Moharrum and Ashara 2015

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Ruqaiyya
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:32 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#691

Unread post by Ruqaiyya » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:27 pm

Visiting a forum is no way near to breaking the terms of Misaaq or beyat.

Reading different mentalities and knowing about people cannot break any oath or misaaq.

Misaaq is something which is clearly connected to your aqeeda and good deeds,

If getting connected to the forum is changing your aqeeda or good deeds then one must sign off from here undoubtedly!

But with me its not like that, I had a lot of ISLAMIC debates in my life so far, it is nothing new for me to break my aqeeda or oath.

And one more thing, badri lacewala has all the access of our talks which we have done about him, though he is educated or not, someone else is doing this work for him, and that person came through asghar vaswarawala bhai or I don't know what is the name who posts the video over the you tube.

So let me do my work and do not worry about my Misaaq, as I am answerable to IMAM UZ ZAMAN a.s whether I was on right path to go to him or not.
I am in the mood to send Badri to renew his misaaq lol.

Wassalam

dawedaar
Posts: 844
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:40 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#692

Unread post by dawedaar » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:35 pm

Wow, all this years, I was in the belief that we are answerable to only Allah subanahu :shock:
Ruqaiyya wrote: So let me do my work and do not worry about my Misaaq, as I am answerable to IMAM UZ ZAMAN a.s whether I was on right path to go to him or not.
I am in the mood to send Badri to renew his misaaq lol.

Wassalam

saminaben
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#693

Unread post by saminaben » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:49 pm

Ruqaiyya

Please realize people have different views and thresholds for aqeeda, beyat, misaq breaking, misaq keeping. What is your threshold? What is your definition of each of these?

Now some people will get insistent that their definition is the correct one - as do the MS Abdes or the KQ abdes or the Reformist/progressive abdes, and abdes somewhere in between all these spectrums.
It is ridiculous when so many regular contributors from KQ and reformist side blast MS arguments by resorting to misaq breaking as a way to end the argument and chase them out of forum. It's a cowardly act, much like many cowardly acts in MS duniya. More like a bully really.

Why there are not that many women contributors to this forum? At least the names don't suggest readily - I guess thinkforyourself has indicated she is a woman, although I really doubt Nafisa is a man. So don't let anyone chase you out of this forum because I for one like to see and read woman posters. Not that I am prejudiced or anything against the male gender, but we are far more than 50% of the population, with far less of a say and power to influence.

abde53
Posts: 296
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 5:01 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#694

Unread post by abde53 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:02 pm

Bhai SBM and Ben Saminaben
Shukran for your posts welcoming people like me. If visiting this forum breaks my misaq then it is between me and my DAI, This forum has given us some if not full freedom.
Donot make us feel guilty because we do not fully follow Moula's farman.
How many of you who ask us about our Misaq have broken speeding laws and other laws of the country.
Allaha has asked us to pray 5 times a day, how many of the you who keep on repeating about our Misaq follow Allah command on praying 5 times a day too. We break our Misaq every day with Allaha and never feel guilty about it.
So I agree with Bhai SBM enough is enough

dawedaar
Posts: 844
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:40 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#695

Unread post by dawedaar » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:09 pm

@abde53, people like you are more than welcome to come here, read and write on this forum. Infact, this forum needs more die hard bohra followers to come here and read and discuss. There is no point in booing them away. That would be loss for this forum/cause!
abde53 wrote:Bhai SBM and Ben Saminaben
Shukran for your posts welcoming people like me. If visiting this forum breaks my misaq then it is between me and my DAI, This forum has given us some if not full freedom.
Donot make us feel guilty because we do not fully follow Moula's farman.
How many of you who ask us about our Misaq have broken speeding laws and other laws of the country.
Allaha has asked us to pray 5 times a day, how many of the you who keep on repeating about our Misaq follow Allah command on praying 5 times a day too. We break our Misaq every day with Allaha and never feel guilty about it.
So I agree with Bhai SBM enough is enough

Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#696

Unread post by Al-Noor » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:10 pm

If you guys can't understand me and humanbeing are being sarcastic then please reconsider your sense of humor and sarcasm. message of my post is far beyond then you can understand. sorry

Admin
Posts: 662
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#697

Unread post by Admin » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:12 pm

Saminaben, SBM, abde53

We agree wholeheartedly. Everybody is welcome to post on this From. Discouraging people from coming here by throwing "misaq" at them is a weak and devious argument. Please stop doing that. And yes, we would like to see and encourage contributions from more women.

saminaben
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#698

Unread post by saminaben » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:15 pm

Al Noor Apology accepted. Nothing personal.

