Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
think_for_yourself
Posts: 387
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#151

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:05 pm

dal-chaval-palidu wrote:
think_for_yourself wrote:OO53 so funny! "Reckless with their social standing..." Like there aren't 6.99 billion other people on this planet to socialize with :roll:
Still, your compliment is accepted. We are indeed a bunch of people with strong conviction. And yes we have sacrificed things such as our "social connections" so that we could hail as our Dai, one whom we did not secretly think of as a dumbass and liar.

We have moved right ahead and made new social connections and as you saw in that party, renewed old ones....why do I get the feeling that I know who you are :D
TFY,

Don;t use such words for SMS. You all are better than the use of such words.
I should have elaborated. I was quoting UnhappyBohra who had used "dumbass" for one whom he atleast outwardly acknowledges as Moula.

But I have no hesitation in calling MS a liar.

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#152

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:27 pm

think_for_yourself wrote:
dal-chaval-palidu wrote:OO53,

I too admire the idealism of the SKQ side. And I respect them for that. They could have taken the money, my guess is a lot of money, and stepped away, but they choose to fight - they deserve our respect and support.

I am on the same side that you are currently, but, Inshallah, hope to take a stand and openly go to SKQ side at some point.
What do you mean taken the money? You mean taken the money that Muffu's chamchas offered?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9473&start=300#p151723

The above is what I was referring to

zinger
Posts: 1973
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#153

Unread post by zinger » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:41 pm

qjbj wrote:This Al-Noor looks like re-carnation of "Abuzer" who spoke form both sides of his mouth. Same style with green color font. I guess a zebra can't change his stripes. Al-Noor looks like a MS spy who has been instructed to say not so nice things about both sides but in a clever twist tries to make SKQ look or appear to be as bad as MS. This way he is trying to get those on sidelines to say both sides are the same so why not go with status quo and keep contributing to the MS gravy train. But we all know this won't work and he has now been caught with his pants down.
you have been around long enough to know that its the same person. since the time you have joined, he/she has had alteast 10 ids. wake up and smell the coffee my friend.

BTW, he is neither on this side nor on that. i dont think he is even a Shia to begin with

Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#154

Unread post by Al-Noor » Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:56 am

qjbj wrote:This Al-Noor looks like re-carnation of "Abuzer" who spoke form both sides of his mouth. Same style with green color font. I guess a zebra can't change his stripes. Al-Noor looks like a MS spy who has been instructed to say not so nice things about both sides but in a clever twist tries to make SKQ look or appear to be as bad as MS. This way he is trying to get those on sidelines to say both sides are the same so why not go with status quo and keep contributing to the MS gravy train. But we all know this won't work and he has now been caught with his pants down.
Thanx for confirming my doubts you are same like zombie muffy followers. :wink: keep guessing while I keep spreading truth about your new aqa.

its a simple question that why khuzema has not appointed any mazoon and mukasir yet, but as usual his dumb abdes gets frustrated and starts running in same circle like muffy abdes. after all both groups are mushreqin. :idea:

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 568
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#155

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:54 am

Who are you calling a dumb Abde Al Noor??? DCP, TFY, Qjbj, or Zinger? All of them sound infinitely smarter than you. So you must be the dumb one. The dumb whatever.

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#156

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:46 pm

think_for_yourself wrote:
dal-chaval-palidu wrote: TFY,

Don;t use such words for SMS. You all are better than the use of such words.
I should have elaborated. I was quoting UnhappyBohra who had used "dumbass" for one whom he atleast outwardly acknowledges as Moula.

But I have no hesitation in calling MS a liar.
Can you give some concrete examples of the lies? That (SMS is a liar) is a strong claim to make without supporting proof.

think_for_yourself
Posts: 387
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#157

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:51 pm

dal-chaval-palidu wrote:
think_for_yourself wrote: I should have elaborated. I was quoting UnhappyBohra who had used "dumbass" for one whom he atleast outwardly acknowledges as Moula.

