Hindutva Brigade Now Targets Dawoodi Bohras.

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
adna_mumin
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:43 pm

Re: Hindutva Brigade Now Targets Dawoodi Bohras.

#31

Unread post by adna_mumin » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:11 pm

SBM wrote:
adna_mumin wrote:Extremely poor taste. Request admin to clear this image.
Why it is in poor taste? If SMS can ride in Silver Horse buggie which is used by Jains and if he does not object to WADHAWA, a Hindu ritual and when he is using Wajebaats and Ziyafaats as CASH COWS what is so wrong about the picture.
Because

a) Grant nothing else but he is still a Muslim professing the Kalemat us shahadat. No muslim will/should defame another and portray him otherwise.
b) He is Shehzada of a Dai ul mutlaq which this site recognizes as the 52nd Dai of Dawoodi Bohras
c) Is believed by the majority of bohra community to be the Dai, so the picture is offensive in the worst possible way to this site's target audience



haqniwaat
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

#32

Unread post by haqniwaat » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:24 pm

So adna mumin,
You don't find this offensive and isn't SKQ a shehzada of a da'i al mutlaq - https://dearmrqutbuddin.wordpress.com/2 ... deologies/. Ready to go to court on this one, too?!



adna_mumin
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:43 pm

#33

Unread post by adna_mumin » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:37 pm

haqniwaat wrote:So adna mumin,
You don't find this offensive and isn't SKQ a shehzada of a da'i al mutlaq - https://dearmrqutbuddin.wordpress.com/2 ... deologies/. Ready to go to court on this one, too?!
Well, i don't police the internet :D I am a member of this forum so it was my duty when i saw something derogatory and defamatory here to voice my opposition.

I will read up that blog to find abuse against Syedna Qutbuddin tus per your suggestion. Can you help if you found it already?



humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

#34

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:53 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:Extracts of an email :-
If RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal, Shivsena and its alike target Syedna and his family by luring them to greater power and big money or threaten them confiscating their black money, those in greedy family will fall for it. Syedna claims to be from Rajput Family and Brahman family; it may be their Ghar Wapsi. Then the whole Bohra structure will collapse. Syedna will not defend Bohras from outside attacks.
Kothar would apply its diplomatic tactics on the hindutva forces to leave them and bohra community alone. they need to protect the abde sheeps for their future generations. Money talks, deep down, these hindutva forces are nothing but political pawns creating some news to be in limelight. kothar will stuff these wolves with more money and life will continue. these hindutva forces have sensed the wealth and gullibility, submissive nature of bohra community. with all the tamasha that is going on, these guys have a good chance to milk kothar with this threat.

RSS, VHP, BD, or SS is not going to allure these mullahs with money, it is going to be other way around with bohra mullaji ... pay the haftaa in millions to remain bohra and enjoy peace from these political goons. kothar is not going to pay from their pockets, eventually the commoners bohra and devout abde are going to dole out monies for this venture.

Kothar is milking the cow and feeding to the wolves.



qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 995
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

#35

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:55 am

well
there was a video he is blessing goats for zabihat in surat ashara.
have u seen it?
same as krishna blessing cows--though not for zabihat.



humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

#36

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:06 am

IMO : Abdes can claim a new title / new religion for themselves, with their human worshipping practices, justifying texts and living diety. plus previous connection to being hindus, these may help abde remain abdes. in many ways, abdes don't like to be associated with muslims and prefer a unique indentity of bohra abdes. Further more, a Kothari mullah can explain the hindutva brigade of the caste system within bohra community.



Mkenya
Posts: 357
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

#37

Unread post by Mkenya » Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:07 am

The da'i was unable to do much during the time of the Gujrat riots, and he will be unable to do much now. His wealth will be protected for sure, and perhaps thats all he really cares about, despite the tear-jerking rhetoric. This happened even during the time of SMB, so one can't expect anything new from DMMS, as specially the latter only really cares about money and power in any case.[/quote]

It pains me read the above post. What defeatism! I recall the Aga Khan air-lifted thousand of his followers to Canada after the Gujarat riots. Does Kothar have the administrative capacity to do that? Can you imagine seeing Shahzadas roll up their sleeves in times of disaster. I remember vividly when there was a political revolution in Zanzibar soon after 51st. visit in 1963, Kothar did nothing for Bohras there. Our women and girls were raped, businesses were looted. I also remember it was the Bohras from the mainland of Kenya, Tanganyik and Uganda who helped. Kothar was busy consolidating its power on the East African Jamaats!