Threshold for sarcasm is different for me and some other people. Sarcasm is effective when used sparingly.

Ruqaiyya
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:32 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#699

Unread post by Ruqaiyya » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:33 pm

dawedaar wrote:Wow, all this years, I was in the belief that we are answerable to only Allah subanahu :shock:
Ruqaiyya wrote: So let me do my work and do not worry about my Misaaq, as I am answerable to IMAM UZ ZAMAN a.s whether I was on right path to go to him or not.
I am in the mood to send Badri to renew his misaaq lol.

Wassalam
What will happen on the day of judgement? What your aqeeda says?
Just a general question to you?
Who is going to appear ALLAH subhanahu tala or IMAM UZ ZAMAAN a.s?
Who is going to disclose the real deen? PROPHET ISA a.s or ALLAH subhanahu tala?
To whom we should join in the final battle To IMAM UZ ZAMAAN a.s or ALLAH subhanahu tala?

The one who is in ghaib will give us HIS appearance is one of the top most sign of the day of judgement?
We have to answer HIM first to go ahead to the next journey...beyats and misaaqs will be on the top priorities on that day, be serious on this, we all have to give our beyat to IMAM UZ ZAMAAN a.s saying na'am as an answer to all of his questions.

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#700

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:52 pm

Allah talks in the Quran about meeting HIM on the day of judgment. Not some Imam or some representative.

Here is an example. The last ayah of Surah Kahf.

Say [O Prophet]: "I am but a mortal man like all of you. It has been revealed unto me that your God is the One and Only God. Hence, whoever looks forward to meeting his Sustainer, let him do righteous deeds, and let him not ascribe unto anyone or anything a share in the worship due to his Sustainer!"

The concept of Imam uz zaman has nothing to do with Islam. It is a creation of human minds. Does any bohra know the name of their Imam uz zaman? or of the previous zaman? or before that? There has been no Imam uz zaman for a thousand years. That should've been an eye opener for those who are not blind.

Ruqaiyya
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:32 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#701

Unread post by Ruqaiyya » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:17 pm

anajmi wrote:Allah talks in the Quran about meeting HIM on the day of judgment. Not some Imam or some representative.

Here is an example. The last ayah of Surah Kahf.

Say [O Prophet]: "I am but a mortal man like all of you. It has been revealed unto me that your God is the One and Only God. Hence, whoever looks forward to meeting his Sustainer, let him do righteous deeds, and let him not ascribe unto anyone or anything a share in the worship due to his Sustainer!"

The concept of Imam uz zaman has nothing to do with Islam. It is a creation of human minds. Does any bohra know the name of their Imam uz zaman? or of the previous zaman? or before that? There has been no Imam uz zaman for a thousand years. That should've been an eye opener for those who are not blind.
What a poor post!
Next to Badri lacewala I guess.

You are not believing on IMAM UZ ZAMAN a.s?
This is not about bohra or sulaimani or khoja or shia, it is in the ISLAM that IMAM pardey maa che, and along with the PROPHET ISAA a.s IMAM will give his appearence, the cycle of the IMAM can be different in different sectors of followers but don't abuse this terminology of IMAM UZ ZAMAN typing meaningless things.

IMAM UZ ZAMAN na maujood howa nu inkaar itley su tamey jaano cho? It means the silsila of nass has been finished, the silsila which is started from ALI A.S AND FATEMA S.A is not going to finish ever. His blood is in the world haazir aney maujood clear the concept now only.

Sooraah Bani Israail (Ayaah 71) read it out carefully
ALLAH subhanahu tala is making us remembering the day of judgement saying
"""Remember that day when we will call all Humans with Imam of their time"""

Explore sooraah e baqraah (Ayaah 1-3)
and find the real meaning of this ayat in the Book: KAMALUDEEN VOL:2 pG;348

Imam said: Muttaqiyo si muraad KHUDA ni MAULA E MUTTAQQIN ALI a.s na shiya si che, Je IMAM E MUTTAQIN par bharoso raakhe che, aney ghaib si muraad IMAMUL GHAIB a.s ni che.

