Question for Adam and Phoenix-Topiwala

[SBM]

This is a serious question and I do hope to engage in sensible discussion to Adam-Phoenix-Topiwala and every die hard follower of SMS
Please explain to me and many on this forum the following:
What is the purpose of asking growing generation of making Roti?
Did Murtaza Dahodwala has made any Roti for the Khoshi of his leader?
Did Ghulam Noon of UK made any Rotis for the Moula?
How many Roti anyone of you have made so far?
When mass marketing Roti making company like Kavan and others are providing cheaper version what is the logic of wasting talents of new generation?
While many Hindu and Muslim Organization spends thousand or lakhs of rupees preparing students for IAS-IPS-IFS entrance exam ( Zakat foundation of India) why the talents of Bohra generation is wasted on Roti making
Would Murtaza Dahodwala would be giving him Rolce Royce if he would have learn how to make Roti
How do you compare the emphasis on Roti making by SMS to the emphasis by other communities on educating their children by providing guidance for higher education?

[Adam]

These are my own opinions only.

If you think that Syedna's farmaan is for everyone to stop everything they are doing and make rotis for a living. Then you are mistaken. NO ONE says that. Everyone should go about doing exactly what they were doing and pursue their own talents, business and services.
That being said, your entire opinion of wasted talents, and mass producing roti companies is irrelevant at this stage. This isn't a business venture.

Bohra generation wasted on roti making

Again is a incorrect statement. If children are being taught it in their Dawat funded schools, it must be taking less than 0.5% of their time. Don't schools have baking classes? Don't kids have fun when they cook? Wouldn't it be a reason for a child to get happy when they can take home a roti they baked for their parents to each for lunch?
Why so serious?
Again. It isn't a major part of the syllabus. Everything else goes on as usual. So don't worry too much about it.

Yes. I have tried to make rotis as per Moulas farman. I learned it at a workshop and try at home. Hope to improve. I'm not keeping count. Sorry
About Sh Murtaza making rotis. You will have to ask him. He may have done it because of his love for his Moula TUS.

How do you compare the emphasis on Roti making by SMS to the emphasis by other communities on educating their children by providing guidance for higher education?

Are you really deaf to what is really happening? Children are still being educated, and given guidance for higher education. NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
Your hatred for Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA has been transferred to Syedna Mufaddal TUS. No matter what he says or does. Whether you accept it or not, you will always find a reason to oppose the True Dai.

Syedna has mentioned it many times in the Waaz. The azamat of Roti s, can be traced to Moulana Hashims time where he used to mix (sareed; roti), cook and feed the people. Moulatena Fatema's used to do this, and these were her last deeds. Duat and their families have done the same. Syedna Moiyed al Shirazi has discussed this "art" صنعة in his Ta'weel books.
You should try to seek the azamat of this deed. But, whether you understand the importance of the deed at this stage is secondary.
We follow, Panjatan, Aimmat and Duat and their amal.
There is no one more "advanced" and "farsighted" than the Hudaat Kiram AS. If they have done it. So shall we.

[lawgraduate]

Adam you are again uttering bull crap, every muslim knows importance of food and roti and if I am not wrong our woman are making roti from years and years , my mother is making roti for us for last 60 years and Alhumdolillah she is good in cooking and she dont need any course on roti making. ( I heard they have shown video clips on how to make roti on maulatuna fatema(s) shadat night) seriously?

what mufaddal is trying to do is two things.

trying to portrait himself like a caring father who is feeding their child, but this father dont feed for free he charges in pounds for the roti he makes (quite hilarious actually)

secondly he is trying to deviate people attention from serious issues like accounting and other religious obligations and importance.

there are many important things which children can learn in childhood instead of wasting time on some thing which is quite obvious.

children should be taught ARABIC so they can read Quran with meaning.

but obviously mufaddal wont do this, because if he do children will know what kind of maloon he is and how opposite he is acting against the quranic teachings.

[dawedaar]

This roti making tamasha is all a farce. I have seen in all affluent households of diehard abdes, aamils etc, no amte women in those families make roti themselves as roti making is a laborious and tedious task. They either have servants (in India) or get them on orders from some bohri women who sell them (abroad, especially US etc)...

[Adam]

This is exactly why I said it was my opinion.
Secondly, it's nothing to be worried about. Chill.

People will still learn the Quran, hifz it (Moula repeats this in every Waaz). Why don't you focus on those words instead instead of cherry picking?. They will continue to obtain higher education, become doctors and professionals and busines people.
Nothing has changed, only progress.

Peace.

[lawgraduate]

This is exactly why I said it was my opinion.
Secondly, it's nothing to be worried about. Chill.

