Moharrum and Ashara 2015

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#631

Unread post by Al-Noor » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:55 am

@Ruqaiya
I have already said that I agree certain things he said were not in line with True Fatemi Dawat beliefs. He would have already been informed of his mistake.
This muffy lackey is a liar, normally in such majlis no one can speak unless he gets approval from so called seniors and hudood, even you cant give azaan until u show that you can really give azaan and have voice for it, so it is clear muffy and his team knew what this guy is going to bullshiit yet he got approval.

Adam for once in your life fear ALLAH SUBHANU and speak truth.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#632

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:04 am

Adam wrote:I have already said that I agree certain things he said were not in line with True Fatemi Dawat beliefs. He would have already been informed of his mistake.
Duhh in any case, it shows .. SMS is a poor leader and teacher. Badri lace wala is a sheikh, closest khidmat guzaar and yet his ranting are beyond common sense, logic and in bohra terms blasphemous. I mean cmon .. what was SMS doing when this idiotic statements were going for 20 + minutes .. forget SMS what were other shehzada and amils and learned mullah and sheikh doing when this idiot ranting aloud.

:D :D Ohh Muffy maula’s circus is getting better and better ! :D :D

So whats is next >? are we gonna see badri lacewala coming up again in a croweded majlees and render an apology. and this time, please educate him.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#633

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:52 am

Al-Noor wrote:But I must say he is better orator than his master. he has caliber to bullshiit for 20 mins without looking at papers, while muffy bullshiits with papers in hand....hhmmm, guy behind him are smiling at him coz they know the truth in fact he laughed soo much that finally covered his face with his hands. :lol:
this one is hilarious too, this thread is on a roll with comments. cmon .. muffy maula is better at ranting .. perhaps .. badri lacewala could be upgraded to a better position where he can promote his views, how about sabak sessions .. or enroll him in jamea as a faculty.

did some one even reviewed his speech before he went all ballistic ? kothari thugs are pretty ass tight when it comes to nizaam and raza stuff .. so badri lacewala blabbering these blasphemy in a muharram majlees at the venue of SMS cannot be sweeped under the carpet as a humble mistake by a commoners. badri lace wala is no commoner he is a rich abde, supposedly "dikro" of SMS and he got a chance to walk up amongst the elite grab a mike and entertain people for 20 long minutes ..

adam who you kiddin man .. ! but thanks for commenting, you are brave.... ohh ... muffy maula's circus is getting better and better ..

well badri lacewala is not totally at fault .. bottom to top in kothar have been making tall claims and guranteeing jannat / forgiveness of sins at drop of a tear or affiliation. from dai to mullahs and now rich abdes with influence are emboldened to say anything without any discipline, knowing jantaa is a like a dumm and deaf cattle. lapping up any bull shitt as long as there is jaman in the end of majlees .. they will only get upset if and when jaman-ghati-gayu or jaman ma maja naa aavi !!

Ruqaiyya
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:32 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#634

Unread post by Ruqaiyya » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:42 am

@Badri lacewala bhai
Read the scriptures, if you do not have, order it from IRAN, they will provide you the facts of IMAMS, which you will never get in the sabaks because these facts can create a blunder for the whole system.

When you said IMAM HUSAINa.s ye to 7 farzand aapa aney BURHANUDDIN AQA r.a ye kitla aapa aanu hisaab che?

You try to understand the nomenclature of Zaahir/Batin, if you will understand it, you will understand ALL.

DO YOU KNOW THE SUPER POWERS(ILAAHI QUWWAT) WHICH PANJETAN a.s USED TO HAVE? And do you have any doubts in that?

Do you have any doubt that MAULA ALI a.s thokar si murda ne jeewta kida che, kul ikhtiyaar je MAULA a.s na paasey che, tamney zara pann larzo na aayo ye SAAHEB a.s ne side par mukwa maa?

IMAM HUSAIN a.s ye 7 farzand aapa aney BURHANUDDIN AQA r.a ye kitla aapa aanu hisaab che? SO POOR!!! DAMN POOR!!!

Someone said correctly you are not a rich man you are poor "a bhikari" because you do not have anything for your grave, you have few dollars only for this worldly life.

Shame!