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#702

Unread post by seeker110 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:29 pm

Badribhai Lacewala is a learned Shiekh and Mola no dikro chey. He will be with Mola till the end of times. Two peas in the pod.

alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#703

Unread post by alam » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:30 pm

Admin wrote:Saminaben, SBM, abde53

We agree wholeheartedly. Everybody is welcome to post on this From. Discouraging people from coming here by throwing "misaq" at them is a weak and devious argument. Please stop doing that. And yes, we would like to see and encourage contributions from more women.
Please see thread viewtopic.php?f=23&t=9595 for related Interest on Risks and pitfalls of Anonymous forums, and cyber bullying.

Also of concern here is attitude of superiority, arrogance, "your posts or questions are not worthy of a response", "you won't get it, because you are a brain dead Abde". Constant put downs has become a norm, so posters from all viewpoints (progressive, regressive, reformist, SKQ, SMS agnostics, etc etc) regress toward this mean.

SMS agents seem to be very happy and content when aggression, cyber bullying and hostility take over this forum. Mission accomplished - for them.

canadian
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:57 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#704

Unread post by canadian » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:33 pm

anajmi wrote:Allah talks in the Quran about meeting HIM on the day of judgment. Not some Imam or some representative.

Here is an example. The last ayah of Surah Kahf.

Say [O Prophet]: "I am but a mortal man like all of you. It has been revealed unto me that your God is the One and Only God. Hence, whoever looks forward to meeting his Sustainer, let him do righteous deeds, and let him not ascribe unto anyone or anything a share in the worship due to his Sustainer!"

The concept of Imam uz zaman has nothing to do with Islam. It is a creation of human minds. Does any bohra know the name of their Imam uz zaman? or of the previous zaman? or before that? There has been no Imam uz zaman for a thousand years. That should've been an eye opener for those who are not blind.
Bro. anajmi:
Like so many Bohras I have taken for granted a lot of beliefs and rituals. You seem to be a young man (at least compared to an old fogey like me!), but your posts are scholastic and enlightening and I have been learning a lot. Keep up the good work. God bless you.

dawedaar
Posts: 844
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:40 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#705

Unread post by dawedaar » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:11 pm

I fear what the current bohra leadership will do to the Imam if he decides to do zuhoor considering how they treated their own father, the 52nd Dai during his final 2 years, parading an incapacitated 100 year old man inflicted by stroke in public frequently (When he should have been resting peacefully without much crowd around him) much to his agony that was relevant on his face in his final years!
Ruqaiyya wrote: What will happen on the day of judgement? What your aqeeda says?
Just a general question to you?
Who is going to appear ALLAH subhanahu tala or IMAM UZ ZAMAAN a.s?
Who is going to disclose the real deen? PROPHET ISA a.s or ALLAH subhanahu tala?
To whom we should join in the final battle To IMAM UZ ZAMAAN a.s or ALLAH subhanahu tala?

The one who is in ghaib will give us HIS appearance is one of the top most sign of the day of judgement?
We have to answer HIM first to go ahead to the next journey...beyats and misaaqs will be on the top priorities on that day, be serious on this, we all have to give our beyat to IMAM UZ ZAMAAN a.s saying na'am as an answer to all of his questions.

Ruqaiyya
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:32 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#706

Unread post by Ruqaiyya » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:45 pm

Anyways guys, see you Inshaallah after few days as I am flying tomorrow.
Unknowingly if I hurt anyone of you, bolu chalu maaf.
Dua maa yaad sagla.
Fi Amanillah
Wassalam

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#707

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:02 pm

dawedaar wrote:BTW, SMS performed 40 nikahs day before yesterday with each couple's bank balance brought down by $10,000! That's $400,000 in a jiffy... that could be someone's (low income group) 10 or 20 year salary in US or lifetime's earnings or more than that in other parts of the world..
Ruqaiyya wrote:
@Ruqaiyya ben sahib, how do you plan to defend or justify this?
Huzurula (TUS) solemnized the nikkah of Ali Asgar Shk Hatim Bhai Maimoon with d/o of Shk. Zulfiqar Bhai Zakir on 13mi raat Moharrum in Houston

Image

Huzurula (TUS) solemnized the nikah of Mufaddal Murtaza Jupiterwala with d/o Shk. Shabbir Bhai Jamaly on 13mi raat Moharrum in Houston

Image

Huzurula (TUS) solemnized the nikah of Ammar Abbas bhai Mandvi with d/o Shk. Zoeib Bhai Rangwala on 13mi raat Moharrum in Houston