People will still learn the Quran, hifz it (Moula repeats this in every Waaz). Why don't you focus on those words instead instead of cherry picking?. They will continue to obtain higher education, become doctors and professionals and busines people.
Nothing has changed, only progress.

Peace.

hifz it?

do you even realize what you talk? hifz has no point if our kids are unaware of what is written in the book, how many madressa teaches Quran with translation?

mufaddal operates mafia house called jamiya, where is does no service to Islam but just brainwashes abdes to become his slaves.

maad uz zahra is just a symbolic institution how many real scholars have come out of it from last 10 years?

Mufaddal is cleverly not teaching bohra translation of quran because he knows he will be exposed if he does so.

[SBM]

Adam
Thank you for your response.
You still skirted my most important question, that being of emphasis on preparing students for IAS_IPS-IFS entrance exams.
How many students from Bohra Community have been provided with financial assistance to prepare for these prestigious positions? Please provide even one link to any farmaan or waiz where SMS or even SMB has asked his followers to compete for Civil Service Exams. Please provide if any Bohra students has received any assistance for these kinds of exams.
Does Jamiya and Bohra Madrassa prepare students for these kinds of exams.
While other communities are spending time, money and their resources for their younger generation to go for IIT-IIM our kids are being trained to carry-deliever Dabba and prepare Roti.
I know Zinger has liked both of your reply so I am sure Zinger is making lot of Rotis for the khushi of Moula and carrying out his farman

[Adam]

hifz it?
do you even realize what you talk? hifz has no point if our kids are unaware of what is written in the book, how many madressa teaches Quran with translation?
mufaddal operates mafia house called jamiya, where is does no service to Islam but just brainwashes abdes to become his slaves.
maad uz zahra is just a symbolic institution how many real scholars have come out of it from last 10 years?
Mufaddal is cleverly not teaching bohra translation of quran because he knows he will be exposed if he does so.[/color]

Well, Mahad al Zahra has produced many Hafeez well versed in Quranic Arabic & understanding.
The Jamea syllabus encompasses Fatemi Tafseer and Taweel of Quranic ayats.

Scholars, or no scholars. At least it's bette than being an Al Qaeda & ISIS supporting Wahabi like yourself, right?

@SBM
I've already been very clear.
51st, 52nd and 53rd Dai have all encouraged Mumineen and their children to pursue all studies and fields - worldwide.

If you stop the hatred for Panjan, Aimmat and Duat, for once, you'd see something beyond hatred.

[disillusioned]

Well, Mahad al Zahra has produced many Hafeez well versed in Quranic Arabic & understanding.
The Jamea syllabus encompasses Fatemi Tafseer and Taweel of Quranic ayats.

Scholars, or no scholars. At least it's bette than being an Al Qaeda & ISIS supporting Wahabi like yourself, right?

Heh.. That's a hilariously low bar to set. "We are training our kids to be better than some random allegedly Al Qaeda/ISIS supporting Wahhabi dude on some internet forum."

[SBM]

51st, 52nd and 53rd Dai have all encouraged Mumineen and their children to pursue all studies and fields - worldwide.

Please provide some links
As far as I know when some one went to SMB and asked Raza for pursuing higher education in Engineering, he told him to instead pursue Commerce as SMB had no idea between Engineering and Commerce and thought getting a degree in commerce was better then pursuing advance degree in Science
SMS has asked women to quit education and stay home make Rida, Roti and Topi,
Please show one reference where SMB or SMS has asked his flocks to pursue higher studies at IIT or IIM or for Civil Services. Stop using generic terms.

[Crater Lake]

51st, 52nd and 53rd Dai have all encouraged Mumineen and their children to pursue all studies and fields - worldwide.

Please provide some links
As far as I know when some one went to SMB and asked Raza for pursuing higher education in Engineering, he told him to instead pursue Commerce as SMB had no idea between Engineering and Commerce and thought getting a degree in commerce was better then pursuing advance degree in Science
SMS has asked women to quit education and stay home make Rida, Roti and Topi,
Please show one reference where SMB or SMS has asked his flocks to pursue higher studies at IIT or IIM or for Civil Services. Stop using generic terms.

SBM - I have myself received raza and doa from SMB RA for the pursuance of a professional degree abroad and yes it did involve working with men (horrors!)

I am aware of 3 cases in which women have gone to seek raza for higher education in professional fields similar to mine from Mufaddal Saifuddin and they have been categorically denied this raza on grounds that their profession would involve working with men. The views of SMB RA and MS on this topic are very clearly at cross purposes. Please do not put them in the same bucket. MS would rather that women crush all their aspirations to excel in any field other than roti, rida or topi making.

