What I have said, is that this place is merely a website on the internet so obviously wont change anything.
As this forum is not going to change anything, then it must by definition be insignificant to the big scheme of things.
I repeated this yet again, right here on this thread in my post above didnt I.
It seems everybody wishes to criticise me for thinking this, which I find very strange.
They need to remember that the revolution in udaipur and this forum are two separate entities.
It shows no respect to the struggle and sacrifice of udaipur, nor does it honour what we achieved in udaipur, if the 20 internet posters here think the forum is achieving the same thing.
Udaipuris did far more than just type on keyboards, as you well know humsafar.

Personally, I dont have any grandiose intentions about changing the world, nor do most other udaipuris.
I come here simply to keep tabs on current events and have interesting, sometimes even entertaining conversations with people.
Why do you come here humsafar? Do you intend to change the world or are you the same as me?

As for this forum being a wahhabi enterprise, no I didnt say that either.
I said that many other people think that, which explains why so few people are active here.
I understand why others think this, as there is so much wahhabi commentary/sympathy here, but I personally do not believe the forum is run by wahhabis.
In fact I have a completely different 'conspiracy theory' about this place which is far more plausible.

You may remember me mentioning the fact that asghar ali bhai never came here.
Its a great shame that he didnt, as Im sure this would have brought an avalanche of people here.
Its also why I have a nagging doubt about this place, but that is slowly diminishing now that Im getting to know people.

I also mentioned that the forum does not represent the ideals of the udaipur jamaat.
This will only change when there are more bohras here than non-bohras.
Lets hope this happens soon.
However admin has stated that this website is not intended to represent the udaipuris, so its unlikely to ever happen, which is a shame.
He is the owner so can run things as he pleases, we are merely vocal spectators.

Incidentally, when you scan through my posts, you will be surprised to find Ive actually complimented this website and the admin.
I said this even though I believe he gives far too much freedom and needs to curtail the amount of anti-shia nonsense and pathetic name-calling.
This will naturally turn people away and prevent the forum from growing, which is why it has remained so small for so long.

You are right in saying that forums will not bring about a revolution, this has been my point all along humsafar.
But you are wrong in saying things are changing, unless you mean changing for the worse.
We both know the kothar are even richer and more powerful today, then they were decades ago when udaipur revolted.
The sad fact is that most traditional bohras like (or at least can tolerate) things the way they are.
I wish them well and hope they never have to suffer the kind of indignity that udaipur endured.

You raise a very valid point about the arab spring.
This is precisely why I say that forums are insignificant.
It does no good if people just sit in front of their computers all day long crying like babies.
What they need to do is harness the power of the internet and use it to take action in the real world and create the change they want.
This is only possible if you have the support of a large (ie significant) number of people.
Like Ive said before, this place needs to be thriving with thousands of posters.
The forum would then be a force to be reckoned with.

Unfortunately we both know that there are only about 20 posters here.
Which means the forum is not a force to be reckoned with.
Therefore I hope you dont mind if I continue to just chitchat and pass the time.
Hopefully my chitchatting will make the forum more welcoming to bohras so we can gain more members.
Its unfortunate that most posters here spend their time doing the exact opposite.

[zinger]

Let me say something, and i say this with most humbleness

i have been viewing this forum for the longest time, close to 6 years now.

i came on board only recently.

i will disagree when people say that this forum is insignificant, its not. there a number of messages from here the catch like wildfire on whatsapp everyday. infact my condemnation of the incident in Raudat Tahera when sons of ex-Mazun Maula were manhandled was circulated verbatim in the next 24 hours. more and more people are discussing the topics here. maybe they do not visit the site personally, but messages and discussions from here reach them

yet, i will agree with what critical thinker is saying. she is voicing exactly what i have been saying for so long. it will be next to impossible to get any kind of bohra participation, atleast not from Dawoodi Bohras (reformists bohras will always be here by default), until and unless people clean up their act here. and by cleaning up their act, i mean cleaning out the rubbish that is here.

