Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

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Sodawaterbattliwala
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Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#1

Unread post by Sodawaterbattliwala » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:09 pm

Can somebody explain to me what is the precise role of Mazoon and Mukasir in Dawat? I would like the discussion to relate to succession to the position of Dai in absence of a clear Nass to a third person. Is there any historical perspective or tradition?

I was recently talking to a friend about the schism in the community between Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin and Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin. My friend's take was that in the absence of clear Nass, the Mazoon would be next in line for the role of Dai. Is that a correct assessment?

lawgraduate
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#2

Unread post by lawgraduate » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:11 pm

Sodawaterbattliwala wrote:Can somebody explain to me what is the precise role of Mazoon and Mukasir in Dawat? I would like the discussion to relate to succession to the position of Dai in absence of a clear Nass to a third person. Is there any historical perspective or tradition?

I was recently talking to a friend about the schism in the community between Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin and Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin. My friend's take was that in the absence of clear Nass, the Mazoon would be next in line for the role of Dai. Is that a correct assessment?
offcourse its correct assessment, imagine there is a war and the leader die in war who will lead now? the next commander in chief not some havaldar like muffy . and this is the whole reason to keep mazoon and mukasir, death can come any time and in such situation these rutbas are made to save dawat.

alivasan
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#3

Unread post by alivasan » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:18 pm

I don't know but surely there are few discussion threads on this forum which dwelve on this topic.look for topics in archives..personally I feel this are cooked up roles and has no significance as per Islamic principles, so will have to check Fatimid literature for veracity of information feeded to us by clergy.

allbird
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#4

Unread post by allbird » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:59 am

I was very close the Kasre-ali sahebo, and i have seen their attitute. They treat only rich people with respect and consider their equal. If you social status is not up to their expectation then you are a Qidmat guzar and needs to be treated like dirt and local servant. Its hard to stay with these people if you have even little self respect. They are not use to "No" and act like spoil brats. Now every time i see Taha Bhai saheb i cannot forgot about the CA court hearings. banging head for coitus. His brother Husain bhai saheb would be the 54th in line.

alivasan
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#5

Unread post by alivasan » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:36 pm

No wonder Taha is declared as rapist By SKQ daughters..I am not surprised

zinger
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#6

Unread post by zinger » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:53 pm

alivasan wrote:No wonder Taha is declared as rapist By SKQ daughters..I am not surprised
i dont think we should be discussing their personal life

disillusioned
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#7

Unread post by disillusioned » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:04 pm

zinger wrote:
alivasan wrote:No wonder Taha is declared as rapist By SKQ daughters..I am not surprised
i dont think we should be discussing their personal life
I tend to agree. However, don't "they" also insert themselves into our personal lives on a daily basis?

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#8

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:55 pm

zinger wrote:
alivasan wrote:No wonder Taha is declared as rapist By SKQ daughters..I am not surprised
i dont think we should be discussing their personal life
alivasan has only quoted a part of the court case which is in public domain and for everyone to see hence it no more becomes an attempt to infringe upon anyones personal life.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#9

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:37 pm

THIS IS THE ROLE OF THE FRAGILE AND SICK MAZOON, SEE TO IT THAT ABDES SUCCUMB ANYTIME AT HIS FREE WILL !!

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ghulam muhammed
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#10

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:08 pm

LOOKING AT HIS CONDITION, WHAT ROLE COULD ONE EXPECT THE MAZOON TO PLAY IN DAWAT AFFAIRS, HE IS JUST A RUBBER STAMP AND A YES MAN OF MUFFY !!

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qjbj
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#11

Unread post by qjbj » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:48 pm

Poor Mazoon.....even his chair is from Ikea. Couldn't they find a nicer chair for him. Even Ramdev Baba sat on a better chair.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#12

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:31 pm

ROLE OF MAZOON :-

Syedi Mazoon Saheb Presided over Shahadat Maulatena Fatema tuz Zahra AS in Saifee Masjid Mumbai

9th Jumadil Awwal, 1436


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Sodawaterbattliwala
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#13

Unread post by Sodawaterbattliwala » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:20 pm

I have been doing research trying to understand the roles of past Mazoons and Mukasirs. It appears to me that roles have become largely ceremonial. Even during the time of the Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin, the governance and operation of the Dawat was largely in his various sons hands with little direction from the Mazoon and Mukasir. My impression is that for most of Dawat's history the Mazoon and Mukasir were more involved with the Dawat. I would like to understand and study this more. Any help or guidance would be appreciated.

It has definitely been the case throughout the Dawat's history that the Mazoon was choice of the successor to the Dai, in absence of a specific Nuss to a third person.

Adam
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#14

Unread post by Adam » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:21 am

Sodawaterbattliwala wrote:Can somebody explain to me what is the precise role of Mazoon and Mukasir in Dawat? I would like the discussion to relate to succession to the position of Dai in absence of a clear Nass to a third person. Is there any historical perspective or tradition?

