Bohra Jamat's intervention in Family Conflicts

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humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Bohra Jamat's intervention in Family Conflicts

#1

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:35 am

This lady is Asmabai Shabbirbhai Pardiwala, age 82 years and stays at Vasai (West). She was beaten up by her daughter-in-law Tasneem Mufaddal Pardiwala but her husband is shielding her though Asmaben has signed the documents of her flat in his name. Asmaban has an elder son Aliasger Pardiwala and his wife is Farida Pardiwala who are aware of this matter but he is enjoying with his family in Dubai as he was not given share in property. They have also stopped giving her expenses. Asmaben has problem in her eyesight and hearing, her husband died 30 years ago.

Please forward this message till it reaches her children.

Shukran
This is a common problem in Indian culture, where children are insensitive towards parents. How prevalent is this in Bohra Settings ? do bohra parents suffer in silence ? Is there any jamat intervention in such cases ?

Please share your experiences, observation and opinions
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asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

#2

Unread post by asad » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:46 am

Problem with Indian culture is not of children being insensitive but elders lack of planning for oldage. Its common in all communities but the Bohras are better as due to being a close knit community and fear of society still they dont throw their parents out on road to fend for themselves. Generally Bohras take care of there parents and these kind of cases are rare.



alivasan
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 9:28 am

#3

Unread post by alivasan » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:58 pm

In case of domestic house hold conflicts between spouses

1. who gave this jammat goons and amil right to impound passport with intention of restricting travel.
2. threatening for framing false 498a cases knowing consequences and pain one will go thru and to make one suffer in all ways. they don't threaten but goons actually wait indulging with corrupt system (police, judges, lawyers) depriving rights of spouse.the faxes are send from locals to center and goons boast of calling it sarkar che.



YaHussain
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:36 am

#4

Unread post by YaHussain » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:49 pm

alivasan wrote:In case of domestic house hold conflicts between spouses

1. who gave this jammat goons and amil right to impound passport with intention of restricting travel.
2. threatening for framing false 498a cases knowing consequences and pain one will go thru and to make one suffer in all ways. they don't threaten but goons actually wait indulging with corrupt system (police, judges, lawyers) depriving rights of spouse.the faxes are send from locals to center and goons boast of calling it sarkar che.
I have never seen misuse of 498A by any bohra woman, infact thanx to dawat divorce cases are solved out of court and with less mess, check out other community almost every household is suffering with 498A terror.

my two sunni friends are suffering from terror of 498A and there is no leader for them to intervene and help them.



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#5

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:59 pm

I know of marital cases wherein the wife went to court as well as Badri Mahal to extract maximum money from her husband. The surprising part was that the kothar was aware that she had filed a court case but even then they entertained her plea because her lawyer was Y.N. Muchhala who at that time was very close to kothar. So its all about money power and influence as there are also many cases wherein the women have not got justice from Kothari divorce.



saminaben
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:57 pm

#6

Unread post by saminaben » Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:00 pm

Majority of the so called divorce mediators and marriage counselors aka AAMILS, or agents of Badri mahal have absolutely ZERO professionalism, expertise and sensitivity in dealing with couples whose marriage and families are in turmoil. Hi time people realize before they go to the lifesaver floating device to Badri Mahal or similar to have a decent dissolution. I personally know of many instances where even domestic violence cases have been mishandled, and minimal safeguards not followed. The mullahs and sheikhs who do this work have a predominantly male chauvinistic perspective, and are clueless when they merely give the same old armchair advice as the Daadimaa and daadaaji or naanimaa and naanaaji. No professionalism there!



asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

#7

Unread post by asad » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:24 pm

saminaben wrote:Majority of the so called divorce mediators and marriage counselors aka AAMILS, or agents of Badri mahal have absolutely ZERO professionalism, expertise and sensitivity in dealing with couples whose marriage and families are in turmoil. Hi time people realize before they go to the lifesaver floating device to Badri Mahal or similar to have a decent dissolution. I personally know of many instances where even domestic violence cases have been mishandled, and minimal safeguards not followed. The mullahs and sheikhs who do this work have a predominantly male chauvinistic perspective, and are clueless when they merely give the same old armchair advice as the Daadimaa and daadaaji or naanimaa and naanaaji. No professionalism there!
When Bohra Moala himself is not professional in advice and tells people whatever comes to his mind than how can you expect his appointed aamils to be any better. They all are cut from the same cloth, uncouth and corrupt.