But I have no hesitation in calling MS a liar.
Can you give some concrete examples of the lies? That (SMS is a liar) is a strong claim to make without supporting proof.
Surprised you need to ask. The man was lying in his misaq for at least the last 25 years of Burhanuddin Aqa's life! He aaid in waaz recently that he suspected Burhanuddin Moula's Mazoon of making trouble for many years. So while he had adawat in his heart he continued to make a show of accepting the Mazoon (the one he suspected as being a trouble maker) as defining Burhanuddin Moula's Dawat and worthy of taking kasam of.

Secondly he stood by and allowed Moiz bs to Lie during the nass drama about what Burhanuddin Moula had said, thus becoming complicit in the propagation of that lie.

Thirdly he told Taizoon bs not to worry about the text of the misaq but rather take his word that the Mazoon was no good. All the while he made thousands take an oath before God to abide by the same text as he took their misaq.

Fourthly when his grand daughter got written raza from Burhanuddin Moula to attend Cathedral school, he overrode that raza and forbade her to attend that school. All the while he lied about Burhanuddin Moula's wishes being paramount.

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#158

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:39 am

think_for_yourself wrote:
dal-chaval-palidu wrote: Can you give some concrete examples of the lies? That (SMS is a liar) is a strong claim to make without supporting proof.
Surprised you need to ask. The man was lying in his misaq for at least the last 25 years of Burhanuddin Aqa's life! He aaid in waaz recently that he suspected Burhanuddin Moula's Mazoon of making trouble for many years. So while he had adawat in his heart he continued to make a show of accepting the Mazoon (the one he suspected as being a trouble maker) as defining Burhanuddin Moula's Dawat and worthy of taking kasam of.

Secondly he stood by and allowed Moiz bs to Lie during the nass drama about what Burhanuddin Moula had said, thus becoming complicit in the propagation of that lie.

Thirdly he told Taizoon bs not to worry about the text of the misaq but rather take his word that the Mazoon was no good. All the while he made thousands take an oath before God to abide by the same text as he took their misaq.

Fourthly when his grand daughter got written raza from Burhanuddin Moula to attend Cathedral school, he overrode that raza and forbade her to attend that school. All the while he lied about Burhanuddin Moula's wishes being paramount.
The last one is news to me - I did not know before. But it is a very concrete example. As for the 2nd one - well, he was part of the conspiracy. As for the 1st and the 3rd one, I agree (broadly) with what you say. Thanks for answering my question.

It is not that I thougth anything very different from you, but such concrete examples in print sometimes help. That is why I asked.

Just a follow-up question: So which school did SMS's grand-daughter eventualy attend? Which school is she currently attending?

MMH
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:22 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#159

Unread post by MMH » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:01 pm

His grand children went to MSB in Mazagaon. In fact his sons and daughters we also studying there many years back.


At that time MSB was not tagged to any board hence students who gave their board exams (10th grade SSC) would get their passing certificates from Dadar Municipal School. This I know for a fact because my friends had got their mark sheets/ passing certificates with 'Dadar municipal School' mentioned on them.


I just wonder how it was acceptable to Muffy/ johra that their kids would be considered the 'low income group'. Don't get me wrong, it's not about belonging to the low income group. But this is the 'ruling' family of the prosperous bohra community. The blue blooded royals with an SSC certificate from Dadar municipal school. It sure sounds shoddy.

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#160

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:32 pm

MMH wrote:His grand children went to MSB in Mazagaon. In fact his sons and daughters we also studying there many years back.


At that time MSB was not tagged to any board hence students who gave their board exams (10th grade SSC) would get their passing certificates from Dadar Municipal School. This I know for a fact because my friends had got their mark sheets/ passing certificates with 'Dadar municipal School' mentioned on them.


I just wonder how it was acceptable to Muffy/ johra that their kids would be considered the 'low income group'. Don't get me wrong, it's not about belonging to the low income group. But this is the 'ruling' family of the prosperous bohra community. The blue blooded royals with an SSC certificate from Dadar municipal school. It sure sounds shoddy.
What is MSB? And may be (just a wild guess on my part), it was okay for them because they did not care.

btw, when these royals go to school, do they act like normal kids and socialize/play/chat with other children?

alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#161

Unread post by alam » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:53 pm

MSB is Madresah Saifiyah Burhaniya. It's a grade school forthe last 20+ odd years .