Ruqaiyya
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:32 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#635

Unread post by Ruqaiyya » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:15 am

Adam wrote:@Ruqaiya
I have already said that I agree certain things he said were not in line with True Fatemi Dawat beliefs. He would have already been informed of his mistake.
About his Khidmat. Well, that is up to the Dai to accept his Khidmat or not. Just like Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA accepted his khidmat in the past. It's not yours nor my position to question.

However, if you are yet un satisfied, then:
If you are a follower of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS, then please do araz to the Dai or any of his representatives and Amils in each city.
If you are a follower of KQ, then this won't affect you. But in the meantime, you can inform KQ, that he is also giving completely wrong Tasawwurs, which is affecting his followers' belief.

@UnhappyBohra
If you read my message carefully, I have written why I spoke about KQ. It's because KQ (who according to the Qutbi sect is their leader- and the favourite of this Forum) - gives wrong information - no one says anything.
Here's the text again, just in case you missed it:

CONCLUDING:
What baffles me is the following:
When a person, like Badri Bhai Lacewala, who holds absolutely NO OFFICIAL position in the True Dawat says something wrong, everyone on this Forum goes crazy.
But when KQ (the DAI HIMSELF of his fake Dawat), and his children (TQ,AQ etc) who hold OFFICIAL AMIL/HUDOOD positions (in the Qutbi Dawat), says wrong things, lie about the Quran, Imam Husain AS, Imams & Duats upto the 52nd Dai, and twist the facts to serve their own personal agenda - the Forum doesn't batter an eye?
Why the double standards?
Or is it because since they are running a fake and unimportant Dawat, their actions are ignored?

The habbits of this Forum haven't changed.
Just like it insulted Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA, Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA - they continue to target his TRUE successor, Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS.


Don't mix up the things bhai, you can be clever but not that much,

Why you are desegregating KHIDMAT with his BAYAN? Are we talking about his khidmat or the bayan he has thrown over the mic?
Khidmat to Mukhtar al-Thaqafi ye pann kidi hati IMAM ZAINUL ABEDIN ni sagla dushmano ne maara aney shimr nu maathu IMAM ne pesh kidu, aney IMAM ABEDIN ye ehni khidmat ne manzoor kidi che, then when he has spoken about taking the IMAMAT in his own hands and wanted to become an IMAM, IMAM strictly stopped him. And Imam said you can go back to your village Mukhtar then Mukhtar left him and went to his own place

It shows khidmat IMAM ye kubul kidi magar bayaani mukhtaar ni IMAM ne kubool noti, To AQA MAULA tus ne badri ni khidmat agar manzur che aney bayaani manzur nathi, to MAULA tus ne aa maanas ne bahar karwu joye is my view,
Kindly do not mix up the things.

And yes I am a proud follower of Mufaddal Maula tus and I have done araz also, but remember I don't say na'am being blind. I want an authentic answer on this badriwala's speech, I want to listen that what all he has spoken was without raza (less chances of this).

Truth-Prevails
Posts: 146
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:02 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#636

Unread post by Truth-Prevails » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:43 am

@Ruqaiya behen,

I see the angst and the anger you are feeling based on what this lacewala has spoken. And your responses on his various twisted tasavurs are noteworthy. I support you on your initiative and encourage you to not feel disheartened.

Do take a moment and ask your own heart if this Lacewala has come up with this nonsense on his own or has been encouraged to think and believe this way. He spoke with conviction and also if you notice he had a train of thought that he was going with.

Interestingly before the blasphemy that he committed against Panjatan Paak he started his speech with again lying about what was apparently said in a court of law. Please read the transcripts of what was asked and what was answered (note this is from http://www.fatemidawatlegal.com).

Mr. Chagla is MS's Lawyer(I do not believe in him so I will use initials to not offend you). Please note the question that Mr. Chagla asked that I have highlighted in BOLD below. Do you not feel that even speaking that way about Syedna Burhanuddin RA is wrong if not more.

Mr. Chagla asked the Plaintiff if the 52nd Dai was in full control of his faculties till he passed away. The Plaintiff replied that the health of the 52nd Dai was not good for the last two and half years of his life.

Mr. Chagla then repeated his question by asking if the 52nd Dai was in full control of his mental and physical faculties till he passed away. The Plaintiff responded that he felt and believed that the health of the 52nd Dai had deteriorated greatly during the last two and half years of his life.

