Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

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fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#1

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:35 am

Salaam,

After connecting to this site i got an interest to learn about religion and this interest made me curious to know the reason of each firqah that had happened in islam right from Sunni and Shiah to the formation of Dawoodi Bohra. I had also learned that the leader of each firqah had tried their level best to propagate their religion and their beliefs by preaching all the non-believers, this also include Dawoodi Bohra. Our earlier dais too had taken great pain and risk to spread our Dawoodi culture so that everybody should know what our belief is. This is the reason why our religion spread from Yemen to India and we are app. 1 million (not sure).

In my study i had found many sites had mentioned that we (Dawoodi Bohra) keeps our preaching private and we dont allow the world to know our beliefs, i believe it as true, reason why i believe it as true? i) in our masjid or function outsiders are not allowed ii) we do not deliver any waaz outside our masjid. I had seen Sunni and Shiah openly propagate their religion (especially during moharram) so that every non-muslim knows what their preaching are, infact Hindus and other religion also openly propagate their beliefs. Than why dont we?

My question is
WHY WE KEEP OUR PREACHING's PRIVATE?. I know this was not the case earlier otherwise we would have never grown to what we are today. If our religion is pure (It is), if our religion is harmless (It is), if our religion make us God beloved (it does), than why not let the world knows what we preach?

Members kindly share your opinion on this if you feel what i had written has some reality.

Vas-Salaam

Akhtiar Wahid
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#2

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:47 am

Because the teachings are based on falsehood and worshiping peer baba and Moulais......which if exposed can devastate the community immediately and the general muslimeen (Ahle-Sunna) followers of rashidun caliphate with tarnish this small milli micro sect!

topiwala
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:02 pm

Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#3

Unread post by topiwala » Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:08 pm

what is wrong even if we worship our maula, for us he is everything, Who has giiven the right to wahhabis to come here and object us???? it is only the "microsect" wahhabis which play spoilsport not just with us but all religion and sects!

canadian
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:57 pm

Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#4

Unread post by canadian » Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:20 pm

fustrate_Bohra wrote:Salaam,

After connecting to this site i got an interest to learn about religion and this interest made me curious to know the reason of each firqah that had happened in islam right from Sunni and Shiah to the formation of Dawoodi Bohra. I had also learned that the leader of each firqah had tried their level best to propagate their religion and their beliefs by preaching all the non-believers, this also include Dawoodi Bohra. Our earlier dais too had taken great pain and risk to spread our Dawoodi culture so that everybody should know what our belief is. This is the reason why our religion spread from Yemen to India and we are app. 1 million (not sure).

My question is
WHY WE KEEP OUR PREACHING's PRIVATE?.
Vas-Salaam
The dai wants to be addressed as aqua maula, haq na sahib, gaib na jaankaar, his holiness, natiq e Kaaba, bolta quran, illa ul ardh, ambassador of peace, etc.
The dai wants you to be his abde or amte and to do sajda to him and his relatives.
The dai says his followers should never question him or his relatives about any matter relating to religion, community affairs or financial matters.
A follower has to ask his permission to do anything, whether to name your child, what academic course to take, to carry out any function or any big or small task.
The dai or his relative talks to dead people. The dai appears in a dream to tell a non-bohri about who his successor will be.
Only our dai knew that Husain (a.s.)’s horse could talk and that just before he was martyred, Husain (a.s.) prayed for 51st and 52nd dai’s.
In bohraism, we do not have to follow in Husain (a.s.)’s footsteps, but we should do matam on both happy and sad occasions.
When normal people suffer a stroke, they cannot talk, but our dai can not only talk but can also drink serbet and appoint his successor.
In Islam and most other religions human beings take pride in being free, but only in bohra religion, you are told that you are so lucky and privileged to be the dai’s slave; and in Jannat there are eight levels or positions and you will be so lucky to be at the lowest rank to serve all those above you;
etc., etc.
If our priests let the outside world know about all our rituals, customs, privileges, etc., then surely they will all want to be bohras and then we shall not be the CHOSEN ones any more!

fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
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Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#5

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:21 pm

Topiwala bhai, do you think our religion is perfect? if yes, than why our preaching is kept private? Why our dais dont want to spread our religion?

Request all members to reply in decent manner in order to have healthy debate on this topic.

dawedaar
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Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#6

Unread post by dawedaar » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:52 pm

Topiwala bhai... U say.. "What is wrong even if we worship our maula"... Dude u r not considering even the basic tenet of Islam that is there is no other worthy of worship than Allah... well, I answered ur question.. Nothing else to say..
topiwala wrote:what is wrong even if we worship our maula, for us he is everything, Who has giiven the right to wahhabis to come here and object us???? it is only the "microsect" wahhabis which play spoilsport not just with us but all religion and sects!

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#7

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:38 pm

topiwala wrote:what is wrong even if we worship our maula, for us he is everything,
now after reading this, topiwala, your topi will need to be shredded. you are not worthy of being called a muslim, nor a shia. call yourself a mufaddali rafdi and then do what you please.