They are normal in presence of non- bohras. Only in presence of bohras, they lose their social skills, their humanity and character and they adopt their monarchy- type accent and flair.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#162

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:03 pm

KQ's children have studied in an elite boarding school in Kodaikanal.

alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#163

Unread post by alam » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:35 pm

Even SKQ's children used to have same monarchy type flair to them, but without the aggressiveness seen among Johara and company. But now due to present circumstances SKQ
Chidren are forced to be more open to feedback and are able to view reality outside of their own bubble.

On the other hand, I'm afraid the SMS folks have completely lost it with their constant battering and abuse they continue to throw at their opponent. They have not only lost it themselves, but have lost the respect and loyalty of an increasing number of the Bohras.

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#164

Unread post by asad » Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:07 am

dal-chaval-palidu wrote:
What is MSB? And may be (just a wild guess on my part), it was okay for them because they did not care.

btw, when these royals go to school, do they act like normal kids and socialize/play/chat with other children?
MSB is Madarsa Saifiya Burhaniya its a starting point of slavery. Schools are supposed to be run on ICSE format and are touted as same but in reality are either CBSE or state board affiliated. a lot of nepotism in teachers selection. Kids are given heavy dose of Moula from the begining and have seen some kids of my rational friends turned into Abde zombies.
due to a lot of bohras queing up to have their kids get admission and limited no. of seats few MSB's charge a hefty donation like Mumbai, Pune, Nasik and Indore MSB's. Education is standard nothing to be proud of.

My friend has personally seen 2 kids from Qasre Mawali in burhani college Mazgaon, closely observed them. they always used to sit aloof, no contact with any other bohra kids, will come and go in their own chauffeur driven cars.

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#165

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:25 am

Thank you, think-for-yourself ben, MMH ben, Alam bhai, and Asad bhai, for patiently answering my questions.

In this month of Ramazan, as always, I/we pray that Allah help our community and the world at large.

MMH
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:22 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#166

Unread post by MMH » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:08 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:KQ's children have studied in an elite boarding school in Kodaikanal.

Only Saifiyah ben saab, the rest were in MSB.

MMH
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:22 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#167

Unread post by MMH » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:10 am

dal-chaval-palidu wrote:
MMH wrote:His grand children went to MSB in Mazagaon. In fact his sons and daughters we also studying there many years back.


At that time MSB was not tagged to any board hence students who gave their board exams (10th grade SSC) would get their passing certificates from Dadar Municipal School. This I know for a fact because my friends had got their mark sheets/ passing certificates with 'Dadar municipal School' mentioned on them.


I just wonder how it was acceptable to Muffy/ johra that their kids would be considered the 'low income group'. Don't get me wrong, it's not about belonging to the low income group. But this is the 'ruling' family of the prosperous bohra community. The blue blooded royals with an SSC certificate from Dadar municipal school. It sure sounds shoddy.
What is MSB? And may be (just a wild guess on my part), it was okay for them because they did not care.

btw, when these royals go to school, do they act like normal kids and socialize/play/chat with other children?
I know they are amicable and have not got hang ups but you have to admit that their upbringing itself is different from ours so they would stick out even if they tried to mingle with the rest.

alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#168

Unread post by alam » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:11 am

asad wrote:
My friend has personally seen 2 kids from Qasre Mawali in burhani college Mazgaon, closely observed them. they always used to sit aloof, no contact with any other bohra kids, will come and go in their own chauffeur driven cars.
Qasre Aali crowd used to go (and still do maybe) Xavier's, K. C etc, and they happily co-mingled with their fellow students. And the Bohra students didn't do any bowing etc. or give them special treatment. It's when Bohra numbers reach a critical mass that slave behavior kicks in and triggers royalty monarchy entitlement. They feed on each other.

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#169

Unread post by Adam » Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:52 pm

Adam wrote:@alam
The argument that Rasulallah SA kept Abu bakr close to him
So, do you believe Abu Bakr was good or bad?
Have you guys figured out whether Abu Bakr was good or bad? Or still confused?

disillusioned
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:46 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#170

Unread post by disillusioned » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:11 pm

Adam wrote:
Adam wrote:@alam So, do you believe Abu Bakr was good or bad?
Have you guys figured out whether Abu Bakr was good or bad? Or still confused?
Have you figured out what rutba had Rasulullah (SA) elevated Abu Bakr to? And how was Abu Bakr referred to in the Mithaq (that has been around since Adam Nabi (SA), right?) that Rasulullah (SA) took of the ummat. Care to enlighten us?