Mr. Chagla further asked if the Plaintiff was referring to only the physical health or mental health of the 52nd Dai as well. The Plaintiff replied that the 52nd Dai was not able to function and carry out his activities as before. Mr. Chagla asked if according to the Plaintiff the 52nd Dai was of sound mind till his passing. The Plaintiff responded that he observed that the 52nd Dai was not either physically or mentally active as he once was.

Then Mr. Chagla asked if the Plaintiff agreed that the 52nd Dai was of sound mind till his passing away. The Plaintiff asked Mr. Chagla to clarify what he meant by “of sound mind”. To that Mr. Chagla asked if the 52nd Dai was insane. The Plaintiff emphatically said “No. I would not say that.”
Mr. Chagla asked the Plaintiff if the 52nd Dai was capable of taking decisions on his own till his passing away. The Plaintiff said that he was not sure.

On being further asked what his reasons were for doubting the 52nd Dai’s capacity to take independent decisions, the Plaintiff said that whenever he went to the Syedna in the last two and half years of his life he noticed a significant difference in him. On being asked how frequently he visited the 52nd Dai in those last two and a half years, the Plaintiff said that during this period he would visit him often whenever the 52nd Dai was in Mumbai.


Now compare this account with what Lacewala spoke in his speech. He claims he was talking to MS's son Mr. Taha in court when he was upset on hearing the answers. But, if I was in court I would take offense to Mr. Chagla's question and his client for allowing and encouraging that question to be asked.

Since such a senior lawyer like Iqbal Chagla was compelled to ask this "insane" question I would not be surprised that Lacewala was repeating (albeit in his style) what he was hearing from people he was close to.

Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#637

Unread post by Al-Noor » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:50 am

@Badri lacewala bhai
Read the scriptures, if you do not have, order it from IRAN, they will provide you the facts of IMAMS, which you will never get in the sabaks because these facts can create a blunder for the whole system.
wow so she already knows that this system is created based on lies and scams yet muffy is maula and she cant hear any thing bad about him? Amazing

Ruqaiyya
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:32 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#638

Unread post by Ruqaiyya » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:30 am

Truth-Prevails wrote:@Ruqaiya behen,

I see the angst and the anger you are feeling based on what this lacewala has spoken. And your responses on his various twisted tasavurs are noteworthy. I support you on your initiative and encourage you to not feel disheartened.

Do take a moment and ask your own heart if this Lacewala has come up with this nonsense on his own or has been encouraged to think and believe this way. He spoke with conviction and also if you notice he had a train of thought that he was going with.

Interestingly before the blasphemy that he committed against Panjatan Paak he started his speech with again lying about what was apparently said in a court of law. Please read the transcripts of what was asked and what was answered (note this is from http://www.fatemidawatlegal.com).

Mr. Chagla is MS's Lawyer(I do not believe in him so I will use initials to not offend you). Please note the question that Mr. Chagla asked that I have highlighted in BOLD below. Do you not feel that even speaking that way about Syedna Burhanuddin RA is wrong if not more.

Mr. Chagla asked the Plaintiff if the 52nd Dai was in full control of his faculties till he passed away. The Plaintiff replied that the health of the 52nd Dai was not good for the last two and half years of his life.

Mr. Chagla then repeated his question by asking if the 52nd Dai was in full control of his mental and physical faculties till he passed away. The Plaintiff responded that he felt and believed that the health of the 52nd Dai had deteriorated greatly during the last two and half years of his life.

Mr. Chagla further asked if the Plaintiff was referring to only the physical health or mental health of the 52nd Dai as well. The Plaintiff replied that the 52nd Dai was not able to function and carry out his activities as before. Mr. Chagla asked if according to the Plaintiff the 52nd Dai was of sound mind till his passing. The Plaintiff responded that he observed that the 52nd Dai was not either physically or mentally active as he once was.

Then Mr. Chagla asked if the Plaintiff agreed that the 52nd Dai was of sound mind till his passing away. The Plaintiff asked Mr. Chagla to clarify what he meant by “of sound mind”. To that Mr. Chagla asked if the 52nd Dai was insane. The Plaintiff emphatically said “No. I would not say that.”
Mr. Chagla asked the Plaintiff if the 52nd Dai was capable of taking decisions on his own till his passing away. The Plaintiff said that he was not sure.

