Hindutva Brigade Now Targets Dawoodi Bohras.

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
ghulam muhammed
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Hindutva Brigade Now Targets Dawoodi Bohras.

#1

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:44 am

Bohra community’s worst fears are coming true !! Even as Bohras thought that they were immune to the nefarious designs of RSS and saffron brigade of which Narendra Modi is a pracharak and were having a gala time celebrating multiple events and glorifying their Dai, the saffron brigade has struck them right in their backyard. As per the Sangh’s evil designs of converting Muslims, Christians and others into Hinduism which is part of their long term hidden agenda, they have now targeted even the Bohra community and no amount of the Bohra Dai’s political influence, money power and muscle power could prevent them from making their agenda public nor could the billions of rupees passed on to the leaders of various saffron parties could refrain them from going ahead with their “Programme”. The various felicitations of Narendra Modi. L.K. Advani, Bal Thackerey, Baba Ramdev, Udhav Thackerey and Raj Thackerey could not prevent the inevitable.

This is a wake up call for the average Bohras who now have to realise that their hard earned money showered on the Dai and his cohorts are used solely for the purpose of protecting the Dai’s ill-gotten wealth and Bohras have to fend for themselves in times of crisis. Needless to say that the ones who will be effected by the saffron diktat will be the average Bohras, especially the poor ones living in villages and small towns as no RSS pracharak is going to come to Saifee Mahal to convert the Dai and his extended family. Hence, it is the average Bohras who will have to face the music.

The subject incident reminds one of the quote by Hillary Clinton with regard to the relations between Pakistani government and Talibans wherein she had said "It's like that old story - you can't keep snakes in your backyard and expect them only to bite your neighbours. Eventually those snakes are going to turn on whoever has them in the backyard," and true to the statement the saffron brigade has not only bitten the “Ola Musalman” but have not even spared the “Apna Mumineen”.

Sangh's 'Ghar Wapsi' event in full swing in Gujarat

NEW DELHI: The standoff in Parliament earlier this week may have forced Dharam Jagran Manch, an RSS affiliate, to postpone its 'ghar wapsi', or homecoming, programme in UP, but the project appears to be on in full earnest in Gujarat. Leaders of the Sangh offshoot VHP are focusing on Dawoodi Bohra Muslims, claiming the community, a sub-sect of Shias, was originally Brahmin that had converted under the force of the Islamic sword.

"Bohras were originally Brahmins and follow Hindu rituals and, in their homes, keep Lord Ganesha's idol," said one of the RSS functionaries who did not wish to be named. "Bohra Muslims are keen (to reconvert), it is their own attempt at ghar wapsi." According to VHP, thousands of Muslims in Gujarat embrace Hinduism every year without any coercion or allurement. "Every year 25,000-30,000 Muslims are returning home to Hinduism in Gujarat," said Ranchod Bharwad, VHP's general secretary in Gujarat.

"Patel, Desai, Bhat are all Hindu surnames, but some Muslims suffix it since their ancestors were Hindus. It is only in Gujarat that we have Noor Mohammed Desai, Ahmed Patel, Maqbool Bhat. It is Christianity and Islam that forces or offer allurements to convert; for us, it is gharwapsi."

However, RSS pracharak in Gujarat, CB Upadhyaya, refused to comment on the matter. Mahipal Thakur of Dharam Jagran Manch said there was no immediate programme for the state, even as he added, "We will offer moral support to ghar wapsi. Bohra Muslims are enthusiastic about embracing Hinduism." Gujarat has 45-50 lakh Muslims out of a total population of around 6 crore, of which Dawoodi Bohra Muslims number about 10-12 lakh, and around 2-3 lakh live in Gujarat.

And Sunni Bohras, another sect of Bohras, number around 12-15 lakh. There are, however, serious differences between Bohras and other Islamic sects.

A senior RSS paracharak said "our programme is on and we are focussing on Bohras". Professor Zainab Bano, a Bohra Muslim, questioned the claims of RSS and its offshoots, even as she conceded that Bohra Muslims were originally Nagar Brahmins. "Why would they convert?" she asks. "The community is rich, well-to-do. Dawoodi Bohras are out of the Muslim mainstream, but part of the national mainstream. There is gender equality and women's empowerment."