Biradar
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#171

Unread post by Biradar » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:16 pm

disillusioned wrote:
Adam wrote: Have you guys figured out whether Abu Bakr was good or bad? Or still confused?
Have you figured out what rutba had Rasulullah (SA) elevated Abu Bakr to? And how was Abu Bakr referred to in the Mithaq (that has been around since Adam Nabi (SA), right?) that Rasulullah (SA) took of the ummat. Care to enlighten us?
Actually, the real comparison of Abu Bakar is to Dawedar Mr. Muffadul (LA). Just like the Prophet never made give any rutba to Abu Bakar, SMB did not give any rutba to Mr. Muffadul (LA). On the other hand. S. Qutbuddin was always close to SMB, in fact, was his mazoon for 50 years, his brother and one whose name was taken in misaaq for 50 years. In fact, Mr. Muffadul (LA) himself called him "maula", took his name in misaaq and gave allegiance to him. At Gadir, Abu Bakar's name was not taken in the misaaq. One must ask this "Adam" fellow for evidence of Maulana Ali taking name of Abu Bakar in misaaq during the life time of the Prophet. Perhaps he can cook some up. After all, his Master More-La (LA) is an expert at concocting "evidence".

Hence, it is clear that the real Abu Bakar, Muawiya and Yazid of our time is none other than Mr. Muffadul (LA). He is a one-way ticket to hell. Best to leave him while one still has the chance.

SBM
Posts: 6242
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#172

Unread post by SBM » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:24 pm

Adam wrote:
Adam wrote:@alam So, do you believe Abu Bakr was good or bad?
Have you guys figured out whether Abu Bakr was good or bad? Or still confused?
Nothing to figure out, He was Prophet's father in law. Now if you think Prophet was wrong in marrying his daughter and he still did not divorce her till death, then Prophet did not know how to judge the people (Nauzubillaha)
On the other hand SMS married SKQ daugther and then divorced and then had his son married SKQ daughter then issue LAANAT on his father in law and SADDU bhai which Prophet never did , so who has the clouded judgement and who is good or bad

alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#173

Unread post by alam » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:06 pm

Adam wrote:
kimanumanu wrote:According to Adam, a Dai can appoint an impostor in one of those positions and keep him there for 50 years and that's allowed by our glorious daawat texts.
True. Not just according to me.
Rasulullah SAW did the same, and kept them in much higher positions than the Mazoon.

Adam, now that you are back let's draw up the discussion again without sidetracking it. Try engaging in the dialogue with Character without degenerating the discussion with irrelevant questions:

SMB 's mazun and mukasir ended up on two different sides. That crushes fundamental elements in the Misaaq
"aa sagla umoor aney maratib nu iqrar karo and kaho na'am".
That's the fundamental difference.

This is the real crack, the core of the faith that has been ripped. This is the End of story of certainty and 100% perfection on who is appointed by the Dai (you pick who) as your Maazoon or mukasir.

It's only a matter of time before more holes in the dam that holds the core belief crack up.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#174

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:20 pm

alam wrote:It's only a matter of time before more holes in the dam that holds the core belief crack up.
The other "Core" beliefs of Bohras is that he cannot enter Jannat without Ruku Chithi, can Adam prove from his sacred books whether was there such belief during the period of earlier Dais prior to 51st Dai ? Does Daimul Islam mention Ruku Chithi anywhere or has any earlier Dai given Ruku Chithi to a deceased Bohra ? Also, where in Daimul Islam is it mentioned that the flight to Jannat takes off ONLY from the Bohra Qabrastan ? If that's not the case then why Bohras are charged heavily by the "Kafan Chors" to get a place in Bohra Qabrastan ?