On being further asked what his reasons were for doubting the 52nd Dai’s capacity to take independent decisions, the Plaintiff said that whenever he went to the Syedna in the last two and half years of his life he noticed a significant difference in him. On being asked how frequently he visited the 52nd Dai in those last two and a half years, the Plaintiff said that during this period he would visit him often whenever the 52nd Dai was in Mumbai.


Now compare this account with what Lacewala spoke in his speech. He claims he was talking to MS's son Mr. Taha in court when he was upset on hearing the answers. But, if I was in court I would take offense to Mr. Chagla's question and his client for allowing and encouraging that question to be asked.

Since such a senior lawyer like Iqbal Chagla was compelled to ask this "insane" question I would not be surprised that Lacewala was repeating (albeit in his style) what he was hearing from people he was close to.
Thanks for the explanation bhai, it may be a truth also I am not denying but I have a problem bhai, what I don't personally know I never comment on that and it is hard for me to accept or deny the things which is out of my knowledge which is logical too, I really do not have any knowledge about the legal cases thing and as of now I don't have any plan to go into that as well, how I can type the lines which is out of my knowledge(hope you can understand)

But my knowledge was absolutely clashing with badri lacewala's speech which I couldn't bear and that's why being very busy I started posting against him.

And one advice to everyone here, I see all of you emphasis more on DAAI and their fighting their cases and all, one is abusing the other one. But never I read anything about DEEN E KHUDA, Ambiyaa kiraam, lessons related to risalat Nubuwat Imamat and the talks on the day of judgement, why so? Is it because these things are not entertaining all of you?

Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#639

Unread post by Al-Noor » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:53 am

And one advice to everyone here, I see all of you emphasis more on DAAI and their fighting their cases and all, one is abusing the other one. But never I read anything about DEEN E KHUDA, Ambiyaa kiraam, lessons related to risalat Nubuwat Imamat and the talks on the day of judgement, why so? Is it because these things are not entertaining all of you?
you have not seen anything yet then....you are too busy with lacewala that you are not even able to see what is going on around you lol nothing happens without ur fav muffy raza and this speech of this moron was also orchestra by muffy sahab. lacewala is just a puppet strings are in muffy and Qaid johar hands.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#640

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:06 am

Ruqaiyya wrote:And yes I am a proud follower of Mufaddal Maula tus and I have done araz also, but remember I don't say na'am being blind. I want an authentic answer on this badriwala's speech, I want to listen that what all he has spoken was without raza (less chances of this).
Sister Ruqaiyya
It is a good start to have come up on this website. You do seem to present common sense, better off than other abdes. More you going to explore the reality of SMS, you will be disappointed with his leadership. Your words are not acceptable to SMS and may nullify your misaak. Questioning badri lacewala’s speech is accusing SMS. You are questioning SMS’s intellect and judgement to keep such idiots around and up close.

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 568
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#641

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:09 am

IMG_1054.mp4
(5.18 MiB) Downloaded 1890 times
Insults of imams in imam's majlis, men fighting in mawaid, fools photographing themselves with half nakey women! What is this community coming to? Are we indeed a community drifting without hidayat as someone said here??!!

Ruqaiyya
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:32 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#642

Unread post by Ruqaiyya » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:13 am

Al-Noor wrote:
And one advice to everyone here, I see all of you emphasis more on DAAI and their fighting their cases and all, one is abusing the other one. But never I read anything about DEEN E KHUDA, Ambiyaa kiraam, lessons related to risalat Nubuwat Imamat and the talks on the day of judgement, why so? Is it because these things are not entertaining all of you?
you have not seen anything yet then....you are too busy with lacewala that you are not even able to see what is going on around you lol nothing happens without ur fav muffy raza and this speech of this moron was also orchestra by muffy sahab. lacewala is just a puppet strings are in muffy and Qaid johar hands.
I am too busy with lacewala because I am here only for lacewala "Mind it" and I know what is going around me very much, I am seeing people like you around me in this forum who don't know how to talk with a lady, you only know how to insult people, you have no sense to talk, what the hell you are thinking by saying muffy muffy you will make me to change my aqeeda? It is making me more stronger each time you disrespect him and by insulting him you are showing your family background, this is how you have been born and brought up by your elders, Munaafiq! Stay away!