Universaldad
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:50 am

#8

Unread post by Universaldad » Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:49 am

saminaben wrote:Majority of the so called divorce mediators and marriage counselors aka AAMILS, or agents of Badri mahal have absolutely ZERO professionalism, expertise and sensitivity in dealing with couples whose marriage and families are in turmoil. Hi time people realize before they go to the lifesaver floating device to Badri Mahal or similar to have a decent dissolution. I personally know of many instances where even domestic violence cases have been mishandled, and minimal safeguards not followed. The mullahs and sheikhs who do this work have a predominantly male chauvinistic perspective, and are clueless when they merely give the same old armchair advice as the Daadimaa and daadaaji or naanimaa and naanaaji. No professionalism there!
Sorry to know you had a bad experience. :D

BTW where do the reformists go to have a mediation in such cases.... Seek counsel from Insaf and the courts may be.

Also sorry to know about the low respect and opinion you have for your Daadimaa, Dadajee, Nanajee and Nanimaa.... Absolutely no Professionalism here.



alivasan
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 9:28 am

#9

Unread post by alivasan » Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:07 am

Mediation in bohras is just about money. On seeing lot of money on table Rajabali goon spreads his wings like a vulture on prey. This goon only threatens with consequences of being trapped in false 498a cases.what other side gives in place of money, nothing but Saadi ka ladoo 498a . bohra mediation is more corrupt ( no insaniyat) worst than ghattis police corruption. I have been hearing many cases where they were bought with noting down names of victims who fall prey at hands of bohra mediation with there current status in life.recently a guy called taher reported his story onthis forum aand there are many..just talk to proper mumbaikars, who know it all.



alivasan
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 9:28 am

#10

Unread post by alivasan » Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:50 am

One can just dive deeply into flat world we live and horror is tremendous, falling prey to monsters...if survived from one, another waits..

Why so much hue and cry over bohras leadership.definitely something is wrong somewhere.its all about money, following shariats, dawat kutubs, ancestors nashiyats etc are all dhong (natak) promoted by uneducated guys (muffi just 7th grade, can't even speak,write English properly) conferred prestigious doctorate titles by spending money, and this continued from ancestral practices of self glorification by money.this lot is only understand one thing, feeding money in there mouth for everything.








if you survive your marriage dispute in your favor from bohri mediation next monster is LEGAL TERROR 498a. How will you combat this monostrus monster ?



humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

#11

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:02 am

Mullahs and amils are not trained with legal or psychological expertise to deal with civil family matters. they side with the party who can flatter and pamper them. in thier myopic and male chauvinistic outlook they ignore islamic principles also. I am a witness to horrible decision making that has ruined a family. Local Jamat and amil would have saved the family, had the amil been more strict, humane and responsible in not allowing such a thing to happen. I dont put the whole blame on Amil, but somewhere a responsible society should not have allowed such a thing to happen.


There was a family in remote town of Rajasthan. a man and wife with 3 children. they had some petty difference which rolled into major conflict to an extent of seperation. However instead of seperating, the man married another woman without divorcing the first wife. The first wife was meek, timid woman who obeyed elders of the society and specially when her case was discussed at the devree. trusting the AMIL - raza na saheb's judgement and farman. First wife was promised a house, hajj and sustenance by this man. somehow, the second marriage did not sustain and the man married for the third time. also the man did not fulfill his promise. House ; he advised her to stay at his mother's place and serve her, while he lived with his 3rd his wife. she obliged for many years in hope that she would be given a seperate house. she was from a poor/middle-class family and did not want to burden her widowed mother and be a dependent on her brothers. at same time emotions of her children born and lived in that house kept her attached ( a mother's heart). Sustenance : she was provided with sustenance of Rs. 500 - 1000 per month in the times of 1991- 1996, it is a ridiculous amount even in those times. Hajj; she has given up the hope of this promise being fulfilled.