[ghulam muhammed]

There is no one more "advanced" and "farsighted" than the Hudaat Kiram AS. If they have done it. So shall we.

There are many more things which the Hudaat kiram AS did like not living an ayyash lifestyle, not forcing people to pay wajebat, not taking money for burial of dead, giving sanctity to Masjids without taking payment of crores of rupees from their followers, not selling ruku chithi in qabr for money, taking misaq in the Imam's name and not their name, taking centre stage in battles instead of running in police jeeps and leaving the followers in lurch, not selling titles of Sheikhs, Mullas, NKD, MKD for lakhs of rupees, phew the list is quite long......then why the stress on ROTI alone ??

[zinger]

Adam
Thank you for your response.
You still skirted my most important question, that being of emphasis on preparing students for IAS_IPS-IFS entrance exams.
How many students from Bohra Community have been provided with financial assistance to prepare for these prestigious positions? Please provide even one link to any farmaan or waiz where SMS or even SMB has asked his followers to compete for Civil Service Exams. Please provide if any Bohra students has received any assistance for these kinds of exams.
Does Jamiya and Bohra Madrassa prepare students for these kinds of exams.
While other communities are spending time, money and their resources for their younger generation to go for IIT-IIM our kids are being trained to carry-deliever Dabba and prepare Roti.
I know Zinger has liked both of your reply so I am sure Zinger is making lot of Rotis for the khushi of Moula and carrying out his farman

Boy, you guys seem to be in a mood for cheap pot shots today. first birader and then you. only difference is that in your case, im not surprised.

anyways, to clear the matter, again, i liked adams post because it is what i am saying too. just by posting pic after pic after pic after pic after pic of kids delivering dabbas and men making rotis, it does not mean that that is all they do. everyone has a life other than that and they spend maybe a few minutes in doing community service, which in my opinion is a good thing (and im referring to kids delivering dabbas, not men making rotis)

[abde53]

.

just by posting pic after pic after pic after pic after pic of kids delivering dabbas and men making rotis, it does not mean that that is all they do

Zinger Bhai
A picture is worth thousand words. Do you have any pictures which shows that our Mumineen are doing any social work, Sawach Bharat is not social work it is to please Naredra Bhai Modi with whom Moula is buddy buddy.
You complain about too many pictures posted by Ghulam Bhai, if he did not post those pictures then you will be first one asking for proof too.

[ghulam muhammed]

If you stop the hatred for Panjan, Aimmat and Duat, for once, you'd see something beyond hatred.

A typical response from a brain dead abde......... When they fail to defend their masters they resort to blatant lies by labelling the critics as Wahabis and now there is a new breed of abdes like Adam who call them "Panjatan haters" as according to the twisted and distorted history presented to them, the noble and pious Panjatan also lived an extravagant lifestyle at the cost of their followers (Nauzubillah). Muffy and his henchmen are similar to RSS and saffron brigade who too distort history by changing the textbook syllabus in order to promote their nefarious agendas and justify their own evils !

[seeker110]

GM bhai,
What can you expect from Chore, illiterate, haramkhore, stupid and kamchore kids of dai. A time will come when their own children will pay them back for their sins. Similar to the old man, when he was paraded for money, by his children.

[zinger]

.

just by posting pic after pic after pic after pic after pic of kids delivering dabbas and men making rotis, it does not mean that that is all they do

Zinger Bhai
A picture is worth thousand words. Do you have any pictures which shows that our Mumineen are doing any social work, Sawach Bharat is not social work it is to please Naredra Bhai Modi with whom Moula is buddy buddy.
You complain about too many pictures posted by Ghulam Bhai, if he did not post those pictures then you will be first one asking for proof too.

Duuuhhhh!!!

I only ask people for proof when someone posts something absurd!

Remember the gutter cleaning work?
Remember save the sparrows?
Remember the solar lighting work by Raheba Solar???

[SBM]

Remember the gutter cleaning work?
And after the Photo Op and PR is done what is the follow UP? How many gutters are cleaned in NON BOHRA COMMUNITY?
Remember save the sparrows?
How many sparrows are now saved? Any follow Up?
Remember the solar lighting work by Raheba Solar???
And who is minting money in the name of Rabeha Solar. If you only knew the Aamil who runs the show does not even talk to his only son. What a hypocrite Rabeha Solar System is? Who is paying for it? Is Kothari Goons paying for it

Again Zinger get your foot out of two boats and sail only in one boat otherwise boats going in two different direction can cause harm to you know waht

[zinger]