Bano said the Bohras converted way back in the 7th or 8th century, too long back for many in the present-day community to wish to be aware of the issue. Like other Muslims, the Bohras were also persecuted in the state during the 2002 riots in Gujarat, she said. "Lungi (Muslim) ko kaato, topi (Bohra) ko looto (hack Muslims, rob Bohras), was the war cry during the 2002 Gujarat riots," she said.

Islamic scholar Sheeba Aslam Fehmi lashed out at the conversion programme, asking, "Why is that Hindutva forces become active when they have a comfortable majority in Parliament? In Modi's regime, it has suddenly dawned upon them that Bohras were Brahmins."


Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst



fustrate_Bohra
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#2

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:57 am

GM bhai i object that poor bohra will be effected by vhp/rss because OUR DAI WILL COME TO THEIR RESCUE AND WILL PROVIDE THEM WITH ALL THE BASIC NECESSITIES IN MUMBAI.



Biradar
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#3

Unread post by Biradar » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:08 am

It is hard to say what impact this will really have on the Bohras. However, if RSS workers do end up going from house to house, it will cause huge stress and panic. During the Gujrat riots even the well-to-do neighborhoods were not spared, and the underlying fear has not yet been forgotten. Honestly, electing Modi and BJP was like sheep electing their butcher to lead them.

Part of the problem here is the Bohras themselves: they distance themselves from the mainstream Muslim, even antagonize them, while simultaneously talk about how they are converted from Bhramins. It is really bizarre. Very often Bohras in India proudly claim that they are converted from so-and-so Bhramin sub-cast! This is probably also used as a way to gain sympathy from the Hinduvta forces. The RSS and VHP workers are not fools, and they consider this "envy" as some underlying resentment among the Bohras about being associated with common Muslims. The RSS/VHP pariwar are simply taking this to the next level.

It also does not help that many Bohra rituals sometimes appear very much like Hindu rituals. This crazy insistence of having photos of STS, SMB and DMMS in each room, doing arti-like wadaavanu, riding in chariots (raath yatra), etc. has alienated the mainstream Muslims, and brought the wolves to the doors.

The da'i was unable to do much during the time of the Gujrat riots, and he will be unable to do much now. His wealth will be protected for sure, and perhaps thats all he really cares about, despite the tear-jerking rhetoric. This happened even during the time of SMB, so one can't expect anything new from DMMS, as specially the latter only really cares about money and power in any case.



SBM
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#4

Unread post by SBM » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:11 am

fustrate_Bohra wrote:GM bhai i object that poor bohra will be effected by vhp/rss because OUR DAI WILL COME TO THEIR RESCUE AND WILL PROVIDE THEM WITH ALL THE BASIC NECESSITIES IN MUMBAI.
Best Joke of the year :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



SBM
Posts: 6151
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#5

Unread post by SBM » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:16 am

We forget another aspect that two of Duaats were Hindus Raja Bharmal and Raja Tarmal and if Hindu Historians can make up stories about Qutub Minar being built by Hindu Raja (Balraj Madhook of BJP if I remember correctly) they can relate to anything. NaMo has SMS blessing to win the election.
Most of our rituals are Hindu based and Kothari Goons (Royal family aka SMS) has not shied away showing closeness to Hindus leaders then Muslims If they can produce a Hindu as a witness for current Dai claim then why blame RSS they have every reason to believe that Bohras specially followers of SMS are easy target.
I do hope that one or both of Dais will issue a very strong worded statement repudiating this news story before the Extremist Muslims will use this propaganda against Abdes/Amtes
Last edited by SBM on Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:52 am, edited 2 times in total.



Abuzer
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#6

Unread post by Abuzer » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:31 am

Bismillah hi taa'laa
Salaam
we live in strange time but I am sure true momeenin wont get affected by all this, only munafiqun will get washed away in this high tide of worldly storms.

start learning and teaching Quran with understanding and also follow established sunnah practically in day to day life, this is the only way to protect your Imaan in this hard times.



ghulam muhammed
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#7

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:30 pm

"Galat fehmi ke shikar Bandar bhi ab utpaat machaaye ge
Ghar wapsi ke liye shor machaaye ge
Kahenge, ki tumhare purvaj bhi the Bandar,
Jaldi waapas chalo sab ghar ke andar...."
:lol: :roll:



awakened
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:02 am

#8

Unread post by awakened » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:36 pm

Abuzer wrote:Bismillah hi taa'laa
Salaam
we live in strange time but I am sure true momeenin wont get affected by all this, only munafiqun will get washed away in this high tide of worldly storms.