Ozdundee
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

#38

Unread post by Ozdundee » Thu Dec 25, 2014 10:02 am

Modi worship by SMS has placed him in trap.

He cannot run to Muslims and cannot bite the hand of BJP. Also the community is at its weakest state , SKQ on one side, refromists of the rise, moderates on the rise, western governments staying away, FGM cases, hunting protests.

Then ideological weakness as they have drifted to human worship , the poor were neglected .

As a refromists I would say as Bohras benefited from Indias secular freedom , if those Bohras who wish to leave and convert to otjer faiths at their own will so be it. We wish them well if that brings them spiritual peace.



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#39

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Dec 25, 2014 5:15 pm

A senior journalist, Bharat Bhushan, has ably exposed the modus operandi. He deserves to be quoted in extenso for he has also exposed American deceit. “The Dharam Jagran Samity, an RSS body, is seeking donations for conversion—Rs.5 lakh to convert a Muslim and Rs.1 lakh to convert a Christian—to Hinduism. Its letter soliciting cash contributions claims that Christians and Muslims have become a ‘problem’ for the country and says, ‘Bandhuwar (Friends), lots of money will be required in the “ghar wapsi” because the work of conversion is increasing—more workers and more people need to be covered.’ In offering allurements for conversion, how is it any different from the Christian proselytisers the RSS criticises?

“Moreover, foreign funds for conversion are used just as Christian missionaries are said to do. The activities of the RSS in tribal areas have been funded by a U.S.-based body, International Development Relief Fund (IDRF). According to the Campaign to Stop Funding Hate, also based in the U.S., 82 per cent of All IDRF funding goes to the RSS in India and 70 per cent of the monies are used for ‘Hinduisation/tribal/education’ work, aimed at spreading Hindutva ideology among tribals.

“The main focus of the RSS had been the reconversion of Christians. Its prominent organisations which work among the tribals are Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram, Ekal Vidyalaya, Sewa Bharati, Vivekananda Kendra, Bharat Kalyan Parishad and Friends of Tribal Society. Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram, Ekal Vidyalaya and Sewa Bharati have been implicated in the past in anti-Christian violence in Madhya Pradesh” (Asian Age, 13 December 13, 2014). The U.S. administration should be ashamed of itself.

http://www.frontline.in/the-nation/conv ... 715567.ece



dismantled
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:34 pm

#40

Unread post by dismantled » Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:40 pm

Why are you blaming the US Administration? America is a free country and anyone can donate here. Muslims who live in America do not participate in American politics. What do you expect? Look at the poor bohris. Here, these qutbis are being persecuted by mufaddalis and qutbi Americans won't even stand up for themselves! What a bunch of losers! They have nobody to blame but themselves.



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#41

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:51 pm

dismantled wrote:Why are you blaming the US Administration?
The writer of the subject article is right in blaming the US administration due to its sheer hypocrisy as on one hand it refused to issue a Visa to Modi due to his role in the Gujarat mass genocide of 2002 which was carried out by the saffron brigade and on the other hand US is allowing the same Hindutva organisations to raise funds for its activities in India.



SBM
Posts: 6183
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#42

Unread post by SBM » Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:59 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:
dismantled wrote:Why are you blaming the US Administration?
The writer of the subject article is right in blaming the US administration due to its sheer hypocrisy as on one hand it refused to issue a Visa to Modi due to his role in the Gujarat mass genocide of 2002 which was carried out by the saffron brigade and on the other hand US is allowing the same Hindutva organisations to raise funds for its activities in India.
Well Br GM
Modi was refused visa because a great number of American Muslim Organizations came together and they worked with many other Non Muslim American Organization to declare NaMo as Personal Non Grata but when American Muslims saw that all the Indian Muslim Leaders are lining up to kiss his a-- and put garlands around his neck and those Mullahs included one of the biggest hypocrite SMS and the other from Barlevi and Deobandis then why should American Muslims put their neck out. I was one of those organizers thru CAIR to oppose Modi but then tide has changed. he is now the head of one of the largest democracies and India is one of the largest growing financial power. As an American I think US Govt did what is right for us. American Muslims also realized why should we oppose NaMo when Indian Muslims have already caved in,
BTW many Muslim Organizations are also allowed to raise funds including Dawat E Hadiya USA and part of that money is going to NaMo thru SMS and his goons
For American Muslims to oppose NaMo while Indian Muslim bowing to him is like saying Muddai Sust Gawaah Chust.