Jai
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#175

Unread post by Jai » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:27 pm

Adam wrote:
kimanumanu wrote:According to Adam, a Dai can appoint an impostor in one of those positions and keep him there for 50 years and that's allowed by our glorious daawat texts.
True. Not just according to me.
Rasulullah SAW did the same, and kept them in much higher positions than the Mazoon.
Brother Adam,
These are very serious statements you have made. Can you please cite few narrations to support your claims.

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 568
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#176

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:32 am

Jai wrote:
Adam wrote: True. Not just according to me.
Rasulullah SAW did the same, and kept them in much higher positions than the Mazoon.
Brother Adam,
These are very serious statements you have made. Can you please cite few narrations to support your claims.
Indeed! Can you please clarify if Muffy Moula's current Mazoon and Mukasir are trusted emissaries of MS or his sworn enemies that he is keeping close to him a la Abu bakr.... Should people do real iqraar of them or a wink wink Iqraar, in the manner that Muffy Mola did of the ex-Mazoon for years on end....

SBM
Posts: 6242
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#177

Unread post by SBM » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:10 am

Now Adam is going to go in hiding or wait for his instruction from SMS and it may take time since Adam aka Taha BS lives in Saifee Mahal while SMS is traveling some where he has more important task of collecting Wajebaat then worry about answering these silly questions

Saif53
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#178

Unread post by Saif53 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:14 am

From the QUBTI BOHRA BLOG.
The partner who parted ways!


A reply to Sijill #73:

Fateli Dawat Sijill #73

“Apart” from being “a part” of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin’s (RA) Dawat’s hierarchy, KQ was also his brother. In all his capacity he should have been among the ones who supported, consolidated and strengthened the Dai. “Partnering” a Dai is not one’s right; it is his privilege which should be accepted in the most grateful manner. Yet when we painfully recount the memories affiliated with KQ, we fall short as to comprehend why did he “part” his ways from the Dai, all the way claiming to be his “partner”! Although the expression highlighted above implies Mazoon and not Dai as the chief subject of “establishing fatemi dawat” and attributing it to Syedna’s (RA) waaz is subject to authentication, let us focus on the person of KQ as an unfit character in the script of Dawat, never bother “partnering” a Dai!

Al-Quran al Kareem expounds in the mention of Nabi Haroon’s (AS) association with Musa (AS) in surah ‘Taha’, ayat no: 29-32 – “and provide me a vizier from my family, Haroon, my brother! Strengthen my mission through him and partner him in my pursuit! Clearly the precedence of Musa’s (AS) supplication to provide him a vizier who would strengthen his mission over “partner him in my pursuit” sets the benchmark of “partnering” zaman na saheb. Only by supporting him in all his endeavors shall someone be worthy of being his “partner”. What substance did KQ carry in his association with the Dai apart from being consistently inverse in his acts to the Dai. Be it delivering an Ashara waaz or conducting Lailatul Qadr ibadat, discouraging mumeneen from reaching the Dai’s hazrat or entertaining the munafeqeen and pacifying them, he mauled the policies and nehj of the 52nd Dai with selfish motives beyond recognition! Who kept away from his hazrat imamaiyah though outrageously claiming that dawat was hijacked and subjugated? Who took a U turn on the fateful day of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin’s (RA) heart shattering wafat? Who drove away from his janaza mubarakah? Where was the “partner” then?

On the other hand; who assisted the Dai, advocated for him and eventually became known as his vizier and “partner” on that blissful day of Nass e Jali in Raudat Tahera? Who walked in the path shown by his illuminated finger for 50 years and reached every milestone of his resolves? Who fulfilled his wishes? Who expedited his tasks? Who followed his footsteps? Who attributed every accomplishment to him? To every sound mind this is the genuineness of partnering a Dai!

Secondly, “partnering” a Dai in the establishment of dawat entails much more than “leading namaz and ibadat in Saifee Masjid with shaan-o-shawkat”. Such an audacious claim by KQ should have been substantiated with thorough facts. Leading namaz with raza undoubtedly is a pious service to the Dai but not that which establishes his claim of “partnering” the Dai. Or maybe the Qutbis could not find legitimate incidents to link to their claim!
If leading namaz in Saifee Masjid was the only proof of “partnership” with Dai then many other hudood kiraam of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin’s (RA) dawat could claim eligibility for the same. May Allah Taa’la endow the qutbis with taufeeq to understand that if KQ cannot lead a single namaz without raza, how he is justified to lead the community without Syedna’s (RA) raza and more importantly without his nass!