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#643

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:50 am

UnhappyBohra wrote: men fighting in mawaid, fools photographing themselves with half nakey women! What is this community coming to? Are we indeed a community drifting without hidayat as someone said here??!!
ohh c'mon dear , these are acts of local people just reacting to situations. it can happen with anyone .. fighting over masalla space, seating space, thaals, jaman, tea spilling etc .. not everyone is understanding, composed and calm to handle incidents and such fights and quarrels happen.

posing with skimpy dressed ladies was little distasteful, yet it is not worth highlighting. IMO. bohra / abdes keep long beard and wear topi as a social norm rather than for piety. most of them have no sense of judgement between silly rights and wrongs .. they continue to act as they please. if these bohras were not appearing with daadhi and topi no one wud know they are bohras / abdes in the first place.

Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#644

Unread post by Al-Noor » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:07 am

Ruqaiyya wrote:
Al-Noor wrote:
you have not seen anything yet then....you are too busy with lacewala that you are not even able to see what is going on around you lol nothing happens without ur fav muffy raza and this speech of this moron was also orchestra by muffy sahab. lacewala is just a puppet strings are in muffy and Qaid johar hands.
I am too busy with lacewala because I am here only for lacewala "Mind it" and I know what is going around me very much, I am seeing people like you around me in this forum who don't know how to talk with a lady, you only know how to insult people, you have no sense to talk, what the hell you are thinking by saying muffy muffy you will make me to change my aqeeda? It is making me more stronger each time you disrespect him and by insulting him you are showing your family background, this is how you have been born and brought up by your elders, Munaafiq! Stay away!
I wonder if MS has planted Adam with pseudo name ruqayya to make it look different, because at the end of day both are here to praise Muffy and blame others and call munafiq....btw I havent call you munafiq yet and I havent disrespect you as a "lady" so I am not sure what kiind of gutter background you coming from to call me munafiq... :lol: any ways u are too silly to offend me, I will let you rant more so that finally all your rant will fall on deaf ears of muffy.
Last edited by Al-Noor on Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ruqaiyya
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:32 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#645

Unread post by Ruqaiyya » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:17 am

Al-Noor wrote:
Ruqaiyya wrote:
I am too busy with lacewala because I am here only for lacewala "Mind it" and I know what is going around me very much, I am seeing people like you around me in this forum who don't know how to talk with a lady, you only know how to insult people, you have no sense to talk, what the hell you are thinking by saying muffy muffy you will make me to change my aqeeda? It is making me more stronger each time you disrespect him and by insulting him you are showing your family background, this is how you have been born and brought up by your elders, Munaafiq! Stay away!
I wonder if MS has planted Adam with pseudo name ruqayya to make it look different, because at the end of day both are here to praise Muffy and blame others and call munafiq....btw I havent call you munafiq yet and I havent disrespect you as a "lady" so I am not sure what kiind of gutter background you coming from to call me munafiq... :lol: any ways u are too silly to offend me, I will let you rant more so that finally all your rant will fall on deaf ears of muffy.
I do not require any tarbiyat from my background to call a person munaafiq who is insulting DAAI ZAMAAN TUS, I don't know who is Adam ad what you are talking about, yes it was my disrespect as you were disrespecting my spiritual leader, if you have any views about him, you should type your views without insulting him, change yourself and be a human, tamara logo nu su you can find negatives in RASULULLAH s.a.w you can do anything but I will not let you do it in front of me, do it in your own world(home) where everyone is just like you.

Adam
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#646

Unread post by Adam » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:38 am

@UnHappyBohra:
In contrast, thousands of thoughtful mumineen instantly see the truth in SKQ's words. There is NO comparison. Don't divert the issue.

Not diverting the issue. I already gave my opinion on Mr Badri's speech. On the other hand, I wasn't comparing KQ to Badri. I was comparing the double standards of people on this Forum. That is, when Badri makes a mistake, all hell breaks loose, and when KQ is lying in his bayaans, you'll don't seem to care?

@Zinger:
I'll answer your questions first, and then give my opinion as to the REAL problem.
No. Syedna Mufaddal TUS wasn't present during his speech.