The primary fault lies with this woman to have suffered such a life. But considering her background and faith in Maula and their raza na sahib, an injustice was done to her. Kothar wants bohra not to go to court and come to their darbaar/devree/badrri-mahal to resolve their conflicts. One can see obvious mis-management by amil in handling the sensitive case. This man did everything illegal; morally, legally and islamically upon approval from bohra jamat. A sensible, honest person would not allowed such a thing to happen, all the machinery created by kothar such as safai chitthi, ejamat card, red/yellow/green color coding is only put to use for money matters and not to discipline rogue men like these. In spite of such injustice, this man was no excommunicated from the society. Neither this man was pressured to fulfill his promises. Apart from the wife, the children suffered a broken family trauma !



saminaben
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:57 pm

#12

Unread post by saminaben » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:39 am

It's is so easy for people here on the forum to get cynical and to sweep everything under the rug of "corrupt Kothar" or money greedy, or more subtly, as blaming the victim, the woman, usually, over and over again. In doing so, the main points are lost - The messiness of the conflicts and the fact that so many family and in laws are involved in the fight and the mediators from Kothar are so simplistic and amateur in dealing with it, no matter how old they are. Its ineffective and they lack basic the basic counseling skills required of a negoriator. That's all.
Universaldad your post doesn't sound you are sorry at all. Alivasan post seems quite nonsensical rambling and irrelevant.



Universaldad
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:50 am

#13

Unread post by Universaldad » Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:07 am

saminaben wrote:It's is so easy for people here on the forum to get cynical and to sweep everything under the rug of "corrupt Kothar" or money greedy, or more subtly, as blaming the victim, the woman, usually, over and over again. In doing so, the main points are lost - The messiness of the conflicts and the fact that so many family and in laws are involved in the fight and the mediators from Kothar are so simplistic and amateur in dealing with it, no matter how old they are. Its ineffective and they lack basic the basic counseling skills required of a negoriator. That's all.
Universaldad your post doesn't sound you are sorry at all. Alivasan post seems quite nonsensical rambling and irrelevant.
The Dawoodi Bohras have a support and community system that is working well. Basically the problem is that of the individuals in the couple or family.. it is a private affair. When people cannot over come their differences they seek mediation. The Dawoodi Bohra Community has a structure where one can seek mediation and advise unlike other communities where they would at the first instance go to some family counselor and then soon to the court. The mediation offered by the Dawoodi Bohra community and institutions has saved many a marriages and family separations and helped with a lot of dispute resolution without the need to go to the court. It has been a fair practice if both the parties have faith in the advise given from these support systems as these are based on the teachings of Aqa Moula and shariyat. In short people of Faith are aware what is right and what is wrong, people of Faith are aware of what is reasonable and can be reasoned with.



humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

#14

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:56 am

Universaldad wrote:The Dawoodi Bohras have a support and community system that is working well. Basically the problem is that of the individuals in the couple or family.. it is a private affair. When people cannot over come their differences they seek mediation. The Dawoodi Bohra Community has a structure where one can seek mediation and advise unlike other communities where they would at the first instance go to some family counselor and then soon to the court. The mediation offered by the Dawoodi Bohra community and institutions has saved many a marriages and family separations and helped with a lot of dispute resolution without the need to go to the court. It has been a fair practice if both the parties have faith in the advise given from these support systems as these are based on the teachings of Aqa Moula and shariyat. In short people of Faith are aware what is right and what is wrong, people of Faith are aware of what is reasonable and can be reasoned with.
A make believe convenience to relax one's mind. what you are stating here is a wishful thinking or assumption, but far from reality. amils and jamat member side with the party with more influence and money power. justice be damned. Excommunication Rules are only limited to loyality with Dai and clearance of money dues. rest one's conduct is immaterial to being a bohra.



qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 996
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

