Discussion: Saifee Mahal Thread - Inside Stories

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Ozdundee
Posts: 878
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Saifee Mahal - The Inside Stories

#331

Unread post by Ozdundee » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:10 pm

qjbj wrote:I noticed on Wikipedia they list SKQ was born 1940 and SMS was born 1946. So when STS died SKQ was 25 and SMS was 20. I could couldn't find the date QJ was born. I assume he was the eldest child of SMB so he would have to be over 20. The point I'm trying to make is when STS died all the eligible future Dai's whom SMB and even STS (before he died) could make Mazum would all be in the same age range. That is SMB must have compared SMS, QJ, and SKQ and seen who had the best qualities to be Mazum. SMS was not very small, he was already 20yrs old so SMB could have made him Mazum but he did not. So this shows SMB did not think any of his kids were future dai candidates.
it is naive to think the SMB was so intelligent to have single handedly decide that SKQ is a mazoom and inherit the Diai 50 years ago. ST'S wishes were in play .

there is no rule that mazoon must be the diai, however smb was weak and over confident of his mortality and could not publicly sort the decision as StS had done for him. smb may have wanted one of his sons to take over , how he thought sms was the most capable is a puzzle ? Qj was by far more strategic and intelligent, is it he was not interested to be in front ? what about the son who died ? is it because of loss of his wife he could not reach a decision ?

itis the sons of smb who must have realised the mess smb was to leave behind if no formal mansoos was created when he received his stroke. SKQ sons must have seen this as manipulation and taken advantage of the situation . the probability is no formal handing over was conducted and by default SKQ can claim a automatic assession how ever why he is playing that move about declarations made 50 years ago is another sign of a risky move,

it is possible they sms and SKQ know Abde psychology better than I , that abdes don't think logically and would rely on any clue that it was smb raza, or instruction and if any claimant can prove that , he will win hearts and minds.

the challenge is in a sense of clear public declaration of succession how to create the most credible hint ! so far sms is leading it through political campaign and winning popularity. the problem is his backwardness is also leaking popularity and SKQ is picking the fallout while others are remaining agnostic

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 568
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Saifee Mahal - The Inside Stories

#332

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:33 pm

Ozdundee wrote:
qjbj wrote:I noticed on Wikipedia they list SKQ was born 1940 and SMS was born 1946. So when STS died SKQ was 25 and SMS was 20. I could couldn't find the date QJ was born. I assume he was the eldest child of SMB so he would have to be over 20. The point I'm trying to make is when STS died all the eligible future Dai's whom SMB and even STS (before he died) could make Mazum would all be in the same age range. That is SMB must have compared SMS, QJ, and SKQ and seen who had the best qualities to be Mazum. SMS was not very small, he was already 20yrs old so SMB could have made him Mazum but he did not. So this shows SMB did not think any of his kids were future dai candidates.
it is naive to think the SMB was so intelligent to have single handedly decide that SKQ is a mazoom and inherit the Diai 50 years ago. ST'S wishes were in play .

there is no rule that mazoon must be the diai, however smb was weak and over confident of his mortality and could not publicly sort the decision as StS had done for him. smb may have wanted one of his sons to take over , how he thought sms was the most capable is a puzzle ? Qj was by far more strategic and intelligent, is it he was not interested to be in front ? what about the son who died ? is it because of loss of his wife he could not reach a decision ?

itis the sons of smb who must have realised the mess smb was to leave behind if no formal mansoos was created when he received his stroke. SKQ sons must have seen this as manipulation and taken advantage of the situation . the probability is no formal handing over was conducted and by default SKQ can claim a automatic assession how ever why he is playing that move about declarations made 50 years ago is another sign of a risky move,

it is possible they sms and SKQ know Abde psychology better than I , that abdes don't think logically and would rely on any clue that it was smb raza, or instruction and if any claimant can prove that , he will win hearts and minds.

the challenge is in a sense of clear public declaration of succession how to create the most credible hint ! so far sms is leading it through political campaign and winning popularity. the problem is his backwardness is also leaking popularity and SKQ is picking the fallout while others are remaining agnostic
You are over thinking this Oz. SKQ is not "strategizing" or "risk managing." Based on what I have learned about him since Moula's (RA) wafat, it is evident to me that he is acting purely out of a conviction in his duty to reveal the nass. He appears to be a smart man and the the risks of his actions were more than clear to him I am sure. No one takes those kinds of risks unless they are being driven by something far more powerful than what you and I see in this world. I have arrived at this conviction over the last year and I really respect that about him. These guys really believe in what they preach. Whether you and I can muster this level of conviction, is another story but I have no doubt in the conviction of SKQ family. That is why he will always be my dai whether or not this world allows me to reveal it.