1. I am aware of a few. Some i was present. Some I've heard. Regarding KQ's mistake, I wasn't present. But i've heard Burhanuddin Moula's bayaan in regards to this.
2. ? I haven't.
3. He does a lot of financial khidmat i'm told. He also assist in Legal issues. He's not a Mulla nor Sheikh, as far as I know.
4. Have you been to Ashara? In the night Majlis, various people request an opportunity to speak and share their thoughts on the waaz, or Moula etc. He would have already been informed of his mistake. Many other "normal" people have given speeches.


@ Truth-Prevails
Nice job in highlighting the WRONG part. What you should have highlighted was the following
That's what Badri was referring to.
Mr. Chagla further asked if the Plaintiff was referring to only the physical health or mental health of the 52nd Dai as well. The Plaintiff replied that the 52nd Dai was not able to function and carry out his activities as before. Mr. Chagla asked if according to the Plaintiff the 52nd Dai was of sound mind till his passing. The Plaintiff responded that he observed that the 52nd Dai was not either physically or mentally active as he once was.

Or this:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 672477.cms


About the Lawyer's question. Since KQ kept giving wishy washy answers, he was asked multiple times. And we all heard it from the horses' mouth.
If you have read al Majalis Moiyediya (and you probably have) - the same style of questioning is used.



=========================
@ZINGER BHAI
Now. Here's the issue:
I have already clarified I felt some of his opinions were wrong, and some were right.

But, we could go on about "Why" this "why" that. But since this isn't a fundamental or primary issue, you could go on discussing forever without any outcome, and you'll still be back at square one.
Why? Because, since you do not believe in Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS as the true and only successor of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA and the 53rd Dai - none of the answers will suffice.
Simply put:
If you did believe in Syedna TUS - your thoughts would be different.
1) If you felt Badri was wrong, you would have approached the Dai or his representatives of the same - and informed them as your responsibility.
2) Your belief in the Dai wouldn't change.

Let's "suppose" you were 100% satisfied with my answer about Badri. Would that change your stance in accepting Syedna Mufaddal TUS? No, absolutely not! So what's the point?

What you should be discussing instead is, who is Syedna Burhanuddin's successor? How does Nass happen, and how did it happen? Is Nass without witnesses valid? etc. Since KQ is lying, doesn't that negate him from being the Dai?

Those are the primary fundamental issues you should be focusing on. Only once that foundation is set, does it make sense talking about Badri Lacewala and Mufaddal Moula's Dawat. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time.

You can go on asking "why" - but you won't get a real answer from me. Because neither am I Badri, nor the Dai, nor anyone present at the time.

Let me give you a few examples.
(Disclaimer: These are not comparisons. They are examples)

Since you are a Shia Muslim:
"Why" didn't Rasullulah openly say anything to Aisha when she clearly disobeyed him on his death bed?
When 1 & 2 were caught red handed by Moulana Abizer, "why" didn't Rasulullaw SAW openly call them out?

Since you believe in Rasulullah SAW, you are firm that whatever he did was Haq. Whether or not you know why he did it.

Since you claim to be a follower of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. Prior to 2011, this Forum has only asked the question "why", and I have repeatedly said - If you do not accept Syedna RA as your Dai, there's no point discussing it. Here are some examples:
1) Why relations with Modi
2) Why pomp and glory
3) Why Matam
4) Why Hunting
5) Why did Syedna RA keep KQ in the position of Mazoon after he clearly stated that KQ had made a big mistake by siding with Munafiqeen?
6) Why did SMB Moula accept Badri's khidmat?

etc etc.

If you accepted Syedna RA as your Dai, because you know he was appointed by Nass & Tawqeef and is Ma'soom. You're belief shouldn't change. Regardless of whether you knew why or not. That is what the Misaq and Dawat kitabs teach us.
And for those who did not accept him, are questioning the same till date - and until their belief in Syedna RA is accepted, NO answer will ever suffice.

So. Focus on the primary, fundamental issues first. Everything else is secondary. And only makes since when the primary is clear. These are what we refer to as "Usool".






Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#647

Unread post by Al-Noor » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:27 am

Adam

If you accepted Syedna RA as your Dai, because you know he was appointed by Nass & Tawqeef and is Ma'soom. You're belief shouldn't change. Regardless of whether you knew why or not. That is what the Misaq and Dawat kitabs teach us.
let me translate Adam words in simple and clear language for all...

what he means is if you have given misaaq to muffy morela, then please kindly shut your brain and never ever dare to question any thing, pay your dues to jamat and live without questioning anything.

consider your self life long slave once you are under muffy morela misaaq. let muffy jet set world wide tours on poors money, let him kill animals in african jungles, let him drive expensive cars, let him stay in luxurious hotels and bungalows just dont question him any thing.


While our prophet(s) taught us, always question and learn until you are satisfied with the replies.

Jai
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#648

Unread post by Jai » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:28 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:
fayyaaz wrote:
I went to a waez and the fellow on the takht never went into sujood with one hand on his neck. Shame on him for not following the example set by Moula in Houston. But he did excel in story-telling a la Muffy. This is what he said:

"Ashura na din Madina ma ek zaeef bairo na kaan ma ek khaufnaak rowa no awaz aayo. Jewa ae bairo baahir nikla to dekhe chhe sun ke ek parinda khoon ma lipta hua Husayn no gham kari raya chhe. Woh parinda jiware Aqa Husayn shaheed thaya, tiware Karbala ma mawjood hata ane shahadat nu manzar dekhu. Ane Husayn na khoon ma lapti turat Madina ni taraf rawana thaya. Em garaz ke shahadat ni khabar Madina pohnche."

Hearing this Aalim telling us a gem from ilm of Aale Muhammad, mumineen broke into purjosh maatam wailing and crying "Ya Husayn".

After the waez, I enjoyed a great niyaz, picked up my shoes along with my brain which I had placed on the rack outside and left, fully satisfied.
The distance between Madina and Karbala is 1431 Kms so its anyones guess as to how much time a parinda would take to reach Madina...... the conclusion and authenticity of this gem of a bayan is left for the readers to decide !

http://www.distancesfrom.com/sa/distanc ... 70006.aspx
If the parinda was a pigeon the there is nothing to be surprised. Pigeons can fly 600 to 700 miles in a a single day approx 1000 to 1150 km. So it should have taken somewhere in between 15 hours to 48 hours. The longest flight by a pigeon recorded was 7000 miles which is more than 11000 km. Pigeons are being used for more than 5000 years for delivering messages. They have been used during the wars extensively to deliver messages and some were even awarded, despite injuries they delivered critical messages. In the past the outcome of some wars have been first delivered by pigeons and one such war was battle of waterloo. So it should not be surprising if a pigeon delivered the outcome of Battle of karbala. Infact the fastest and reliable source of communication in the past untill the beginning of 20th century for long distances were the homing/carrier pigeons.

Here are some interesting facts about pigeons
http://www.fbipigeons.com/PIGEON%20FACTS.htm
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homing_pigeon

ajamali
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#649

Unread post by ajamali » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:41 pm

Jai wrote:
ghulam muhammed wrote:
The distance between Madina and Karbala is 1431 Kms so its anyones guess as to how much time a parinda would take to reach Madina...... the conclusion and authenticity of this gem of a bayan is left for the readers to decide !

http://www.distancesfrom.com/sa/distanc ... 70006.aspx
If the parinda was a pigeon the there is nothing to be surprised. Pigeons can fly 600 to 700 miles in a a single day approx 1000 to 1150 km. So it should have taken somewhere in between 15 hours to 48 hours. The longest flight by a pigeon recorded was 7000 miles which is more than 11000 km. Pigeons are being used for more than 5000 years for delivering messages. They have been used during the wars extensively to deliver messages and some were even awarded, despite injuries they delivered critical messages. In the past the outcome of some wars have been first delivered by pigeons and one such war was battle of waterloo. So it should not be surprising if a pigeon delivered the outcome of Battle of karbala. Infact the fastest and reliable source of communication in the past untill the beginning of 20th century for long distances were the homing/carrier pigeons.

Here are some interesting facts about pigeons
http://www.fbipigeons.com/PIGEON%20FACTS.htm
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homing_pigeon
What you did not consider Jai, is that the viscosity of blood would have rendered a blood-soaked-pigeon non-flightworthy. Had the pigeon managed to take off by some miracle, the blood would surely have dried and shed off in flight.