Image

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#708

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:09 pm

Shz Aliasger Bs Dm Presided over Ashara Mubaraka 1437 Badri Masjid Mumbai

Image

Image

Image

alivasan
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 9:28 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#709

Unread post by alivasan » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:49 pm

Ruqaiyya wrote:Anyways guys, see you Inshaallah after few days as I am flying tomorrow.
Unknowingly if I hurt anyone of you, bolu chalu maaf.
Dua maa yaad sagla.
Fi Amanillah
Wassalam
Ruqiyya Aunty,

before leaving Will appreciate if you can throw some concluding light on topic of immam uz zaman on this thread as this is not new topic and most common debated one on forum.

according to you if immam uz zamman will appear

when..?
what will be his name?
how is he or she linked to nuss chain????
who will introduce him..dai ??? or will he recognise duats ??? who all ,till which dai??

Also want to know how come he or she kept hidden for so long ?

And last but not least what is your belief on quranic ayat quoted by Bro Anajmi??

alivasan
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 9:28 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#710

Unread post by alivasan » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:26 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:Shz Aliasger Bs Dm Presided over Ashara Mubaraka 1437 Badri Masjid Mumbai

Image

The h&@$)(;zada pose like SANTACLAUS!!!

What makes him super excited?

Image

Image

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#711

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:22 am

Ruqaiyya wrote:Going against badri lacewala you think I violate the terms of Misaaq?
You have any idea of Misaaq? Or only throwing the words to entertain your people of this forum to be on the first rank?
Ruqaiyya Ben
You have not read my posts clearly. I have given sufficient explanation how your objection to badri lacewala’s speech is against judgement of SMS is in violation of misaaq conditions to which you sworn Naam.

Well Misaak in its practical sense, was a political requirement back in the days and ritualistic tool in current scenario. Thousands if not millions bohras don’t follow conditions of the misaak as they are outlined. Reducing misaak as a mere event of celebration for bohras and business for kothar.

You may be shocked and surprised with these opinions, I speak practically and not stuck and bent with bookish theories, which sound fantastic but are not followed by their own preachers.

Some Misaak conditions are archaic and impractical, which stand against human rights and law of the land. So somewhere or other, every abde, bohra and kotharies are not following the misaak in other words, breaking the oath.
Ruqaiyya wrote:The one who is with badriwala and agree with what all he said should go to renew their misaaqs, (I AM MORE THAN SURE ON THIS)
Well then in that case, there should be a grand misaak party of the top brass and thousands of abde idiots who were listening to the blasphemy applauding and agreeing to what he was ranting.

Silence of SMS and other position holders on such blasphemy under their nose and raza amount to their agreement on what he said.
Ruqaiyya wrote:I feel what I have researched about MAAH E MUHARRAM by my personal resources and following the same since 20+ years, I never said anyone right or wrong, Did I say anywhere that I deny the amal of DAAI tus? So who can disqualify my Misaaq?
Your thoughts of keeping the maah-e-muharram in sobriety, austerity and simplicity is a noble thought. Unfortunately, this are not followed by SMB and SMS. What you say or not is immaterial. According to abde ideaologies supported by conditions of the misaak. An Abde cannot even hold a thought which would be against actions, judgements, words of DAI. In other words, there is a nifaak if one keeps a thought in their hearts which would be against DAI’s preachings or actions or judgements or farmaans.

Now this is where tricky part is. Thousands don’t keep beards, don’t wear ridaas, keep FB accounts and many other simple stuff that violates DAI’s preachings and farmaans. Yet their misaak is fine. Don’t pay sabeel, wajebaat, demand accountability, transparency, question justice etc and baaam ! misaak is gone. One has to apologize, pay penalty, right maafi namaa, bow, bend, crawl and get the misaak done .. now you get the drift ! .. I don’t think so !

You are playing with your own words, mind and conscience! your DAI is doing opposite of what you believe for Maahe-e-muharram !

Ruqaiyya
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:32 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#712

Unread post by Ruqaiyya » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:25 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
dawedaar wrote:BTW, SMS performed 40 nikahs day before yesterday with each couple's bank balance brought down by $10,000! That's $400,000 in a jiffy... that could be someone's (low income group) 10 or 20 year salary in US or lifetime's earnings or more than that in other parts of the world..
@Ruqaiyya ben sahib, how do you plan to defend or justify this? Images deleted by Admin/Moderator for duplicity)

To, Ghulam Mohammad and Human being.