start learning and teaching Quran with understanding and also follow established sunnah practically in day to day life, this is the only way to protect your Imaan in this hard times.
Probably you are right, this is the hard time, similar to the one when our Brahmin ancestors faced when they were forced to embrace Islam.



ghulam muhammed
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#9

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:39 pm

awakened wrote:Probably you are right, this is the hard time, similar to the one when our Brahmin ancestors faced when they were forced to embrace Islam.
Do you mean to say that the Bohra Dais FORCED our Brahmin ancestors to embrace Islam ?



ghulam muhammed
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#10

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:44 pm

People have to remind the saffron brigade that if Modi gets 31% votes and Hindus are 81%, that means 50 out of 81 Hindus or over 60% Hindus do not subscribe to Hindutva. And that's only when voters are counted. On a broader basis, that's only 31% of 60% who voted or approx 18%. That's 18 out of 81 or less than 25% Hindus who hold extreme Hindutva views.

Three out of Four Hindus are not taken in by the Hindutva nonsense, and it would be fair to say, have a "moderate" outlook. The tragic part of the narrative is that the "share of noise" of the Hindutva brigade far exceeds their actual share of votes.

These three out of four Hindus who did not vote for Modi - and even less who actually would have voted for VHP and other affiliates, need to remind the RSS/VHP again and again of this basic reality so that these thugs are forced to stop pretending that they represent the Hindu view for all.



awakened
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:02 am

#11

Unread post by awakened » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:47 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:
awakened wrote:Probably you are right, this is the hard time, similar to the one when our Brahmin ancestors faced when they were forced to embrace Islam.
Do you mean to say that the Bohra Dais FORCED our Brahmin ancestors to embrace Islam ?
I will let the historians to answer that, if you have knowledge please share.



ghulam muhammed
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#12

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:58 pm

awakened wrote:
ghulam muhammed wrote: Do you mean to say that the Bohra Dais FORCED our Brahmin ancestors to embrace Islam ?
I will let the historians to answer that, if you have knowledge please share.
In fact it would be interesting to know your views on the subject as Bohras are always taught that their ancestors converted to Bohraism out of their own free will although I have a different take on that.



awakened
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:02 am

#13

Unread post by awakened » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:16 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:
awakened wrote: I will let the historians to answer that, if you have knowledge please share.
In fact it would be interesting to know your views on the subject as Bohras are always taught that their ancestors converted to Bohraism out of their own free will although I have a different take on that.
That's what Bohras are 'taught', isn't there a distant possibility that brahmin ancestors were left with no choice but to accept Islam and they would have chosen bohra stream as they felt appropriate from the 'available' streams of Islam at that time?



ponga bhori
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 4:01 am

#14

Unread post by ponga bhori » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:25 pm

The Dawoodi-Bihra Hindus converted to Islam to do fitna with the Muslim Rulers of their time. It started with the first Hindu Rulers/ Viceroys Bharmal and Tharmal purchasing the Franchise and being installed as Dias one of the Dawoodi Bohras and other for Sulemani Bohras.



ghulam muhammed
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#15

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:21 pm

awakened wrote:That's what Bohras are 'taught', isn't there a distant possibility that brahmin ancestors were left with no choice but to accept Islam and they would have chosen bohra stream as they felt appropriate from the 'available' streams of Islam at that time?
Its very logical that they would have joined the mainstream Islam instead of venturing into a new unknown sect but the fact remains that some of them did embrace Bohraism. Now the question is who ?? How could a Brahmin opt for a miniscule sect when he enjoyed all the privileges of a raja in his own territory, he literally ruled over the downtrodden, we witness this arrogance even in the 20th century so just imagine the clout they had some 900 years ago. Hence to say that Brahmins opted for Bohraism is a myth as the fact is that the ones who converted came from the bottom layer of society, they were shunned as untouchables and could not lead a dignified life. Even in present times we see that most of the conversions take place among dalits as they are easily lured by the Christian missionaries, they are soft targets which were exploited by Christians as well as Bohra missionaries from Yemen. Although we cannot rule out other castes like the baniya and lohar community which opted for Bohraism but their numbers are very few.

Its very difficult to prove the above as there are no official records from neutral sources to prove the same as the Bohra clergy is very secretive about it but sheer logic and common sense says that it would never be easy to convince the elite upper class Brahmins who had no qualms about their own religion which put them on a very high pedestal.



Ozdundee
Posts: 807
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

#16

Unread post by Ozdundee » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:18 am

Is there a serious threat that Bohras would get converted to Hindus if the Hindu mission was effective ?

