Solemn month of Muharram turns into a celebration

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pro_pig
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Re: SOLEMN MONTH OF MUHARRAM TURNS INTO CELEBRATIONS BY BU

#31

Unread post by pro_pig » Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:54 pm

so like- minded u think,Jesus, Prophet Mohammed,Imam Hussain were all ordinary human beings like us.great think no words for u. keep it up.



pro_pig
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Re: SOLEMN MONTH OF MUHARRAM TURNS INTO CELEBRATIONS BY BU

#32

Unread post by pro_pig » Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:56 pm

like - minded can u tell me to whom you belive?



Muslim First
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Re: SOLEMN MONTH OF MUHARRAM TURNS INTO CELEBRATIONS BY BU

#33

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:42 pm

like minded
can u explain why they hang jeuse when he can perfrom mircales?
you know that jesue perfrom lots of mircales if u know about him?
pls dont make fun. respect them if u cannot shut up !
Pro_pig

Do you knw waht Qur'an says about death of Jesus AS?
(There is no mention of intercession by Imam Hussain in this case but your Maula might say that too)
What is Quranic version of JC's death? I forgot. You are not suppose to know about Qur'an only read it.

Wasalaam
.



pro_pig
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Re: SOLEMN MONTH OF MUHARRAM TURNS INTO CELEBRATIONS BY BU

#34

Unread post by pro_pig » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:32 am

muslim first,
oh, so u believe in quran.when u started?



Muslim First
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Re: SOLEMN MONTH OF MUHARRAM TURNS INTO CELEBRATIONS BY BU

#35

Unread post by Muslim First » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:34 am

Pro-Pig wrote
oh, so u believe in quran .when u started?
so u believe in quran
Yes I do. Very smart of you to figure it out.

when u started?
I don't quite understand the question but logical answer would be since I was born.

Now, did you figure out Qur'anic vesion of JC AS's death?

Wasalaam
.



porus
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Re: SOLEMN MONTH OF MUHARRAM TURNS INTO CELEBRATIONS BY BU

#36

Unread post by porus » Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:56 pm

I would like to correct a couple of factual errors in S. Insaf's post above about the power struggle in the "Royal" family.

Error 1. Khuzema, son of Sayedna Tahir Saifuddin (TS) by Amena, was never declared Mukasir. Instead, TS's brother, Saleh Safiyuddin was the Mukasir. With the death of Saleh, Sayedna Muhammad Burhanuddin (current Dai) appointed his brother Husain the Mukasir which he still is. Both Sayedna and Husain share the same mother, Husaina. Meanwhile Khuzema was appointed Mazoon, which he still is.

Error 2. It was not YN's son who married Sayedna's daughter. It was YN's daughter who married Sayedna's son, Ammar.

So, Sayedna and Mukasir are brothers, (same mother, same father).

Sayedna and Mazoon are step brothers (same father, different mothers).

Present Sayednn has 7 sons and 3 daughters, all by same wife, Amatullah.

Favorite to succeed as Dai was Mufaddal, third child, until recently. But all his children are getting on in age and it is possible that one of hi grand children will be the next Dai.



porus
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Re: SOLEMN MONTH OF MUHARRAM TURNS INTO CELEBRATIONS BY BU

#37

Unread post by porus » Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:20 am

Further comment on S. Insaf's post about the "Royal" power struggle:

That Husaina (present Dai's mother) was poisoned is a conjecture or speculation. No evidence for such claim has ever been put forth.

There is also a story that has been circulating that Sayedna himself is being slowly poisoned. However, mashallah, he is in his 95thh year. His followers perhaps think he survives by miracle.!

If YN was alive, and if he had ambition to see a Dai from his progeny, then he would have ensured the succession of his son-in-law Ammar, Sayedna's youngest son, to be the next Dai. (That is a speculation from me)

(Sayedna's wife Amatullah died in London, England about a dozen years ago. One of his daughters also died of cancer in Mumbai.)



like_minded
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Re: SOLEMN MONTH OF MUHARRAM TURNS INTO CELEBRATIONS BY BU

#38

Unread post by like_minded » Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:21 am

propig,

I believe in myself. My deeds (good/bad) will have its direct affect on my life.