until you have viruses and people who insult not just the dai and his position but the imam and the shia school of thought, you are getting nowhere buddy, and that is the real truth

now for the other part of her post. yes, it is very clear that certain elements here want her banned,
in fact i have been seeing this trend in senior members quite recently of late

whenever a traditional dawoodi bohra comes here and starts swinging bats, you guys want him banned because he is pissing you off by not accepting that all is not well in the community, fine. your forum, your rules
however, when a neutral party comes here and shows the mirror to you, that this forum has not been able to achieve its full potential, that there is so much more you can do besides sit behind computer screens and misnomers, you suddenly become all aggressive and defensive and start crying for that member to be banned. First it was mathiest, then kansas, then fayyaz and now critical thinker

why???? is the face looking back at you from the mirror to ugly to see? or is that the truth is indeed too bitter a pill a swallow?

many of us from the traditional dawoodi bohra side are not liking what we are looking at when we are being shown the mirror and are accepting this fact that all is not well. suggest you guys do the same too.

be brave. own up that there is a lot that needs to be done. dont go on a witch hunt just cause the truth hurts

[qutub_mamajiwala]

@critical thinker
yes internet does not bring in revolution.
but it certainly changes the thought process, and that somehow will trickle down in the real world in their actions.
that is precisely what internet is for.
internet by definition is a virtual world, it does not and cannot do anything in real world.
thinks happen in real world by actions of people who have changed their thinking and that is what internet is trying to achieve.

[Humsafar]

Critical Thinker,
Let me just remind you that my post was supposed to be conciliatory. We did have a rough start, I admit. But that is so much water under the bridge. Your are a reformist from Udaipur, I'm a reformist from Udaipur. We are on the same side. We are allies. Our cause and our fight is the same. Let us not waste our time and energies on arguing with each other, instead let us work together. You are right, Udaipur is not adequately represented here so let's try to correct that bias. You have already made an excellent start with the thread on Udaipur progressives. Let's continue doing more of it.

[Critical_Thinker]

Let me say something, and i say this with most humbleness

i have been viewing this forum for the longest time, close to 6 years now.

i came on board only recently.

i will disagree when people say that this forum is insignificant, its not. there a number of messages from here the catch like wildfire on whatsapp everyday. infact my condemnation of the incident in Raudat Tahera when sons of ex-Mazun Maula were manhandled was circulated verbatim in the next 24 hours. more and more people are discussing the topics here. maybe they do not visit the site personally, but messages and discussions from here reach them

yet, i will agree with what critical thinker is saying. she is voicing exactly what i have been saying for so long. it will be next to impossible to get any kind of bohra participation, atleast not from Dawoodi Bohras (reformists bohras will always be here by default), until and unless people clean up their act here. and by cleaning up their act, i mean cleaning out the rubbish that is here.

until you have viruses and people who insult not just the dai and his position but the imam and the shia school of thought, you are getting nowhere buddy, and that is the real truth

now for the other part of her post. yes, it is very clear that certain elements here want her banned,
in fact i have been seeing this trend in senior members quite recently of late

whenever a traditional dawoodi bohra comes here and starts swinging bats, you guys want him banned because he is pissing you off by not accepting that all is not well in the community, fine. your forum, your rules
however, when a neutral party comes here and shows the mirror to you, that this forum has not been able to achieve its full potential, that there is so much more you can do besides sit behind computer screens and misnomers, you suddenly become all aggressive and defensive and start crying for that member to be banned. First it was mathiest, then kansas, then fayyaz and now critical thinker

why???? is the face looking back at you from the mirror to ugly to see? or is that the truth is indeed too bitter a pill a swallow?

many of us from the traditional dawoodi bohra side are not liking what we are looking at when we are being shown the mirror and are accepting this fact that all is not well. suggest you guys do the same too.

be brave. own up that there is a lot that needs to be done. dont go on a witch hunt just cause the truth hurts

Zinger bhai, I have seen many people mention whatsapp as a measure of this forums 'significance'.
I honestly see that as another sign of this forums insignificance.

1. How many people are getting these whatsapp messages?
You obviously feel that countless people all over the world are receiving them because you and your friends do.
I believe this is far from being the reality.
What we have is a small 'circle' of people viewing this forum who number only a few hundred.
This small group of people forward messages to each other all the time, so to people within this 'circle' it can appear that this forum is spreading like wildfire.
Unfortunately the vast overwhelming majority of bohras are not in this small 'circle' so they have no idea what is going on at all.