Moiz_Dhaanu
Posts: 366
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#8

Unread post by Moiz_Dhaanu » Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:59 pm

topiwala wrote:what is wrong even if we worship our maula, for us he is everything, Who has giiven the right to wahhabis to come here and object us???? it is only the "microsect" wahhabis which play spoilsport not just with us but all religion and sects!
Mr Topiwala ,
First get your basic understanding of islam and imaan straight ( u seem to be having a convoluted thinking which was taught by YN and his brothers) .
The way Panjetaan Paak(AS) , Aimmat tahereen and Duat have taught all their lives is to "Worship" Allah Subhanahu and follow the Haq na Wali in the right path....you just warped the whole thing around and said "worship dai" ...in simple language you just did "Gulu"
Well what can i even expect from followers of DMBS. :?
P.S. DMBS = Dawedaar Mufaddal Bhai Saheb
YN = Yusuf najmuddin bhaisaheb

fustrate_Bohra
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Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#9

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:46 am

Am curious to know what die hard followers of 51st, 52nd n 53rd(both dai) have to say on this topic. More importantly do they accept that our preaching are kept private.

topiwala
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:02 pm

Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#10

Unread post by topiwala » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:52 am

ofcourse the ismaili fatmid aqeeda and traditions do explicitly enforce that our teachings of taweel be kept secret untill the zahoor of Imam AS and now it is even more important to do so esp since these wahhabis are hellbent to use our teachings against us only because they dont match theirs. Infact those who leak and discuss taweeli ilm with others are traitors of the oath and fatimi traditions.

And this is not just taught by the past 3 daees but since dai zoeb RA , and even if you ask the clerics of other bohra split factions even they will agree to this.

fustrate_Bohra
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Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#11

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:20 am

Role of the dai was to propagate fatimid belief after the seclusion of our 21st imam and this had been done successfully by all the earlier dais even after preaching privately the result is in front of us, now we are app.1 million world wide. What our last 3 dais did to increase our population?

As far as i understand even shiah also has the belief that their imam are hidden and will come one fine day but my dear brother it does not stop them to propagate their religion openly even though they are aware that some extremist dont like what we (in general shiah) do.

If shiah can openly come out in open with their belief even though their imam are hidden, than why cant we? afterall we are also shiah and more importantly followers of rasoolallah.

SBM
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Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#12

Unread post by SBM » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:50 am

so esp since these wahhabis are hellbent to use our teachings against us only
Topiwala
So you agree that our teachings in private can be misguided if they can be used against us only. If the teachings are good and in line with Islamic Principles how can they be used against us? JUST CONFUSED. Please clarify or you are not supposed to even discuss this under the oath of sabak

Ummul Bani
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:09 am

Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#13

Unread post by Ummul Bani » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:13 am

fustrate_Bohra wrote:do you think our religion is perfect? if yes, than why our preaching is kept private? Why our dais dont want to spread our religion?

Request all members to reply in decent manner in order to have healthy debate on this topic.
Br fustrate_Bohra,
Refer this thread for a similar discussion that happened in the past, it may help.

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 26#p133992

fustrate_Bohra
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Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#14

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:29 am

thanks sister for the reference.

Admin request to kindly merge this thread with

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9726#p133992

Thanks.

topiwala
Posts: 150
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Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#15

Unread post by topiwala » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:09 am

the taweel has interpretations which may cause the wahhabis to declare us kafir. there are many details which i dont want to share but in short the "tawheed" of wahhabis is opposite to the tawheed of ismaili traditions

Akhtiar Wahid
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Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 am

Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#16

Unread post by Akhtiar Wahid » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:53 am

topiwala which world are you living in, please try to step into this era of 21st century, Bohras are already declared Kaafirs, there lots and lots of videos from Muslimeen regarding this, they have boycotted our practices and beliefs!
Bohras are always been ruled by number politics, clergy easily convinces Sheep bohras that we are in less number therefore we are the right ones who are guided!

topiwala
Posts: 150
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Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#17

Unread post by topiwala » Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:26 pm

akhtiyar,'

so you believe those wahhabis who label kafir fatwas and have not even spared Burhanuddin Mola RA? I had seen in this forum that someone had posted fatwas declaring daee and his followers to be kafir! if you believe that too then why are you here?????

Al Zulfiqar
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Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#18

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:06 pm

the only things to be kept private and out of public domain should be matters related to the bedroom and toilet. end of discussion.