Dear I am not playing with my own words, why I should play with my own words? I have clearly mentioned what I believe, only ALLAH s.w.t knows whether I am right or not, I don't want to leave my belief as references are very strong which I am carrying but at the same time I cannot say what all goes in dawat is wrong, because I may be correct at 9 places and not aware about the tenth one, I don't know everything to be honest, no one knows everything except the Almighty Allah s.w.t, So I don't want to judge anyone who is right or who is wrong.

Maah-e-muharrram is something which should be on one side and the whole world is on another, with me its like this only, I remember IMAM HUSAIN and shaheeds in my each prayer reciting the names of Ashaabs & Ahlulbayts, I go to marasiya majalis everyday, I don't accept any invitations up to Arbaeen, I don't keep more lights in my home, like we have a big jhumar in hall and other big lamps, I don't put them on up to Arbaeen, I use mid-lights, I don't go to the parties, no birthdays, no other events, I don't wear sharp colors these days, I don't watch TV may be news sometimes, so these are small things no so big that everyone has to follow it, its neither farizah nor sunnah, its only respect to the family members of Imam Husain a.s who is in sham these days facing a lot of troubles.

So I cannot say the one who is doing marriage in these days doesn't pay respect to Imam Husain a.s or the one who celebrate brithdays doesn't pay respect to Imam Husain and many more things...If you want me to say that ongoing marriages by Daai TUS is wrong in these days then I am sorry, I cannot say this and once again its not good to JUDGE ANYONE BEING A ADNA BANDA/BANDI of ALLAH subhanahu tala.

Ruqaiyya
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:32 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#713

Unread post by Ruqaiyya » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:57 am

canadian wrote:
anajmi wrote:Allah talks in the Quran about meeting HIM on the day of judgment. Not some Imam or some representative.

Here is an example. The last ayah of Surah Kahf.

Say [O Prophet]: "I am but a mortal man like all of you. It has been revealed unto me that your God is the One and Only God. Hence, whoever looks forward to meeting his Sustainer, let him do righteous deeds, and let him not ascribe unto anyone or anything a share in the worship due to his Sustainer!"

The concept of Imam uz zaman has nothing to do with Islam. It is a creation of human minds. Does any bohra know the name of their Imam uz zaman? or of the previous zaman? or before that? There has been no Imam uz zaman for a thousand years. That should've been an eye opener for those who are not blind.
Bro. anajmi:
Like so many Bohras I have taken for granted a lot of beliefs and rituals. You seem to be a young man (at least compared to an old fogey like me!), but your posts are scholastic and enlightening and I have been learning a lot. Keep up the good work. God bless you.
The concept of IMAM UZ ZAMAN???
Is it a concept???
It is not a concept or construction of ideology my brother, it is a fact which is right from Tauheed, if the silsila of Imam will stop, sun will stop shining, seas will be dried out, mountains will become powder of sand, aasmaan zameen na uper tiki na sakey to understand all these you have to go into the deep studies, copying and pasting of ayats for this fan club will not help you much, what you will get from these appreciations?

Now on your aayat..

What you want to prove from this ayat? This ayat is no where near to our discussion going on IMAM UZ ZAMAN a.s, you meant I was giving the daraja of ALLAH s.w.t to IMAM UZ ZAMAN? or something like that? Its wrong you took me in a wrong way read my lines again..

And read the followings:
يُظْهِرَه عَلَى الدِّيْنِ كُلِّهِ وَ لَوْ كَرِهَ الْمُشْرِكُوْن (Surah Taubah (9): Verse 33)
That He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists maybe averse to it.
The above verse alludes to Imam us zamaan a.s. from the progeny of Hazrat Zahra and Maula ALI a.s

وَاِنَّه لَعِلْمٌ لِلسَّاعَةِ. (Surah Zukhruf (43): verse 61)
And most surely it is a knowledge of the hour.
Is referring to Imam uz zamaan a.s who will appear in the last era. They opine that this reappearance will coincide with the last era, and shall be the prelude for the other signs and harbingers of the Day of Judgment.

وَ لَقَدْ كَتَبْنَا فِى الزَّبُوْرِ مِنْ بَعْدِ الذِّكْرِ اَنَّ اْلاَرْضَ يَرِثُهَا عِبَادِىَ الصَّالِحُوْ (Surah Anbiyaa (21): Verse 105)
And certainly We wrote in the Psalms after the reminder (Old Testament) that (as for) the land, My righteous servants shall inherit it.