2. How many people take whatsapp messages seriously?
Everybody gets all kinds of silly messages and immediately deletes them.
Whatsapp is simply not a medium for deep intellectual discussion about something as important as religion.

3. Whatsapp messages do not give any depth or context.
To an average bohra in the traditional jamaat, a whatsapp message full of insult and abuse will be instantly dismissed.
They will not read it thoroughly and take anything onboard because they only see the tip of the iceberg.
Without them knowing the full story behind the message, and seeing verified evidence of its claims, it will merely reinforce the perception that the progressives and reform are against the bohra faith and community.
In this regard, whatsapp is actually highly counter-productive.

4. What do these whatsapp messages lead to?
If you are right zinger bhai, and many people are receiving these messages and taking them seriously, then why arent there more people coming to the forum?
Surely they would want to see the source and want to find out more, but in reality nobody cares and this place is virtually empty.

The same points could be said about email and facebook etc.

What we need is more participation on the forum zinger bhai, that is the one and only measure of true significance.

If people cannot even bother to take part on an internet forum, in complete secrecy, from the comfort of their home, then do you think they will make the effort to do anything important in the real world against the kothar? Of course they wont.

As for this forum needing to be cleaned up, you are absolutely correct.
However this place has been the same since it first started, so its unlikely to change now.
I personally believe admin is under pressure from the kothar to keep the forum small and therefore irrelevant.
If it was allowed to grow large, then the kothar would unleash their money and manpower to shut the website down.
This is purely my own 'conspiracy theory' which I think is far more plausible then the commonly held belief that the website is wahhabi enterprise.

[Critical_Thinker]

@critical thinker
yes internet does not bring in revolution.
but it certainly changes the thought process, and that somehow will trickle down in the real world in their actions.
that is precisely what internet is for.
internet by definition is a virtual world, it does not and cannot do anything in real world.
thinks happen in real world by actions of people who have changed their thinking and that is what internet is trying to achieve.

I agree qutub bhai, but where is the change that should be trickling down?
Where is the action of people who have changed their thinking?
There is none to see at all.
Unfortunately we are a small band of people who are merely preaching to the tiny choir.
Nobody else is taking any notice of us.
I have accepted this, yet most others dont want to.
I think this is because they desperately want a revolution, and feel this place is the only chance they have of getting one.

[SBM]

CT
If you find this forum insignificant why are you wasting your time and energy here. I do not think you are even part of Udaipuri Progressive group
You and Resident Profiler keep on harping about bringing changes but so far devoid of any positive ideas except to TOTTE KEE RUUT that this forum is insignificant and has not made any impact and many die hard abdes are not vising this forum so what is your answer WHY NOT START YOUR OWN FORUM AND ACHIEVE WHAT THIS FORUM IS NOT ACHIEVING but stop whining and complaining

[anajmi]

A couple of days ago, when I tried to access the forum, I got an error message saying that the maximum number of participants has been reached. Even gave me a number, something in excess of 1200.

So when critical thinker says this forum is insignificant, he, she, it, is just full of hot air.

[ghulam muhammed]

A couple of days ago, when I tried to access the forum, I got an error message saying that the maximum number of participants has been reached. Even gave me a number, something in excess of 1200.

I second that !

[Critical_Thinker]

Critical Thinker,
Let me just remind you that my post was supposed to be conciliatory. We did have a rough start, I admit. But that is so much water under the bridge. Your are a reformist from Udaipur, I'm a reformist from Udaipur. We are on the same side. We are allies. Our cause and our fight is the same. Let us not waste our time and energies on arguing with each other, instead let us work together. You are right, Udaipur is not adequately represented here so let's try to correct that bias. You have already made an excellent start with the thread on Udaipur progressives. Let's continue doing more of it.

Conciliatory?
If we are allies on the same side humsafar, why did you not apologise for lying about me?
Instead youve decided to patronize me.