Remember the gutter cleaning work?
And after the Photo Op and PR is done what is the follow UP? How many gutters are cleaned in NON BOHRA COMMUNITY? WILL YOU CLEAN YOUR OWN HOUSE OR YOUR NEIGHBOURS HOUSE???
Remember save the sparrows?
How many sparrows are now saved? Any follow Up? 92,457 BIRDS! HAPPY? I COUNTED THEM MYSELF OK!
Remember the solar lighting work by Raheba Solar???
And who is minting money in the name of Rabeha Solar. WHO CARES, AS LONG AS GOOD WORK IS BEING DONE! If you only knew the Aamil who runs the show does not even talk to his only son. WHY SHOULD I CARE WHAT THERE FAMILY PROBLEMS ARE? What a hypocrite Rabeha Solar System is? Who is paying for it? Is Kothari Goons paying for it GOOD WORK HAS BEEN DONE, THAT IS THE MORE IMPORTANT PART

Again Zinger get your foot out of two boats and sail only in one boat otherwise boats going in two different direction can cause harm to you know waht LIKE THE CHEAP SHOT THAT YOU TOOK IN MY NAME WHEN I LIKED JAMES'S POST, LET ME DO THE SAME FOR YOU. SINCE THE BEHRUPIYA HAS LIKED YOUR POST, I GIVE YOU THE SAME ADVICE AS I DID TO HIM. DONT WORRY ABOUT ME, I CAN TAKE CARE OF MYSELF. I KNOW WHICH BOAT TO STAND IN. I GIVE THE RECOGNITION WHEN GOOD WORK IS DONE, I GIVE SCOLDINGS WHEN BAD WORK IS DONE

[SBM]

WILL YOU CLEAN YOUR OWN HOUSE OR YOUR NEIGHBOURS HOUSE?

Well Zinger
I am a member with Habitat for Humanity as well with many Muslim Social Organizations who do go and provide support to building houses and providing food as well as medical care to Non Muslims and yes our Shariat does tell us to take care of our neighbors too.
Remember Prophet Mohammed whose neighbor used to throw garbage on him everyday and one day she did not and Prophet went to see her and found her sick and helped her, she converted to Islam.
BTW our own houses of Dawat have been so much corrupted by the Dirt used by the occupants of Saify Mahal that it is better to demolish then try to clean :cry:

[zinger]

WILL YOU CLEAN YOUR OWN HOUSE OR YOUR NEIGHBOURS HOUSE?

Well Zinger
I am a member with Habitat for Humanity as well with many Muslim Social Organizations who do go and provide support to building houses and providing food as well as medical care to Non Muslims and yes our Shariat does tell us to take care of our neighbors too.
Remember Prophet Mohammed whose neighbor used to throw garbage on him everyday and one day she did not and Prophet went to see her and found her sick and helped her, she converted to Islam.
:

Am putting a like against only this part of your post because the new format does not allow it for some reason

[fustrate_Bohra]

Adam, Phoenix, Multi millionaire GHULAM Noor5253 and like minded, you all claim to be die hard ABDE of MS, what made you'll to take this extreme step of doing nafarmani of MS and registered yourself on this so called munafiqin site?

OR

Are you all planted by kothar to defend/justify MS evil doings which this site has and continued to expose along with evidences.

[SBM]

Here Adam aka Taha Hakimuddin would not reply to many of my questions posted here is another for Br GM
Can you please shed some light on the owners of Mubarak Manzil in Surat.

[Adam]

@SBM
Not sure what you're referring to
I told yo to PM me for anything specific.
I even answered your questions via PM. But no reply.

[SBM]

Adam aka Taha
No you did not reply to my questions via PM but I have already posted many questions on different thread and now I really do not have time to search for it
I do not do PM for general questions

[kimanumanu]

Given Adam is not denying that he is Taha, is that confirmed now?

[SBM]

^
My information came from some one inside Saify Mahal and No Taizoon does not reside in Saify Mahal
BTW Adam aka Taha can you shed some light about Badri Manzil in Surat?

[ghulam muhammed]

Here Adam aka Taha Hakimuddin would not reply to many of my questions posted here is another for Br GM
Can you please shed some light on the owners of Mubarak Manzil in Surat.

Mubarak Manzil is situated near Jamea at Zampa Bazar wherein 2 floors belong to KQ and the other 2 belong to the Mufaddali gang.

[fustrate_Bohra]

Alhaq kya hua tune abhi tak apne aka ki 5 khoobiyan nahin batai. Yaar tu jis tarah uchal raha tha mujhe laga kuch seconds main 5 ya 10 khoobiyan bata dega lekin yaar tu bhi Adam or baki ki tarah chup ho gaya.