If a Hindu asked me to convert from Muslim to Hindu..goodness this would almost be impossible ...I mean may be Sunni, Salafi, Jaferee, Judaism or Christianity ...atheism too ...but Hindu really ?..what would be proposition ....to get one chane faith?



zinger
Posts: 1865
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

#17

Unread post by zinger » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:30 am

SBM wrote: I do hope that one or both of Dais will issue a very strong worded statement repudiating this news story before the Extremist Muslims will use this propaganda against Abdes/Amtes
this is exactly what i was thinking yesterday. a press release needs to be sent out, condemning and negating this



DisillusionedDB
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:20 am

#18

Unread post by DisillusionedDB » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:00 am

zinger wrote:
SBM wrote: I do hope that one or both of Dais will issue a very strong worded statement repudiating this news story before the Extremist Muslims will use this propaganda against Abdes/Amtes
this is exactly what i was thinking yesterday. a press release needs to be sent out, condemning and negating this
The retaliatory press release condemning this should be instantaneous and has to be endorsed by the Dai. It would also be more effective if MS would have a personal word with Modi. I said MS because he is hand-on-shoulder friends with Modi and as far as Modi is concerned, MS is the Dai.



Abuzer
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:47 am

#19

Unread post by Abuzer » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:12 am

awakened wrote:
Abuzer wrote:Bismillah hi taa'laa
Salaam
we live in strange time but I am sure true momeenin wont get affected by all this, only munafiqun will get washed away in this high tide of worldly storms.

start learning and teaching Quran with understanding and also follow established sunnah practically in day to day life, this is the only way to protect your Imaan in this hard times.
Probably you are right, this is the hard time, similar to the one when our Brahmin ancestors faced when they were forced to embrace Islam.
if you or your ancestors were forced please you and your family should do a ghar wapsi.
those who accepted Islam with reason and logic will stick with Islam all their life, IA Ameen.



adna_mumin
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:43 pm

#20

Unread post by adna_mumin » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:26 am

Although one wishes to see a public opposition to this concerted Sangh effort malafide as it is, one can be reasonably sure it is NOT coming; not withstanding all the public affection of the PM's extended family with the family of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA!

On a different note unless "illegal" why should a secular country stop any propagation of any belief? Why this outcry?

Would've liked to believe my Bohra brothers and sisters (true mohibbeen of Imam Husain AS) would "give the sword, not oath" to enemy of Islam. Still hold that belief.



qutub_mamajiwala
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#21

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:20 am

You cannot convert a person to Hinduism.You have to be born as a Hindu or else denied it forever.What is happening is reconversions.The people who were born as Hindus but accepted islam or bohraism (forcefully or outof free will--we will never know ) and those who want to go back to their roots now out of their free will, should be allowed to do so.
why such a hue and cry, i dont understand.



rang
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:50 am

#22

Unread post by rang » Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:21 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
awakened wrote: I will let the historians to answer that, if you have knowledge please share.
In fact it would be interesting to know your views on the subject as Bohras are always taught that their ancestors converted to Bohraism out of their own free will although I have a different take on that.
In one of my post I wrote “ I was so much confused when I read the History of Aga Khani , written by a Scholar who was excommunicated from the community” Now after the start of ‘Ghar Wapsi’ campaign , I really feel that every word from his pen were right. Bohra’s, Aga Khani’s , Khoja Isna Asari’s, Shamshi’s , Sunni Vohra’s and many other are the branches of a same tree , planted by someone who was or were not from Indian Soil. Multan ( In Pakistan) has also a very vital connection with all of us. All of us have some link with Multan and the Sufi’s. Many practice which the AGK‘s are practicing, is now been practiced by us, which clearly shows that concept, ideology and philosophy is the same. There was some very big mess in the History. For 11 years I have studied Islamite in my school, and I was always unsatisfied by the behavior and doings of our clergy’s and the teaching. Just take the example of SMS, teaching us that office work is unsafe for females, and the female should avoid working within this environment, but my question is then why girl’s students were raped in Jamia Karachi. Is your Jamia safe for the females? The rapists were no other than your so called Ustads or janabs. What punishment you inflicted on them? Were they not terrorist (who terrorizes their victim during the crime) we speak of giving the punishment to the Terrorist, why do we spare our terrorist.