You say that our 'cause' and our 'fight' is the same.
As youve said that you dont believe in the imam, I am curious what is your cause and what is your fight humsafar?
All true udaipuri progressives do believe in the imam and a dai.
Where does this leave you humsafar, which community do you belong to?

You agree that udaipur is not represented here.
So why havent you been doing anything to change that in all the years youve been here?
From what I can tell, your views are one of the main reasons why the forum has such a misconception about udaipur.

[SBM]

If we are allies on the same side humsafar, why did you not apologise for lying about me?
Instead youve decided to patronize me.

It seems CT is taking humility of Humsafar as weakness.
Lady get out of your head that you are an important person on this forum. What have you contributed to this forum financially or otherwise that one needs to patronize you
You and Fayyaz seems to get over your head that you are too important and this forum will not survive without you. Get lost and get life

[Al Zulfiqar]

I honestly see that as another sign of this forums insignificance.

in reality nobody cares and this place is virtually empty.

What we need is more participation on the forum, that is the one and only measure of true significance.

.. this place has been the same since it first started, so its unlikely to change now.
I personally believe admin is under pressure from the kothar to keep the forum small and therefore irrelevant.
If it was allowed to grow large, then the kothar would unleash their money and manpower to shut the website down.
.

wow, wow and wow! there goes ct again. obviously the question arises what is the great critically thinking thought-analyst ct doing here on this insignificant forum, about which nobody cares and is virtually empty, is the same since it started, i.e. stupid and irrelevant, and whose admin is in cahoots (on the payroll) with the kothar to keep this site small and irrelevant.

ct, with your great intellect, analytical brain and superb connections why dont you accomplish the job, which in your highly studied opinion, this site has been unable to complete? why dont you start your own website, motivate atleast 75% of udaipuri reformists to join there and actively participate? you seem to have tons of time to waste, to criticise, to indulge in idle chit-chat, to provoke fights, why not utilise that time to do something constructive with your life in your reformist mission? if all you can do is whine and complain, then you are a bigger enemy of reform than the abdes themselves.

your crying wolf all the time is getting tiresome. we have already reached the point where your baying and barking is becoming as inconsequential as your useless posts.

[Critical_Thinker]

CT
If you find this forum insignificant why are you wasting your time and energy here. I do not think you are even part of Udaipuri Progressive group
You and Resident Profiler keep on harping about bringing changes but so far devoid of any positive ideas except to TOTTE KEE RUUT that this forum is insignificant and has not made any impact and many die hard abdes are not vising this forum so what is your answer WHY NOT START YOUR OWN FORUM AND ACHIEVE WHAT THIS FORUM IS NOT ACHIEVING but stop whining and complaining

Like I have said many times, I come here to pass the time.
People like you are the ones who spend all day whining and complaining on the internet, but never do anything in the real world.
You are the ones who seem to believe this place is so very important, and pathetically spend your whole lives here.
My opinion is different and I am free to express it, just as much as you are free to express your opinion.
If you dont like that, then go and start your own forum SBM.
(Which would probably gain even fewer posters than this place)

As for you not believing I am an udaipuri, who cares what you think?
It is a certainty that you are not a progressive by reading any of your posts.
Indeed it is a certainty that you are not even a shia, so have absolutely nothing to do with the bohra community.

[Critical_Thinker]

A couple of days ago, when I tried to access the forum, I got an error message saying that the maximum number of participants has been reached. Even gave me a number, something in excess of 1200.

So when critical thinker says this forum is insignificant, he, she, it, is just full of hot air.

I doubt this happened as lying is your trademark isnt it anajmi.
If 1200 people are coming here, then why do only 20 people bother to participate?
Is it because the other 1180 people think this place is not worth it because its insignificant?
Or is it because they think its full of wahhabi liars and hypocrites like you?

In the unlikely event that what you say did actually happen, the number you saw was probably 200.
As that is the highest number of readers here according to the number of views on threads.

Im sure youd like to think you are very influential.
But the truth is you are irrelevant and inconsequential.
You should come here just to pass the time like me, instead of pretending you are important.

[fayyaaz]

when I tried to access the forum, I got an error message saying that the maximum number of participants has been reached. Even gave me a number, something in excess of 1200.