اَلاَ اِنَّ الَّذِيْنَ يُمَارُوْنَ فِىْ السَّاعَةِ لَفِىْ ضَلاَلٍ بَعِيْدٍ (Surah Shura (42): Verse 18)
Now most surely those who dispute obstinately concerning the hour are in great error.


وَ يَقُوْلُوْنَ لَوْلاَ اُنْزِلَ عَلَيْهِ آيَاتٌ مِنْ رَّبِّهِ فَقُلْ اِنَّمَا الْغَيْبُ ِللهِ فَانْتَظِرُوا اِنِّىْ مَعَكُمْ مِنَ الْمُنْتَظِرِيْنَ. (Surah Yunus (10): Verse 20)

And they say, ‘Why is not a sign sent to him from his Lord? Say, ‘The unseen is only for Allah, therefore wait; surely I too am with those who await.’

----IMAM JAFA US SADIQ a.s ye aa ayaat nu zikar (Yanaabi al-Mawaddah chap 71) maa behtar andaaz maa kidu che, aney unseen allude karein che qaim ni taraf.


IMAM UZ ZAMAAN a.s nu ikhtiyaar qaaynaat uper che, ehma koi shak nathi, PANJETAN a.s ne KHUDA ye pota na noor si banaya ehma koi shak nathi, ye noor nu ek hisso RASULULLAH s.a.w aney MAULA ALI a.s na noor maa shamil che, yej noor FATEMA s.a maa shamil che, aa noor si paida thaya noor koi waqat faani nahi thayi sakey, and because of that ALI ZAINUL ABEDIN a.s didn't get raza to go to the maqtal on Ashura.

Imam pachi Imam paida thayi raya che ehma koi shak nathi, shak laaujo bhi na, SALMANUL FARISI s.a ye hamesha farmayu che, ke duniya maa ek silsilo hariz faani nahi thayi aney ye silsilo MOHAMMAD AAL E MOHAMMAD nu che.

Khatemul Ambiya par Islam kaayam thayu che, Khatemul ambiya par Usool e deen Nubuwat lag pohochu che,
Tauheed, Risalat, Imamat, Nubuwat-----one thing is remaining now which is Qayamat, Qayamat na saaheb Imam uz zamaan che, je Isa alayhissalam na saathey zuhoor karse ehma shak thawa si saglu khatam thai jaase.

Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#714

Unread post by Al-Noor » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:38 am

Shame on 2 billion muslims, 1 billion shias, 50 million ismailis and 1 million bohras....we are in such a huge numbers yet Imam uz zaman is not able to find a single person among us who can be his deputy and DAI.

he has no choice but to chose dai from the same family from last 400 years, and looks like he wont have any choice to chose any dai but from the same family for coming few generations....wow this family must be having some REAL good qualities.

Pun intended

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#715

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:02 am

Ruqaiyya wrote:Dear I am not playing with my own words, why I should play with my own words? I have clearly mentioned what I believe, only ALLAH s.w.t knows whether I am right or not, I don't want to leave my belief as references are very strong which I am carrying but at the same time I cannot say what all goes in dawat is wrong, because I may be correct at 9 places and not aware about the tenth one, I don't know everything to be honest, no one knows everything except the Almighty Allah s.w.t, So I don't want to judge anyone who is right or who is wrong.
Ruqaiyya ben
As per your opinions, lets not judge badri Lacewala also. He is accountable for his speeches to allah and dai-uz-zamaan, more so he said those in presence, raza and understanding of the raza-na-sahebs appointed by Dai-uz-Zaman. Now you may not be more learned then those saahebs.

Appreciate your measure of austerity and simplicity you observe to mark respect in mahe-e-muharram. These are small initiatives yet difficult to keep away from temptations. Wish SMS could understand this in simpler ways.
Ruqaiyya wrote:So I cannot say the one who is doing marriage in these days doesn't pay respect to Imam Husain a.s or the one who celebrate brithdays doesn't pay respect to Imam Husain and many more things...If you want me to say that ongoing marriages by Daai TUS is wrong in these days then I am sorry, I cannot say this and once again its not good to JUDGE ANYONE BEING A ADNA BANDA/BANDI of ALLAH subhanahu tala.
Well ! well ! I am commenting only on the basis of what SMB, SMS and kothari mullahs preach and not practice. No objections with nikaahs, nisbats and salgiraahs that happens in muharram. It is the commercialization, show, pomp and opulence that I feel is wrong. There is nothing to judge, stupidity is pretty evident. Lack of austerity, simplicity and humility is evident enough that requires no judging but condemnation. Now, I am not saint, leader or pious ! I don’t mislead thousands and millions to falsehood. My influence is limited to few or actually none. But the Kothari leadership are doing something greatly influential.