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#43

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:31 pm

Bro SBM,

I agree to all that you said but the US government's refusal to grant visa to Modi was not only due to the strong protests by Muslim organisations in USA (for which they should be commended) but also due to the various reports filed by many human rights organisations including Amnesty International which found Modi guilty with regard to the Gujarat mass genocide. It is a sad state of affairs that many selfish Muslim leaders including the Bohra Dai had started becoming soft towards Modi even before he became the PM of India thereby belittling the efforts of the NRI Muslims.

The US is not taking any action against Dawat-e-Hadiyah as they probably don't have the required evidences against them but turning a blind eye to the funding of Hindutva organisations which are complicit in various anti-muslim activities in India and which are making headlines in newspapers is totally unreasonable.

If the US issues visa to Modi NOW then it is quite understandable as he is the current head of the state so it is issuing the visa to Modi in his capacity as the PM of India as otherwise the billions of dollars worth ongoing trade between the two countries would be jeopardised.



alivasan
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 9:28 am

#44

Unread post by alivasan » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:14 am

Agree with asgarbhai vasanwala. The STD (saya, topi, jungli dadhi) enforcement as we now understand from haqniwat post was outcome of PYN mutlaqa, which is now coming as challenge when threats like vhp,RSS targeting minorities to convert to hinduism.after 9/11 terror attacks public with Junglee beard was more prone to threats from govt and security agencies in western part and also far east japan. SMS should make liberal polices regarding STD and Indian bohra should stick to mainstream Islam not showing image as aloof Hindu like cult. This will keep hidden agenda of RSS,vhp at bay.khuda sagla mumineen nu iman megfuz rakhe.



zinger
Posts: 1872
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

#45

Unread post by zinger » Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:55 am

SBM wrote:
zinger wrote: this is exactly what i was thinking yesterday. a press release needs to be sent out, condemning and negating this
Wow Mojiza--Zinger agreed with me instead of mocking me... :P :D
SBM bhai, i have told you this in PM too. i have no personal grouse or issue with you. my only issue with you is when you:
a. Selectively pick up peoples quotes, deleting what was before and after and only picking up points that suit you
b. sit back quietly and at times, even side with people who bash Shia and Fatimid beliefs
c. Make an issue when none exists, and
d. Act like a troll

I actually liked the religous attitude you have, of a ShiSu/SuShi. Did you forget that?

Really,,,, i have no personal vendetta with you



zinger
Posts: 1872
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

#46

Unread post by zinger » Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:59 am

adna_mumin wrote:Extremely poor taste. Request admin to clear this image.
i agree. i second this. for no other reason other than the fact that it is a mockery



zinger
Posts: 1872
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

#47

Unread post by zinger » Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:01 am

SBM wrote:
adna_mumin wrote:Extremely poor taste. Request admin to clear this image.
Why it is in poor taste? If SMS can ride in Silver Horse buggie which is used by Jains and if he does not object to WADHAWA, a Hindu ritual and when he is using Wajebaats and Ziyafaats as CASH COWS what is so wrong about the picture.
the Wadhavanu has already been discussed in great details.

the silver chariot analogy is devoid of any logic at best and your statement of CASH COWS is ludicrous