DisillusionedDB
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:20 am

Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#19

Unread post by DisillusionedDB » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:03 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote:the only things to be kept private and out of public domain should be matters related to the bedroom and toilet. end of discussion.
Short, sweet and rightly said.
Nothing should be kept hidden .. whether it is the taweel, haqeeqat, ilm .. nothing. If what we believe in is really the 'right' path, then we should be actively involved in propagating it and calling the other so-called 'bhatkela' muslims/momins to this right path. What is the use of harping to others that our deen is the perfect one but we won't/can't tell you anything about it. The very message of the Quran was (and is) to propagate the true deen of Islam.
A related question .. Why should only one family have the rights (and presumably, aql :roll: ) to read, understand, monopolise and not-propagate the vast knowledge at their disposal ? I wouldn't buy the explanation that it is the ONLY family capable of giving birth to geniuses capable of understanding the knowledge. Why are we told that if we try to understand the knowledge, we would go mad ? (Yes, this is what 2 high-ranking miyasaabs have told me)

fustrate_Bohra
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Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#20

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:37 am

False Glorification of Dai's will come to end and secondly
They are satisfied with the current abdes as these abdes are able to generate infinite wealth and slavery for them. So no PROPAGATION require.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#21

Unread post by think » Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:23 pm

well jockey, you got your question answered from the horses mouth himself as to why keep it a big secret by listening to the instructions given by muffy in the 4th or 5th vaez.

Rebel
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Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#22

Unread post by Rebel » Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:27 pm

topiwala wrote:the taweel has interpretations which may cause the wahhabis to declare us kafir. there are many details which i dont want to share but in short the "tawheed" of wahhabis is opposite to the tawheed of ismaili traditions
So in essence, either we are not in the correct path or they aren't. If we are diametrically opposite of each other than there is big difference in the religion itself.

pheonix
Posts: 210
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Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#23

Unread post by pheonix » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:37 am

SBM wrote:
so esp since these wahhabis are hellbent to use our teachings against us only
Topiwala
So you agree that our teachings in private can be misguided if they can be used against us only. If the teachings are good and in line with Islamic Principles how can they be used against us? JUST CONFUSED. Please clarify or you are not supposed to even discuss this under the oath of sabak
Are you acting stupid or are just stupid. Don't you know the mentality of the wahabi dogs. And what they are doing to the rest of the Muslim world. They are brainless idiots who are hell bent on destroying everything that differs from their ideology. They have no business in logic or whether something is right or wrong. It is because of keeping our preachings private that we are a bit safe nowadays otherwise you know what these pigs are doing to Shias in Iraq, Pakistan, Syria etc.

SBM
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#24

Unread post by SBM » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:46 am

^
and what do you think SMS is doing by showing his anger and creating a hate for his own family member and someone he considered Mazoon for 50 years
While ISIL and the hate group who many in Islamic world have denounced are guilty of their hate but here is a known leader who says is appointed by Imam is creating the hate and showing his anger which is the sign of a Satan according to our belief (read the Nashiat of STS --Allah Tala nu hamd tu karjey)

fustrate_Bohra
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Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#25

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:58 am

Phoenix bhai, MS shows his power to those who is less powerful to him for eg. against SKQ saheb and hide like coward to those who is more powerful to him for eg. other major shiah/sunni or wahabi. So actually he is only saving himself and his family in the pretext of saving us.

pheonix
Posts: 210
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Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#26

Unread post by pheonix » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:50 pm

fustrate_Bohra wrote:Phoenix bhai, MS shows his power to those who is less powerful to him for eg. against SKQ saheb and hide like coward to those who is more powerful to him for eg. other major shiah/sunni or wahabi. So actually he is only saving himself and his family in the pretext of saving us.
Ok fine, now try and disclose our preachings to the W's. See whose head gets lopped off first.

anajmi
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#27

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:53 pm

Don't you wanna follow the path of Imam Hussain by declaring the truth? You know his head was also cut off right by the wahhabis right? So if your head gets cut off, people will be doing Maatam for you too and just like Imam Hussain saved Islam, you will save Dawoodi Bohraism.

pheonix
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:32 am

Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#28

Unread post by pheonix » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:57 pm

anajmi wrote:Don't you wanna follow the path of Imam Hussain by declaring the truth? You know his head was also cut off right by the wahhabis right? So if your head gets cut off, people will be doing Maatam for you too and just like Imam Hussain saved Islam, you will save Dawoodi Bohraism.
Hussain to Hussain che. Nobody can follow Hussain.
Sacrifice of Hussain was necessary. If Hussain had did bayat, the wahabi pests would have trampled over true Islam and there would be no Muslim/Momin left, My death wouldn't benefit islam at all.
Your condescending post about Hussain's sacrifice really shows your hate for the Prophet's family.
And once again, Shoo wahabi shoo, don't know why people in this forum keeps this mongrel fed and he keeps coming back.

anajmi
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Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#29

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:03 am

Oh you coward. You guys are good only for beating yourselves. Imagine what will happen when a wahhabi comes to chop your head off. You will fall on the ground and do sajda even to the wahhabi. And you are right, your death will be useless. Bohras like you are useless.

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Why we keep our preaching in PRIVATE?

#30

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:10 am

Hussain to Hussain che. Nobody can follow Hussain.
Then what happened to "live like Ali and die like Hussain"? Hawa nikli gai? Hijaar gili thai gai?