For me, the biggest miracle is LIFE itself, and the awareness is my belief.



tahir
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Re: SOLEMN MONTH OF MUHARRAM TURNS INTO CELEBRATIONS BY BU

#39

Unread post by tahir » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:27 am

Originally posted by porus:

That Husaina (present Dai's mother) was poisoned is a conjecture or speculation. No evidence for such claim has ever been put forth.

There is also a story that has been circulating that Sayedna himself is being slowly poisoned. However, mashallah, he is in his 95thh year. His followers perhaps think he survives by miracle.!

That Sydna Burhanuddin is the authentic dai as envisaged by the Imam behind the veil is a widely circulated story. However, no back-up for such claim has ever been put forth.



porus
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Re: SOLEMN MONTH OF MUHARRAM TURNS INTO CELEBRATIONS BY BU

#40

Unread post by porus » Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:46 pm

Originally posted by tahir:
That Sydna Burhanuddin is the authentic dai as envisaged by the Imam behind the veil is a widely circulated story. However, no back-up for such claim has ever been put forth.
That Sydna Burhanuddin is the authentic dai as envisaged by the Imam behind the veil is a widely circulated story. However, no back-up for such claim has ever been put forth.
________________________________________
Is Sayedna Muhammad Burhanuddin authentic Dai?
Is Imam Tayyib authentic Imam?
Is Ali authentic first successor to Prophet Muhammad?
Is Nabi Muhammad the last of authentic God’s messengers?
Is Adam the first of God’s authentic Anbiya?

Too many questions! Authencity of Imam Ismail and the first Fatimid Imam Mehdi is disputed. Authenticity of the Fatimid Imam Mustaali is also disputed.

You have a choice. Either fume in juristic nit-picking or go along with the de facto authority of Sayedna Burhanuddin, while accepting that these disputes are merely historical puzzles for amusement of scholars. They do not seriously affect the work before the Bohras, whether progressive or orthodox.



porus
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Re: SOLEMN MONTH OF MUHARRAM TURNS INTO CELEBRATIONS BY BU

#41

Unread post by porus » Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:20 pm

So, let us amuse ourselves by re-iterating the current dispute about the authenticity of the current Dai’s authority.

The definitive history of the Dais is a book called Mausam-e-Bahar. Kothar has banned this book because it has some unsavory passages regarding the succession of the 47th Dai, Abdul Qadir Najmuddin. The latter was the son of the 45th Dai Tayyib Zainuddin, who, it is alleged, was poisoned because he was about to nominate a successor not accepted by those close to him, including his family.

A number of Mashaikh (Shaikhs) had verified Nass but there was no documentary evidence, and it is alleged that the Mashaikh were bribed. At least one of the Ulama who disputed the succession of the 47th Dai went to Yemen with binoculars around his neck. When asked what he was doing with the binoculars he replied that he was looking for the Imam.

Because of the dispute, some have insisted that all the Dais from 47th onward are caretaker Dais and the authentic Dai has yet to be nominated. Who is going to nominate him? OK, let your speculative juices have full sway!!

All the Dais since the 47th are from the family of the 45th Dai Tayyib Zainuddin. Hence their families were referred to as Bayte Zaini. However, there are currently over 2000 individuals in Bayte Zaini. Hence the 51st Dai gave his family the name of Qasre Aali (High Palace). The problem has now recurred because there are well over 600 individuals in Qasre Aali. So expect a new name for the family of the current, 52nd. Dai.

In the days before the 47th Dai, shaik was a title rarely given. They were well versed in religion and served community for a long time. They were honored by the common Bohras with the title Miyan Saheb. 47th Dai changed all that by giving titles to sycophants with no real knowledge of religion. This meant that there were too many shaikhs and a large number were from the Dai’s family. Hence a new category, Bhai Sahebs, was created for the shaikhs of the “Royal” family. This practice continues today.