dawedaar
Posts: 844
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:40 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#716

Unread post by dawedaar » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:54 am

Ruling over 1 million people (Oppresively) and earning millions every day without going to work for even a single hour and convincing people to be their slaves for life.... Tell me what better qualities do you want?
Al-Noor wrote:Shame on 2 billion muslims, 1 billion shias, 50 million ismailis and 1 million bohras....we are in such a huge numbers yet Imam uz zaman is not able to find a single person among us who can be his deputy and DAI.

he has no choice but to chose dai from the same family from last 400 years, and looks like he wont have any choice to chose any dai but from the same family for coming few generations.... wow this family must be having some REAL good qualities.
Pun intended

Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#717

Unread post by Al-Noor » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:03 am

by dawedaar » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:54 pm
Ruling over 1 million people (Oppresively) and earning millions every day without going to work for even a single hour and convincing people to be their slaves for life.... Tell me what better qualities do you want?
well yes they are brilliant in this, I should give them misaaq what say?

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#718

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:13 am

Dear Ruqaiyya Ben,
It is not a concept or construction of ideology my brother, it is a fact which is right from Tauheed,
I am not sure if it is Tawheed that you haven't understood or if it is the concept of Imam uz zaman that you haven't understood, but one has nothing to do with the other. Infact, the concept of Imam uz zaman is in direct contradiction to Tawheed.
if the silsila of Imam will stop, sun will stop shining, seas will be dried out, mountains will become powder of sand, aasmaan zameen na uper tiki na sakey to understand all these you have to go into the deep studies, copying and pasting of ayats for this fan club will not help you much, what you will get from these appreciations?
Silsila of Imam stopped a thousand years ago. Do you know where your current Imam is? The seas are still there, the mountains are still there. Seas and mountains obey only the command of Allah. Not of some fictional character that you have created that hasn't been seen in a thousand years.
This ayat is no where near to our discussion going on IMAM UZ ZAMAN
Correct. There are no ayahs in the Quran discussing your Imam us zaman. The ayah I quoted simply clarified that on the day of judgment we will be meeting Allah s.w.t. and not some fictional Imam uz zaman.

Now let us get to the ayahs you have quoted and completely misunderstood because of bohra brainwashins sabaqs.

يُظْهِرَه عَلَى الدِّيْنِ كُلِّهِ وَ لَوْ كَرِهَ الْمُشْرِكُوْن (Surah Taubah (9): Verse 33)
You have quoted only a part of the verse. The full verse is
هُوَ الَّذِي أَرْسَلَ رَسُولَهُ بِالْهُدَى وَدِينِ الْحَقِّ لِيُظْهِرَهُ عَلَى الدِّينِ كُلِّهِ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْمُشْرِكُونَ (9:33
It is talking not about your Imam uz zaman but about the prophet (saw) - He it is who has sent forth His Prophet (arsala rasoolahu bialhuda wadeeni alhaqqi ) with the [task of spreading] guidance and the religion of truth.

Please try to understand the ayahs that you quote.

وَاِنَّه لَعِلْمٌ لِلسَّاعَةِ. (Surah Zukhruf (43): verse 61)
Again, you quote only a part of the ayah.
وَإِنَّهُ لَعِلْمٌ لِّلسَّاعَةِ فَلَا تَمْتَرُنَّ بِهَا وَاتَّبِعُونِ هَذَا صِرَاطٌ مُّسْتَقِيمٌ
This ayah is talking about the Quran providing knowledge about the last hour. The Quran paints a clear picture about what will happen on the last hour. How the sinners will be punished and how the righteous will be rewarded. It gives information about how seas will be boiling and mountains will become fluff and how the earth will spit out its contents. All this is precious knowledge about the final hour (day of judgment) mentioned in the Quran clearly. This ayah doesn't refer to some coming of some fictional Imam uz zaman.