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Saifee Mahal - The Inside Stories

#333

Unread post by Adam » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:17 am

@UnhappyBohra
They may believe in what they preach, but that doesn't make it Haq.
Instead, they should have believed in what Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA said, and followed his instructions.

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 568
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Saifee Mahal - The Inside Stories

#334

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:23 am

Adam wrote:@UnhappyBohra
They may believe in what they preach, but that doesn't make it Haq.
Instead, they should have believed in what Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA said, and followed his instructions.
My point was that SKQ is doing precisely what Burhanuddin Moula RA instructed him to do. Reveal the Nass at an appropriate time. He has taken tremendous risks in order to do that because he is driven by a sense of duty to reveal the nass. The risks he took are costing him a lot but he perseveres.
On the flip side you have Mufaddal Saifuddin who got handed everything on a plate and all he is doing is milking it for his worldly benefit and making a mockery of Burhanuddin Moula's deen. If one refuses to be blinded by the pomp surrounding him, it is actually very easy to see where Haq is.

Sabar
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 4:53 pm

Re: Saifee Mahal - The Inside Stories

#335

Unread post by Sabar » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:41 pm

Adam wrote:@UnhappyBohra
They may believe in what they preach, but that doesn't make it Haq.
Instead, they should have believed in what Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA said, and followed his instructions.
Adam do you believe in what Burhanndin Aqa RA said?

Do you believe Qutbuddin moula is radiant and noble, one with excellence, one with sound judgment, one who is sincere in his obedience for Dai, one who was loved by Taher Saifuddin RA very much, the one who must continue to serve Dawat with sincerity, just as Taher Saifuddin taught, until the end of his life! Surely you must believe all this because Burhannudin aqa RA said all this LOUD and CLEAR with ilham of imam in front of thousands in Saifee masjid on one of the most important days of his leadership. But your Dai MS contradicts all of this, saying he had bad intentions from the beginning since 50 years ago, MS even mentioned during Ashara was that Qutbuddin moula had no love for Taher Saifuddin RA. So who do you believe?

Also on the topic of believing in what burhannudin aqa said, did he ever instruct you to give an oath to monsoos? we never once heard him mention monsoos in misaaq, nor did we ever hear him instruct anybody to add it, then who’s instructions are you believing in?

On another thread you chose to twist things just like how your leader is doing to justify acts whether it roti, education, zahir batin, imam nass! nothing is left sacred.
Adam wrote:The Dai and Mansoos are considered one.
Even if your twisted logic is true, then why add it at all..... (the only logical reason would be to add validity to a false claim)

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Saifee Mahal - The Inside Stories

#336

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:43 pm

I agree with Unhappy Bohra. SKQ has put his (ans his families') well being, and everything at stake by taking this position. The easiest course for him would have been to accept SMS as dai, and he would have been put back on the pedestal - and if people on this forum are to be believed, he could have made some deal for himself. Now his children and their children will be "cursed" until eternity by the SMS side Bohras - not that it matters one bit in front of Allah, but in this world they will be cursed by SMS side Bohras.

I personally give SKQ saheb a lot of credit and admire his guts (and he has my silent prayers) - and given the direction of the community under SMS, I wish and pray for his success.

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Saifee Mahal - The Inside Stories

#337

Unread post by Adam » Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:31 am

@UnhappyBohra
My point was that SKQ is doing precisely what Burhanuddin Moula RA instructed him to do. Reveal the Nass at an appropriate time.


What was this appropriate time to reveal this secret Nass?
After wafaat?
If yes, how come his children already knew about this "Nass" well in advance. Shouldn't he have kept it amanat and secret?

Answer this simple question. Then we'll move on

@Sabar
Adam do you believe in what Burhanndin Aqa RA said?

I do believe what he's said.
Haven't you heard similar (if not more) by Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA for other Hudood and Shehzadas? Namely Shehzada Yusuf Bs, and Syedna Mufaddal TUS himself?
Why don't you bring that up.

Syedna has said many things for the Hudood, but what he hasn't said for KQ is anything in regards to Nass. Which he has for Syedna Mufaddal TUS.
Why do you choose to ignore that.