S. Insaf
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Re: SOLEMN MONTH OF MUHARRAM TURNS INTO CELEBRATIONS BY BU

#42

Unread post by S. Insaf » Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:02 am

Thank You Porus for correct update.



anajmi
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Re: SOLEMN MONTH OF MUHARRAM TURNS INTO CELEBRATIONS BY BU

#43

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:39 pm

I think we should separate the authority into two parts, spiritual and administrative. The Dai has no spiritual authority.



porus
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Re: SOLEMN MONTH OF MUHARRAM TURNS INTO CELEBRATIONS BY BU

#44

Unread post by porus » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:10 pm

Correction.(/b>

It was not the 45th Dai Tayyib Zainuddin who was poisoned but his suuccesor, the 46th Dai, who was poisoned. (46th Dai was son-in-law of the 45th Dai)

The following is the corrected paragraph from the earlier post.

The definitive history of the Dais is a book called Mausam-e-Bahar. Kothar has banned this book because it has some unsavory passages regarding the succession of the 47th Dai, Abdul Qadir Najmuddin. The latter was the son of the 45th Dai Tayyib Zainuddin, who nominated Muhammad Burhanuddin (son of 43rd Dai) to be the 46th Dai. It is alleged that the latter, the 46th Dai, was poisoned because he was about to nominate a successor not acceptable to the family of 45th Dai.(/b>



porus
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Re: SOLEMN MONTH OF MUHARRAM TURNS INTO CELEBRATIONS BY BU

#45

Unread post by porus » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:16 pm

Anajmi,

For his followers, Sayedna is Dai al-Mutlaq and has absolute authority in both spiritual and adminstrative domains.

It is just like the authority Of Nabi Muhammad. That is the reason why Reformists have an uphill struggle trying to whittle away his powers.



Rahi
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Re: SOLEMN MONTH OF MUHARRAM TURNS INTO CELEBRATIONS BY BU

#46

Unread post by Rahi » Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:35 pm

I think we should separate the authority into two parts, spiritual and administrative. The Dai has no spiritual authority.
Good one Anajmi!
It'll be easier to tackle Burhanuddin without the cover of religion.



Aarif
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Re: Reform? What reform?

#47

Unread post by Aarif » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:49 pm

Br. GM,

Nice post... It covers some interesting key points. To further add to that most of the vaez conducted by aamils is exactly divided in two parts. On part is completely reserved for the praising of Syedna... The other half covers everything related to Karabala, prophet and Islam. This shows how much weightage is given to Syedna as compared to the ahle-beht. The marasya party is also divided in two groups.. One that will sing only for syedna and the other one will sing actual marasyas mourning the martyrs... The Aamilsaab or Bhaisaab ensures that at no point of time the bohras forget that their dai is Syedna Burhanuddin... He will keep using typical sugar coated words like "Apna Moula kiwaa shafiq bawa che ke je mumineen paani maange toh ehne dudh pilawe". I am yet to come accross someone who got milk from kothar when he/she asked for a glass of water... Every vaez is a PR trick to ensure and to check that the bohras are still under complete controll or not... Occassions like Muharam and Ramzaan are treated as opportunities for milking money from gullible bohras... Nowadays due to fear of getting ripped off by kotharis many mumineens do not go to masjid except on some important occassions... Our clergy is taking us away from Islam instead of teaching us how to follow it in the right way...



ghulam muhammed
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Re: Reform? What reform?

#48

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:04 pm

Br.Arif,

Moharrum has now become a once in a year foreign tour for which Bohras are waiting with baited breadth. Kothar becomes SOTC Tours & Travels and bohras are seen whispering in each others ears "Aa waqt mukam kya hase" which in other words means now which new country we will be able to see ? During syedna's dubai vayez I heard people saying what a bargain to visit Dubai and get free accomodation and lavish food for 10 days alongwith free visa. I have first hand account of the happenings there as I have quite a many relatives in Dubai. It so happened that the hotel staff were very much fed up with these illiterate lot because when they left there were a number of broken toilet sinks and so much so that even the hotel's blankets and curtains were looted and taken away by these bohras. The jamaat had to pay a hefty compensation for this. The bohras claimed that the sheikh of dubai was so impressed by syedna that he flew him in his private plane and requested him that come here as many times as possible for your vayez. The gullible bohras were more then impressed to see Mola ni shaan but they failed to realise that with the millions of dollars in revenue by way of the bohra shopping spree and the hotel occupancy rate touching an all time high, any ruler was bound to make this statement seeing his country's economy flourishing never mind for a short period of time. Further more the shopkeepers were more then happy because the outdated stuff which lay unsold in a heap of dust for years together were bought by these illiterate bohras for a handsome price because the bohras were jumping one over the other to buy as much "phoren maal"as possible.