rang
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:50 am

#48

Unread post by rang » Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:04 am

alivasan wrote:Agree with asgarbhai vasanwala. The STD (saya, topi, jungli dadhi) enforcement as we now understand from haqniwat post was outcome of PYN mutlaqa, which is now coming as challenge when threats like vhp,RSS targeting minorities to convert to hinduism.after 9/11 terror attacks public with Junglee beard was more prone to threats from govt and security agencies in western part and also far east japan. SMS should make liberal polices regarding STD and Indian bohra should stick to mainstream Islam not showing image as aloof Hindu like cult. This will keep hidden agenda of RSS,vhp at bay.khuda sagla mumineen nu iman megfuz rakhe.
I think Bohra’s will be in problem for a brief period and many of us with think seriously from now on ' where we stand '? We can’t expect any help from the other Muslim Community and the reason is that we have been taught to hate all other Muslim. ‘ Aye logo Jannat Maa Nahi jaie , Aenu koi cheez Kabuul nathi, aina karta to Hindu Sara chey’ always teaching and specking ill of our Muslim brothers. During Haj also ‘ Arey apna Maula nu to ehsan chey, Aa logo ne halat to jo, Abu Bakaria Ne quom chey.’. Do you think they are not aware what we think of them? These Bohra’s must feel shame if they have a little bit of ’ Gairat’ in them. Few years back when a Bomb exploded in Karachi at Haydri, I was the witness because during the explosion I was with my friend in a 4 th floor of a building. Immediately after the explosion people from different areas rushed to our help. A fleet of Ambulances ( No Bohra Ambulances were ever seen) some 20 or more started rescue operation by loading the injured and the dead in their Cab for Hospital. Peoples from different community were helping to lift the Body parts of the dead and the injured into the ambulance. Not even a single so called ‘Mian Bhai’ even thought for a moment why we are helping these guys who always speaks ill and bad of us?



Abuzer
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:47 am

#49

Unread post by Abuzer » Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:03 am

^ Normal bohras have good relation with Muslims and they keep very close relation with them, only few kothari lovers have above concept about Muslims. most dont buy Amil stories in Masjid which is to divide and rule.



fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

#50

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:56 am

I have more respect for non-bohra muslims the reason is, in case of any riots (experienced in 1993) or problems these so called OLA MUSALMAN or BHATKELA LOG are the FIRST one to come for the rescue.

Maximum of Bohra people are Selfish and Coward



Munira_RV
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:38 pm

#51

Unread post by Munira_RV » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:50 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
awakened wrote:That's what Bohras are 'taught', isn't there a distant possibility that brahmin ancestors were left with no choice but to accept Islam and they would have chosen bohra stream as they felt appropriate from the 'available' streams of Islam at that time?
Its very logical that they would have joined the mainstream Islam instead of venturing into a new unknown sect but the fact remains that some of them did embrace Bohraism. Now the question is who ?? How could a Brahmin opt for a miniscule sect when he enjoyed all the privileges of a raja in his own territory, he literally ruled over the downtrodden, we witness this arrogance even in the 20th century so just imagine the clout they had some 900 years ago. Hence to say that Brahmins opted for Bohraism is a myth as the fact is that the ones who converted came from the bottom layer of society, they were shunned as untouchables and could not lead a dignified life. Even in present times we see that most of the conversions take place among dalits as they are easily lured by the Christian missionaries, they are soft targets which were exploited by Christians as well as Bohra missionaries from Yemen. Although we cannot rule out other castes like the baniya and lohar community which opted for Bohraism but their numbers are very few.

Its very difficult to prove the above as there are no official records from neutral sources to prove the same as the Bohra clergy is very secretive about it but sheer logic and common sense says that it would never be easy to convince the elite upper class Brahmins who had no qualms about their own religion which put them on a very high pedestal.
Mr. Gholam Mohamed.

Where is the proof of all you wrote?

Prove your case above?



Abuzer
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:47 am

#52

Unread post by Abuzer » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:49 pm

GM your posts are getting sicker day by day, how can you forgot that so many Brahmans converted to bohra that their jinoy wait was more than 100kg.

some one should post that riwayat for our brother GM.



fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

#53

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:02 pm

I THINK 100 kg jinoy is a myth, if it was true than the population of dawoodi bohra would have been much more than what is today.



Munira_RV
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:38 pm

#54

Unread post by Munira_RV » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:11 pm

fustrate_Bohra wrote:I THINK 100 kg jinoy is a myth, if it was true than the population of dawoodi bohra would have been much more than what is today.
It is not myth - there was 'fitnat' by Jaffer he conspired with Sunni emperors and by force or con got many Bohra mumineen converted into Sunni.



SBM
Posts: 6183
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#55

Unread post by SBM » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:57 pm

Munira_RV wrote:
fustrate_Bohra wrote:I THINK 100 kg jinoy is a myth, if it was true than the population of dawoodi bohra would have been much more than what is today.
It is not myth - there was 'fitnat' by Jaffer he conspired with Sunni emperors and by force or con got many Bohra mumineen converted into Sunni.
So the Imaan of those Bohras was very weak and they gave into temptation, . TELL US WHO IS YOUR DAI?