NASS & Tawqeef is to be loud and clear without any ambiguity.
If, according to your logic, we were to GUESS what Syedna RA meant, and jump to the conclusion as to who the Mansoos is, then there have been many things said about 1 2 3, and other enemies of Dawat. Should we start interpretting it in a way that we choose?

Of course not. We only listen and follow what Syedna TUS said, did and wrote.
He didn't say any such thing for KQ. But he most certainly did for Syedna Mufaddal TUS.
------
That being said, if KQ had recieved a private Nass, the LEAST that Syedna RA could have done was prepare a document or witnesses, or a recording, or a video that was to be shown at a later stage - or given to KQ.

A private Nass without any witnesses is NOT ACCEPTABLE UNDER ANY DAWAT DOCTRINE.

Also on the topic of believing in what burhannudin aqa said, did he ever instruct you to give an oath to monsoos? we never once heard him mention monsoos in misaaq, nor did we ever hear him instruct anybody to add it, then who’s instructions are you believing in?


1. Do you accept that Syedna Mufaddal is the Mansoos? If yes, why all the confusion. You listen to what he says.
2. Syedna RA He instructed us to name his Mansoos. It was conveyed thourgh his Vazarat Misaal.
3. If The Dai has already appointed his Mansoos in public, we will most certainly listen to his Mansoos as well. Knowing that it is with the Dai's raza that he does or speaks. KQ wasn't even around at the time.
4. Yes, the Dai and Mansoos are considered one. They are the 1st Rutba. Dawat kitaabs confirm this. 2nd and 3rd are the Mazoon and Mukasir.

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 568
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Saifee Mahal - The Inside Stories

#338

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:45 am

Adam wrote:@UnhappyBohra
My point was that SKQ is doing precisely what Burhanuddin Moula RA instructed him to do. Reveal the Nass at an appropriate time.


What was this appropriate time to reveal this secret Nass?
After wafaat?
If yes, how come his children already knew about this "Nass" well in advance. Shouldn't he have kept it amanat and secret?

Answer this simple question. Then we'll move on


Seriously??!! Are you serious in asking this question? Burhanuddin Aqa left it up to Qutbuddin Aqa to reveal the nass at an appropriate time. If Qutbuddin Aqa felt it necessary to reveal it early to his children in order to get the logistics in place to reveal it to the world, that was totally his prerogative. He was totally within his right to reveal on a need to know basis.

noor5253
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:36 am

Re: Saifee Mahal - The Inside Stories

#339

Unread post by noor5253 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:54 pm

UnhappyBohra wrote:
Adam wrote:@UnhappyBohra


What was this appropriate time to reveal this secret Nass?
After wafaat?
If yes, how come his children already knew about this "Nass" well in advance. Shouldn't he have kept it amanat and secret?

Answer this simple question. Then we'll move on


Seriously??!! Are you serious in asking this question? Burhanuddin Aqa left it up to Qutbuddin Aqa to reveal the nass at an appropriate time. If Qutbuddin Aqa felt it necessary to reveal it early to his children in order to get the logistics in place to reveal it to the world, that was totally his prerogative. He was totally within his right to reveal on a need to know basis.

hahaha
thats a new one..
finally they figured out how to reply to this question..
funny.. really..

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 568
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Saifee Mahal - The Inside Stories

#340

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:23 pm

noor5253 wrote:
UnhappyBohra wrote: Seriously??!! Are you serious in asking this question? Burhanuddin Aqa left it up to Qutbuddin Aqa to reveal the nass at an appropriate time. If Qutbuddin Aqa felt it necessary to reveal it early to his children in order to get the logistics in place to reveal it to the world, that was totally his prerogative. He was totally within his right to reveal on a need to know basis.

hahaha
thats a new one..
finally they figured out how to reply to this question..
funny.. really..
It was too stupid a question to reply to. But you guys don't take a hint! As they say, aql mand ne ishara kafi che but then you guys don't fall in that category. Especially you, Noorie. Seriously man, what gene pool did you drip from?

Admin
Posts: 662
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Discussion: Saifee Mahal Thread - Inside Stories

#341

Unread post by Admin » Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:43 pm

This thread is devoted to commentary and discussion from the original "Saifee Mahal Thread". In the interest of preserving the clarity and ease of reading of the Original posts posted by those with Inside Information from Saifee Mahal, we are moving all discussion resulting from it - some relevant, some remotely relevant and some irrelevant - to this this new section. That thread is locked and is only available for reading and reference. All discussion relating to it must be done here in this new thread.
Thank you, ADMIN