And if we asked them how was the vayez, the only thing they would say was "su intezam hato, etla mumeenin na hova na baad pan omelete, masko jam saathe nashto time par mali jaato. 2 kharas, 2 mithas saathe jaman roz time par milto, roz alag alag type ni murgi ne icecream aapta". But my dear how was the vayez ? Arre mola ni dua thi badhi cheezo dukano ma discount ma milti and mumineen ni su izzat hati. Now it is a different matter that more then 200 bohra women were booked by the dubai police for theft. So the bottomline was that they were least interested in mola's bayaan and were more interested in eating and shopping. Now where does the mourning of Imam Hussain a.s. and the significance of Moharrum fits in here, its for anyone to decide. The amount of money kothar has made by way of gettting heavy discounts on such huge and bulk air tickets and in return selling them at a handsome profit and the number of Sheikhs and Mulla titles given for abnormal monetary considerations and the endless ziafats and nikahs performed at premium rates and the lumpsum fee charged by syedna to conduct the vayez is an obnoxiously phenomenal sum. I was told by a very reliable source in Bangalore that when their jamaat went to Saifee Mahal for araz last year for Moharrum vayez, they were asked by some shehzada as to what najwa will your jamaat give to Mola to which the Bangalore jamaat offered an amount of Rs.20 crore. On hearing this that shehzada rudely insulted these people by telling them that they have already recieved an offer of Rs.40 crore from elsewhere so anything about that will only be considered. This has remained the significance of the holy month of Moharrum and Imam Hussain a.s. and his shahadat has become a tradeable commodity (May Allah forgive me). These people are no better then the saffron brigade because like how Ayodhya and Hindutva has become a flourishing business for them so are Moharrum, Ramzan and Islam become business for the priestly class. May Allah give tauhfiq to the ones who have gone astray and render justice which Iam sure He will surely do. Amin.



Aarif
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Re: Reform? What reform?

#49

Unread post by Aarif » Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:28 pm

I was told by a very reliable source in Bangalore that when their jamaat went to Saifee Mahal for araz last year for Moharrum vayez, they were asked by some shehzada as to what najwa will your jamaat give to Mola to which the Bangalore jamaat offered an amount of Rs.20 crore. On hearing this that shehzada rudely insulted these people by telling them that they have already recieved an offer of Rs.40 crore from elsewhere so anything about that will only be considered.
Br. GM,

From your post it is clear that the kotharis are using syedna like some cheap woman who will be sold to the highest bidder... Forget about Muharam and Imam Husain these people have lost their basic dignity... The ironical part of the whole story is that inspite of all these insults and humiliations these same bohras will again flock to Badri Mahal next time throwing a bid with a bigger amount... They will forget all the insults and shower their hard earned money on these same crooks who have insulted them. In fact among these kotharis there will be one middle man who will act as their agent and help them clinch the syedna deal. He will also recieve a fat salaam in return from these bakraas... I fail to understand what these people gain out of this madness...



ghulam muhammed
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Re: Reform? What reform?

#50

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:37 pm

Br.Aarif,

These bohras are like "kuva ma medak" i.e. Frogs in the well. They will only do tarr, tarr, tarr in the well and will be extremely proud of it thinking that this is the only place on this planet which has so much of water. Hence they will never even make an effort to come out of the well. If only by chance they happen to come out of the well and see even a glimpse of the deep seas and huge oceans, the chances are that they will faint as the well is not even a minscule compared to the vast oceans and seas. And once they experience the pleasure of these oceans, no one will want to re enter that stinking well. Hence every possible effort is made by this unscruplous kothar to keep them tied down and instead of disclosing the real beauties of the outside world, they are fed with all sorts of crooked, wicked and false stories with a heavy dosage of fear due to which these bohras prefer to remain tied down and moreover feel extremely proud of doing it. Hence nothing can be done for them because as the saying goes "You cannnot help the ones who refuse to help their own self".



Smart
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Re: Reform? What reform?