Saif53
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#179

Unread post by Saif53 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:15 am

From the QUBTI BOHRA BLOG.
Name in The Miisaq or The Misaq in His name?
A reply to Fateli Dawat Sijill #73:
Fateli Dawat Sijill #73
Playing with words is something that the Qutbis are habitual of. Their presentation of facts and inferences is such that without a second glance you may fall prey to them. Referring to KQ as a person whose name was taken in the misaq for 50 years has now become a customary argument. It is like hay that seems huge to the eye and yet is void of any volume and weight. Let us use their strategy of playing with words to refute their recent claim; come taste your own medicine!

Was his name taken in misaq or was the misaq taken in his name? Does it appeal to the intellect that the name that is taken in misaq as "زير دست" - “subordinate” be venerated in the same manner as the one in whose name the misaq is taken - the Dai, the absolute and ultimate. A Dai encompasses all ranks of Dawat including the Mazoon and therefore the misaq is taken in his name, while Mazoon and Mukasir are two elated ranks of Dawat who are supposed to work under the Dai’s directives and therefore their names are mentioned in misaq! Hence, if the Mazoon is considered to be at par with the Dai, it is nothing but a grave illusion. The Mazoon's and Mukasir’s name in misaq is Dai’s benevolence upon them where as the Dai’s name in misaq is fundamental to its very existence. Without a Dai’s name, the misaq is void but without the Mazoon and Mukasir’s name the misaq is very much valid just as it used to be after the wafat of Syedi Saleh bhaisaheb Safiuddin (QR) till the appointment of Syedi Husain bhaisaheb Husamuddin (DM).

As it gets crystal clear that the Mazoon and Mukasir are deputies of the Dai, it also proves that both are fallible and prone to digression. If deprived of tawfeeq and divine sustenance from the Dai, like any other individual, both might deviate from siraat-e-mustaqeem as history has shown us in Ali bin Ibrahim (LA) and other hudood of different eras. Unfortunately KQ slipped into his gauge of arrogance and has attracted la'nat towards him. La'nat on him is the consequence of cause that is none other than his impious self. Allah Ta’la states in Surah Al-Ra’d Ayat no 11.

"Allah does not turn the tide on people unless they themselves change."


KQ had the choice of remaining steadfast to the nass on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin (TUS) like the then Mukasir Saheb Syedi Husain bhaisaheb Husamuddin (DM) whose name too was taken in misaq alongside him.

Moreover Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin (TUS) invited him with open arms to return to the fold of Dawat with repentance to which he did not reply. Another verse from Quran befits this situation where Allah Ta’la states –

“And we are capable of elevating him (the one who has gone astray) but he himself wishes to plunge towards earth and follows his fantasy!"

Now that KQ has accepted disgrace to himself, he should not complain about la'nat being sprayed on him in Saifee Masjid and elsewhere.

Then the deduction made in the subsequent lines after the aforementioned claim is strikingly sick and irrelevant. He claims that the la'nat on him desecrates the 51st and 52nd Dai. As the connection between them and him has been snapped, the la'nat solely comes down on him and has nothing to do with the hurmat of both preceding Dais. Even Allah Taa’la disassociated Nooh Nabi’s (AS) son from him after he refused to board his safina and proclaimed that he is “an unworthy deed”. Syedna Burhanuddin (RA) explains the depth of this expression in one of his waaz – “Allah does not say “he is your unworthy deed” but says that “he is an unworthy deed”, therefore snapping even the biological connection between Nooh (AS) and his son. Similarly the la'nat that is poured on KQ is because “he became an unworthy deed” and his biological and spiritual connection with both the Dais has been severed to its core since he declared his claim.

He is no more that Mazoon whose name was taken in misaq nor is he that son who accompanied his illustrious father and brother in the past!

SBM
Posts: 6242
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#180

Unread post by SBM » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:50 am

^
Adam Bhai is back .. welcome back Taha BS
Any comments about Amte doing Bhumi--oops Muffi Puja....(see the posted photograph on the Chair)