وَ لَقَدْ كَتَبْنَا فِى الزَّبُوْرِ مِنْ بَعْدِ الذِّكْرِ اَنَّ اْلاَرْضَ يَرِثُهَا عِبَادِىَ الصَّالِحُوْ (Surah Anbiyaa (21): Verse 105)
This ayah refers to all righteous people.

اَلاَ اِنَّ الَّذِيْنَ يُمَارُوْنَ فِىْ السَّاعَةِ لَفِىْ ضَلاَلٍ بَعِيْدٍ (Surah Shura (42): Verse 18)
The full ayah
يَسْتَعْجِلُ بِهَا الَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ بِهَا وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مُشْفِقُونَ مِنْهَا وَيَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهَا الْحَقُّ أَلَا إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يُمَارُونَ فِي السَّاعَةِ لَفِي ضَلَالٍ بَعِيدٍ
This ayah is talking about those who believe in the day of judgment (they are in awe of it) and those who do not believe in it (they mock it). And those who do not believe in it are most certainly astray. Nothing to do with the Imam uz zaman.

وَ يَقُوْلُوْنَ لَوْلاَ اُنْزِلَ عَلَيْهِ آيَاتٌ مِنْ رَّبِّهِ فَقُلْ اِنَّمَا الْغَيْبُ ِللهِ فَانْتَظِرُوا اِنِّىْ مَعَكُمْ مِنَ الْمُنْتَظِرِيْنَ. (Surah Yunus (10): Verse 20)
And they say, ‘Why is not a sign sent to him from his Lord? Say, ‘The unseen is only for Allah, therefore wait; surely I too am with those who await.’

----IMAM JAFA US SADIQ a.s ye aa ayaat nu zikar (Yanaabi al-Mawaddah chap 71) maa behtar andaaz maa kidu che, aney unseen allude karein che qaim ni taraf.
In this ayah it is the prophet (saw) who is saying that the unseen is only for Allah and he is also with those who await. You seriously think the prophet is waiting for the unseen Imam uz zaman?



The main problem is that the Imam were simply rulers who wanted to maintain an iron grip on the throne and hence they created these interpretations of the quran that have been fooling the ignorants for centuries. I could just as easily claim that these ayahs are referring to the family of Shaikh Anajmi and this has been elaborated in the books written by his forefathers titled - "The greatness of the family of Shaikh Anajmi and their knowledge of unseen"!! The greatness of shaikh anajmi as elaborated by none other than shaikh anajmi himself and the Quran where all ayahs of greatness and righteousness refer to shaikh anajmi as explained by none other than shaikh anajmi himself!!

anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#719

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:57 am

IMAM UZ ZAMAAN a.s nu ikhtiyaar qaaynaat uper che, ehma koi shak nathi,
As I said before, this statement is in direct contradiction with Tawheed. Allah says in the Quran many times

إِنَّ اللّهَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

Allah has power over all things. You say Imam uz zaman has power over all things. Which means you have now associated a partner with Allah. A direct contradiction of tawheed.
Qayamat na saaheb Imam uz zamaan che,
Another contradiction with the Quran. Allah says in the Quran (and the bohras repeat this multiple times a day) - Maliki Yaum ud deen. Allah is the malik of the day of judgment (qayamat) and then you say Qayamat na saaheb Imam uz zamaan che!!

fayyaaz
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#720

Unread post by fayyaaz » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:14 pm

Look, this is the way I see it. Most Bohras do not care about the Imam, if he is hidden or not, if he is the master of the universe or not, or if his re-appearance is imminent or not, or whether the Quran has anything to say about the Imam or not.

Bohras are interested in Moula. That is the the beginning and the end of it.

So, there is no need to pretend being a great scholar of the Quran to debunk the religion of the Bohras. Religion of the Bohras is the Dai. If the Dai uses the Quran to justify self-glorification, then accept that that is acceptable to Bohras.

You may think that that is all against the Quran but that is just your interpretation. In any case, you have no proof that Quran is God's word, just the brain-washing you received. As far as humans are concerned, Quran is the speech of the Prophet who claimed these are God's words. His people believed him and they in turn made others believe them. It is entirely within the rights of people to choose to believe whom they want. Just as early Arabs believed the Prophet, Bohras are free to believe their Moula.

Get that and keep your interpretation of Quran to yourself and let others keep their interpretations too. Peaceful co-existence now. God, if He exists, will take care of this on the Day of Qayamat. Jeeeesus Christ!!