#51

Unread post by Smart » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:50 am

^
Bro GM,
How true! I appreciate the way you put things. You really have a way with words!



JC
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Re: Solemn month of Muharram turns into a celebration

#52

Unread post by JC » Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:55 pm

Thank you for your posts Bro Insaf, Hussain and Like Minded.

Today, souls of Prophet Mohd, Prophet Essa and Imam Hussain are ashamed due to treatment meted to them by Bohras. I am POSITIVE and it is my FAITH that these great people never wanted what Bohras are projecting them.

Bor Like Minded has very rightly said - they were ordinary men, but with a great cause, great dream and practiced what they preached. They sacrificed almost everything for their faith, cause and dream and suffered a lot for that.

Bohra Clergy, the Kothari Cult is just making money in the name of Imam Hussain and Maula Ali. They have concocted stories and fairy tales about these great personalities and are 'using' them for power and money. That is as simple.

Bohras curse Wahabis like anything ........ they are Masters of Cursing ..!!! and curse all and sundry except themselves (I wonder if any Amil, due to his extreme habit of cursing and cursing others, some day curses Dai too ...!!!) but they EXACTLY behave in the manner Wahabis behave and believe - ONLY 'US' and 'US' NO ONE else is right..!!! You 'MUST' DO what WE say and believe in WHAT WE SAY.

Slavery was abolished by Mohammad 1400 year back ........ but it is still practiced by majority of his followers. Bohras are extreme as they have made Ali and Hussain as God and Dai as something-like-God on earth.

By the way - I ask Bohras like Pig ......... where is your run-away Imam?? when is he going to 're-appear' .......... oh! sorry for asking ........... 'tooth-fairy' DOES NOT exist .......!!!!!!!!!!



ghulam muhammed
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Re: Solemn month of Muharram turns into a celebration

#53

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:14 pm

I remember that since quite many years and even today, Bohras of Zampa Bazaar, Surat look at the sunni muslims in their locality and specially the lower income sunni group with extreme contempt because these bohras have been poisoned by their priestly class that these are Imam Hussain a.s. Qatils and His arch enemies. See the way they purposely dress up in new clothes during Ashoora, see the way they happily celebrate Mohurrum and see the way they rejoice is what the bohras are told.

Now what about Bohras themselves ? Nowadays bohras greet each other in Mohurrum by saying "Ashura Mubarak". The womenfolk dress up in the best of different ridas on every single day till Ashura. Some of them are laden with heavy jewellery during vayez. They have the best of food with icecream and murgi (the same as they have in marriages). The Sabil is decorated lavishly and there is stiff competition in the mohallas as to whose sabil is the most outstanding. All in the name of Imam Hussain a.s. and the great martyrs. Even the Masjids are particularly decorated with flowers on the day of Ashura.

Now what is the difference if any between the sunnis of Zampa Bazar and Bohras ? From the above mentioned instances dont we feel that what bohras do during Ashura is nothing short of a celebration ? Do we see an inch of mourning for the great sacrifices made by Imam Hussain a.s. and the martyrs in the cause of Islam ? Just by beating chests while being half asleep and beating chests standing in circles and in chorus doesnt amount to mourning.



like_minded
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Re: Solemn month of Muharram turns into a celebration

#54

Unread post by like_minded » Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:49 am

Well... Bohras are no better than sheep herded to the final slaughter house!!



SBM
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Re: Solemn month of Muharram turns into a celebration

#55

Unread post by SBM » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:13 am

I always wonder why do Bohras say "ASHURA MUBARAK" this is not some thing of a festive occasion this is supposed to be a solemn affair to remind people "ISLAM ZINDA HOOTA HAI HER KARBALA KAY BAAD"
In Israel, the whole nation stands silent for 2 minutes to remember holocaust and they do not greet each other while during the Muharram Majlis and specially on Ashura, this becomes festive and greeting each other.
Before 52 Dai, no shaadi and no party was allowed among Bohras for atleast 3 days past Ashura now right after Ashura they have lined up Ziyafats and Nikah ceremony where ever Syedna is?
SO KOTHARI GROUP ON THIS BOARD, PLEASE ENLIGHTEN US WHY "ASHURA MUBARAK"?