SBM
Posts: 6151
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#23

Unread post by SBM » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:25 am

zinger wrote:
SBM wrote: I do hope that one or both of Dais will issue a very strong worded statement repudiating this news story before the Extremist Muslims will use this propaganda against Abdes/Amtes
this is exactly what i was thinking yesterday. a press release needs to be sent out, condemning and negating this
Wow Mojiza--Zinger agreed with me instead of mocking me... :P :D



JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

#24

Unread post by JC » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:44 am

A small article worth reading ........ the last sentence sums it all up ............ (good thing: Pakistanis are getting out of denial!)

http://www.dawn.com/news/1152756/forced-conversions



anajmi
Posts: 13399
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#25

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:16 pm

There was a picture on this forum where we see some bohras standing with folded hands in front of a krishna or rama idol. I tried searching but couldn't find it. I think the bohras should blow up that picture and hang it in front Raudat Tahera and Saifee Mahal and other prominent bohra locations. That way when the VHP/Bajrang Dal comes to convert them, they will see that the bohra Dais have already done their job for them. The bohras already spend more time with folded hands in front of idols than in sujud in front of Allah. They will hence leave the bohras alone.



ghulam muhammed
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#26

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:42 pm

Extracts of an email :-

Dear Friends,

In 1495 CE, after conquest of Granada, in Muslim Spain, King Fernandez kicked out ruling Muslims and Jews; many Muslims and Jews said they were Christians for saving their lives. Fernandez army asked them to drink alcohol and eat pork without any hesitation for proving their Christianity.

The current wave of conversion or ghar wapsi is real. RSS/BJP is targeting Bohras because they know Bohras do not think; they follow what Syedna says. If RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal, Shivsena and its alike target Syedna and his family by luring them to greater power and big money or threaten them confiscating their black money, those in greedy family will fall for it. Syedna claims to be from Rajput Family and Brahman family; it may be their Ghar Wapsi. Then the whole Bohra structure will collapse. Syedna will not defend Bohras from outside attacks. PM Modi has already separated Bohras from other Muslims by praising Syedna. It is a part of political strategy, Modi and Hindu zealots saying different things. Mr. Mohan Bhagwat and other pro Hindutva groups run PM Modi.

In Dahod, some Hindus told several slum dwelling Muslim families, if they perform Havan, a Hindu ceremony, their luck will change and promised them other help. Those Muslims joined the Havan. We from Roshan Safar approached those alienated Muslims and asked them why they were leaving beautiful religion of Islam. We have been helping them over years. Several women cried and said they don’t want to leave Islam and all families recited Kalema-e-shahadt ''La Illaha Ill`Allah, Muhammadan Rusull`Allah''. We will continue to help them.

My appeal to Muslims and other fair-minded people is please form helping-Groups and visit those Muslims and Christians living in slums. Make them feel they are not neglected. This is the best way fighting those abominable communal forces.

Why Bohra Syedna is quiet? With immediate effect, he should ask Bohras not to wear Bohra attire of Topi, kurta, Izar, Rida etc. It makes Bohras lurid/obvious and creates envy and malicious propagandas. Even Bohras by themselves, without waiting for Farman from Kothar, should shed their Topi, Kurta, saya, Izar and Rida and start wearing common clothing. Bohras and Muslims need not be conspicuous like Sardarjis. Other Muslims also should keep low profile especially Muslim women wearing Saudi type Hijabs/Burqas. They should wear Sari or Audhani as many Muslim women wear.

Asghar Vasanwala



adna_mumin
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:43 pm

#27

Unread post by adna_mumin » Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:05 pm

Extremely poor taste. Request admin to clear this image.



ghulam muhammed
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#28

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:19 pm

Tell the saffron brigade to conduct "Ghar Wapsi" of BJP's top leaders :-

Image



SBM
Posts: 6151
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#29

Unread post by SBM » Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:55 pm

adna_mumin wrote:Extremely poor taste. Request admin to clear this image.
Why it is in poor taste? If SMS can ride in Silver Horse buggie which is used by Jains and if he does not object to WADHAWA, a Hindu ritual and when he is using Wajebaats and Ziyafaats as CASH COWS what is so wrong about the picture.



anajmi
Posts: 13399
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#30

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:03 pm

When a bohra sees that picture, he will be like - "Su eni Nirali Shaan Che". But if someone from VHP/Bajrang Dal sees it, they will be offended, just like Muslims were when some moron decided to defile the picture of the Kaaba with a hindu idol. I would ask the Admin to delete it.