I was recently talking to a friend about the schism in the community between Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin and Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin. My friend's take was that in the absence of clear Nass, the Mazoon would be next in line for the role of Dai. Is that a correct assessment?

100% incorrect.
No Imam or Dai will die without clearly performing Nass on their Mansoos.

Nass can be done in private or public, as long as there are witnesses (tawqeef). (Ref Daim al Islam)

There has never been and will never be an instance where a clear Nass hasn't been done.

If there is no clear Nass, then the role of the predecessor comes in to question. For example, if someone states that Rasulullah SAW passed away without clearly appointing his successor, then that is an allegation against the Amanat of Rasulullah SAW.

Your friend's "take" is his opinion. He isn't the Prophet nor Imam nor Dai to be dictating the rules :D
1. There will never be an absence of a clear Nass.
2. The Mazoon is the "Zere Dast" of The Dai. The only person "next in line for the role of Dai" is his Mansoos.


ghulam muhammed
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#15

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:49 pm

99 NOT OUT !!

Syedi Mazoon Saheb D.M on his 99th Salgirah Gave Sharaf to Anjuman-E-Shiate Ali in Evane Husaini on Tuesday, 14th April 2015

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ghulam muhammed
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#16

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Thu May 07, 2015 7:09 pm

Al Syyedul Ajal Wal Humamul Mubajjal Seqatut Dawatut Tayebiyah Mukasero Dawat il Haq Syedi Qasim BS Hakimuddin Saheb (DM) Salgirah Raat

15th Rajab, 1436
Location: MH, India, Mumbai, Mumbai


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ghulam muhammed
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#17

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri May 08, 2015 6:52 pm

ROLE OF MAZOON AND MUKASIR.......... TO PAMPER THEIR MASTER ALA THE EARLIER DAY MAHARAJAS !!

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ghulam muhammed
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#18

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:34 pm

Syedi Mazoon saheb DM visited in Zainee Masjid (Market) Mumbai on 7mi raat Ramadan

6th Ramadan, 1436
Location: India, Mumbai, Zainee Masjid Market


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Bohra spring
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#19

Unread post by Bohra spring » Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:05 pm

l witnessed this Mazoon recently

Remember when long ago SKQ was called mazoom moula, that was wrong, people had to sketch for forgiveness , but abdes call the current mazoom Maula in Rozat Tahera. ..no complaints he likes flair and flaterry. abdes shout maula maula ...hands folded.

He purposely comes out seats, a sofa is arranged quickly with his sons and kadhim on his sides, queue of men and women starts for kadam, women are ushered more then men, people are pushed around , arrogance from the no smile mazoom, he earns like rs 100 per 5 to 10 seconds

he may be old and fragile deserving courtesy but is greedy , mean and opportunistic , any spirituality? none

Moiz_Dhaanu
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#20

Unread post by Moiz_Dhaanu » Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:17 am

Frwd as recvd
Please save the msg n read again over next few days n seek the answers for yourself. Pass on to your near n dear ones and discuss freely.

WHAT IF HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF
..just think over.
Supposition:
What if, a group of a few bhaisahibs n kothar n aamils n jamea ustaads got together in a conspiracy and started to make accusations n spread false rumours against the present Mazoon saheb to bring him down in the eyes of the people? All this happens openly and still the Dai continues to take the oath of taa'at of the Mazoon from mumineen in the misaq, regardless of the serious accusations of the rebel group. In such a case
Q.) Who would you rather believe n keep faith in - the Mazoon or the rebel group? Why?
Q.) If you believe the rebels to be true, what about your oath in misaq? If indeed you think the rebels are wrong, would you still consider them loyal to, and still in the Dai's misaq?

Supposition :
If the Dai feels that the powerful group of his relatives are fierce enemies of the person the Dai wants to appoint as his successor, and there may even be a risk to the life of his Mansoos if his enemies came to know about his appointment, in such a case what is more important for the Dai

Q.) the safety of the next Dai - the true Captain who shall look after the ruhani safina - the mission of dawat, which can survive only if the next Dai remains safe; and decide to keep the Nass secret from others
Q.) please the relatives, who although outwardly help somewhat in running the safina, in reality are planning to hijack the safina by putting in place as the next captain a person of their own choice? Will the Dai then succumb to the pressure and appoint the person of the relatives' choice OR keep the nass secret, no matter what the consequences?
In that case, is the life of the next Dai and along with him the continuation of the Dawat under the rightful Dai more important for the present Dai or the number of people that will remain on the safina of najaat? Which option would the Dai take?