#15

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:50 am

90 percent bohras are living in make beleive --all is well---type world.
it is only if one gets bitter experience, truth is revealed.
in that case also majority believes it is their fault, and maula ni khushi



Deerseye
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:30 am

#16

Unread post by Deerseye » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:23 am

Bro human being, I totally agree with you that Amil and Jamaat members appointed to sort out family issues are not always mature enough to gauge the true situation. I remember the case of a lady situated in a city of MP. She had a rouge of a husband who milked her dry of her hard earned money. The meek woman had no emotional family support so she continued with the rouge. She did backbreaking work of applying mehendi and when she could not bear the tensions of life she broke down with a devasting physical ailment called demylinating disease. Her eye muscles got paralysed. The rouge had mishandled big funds. He left her and ran away. Slowly with the help of well wishers she got treatment and regained health. She approached the Amil for divorce but the Amil and Jamaat were adamant in saving her marriage. No amount of imploring from her side could get her divorce. In the mean time the rouge ran away to Mumbai and using slick ways is working as driver for some Kothari. This lady is paying of his debts and is forced to be known as his wife.what JUSTICE.



SBM
Posts: 6188
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#17

Unread post by SBM » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:48 am

Universaldad
The Dawoodi Bohra Community has a structure where one can seek mediation and advise unlike other communities where they would at the first instance go to some family counselor and then soon to the court.
Really---- and that is why SMS and his sons had to go court to ask for visitation rights for his grand children, Your assertion that Dawoodi Bohra community has a structure sounds very hollow when the TWO DAIS of the the same community can not solve their own personal family problems amicably and has to resort to a Non Muslim Judge to help them resolve family and religious issues.
In our local jamaat of 23 families they have 4 cases of divorce among Bohras while the local Aamil just pretended if we had no problems and the women decided to get help from local authorities with restraining order and finally court divorce with all the support. There is no Dawoodi Bohra structure for mediation except Phook Nu Paani and Moula No Wasilu..



Ummul Bani
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:09 am

#18

Unread post by Ummul Bani » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:01 am

SBM wrote:Universaldad
Your assertion that Dawoodi Bohra community has a structure sounds very hollow when the TWO DAIS of the the same community can not solve their own personal family problems amicably and has to resort to a Non Muslim Judge to help them resolve family and religious issues.
Well pointed out!



abde53
Posts: 296
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 5:01 am

#19

Unread post by abde53 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:22 am

Also sorry to know about the low respect and opinion you have for your Daadimaa, Dadajee, Nanajee and Nanimaa.... Absolutely no Professionalism here.
Universaldad Bhai
and how about the respect we gave to Sydi Khuzema he is also some one's Dada and Nana from Muffadal Moula's family.



WiththenameofAllah
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 9:13 am

#20

Unread post by WiththenameofAllah » Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:29 pm

Hi All,
How about conflicts in a bohra family where the lady is v well aware of that the khootri goons and their leader is nothing but a fraud and the man is a lover of his moula.The parents of the man are also moula lovers.They practice bohra faith. what are your views on such a marriage and what conflicts can arise ?



berasiawala
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:01 am

#21

Unread post by berasiawala » Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:39 pm

There is no intervention by the Amils or anyone from the Badri Mahal unless the person has some influence or doles out money. I have come across divorce cases from known persons in whose case the amils / badri mahal did not intervene at all even though there were on the right side. Although it is normally said that "Dawat ke haath bahut lambe hai" which is correct but its for those who have influence or have money,.

There are some lawyers in the community who even fight such divorce cases, especially one dawoodi bohra lawyer from bhopal who without understanding the logic or Islam does his job of giving any sort of advice to the one who pays him for getting the divorce done. He sends summons against the other party with totally inhuman and false accusations and leaves no room for compromise or mediation even if there a possibility. He also gets the job done from the amil. In the community whoever weighs more gets justice the way he wants it.