Munira_RV
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:38 pm

#56

Unread post by Munira_RV » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:07 pm

SBM wrote:
Munira_RV wrote: It is not myth - there was 'fitnat' by Jaffer he conspired with Sunni emperors and by force or con got many Bohra mumineen converted into Sunni.
So the Imaan of those Bohras was very weak and they gave into temptation, . TELL US WHO IS YOUR DAI?
SBM, your Iman is very weak and you gave into temptation to keep yourself in SMS fold, instead of publicly declaring in newspaper your revolt against his tyranny. Be brave, declare in newspaper/publicly with your contact details about your support to progressive's and revolt with SMS.

My Dai = no one.



SBM
Posts: 6183
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#57

Unread post by SBM » Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:05 pm

Munira aka Badrijanab
If you are willing to pay for full page ads in any of the newspaper I will be more than happy to say what you are asking me to. :mrgreen:
My Dai = no one.
So if you have no DAI how can you call yourself a BOHRA, Dai is appointed by an IMAM who is in PURDAH and for any TRUE PRISTINE FOLLOWER OF DAWOODI BOHRA there has to be a DAI. So you are not a true Pristine Dawoodi Bohra but a Wahabi



Munira_RV
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:38 pm

#58

Unread post by Munira_RV » Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:49 pm

SBM wrote:Munira aka Badrijanab
If you are willing to pay for full page ads in any of the newspaper I will be more than happy to say what you are asking me to. :mrgreen:
My Dai = no one.
So if you have no DAI how can you call yourself a BOHRA, Dai is appointed by an IMAM who is in PURDAH and for any TRUE PRISTINE FOLLOWER OF DAWOODI BOHRA there has to be a DAI. So you are not a true Pristine Dawoodi Bohra but a Wahabi
SBM, start with this website, publish your ITS card, Passport copy and utility bill (not older than three months) and declare per previous post in this thread.

With your line of argument, you have failed the Progressives, who claim that SMB/SMS do not tick-mark them as Bohras or otherwise. They give misaaq to Imam and by virtue of that they are Bohras.

Yes, you are right, I am Wahabi.



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#59

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:11 pm

Munira_RV wrote:
ghulam muhammed wrote: Its very logical that they would have joined the mainstream Islam instead of venturing into a new unknown sect but the fact remains that some of them did embrace Bohraism. Now the question is who ?? How could a Brahmin opt for a miniscule sect when he enjoyed all the privileges of a raja in his own territory, he literally ruled over the downtrodden, we witness this arrogance even in the 20th century so just imagine the clout they had some 900 years ago. Hence to say that Brahmins opted for Bohraism is a myth as the fact is that the ones who converted came from the bottom layer of society, they were shunned as untouchables and could not lead a dignified life. Even in present times we see that most of the conversions take place among dalits as they are easily lured by the Christian missionaries, they are soft targets which were exploited by Christians as well as Bohra missionaries from Yemen. Although we cannot rule out other castes like the baniya and lohar community which opted for Bohraism but their numbers are very few.

Its very difficult to prove the above as there are no official records from neutral sources to prove the same as the Bohra clergy is very secretive about it but sheer logic and common sense says that it would never be easy to convince the elite upper class Brahmins who had no qualms about their own religion which put them on a very high pedestal.
Mr. Gholam Mohamed.

Where is the proof of all you wrote?

Prove your case above?
Why do you require a proof of something which I said is logical and requires common sense to understand ? I have already said that there are no literature either by neutral sources or bohra establishments to prove beyond doubt that Brahmins were converted to Bohras. So the onus lies on you to prove me wrong.



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#60

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:18 pm

Abuzer wrote:GM your posts are getting sicker day by day, how can you forgot that so many Brahmans converted to bohra that their jinoy wait was more than 100kg.
Actually it is you who is so sick of your multiple IDs that you have forgotten that there is NO MENTION of the 1.25 mann Janoi myth in any Bohra literature and in case you find the same then do post it on this forum because Munira_RV in her earlier male avtar of badrijanab had also failed to provide any evidence when I had asked for it on another thread.