Many forums show the number of people currently viewing the forum, separately enumerating members and guests and also the maximum number of visitors on any given day. Maybe Admin could implement this feature here and at the same time gather daily statistics so we can all be aware of how many visitors this forum has.

[Critical_Thinker]

If we are allies on the same side humsafar, why did you not apologise for lying about me?
Instead youve decided to patronize me.

It seems CT is taking humility of Humsafar as weakness.
Lady get out of your head that you are an important person on this forum. What have you contributed to this forum financially or otherwise that one needs to patronize you
You and Fayyaz seems to get over your head that you are too important and this forum will not survive without you. Get lost and get life

This does beg the question of how much money you have paid to the forum sbm?
Perhaps that is why admin allows you (and others) to speak so much nonsense here?

It seems your usual lack of context has made you confuse the meaning of the word patronize.
Look here: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/patronize
What I was conveying in my reply to humsafar was:
'3. To treat in a condescending manner'
If you must reply to my posts sbm, please read them slowly and several times, so you understand what Im saying correctly.

Where have I ever said that I am important?
Please quote the post, if you cant then you are a liar.
I have actually said the opposite, that I am as insignificant as you.

Where have I ever said that the forum will not survive without me?
Please quote the post, if you cant then you are a liar.
The forum was around for years before I joined and it will be around for years if I leave.
Its the same with you sbm, the forum would survive without you quite easily, whether you pay admin or not.

Get lost and get life
Thank you for the suggestion sbm, Im glad you wish me to leave as it encourages me to stay.
If anybody needs to get a life, it would be you and the others who come here every single day and build up thousands upon thousands of posts!

[Al Zulfiqar]

... lack of context has made you confuse the meaning of the word patronize.
Look here: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/patronize
'3. To treat in a condescending manner'
so you understand what Im saying correctly.

ct, since you have a lot of free time and are wasting it in idle chit chat, why not start english language classes? forum members are willing to pay you. you can do this online and earn some bucks instead of venting your frustrations [DELETED]

[Critical_Thinker]

I honestly see that as another sign of this forums insignificance.

in reality nobody cares and this place is virtually empty.

What we need is more participation on the forum, that is the one and only measure of true significance.

.. this place has been the same since it first started, so its unlikely to change now.
I personally believe admin is under pressure from the kothar to keep the forum small and therefore irrelevant.
If it was allowed to grow large, then the kothar would unleash their money and manpower to shut the website down.
.

wow, wow and wow! there goes ct again. obviously the question arises what is the great critically thinking thought-analyst ct doing here on this insignificant forum, about which nobody cares and is virtually empty, is the same since it started, i.e. stupid and irrelevant, and whose admin is in cahoots (on the payroll) with the kothar to keep this site small and irrelevant.

ct, with your great intellect, analytical brain and superb connections why dont you accomplish the job, which in your highly studied opinion, this site has been unable to complete? why dont you start your own website, motivate atleast 75% of udaipuri reformists to join there and actively participate? you seem to have tons of time to waste, to criticise, to indulge in idle chit-chat, to provoke fights, why not utilise that time to do something constructive with your life in your reformist mission? if all you can do is whine and complain, then you are a bigger enemy of reform than the abdes themselves.

your crying wolf all the time is getting tiresome. we have already reached the point where your baying and barking is becoming as inconsequential as your
useless posts.

As usual you unashamedly lie dont you al zulfiqar.
I did not say that admin was in cahoots or on the payroll of the kothar.
I said the exact opposite, that he is under the threat of the kothar.

I have no agenda, nor does any udaipuri.
We have won the victory we wanted.
Its a shame that you dont join a progressive jamaat yourself.

I wonder if you could let us know what exactly you want to achieve?
And how your compulsive lying and melodramatic exaggeration is helping to accomplish it.

Please define how I am crying wolf?
I think you have confused this phrase, just like you have become confused about reform.

[SBM]

Like I have said many times, I come here to pass the time.

CT
You must have very pathetic life that you come to this insignificant forum to pass time. Seems like if this forum provides you the pastime then either you are a loner or no body wants to socialize with you in real life.