Ideally the Amils should try to save a marriage unless any one or both party is such that its not worth it. However in many cases the divorces take place due to reasons that does not justify divorce. Besides husband and wife the parents too are to blame who interfere in family issues seriously leading to unnecessary tensions. Ironically there is no system of counseling in the community. The so called marriage counselors or tehseerun nikah members are not professionals but simply matchmakers.

For a community to be healthy socially marriage counseling service is required in the community handled by professionals who should provide counseling in the light of the current scenario as well as Islam and Shariah.

Although not all Amils would be like that but the majority of them does not want to get bothered about such conflicts, they do not want to give correct advice. They get salaam for both nikah as well as divorce.



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#22

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:24 pm

While on the subject, there was a shameful incident which occurred in Pune a few years ago when Ismailji bhaisaab, (Brother of SMB), famously known as 'Chand bhaisaab' was deputed for Mohurrum vayez. A depressed Bohra woman had approached the bhaisaab for divorce due to constant torture by her husband and she had shifted to her parental home but instead of acting as a responsible mediator, the bhaisaab used his veto power and ordered her to go back to her husband's house upon which she warned him that she would commit suicide if she was forced to go back. Ismailji bhaisaab was unmoved by the woman's constant cries and pleas and was adamant in sending her back due to which she had to forcibly go back much against her wish. However on reaching the husband's house she committed suicide and the news spread like wildfire and the local Shiv Sena people demanded an explanation from Ismailji bhaisaab. Fearing for his life, the bhaisaab ran away to Mumbai overnight and the brunt was borne by the local jamat who had to bribe their way out and calm down the matter.

If we have people like the Dai's brother who acts in such an irresponsible manner then what could one expect of an ordinary Amil.



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#23

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:01 pm

This incident is from the early 1990s. The famous Jafferjee family's one son lived in California and was married to a highly educated professional girl from Diwan family in Mumbai who had managed to pursue higher education even while growing up in the ghetto of Badri Mahal. They were having marital problems and they happened to travel to Cairo where the boy's parents had resettled.

Muffy happened to be there, and of course the family sought his guidance. MS was single-minded in his focus and advice to the couple and their young daughter that they resettle in Cairo. Husband didn't want to, and was equally adamant not to. Then MS put a lot of pressure on the wife, and threatened her with going against Maula ni Khooshi and going to Jahannam if she doesn't stay in Cairo and going to the napaak zameen of USA.

Needless to say, their marital problems worsened, because now she was trying to also convince him to stay back, along with whatever other baggage of marital difficulties they had. He was equally stubborn and returned to USA by himself, and she was forced to stay back in Cairo, under the gun, under the pseudo protection from Muffy who Ordered her in-laws to provide for her financially and get her an apartment and pay for her upkeep. Years later, she was still in love with her husband who had now remarried with a Philipina woman. She was bitter, for losing him, and he was enraged enough to leave the Bohra Jamaat and became alienated from his own wealthy and khidmatguzaar family. They both attributed MS as being responsible for ultimately breaking up the family instead of trying to help them solve their problems. MS forced her to stay in Cairo instead of going back to USA with her husband. Later, she got ill, and died at a young age of 44 in Cairo. She was a scientist in the bio-chem field. The husband is in USA and has completely removed himself from the Bohra Jamaat."



haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

#24

Unread post by haqniwaat » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:42 pm

You are correct. This is Ahmed Jafferjee that you are referring to. He lived in Fremont, California the last I had heard. He was under heavy medication for decades after mufaddal's mental torture. His tragedy is a perfect example of mufaddal at work. This poor rich fellow worked for the US Postal Service for years. Imagine growing up in a wealthy Sri Lankan household and ending up working as a postal worker.
This muffy knows nothing but force, and if you don't listen to him, he will chastise you until you either die from deep depression or become his worst enemy.



Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

#25

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:56 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:While on the subject, there was a shameful incident which occurred in Pune a few years ago when Ismailji bhaisaab, (Brother of SMB), famously known as 'Chand bhaisaab' was deputed for Mohurrum vayez. A depressed Bohra woman had approached the bhaisaab for divorce due to constant torture by her husband and she had shifted to her parental home but instead of acting as a responsible mediator, the bhaisaab used his veto power and ordered her to go back to her husband's house upon which she warned him that she would commit suicide if she was forced to go back. Ismailji bhaisaab was unmoved by the woman's constant cries and pleas and was adamant in sending her back due to which she had to forcibly go back much against her wish. However on reaching the husband's house she committed suicide and the news spread like wildfire and the local Shiv Sena people demanded an explanation from Ismailji bhaisaab. Fearing for his life, the bhaisaab ran away to Mumbai overnight and the brunt was borne by the local jamat who had to bribe their way out and calm down the matter..
you have narrated the incident correctly bro gm, but omitted to add one important detail. the girl was the daughter of akbarali chawala, one of the 4 chawala brothers; and her husband was the son of sajjad vohra, a known character with underworld connections who had made his money with french polish license, wherein more than half the quota of methyl alcohol allotted on the license is easily sold off at exorbitant profits to illicit hooch manufacturers (haath bhatti). sajjad vohra had also developed political affiliations and socialised with top cops. you can imagine the state of the poor girl in such a household where both father and son were drunkards and gamblers with all the easy money.

i was a witness first hand to this entire tragedy as it unfolded, having family connections with the chawalas. the chawalas had decided to lodge a police complaint but were threatened by this [DELETED] ismail bhaisab and also the jamaat to keep quiet and hush up the matter or else...

ismail also ran because he had uttered the famous words 'gandhi gayo narak ma", when he had insulted kalimuddin bhai godhrawala, a senior congress party member who always wore the gandhi/nehru topi everywhere, (including the masjid and jamaat) in a packed room at the then amil hatim's devri. this was when every tom, dick and harry was misusing the baraat pogrom launched in 1975 to grind personal axes and get even with business rivals, old enemies or simply out of plain jealousy; just after the 4 jamea ustads were brutally assaulted and mercilessly tortured. bohra men up until then did not wear topi's or kurta hijar to work or in their businesses. but there was such fear that a call will come that every bohra used to keep a topi handy expecting the dreaded call. anyone could go and complain that so-and-so is a muddai and does not come for all majlises or secretly harbours reformist thoughts and voila, you were summoned to be harangued, insulted, threatened and then submit for misaq. some bohras who heard this insult to the father of the nation reported it to shiv sena and while they were mobilising their cadre to attack this ismail and the devri, ismail was bundled off in a car, its windows covered with dark curtains, in the dead of the night to mumbai. he ran [DELETED] [DELETED]



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#26

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:16 am

I do not see anything illegal going on over here. If there was some illegal stuff going on, why wasn't a complaint issued to the police department. If the police department is corrupt then lodge a complaint against them in the police department. Al Z, you have to become a leader. GM, become a leader. Humsafar become a leader. This woman is dead. She committed suicide. Which is illegal. So the bohra Dai can dig her grave and punish her. But that is illegal. So complain about her to the police department. But police department is corrupt. But that is not illegal. If it is then lodge a complaint. But then, Al Z should become the leader. Humsafar is also leader. Drinking and gambling is not illegal. Unless you break a law. But if a law is broken, lodge a complain and then become leaders. Till then you are all hypocrites. Wearing kurta hijaar is not illegal. Being afraid and scaring people is also not illegal. But it is not illegal because Al Z is not the leader. Once he becomes the leader, the legal will become illegal and the illegal will become more illegal.

Thanks

fayyaaz.



zinger
Posts: 1874
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

#27

Unread post by zinger » Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:48 am

anajmi wrote:I do not see anything illegal going on over here. If there was some illegal stuff going on, why wasn't a complaint issued to the police department. If the police department is corrupt then lodge a complaint against them in the police department. Al Z, you have to become a leader. GM, become a leader. Humsafar become a leader. This woman is dead. She committed suicide. Which is illegal. So the bohra Dai can dig her grave and punish her. But that is illegal. So complain about her to the police department. But police department is corrupt. But that is not illegal. If it is then lodge a complaint. But then, Al Z should become the leader. Humsafar is also leader. Drinking and gambling is not illegal. Unless you break a law. But if a law is broken, lodge a complain and then become leaders. Till then you are all hypocrites. Wearing kurta hijaar is not illegal. Being afraid and scaring people is also not illegal. But it is not illegal because Al Z is not the leader. Once he becomes the leader, the legal will become illegal and the illegal will become more illegal.