Supposition:
Whom would you look up to for judgement if two or three or even more claimants came forward if the Dai passed away without a public announcement of the nass ?
Q.) Will you trust the Dai's Mazoon's words, who is second highest in rank after the Dai, and obey what he says or follow other lower ranking persons who go against the Mazoon?
Argument: The Mazoon in satar ni dawat has Full raza from the Dai, to conduct the affairs of Dawat and he has the Dai's absolute faith. Only a person of highest integrity, knowledge and ikhlaas gets appointed by the Dai as his Mazoon. This is Not a political position that may be given to someone for appeasement. The Mukasir of Dawat, for whom the oath of allegiance is also taken in misaq, has limited raza. Mukasir e Dawat Syedi Salehbhaisaheb Safiyuddin had said in his waaz about the difference in the levels of the two rutbas that if the Mukasir is compared to zameen, Mazoon is like aasman.

The answers to all the above theoretical questions, if as supposed to be happening in some other period of time, are quite simple. They are heavily in favour of the Mazoon, and the wisdom in keeping the nass secret whatever be the consequence. The more important question is that, has one indeed made a correct judgment about his faith, as per these same answers, the first time such questions arose in our lifetime, during the later period and after the wafat of Aqa Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA?

The Dai al Mutlaq are referred in the Qur'an as those embedded deep in knowledge. They are the fountainhead and forbearers of the ilm of Rasulullah SA and his progeny, the Imams.This is the most important sign of Haq na Dai, who is never seen floundering in his ilm. Dai outshines all other ulemas through the brilliance of his ilm. The proof of deep spiritual knowledge of the Dai has helped our predecessors mumineen to identify and stay with the true Dai in such times of confusion.
As per our belief, acceptance of all our amal like namaz, roza, zakat depend on the valayat of the Haq na Dai.

The point is how many people have the conviction in their faith and are prepared to stand up to the voice of their conscience and belief.
Why are so many unwilling to step out of the comfort zone, even at the cost of najaat.

Bohra spring
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#21

Unread post by Bohra spring » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:33 am

The Dai al Mutlaq are referred in the Qur'an as those embedded deep in knowledge. They are the fountainhead and forbearers of the ilm of Rasulullah SA and his progeny, the Imams.This is the most important sign of Haq na Dai, who is never seen floundering in his ilm. Dai outshines all other ulemas through the brilliance of his ilm.
How was this deduced. .what arrogance that a Diai is better then Ulema. The current system is based on father son hierarchy. ..there are many other better learned Ulema. .

can someone sincerely show where the current Dia is referred to in quran. ..

SBM
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#22

Unread post by SBM » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:40 am

can someone sincerely show where the current Dia is referred to in quran. ..
In the Bayan of many Aaamil who say that our Dai is BOLTA QURAN :)

Bohra spring
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#23

Unread post by Bohra spring » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:10 am

SBM wrote:
can someone sincerely show where the current Dia is referred to in quran. ..
In the Bayan of many Aaamil who say that our Dai is BOLTA QURAN :)

when I read the Quran it has foretold that such people who play and associate un intended description to justify their false leadership. ..they will be punished. ..

does SKQ and sms know they are deliberately twisting the Quran meaning and they will be held to account. .they have no fear ? if I a layman is worried what about those who understand in detail?

are we not seeing the punishment already where our belief system is in collapse. ..and deterioration. ..we are no longer a growing Dawoodi faith..public reputation is in taters too.

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#24

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:07 pm

Bohra spring wrote:does SKQ and sms know they are deliberately twisting the Quran meaning and they will be held to account. .they have no fear ? if I a layman is worried what about those who understand in detail?
"Indeed, the criminals will be in the punishment of Hell, abiding eternally. It will not be allowed to subside for them, and they, therein, are in despair. And We did not wrong them, but it was they who were the wrongdoers. And they will call, 'O Maalik let your Lord put an end to us!” He will say, “Indeed, you will remain.'" [Quran 43: 74-77]

ghulam muhammed
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#25

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:15 pm

The Qur'an also states that even people who simply followed the (wrong) customs of their ancestors, i.e. were misled by them into transgressing God's law, cannot pass the burden and punishment to those who led them astray, but will have to bear their punishment in full:


So be not thou in doubt concerning that which these (folk) worship. They worship only as their fathers worshipped aforetime. Lo! we shall pay them their whole due unabated. S. 11:109

I.e. no deduction from the punishment for the reason of having been misled.

And those who disbelieve say to those who believe: Follow our path and we will bear your wrongs. And never shall they be the bearers of any of their wrongs; most surely they are liars. And most certainly they shall carry their own burdens, AND OTHER BURDENS WITH THEIR OWN BURDENS, and most certainly they shall be questioned on the resurrection day as to what they forged. S. 29:12-13 Shakir

Bohra spring
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Re: Role of Mazoon and Mukasir

#26

Unread post by Bohra spring » Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:25 pm

The point is Qur'an does not make direCT reference to Diai Mutlaq as Bohras know.....they may have deep knowledge but not absolute knowledge

they can be leaders but not masters or Lords or masoom. ..they are mortals