Thanks

fayyaaz.

Huh???

Anajmi, are you posting on behalf of Fayyaaz?



saminaben
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:57 pm

#28

Unread post by saminaben » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:11 am

Universaldad wrote: The Dawoodi Bohras have a support and community system that is working well. Basically the problem is that of the individuals in the couple or family.. it is a private affair. When people cannot over come their differences they seek mediation. The Dawoodi Bohra Community has a structure where one can seek mediation and advise unlike other communities where they would at the first instance go to some family counselor and then soon to the court. The mediation offered by the Dawoodi Bohra community and institutions has saved many a marriages and family separations and helped with a lot of dispute resolution without the need to go to the court. It has been a fair practice if both the parties have faith in the advise given from these support systems as these are based on the teachings of Aqa Moula and shariyat. In short people of Faith are aware what is right and what is wrong, people of Faith are aware of what is reasonable and can be reasoned with.
Brother, the system you describe works for some, but for far fewer than you would be willing to accept. It just doesn't work for the majority of the people.
However, you then start talking about "faith" and "teachings of Aqa Maula" and "people of faith". How dare you assume this morally superior attitude and further abuse those who are already in conflict and suffering due to their marital problems or even divorce, by insinuating something about their faith?
You know what, sir, I have news for you. You very beautifully just demonstrated how the so called representatives of Maula manipulate and bully couples and families in the name of faith.. So if your INTERVENTION doesnt work, it means they are not people of faith or are not reasonable people? Blame the couple, cry out loud by throwing accusations. This is nothing but self-righteous zeal and spiritual chauvinism as a cover up of plain ole ineptitude and poor Interventions and harmful guidance.



humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

#29

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:38 am

During last galiyakot visit, Muffy maula solemnized a nikah in jiffy. In the whole euphoria and drama, the couple and families complied to get that instant fame. The marriage lasted for few months and now they are divorced. they did not settle with each other after all the fanfare drama got over, these abdes came in terms with reality and complexity of their match.



Universaldad
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:50 am

#30

Unread post by Universaldad » Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:53 am

SBM wrote:Universaldad
The Dawoodi Bohra Community has a structure where one can seek mediation and advise unlike other communities where they would at the first instance go to some family counselor and then soon to the court.
Really---- and that is why SMS and his sons had to go court to ask for visitation rights for his grand children, Your assertion that Dawoodi Bohra community has a structure sounds very hollow when the TWO DAIS of the the same community can not solve their own personal family problems amicably and has to resort to a Non Muslim Judge to help them resolve family and religious issues.
In our local jamaat of 23 families they have 4 cases of divorce among Bohras while the local Aamil just pretended if we had no problems and the women decided to get help from local authorities with restraining order and finally court divorce with all the support. There is no Dawoodi Bohra structure for mediation except Phook Nu Paani and Moula No Wasilu..
Dude, The grand children of SMS TUS were kidnapped and forcefully removed from their home.

I repeat the Dawoodi Bohra community does have a structure and institutions to deal with family problems so long as both parties have real faith and believe in these structure and are willing to abide by the decision or the advise. So what is paramount is to have faith, be it in the shariyat law or the civil law. You need to believe in this law.

Also the Dawoodi Bohra community has one syedna who is Syedna Muffadal Saifuddin TUS. KQ is a self proclaimed pretender who has lost his faith in the Dawat of Imam uz zaman. He did not trust the Dai SMB RA and had no faith in him, hence he took upon himself to file a case with the Indian courts on very shaky grounds. He is holding the children hostage.

I cannot comment on your jamaat and the validity of your claim. However for sure the couples in this case were not willing to adhere by the teachings and advise of the Dai. If they did they would not have these problems. I am not singling out the women folk here as I do not know the case.