Had the pigeon had been used to send the message as you say, the bayaan na karnar should have not assigned this flying rat the ability to comprehend the import of the the brutal slaughter of an imam!

These kinds of bayaans are ridiculous at their best and take away from the seriousness of the narration.

ajamali
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#650

Unread post by ajamali » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:16 pm

I don't normally speak disrespectfully of my mumin brothers, but it did seem as though there were a disproportionate number of [DELETED] in Houston this year. I was disappointed that the spiritual element was completely missing and emotions were whipped up in a crecendo every few minutes. The fat lady sang over and over again but it never got over...if-you-know-what-I-mean!

I have attended a few Asharas with Burhanuddin Moula and I remember leaving with a deep sense of satisfaction. It was not like that this year. I was very happy to leave Houston and get away from a crowd that was wilfully blind to what seemed like an unveiled play for power. The Badri Lacewala speech was the last straw, so I understand Bain Ruqaiyya's frustration. However she is precisely the kind of person that the crowd was comprised of. No one was holding the leadership accountable...I am very saddened that we are on a path where the only common ground will have to be an ability to ignore the obvious and an ability to accept and embrace situations that in any other walk of life would be aggregious at best and shamefully embarrassing and soul-killing at their worst!

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#651

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:18 pm

In Houston..... Scene after Ashura/Purjosh Matam and Rova Jevu Muh !!

Image

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#652

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:05 pm

watsup msg

Forwarded as Received :

An eye witness view of Houston circus

The tall claims of 25/30 thousand people is a big lie. The vayez were very sweet and different from what we used to hear, in the beginning it looked like marketing of various products like nagarmutha powder, honey, glass, stones etc etc. Then there were praises of MS and his comparison with various animate and inanimate things, how only MS is the person who knows things after death and he says with such ease as if he regularly visits Jannat and returns back. Then daily 3 or 4 junkies use to stand and sing praises of MS and were very abusive towards KQ. Not a single day passed when the above was not done. Ashara over !!

One good thing that many got visas for 10 years, the food was ok and the mawaid staff were very rude. There was shortage of food on certain days, accommodation was average, transportation was also average. A few Houstonites were found complaining that MS should understand the market before announcing Asharas. They were annoyed with the expenses incurred. Badri bhashan was a show stealer and people might forget MS bayans but will NEVER forget this JOKER !

zinger
Posts: 1971
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#653

Unread post by zinger » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:14 am

Adam wrote:
@ZINGER BHAI
Now. Here's the issue:
I have already clarified I felt some of his opinions were wrong, and some were right.

But, we could go on about "Why" this "why" that. But since this isn't a fundamental or primary issue, you could go on discussing forever without any outcome, and you'll still be back at square one.
Why? Because, since you do not believe in Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS as the true and only successor of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA and the 53rd Dai - none of the answers will suffice.
Simply put:
If you did believe in Syedna TUS - your thoughts would be different.
1) If you felt Badri was wrong, you would have approached the Dai or his representatives of the same - and informed them as your responsibility.
2) Your belief in the Dai wouldn't change.

Let's "suppose" you were 100% satisfied with my answer about Badri. Would that change your stance in accepting Syedna Mufaddal TUS? No, absolutely not! So what's the point?

What you should be discussing instead is, who is Syedna Burhanuddin's successor? How does Nass happen, and how did it happen? Is Nass without witnesses valid? etc. Since KQ is lying, doesn't that negate him from being the Dai?

Those are the primary fundamental issues you should be focusing on. Only once that foundation is set, does it make sense talking about Badri Lacewala and Mufaddal Moula's Dawat. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time.

You can go on asking "why" - but you won't get a real answer from me. Because neither am I Badri, nor the Dai, nor anyone present at the time.

Let me give you a few examples.
(Disclaimer: These are not comparisons. They are examples)

Since you are a Shia Muslim:
"Why" didn't Rasullulah openly say anything to Aisha when she clearly disobeyed him on his death bed?
When 1 & 2 were caught red handed by Moulana Abizer, "why" didn't Rasulullaw SAW openly call them out?

Since you believe in Rasulullah SAW, you are firm that whatever he did was Haq. Whether or not you know why he did it.

Since you claim to be a follower of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. Prior to 2011, this Forum has only asked the question "why", and I have repeatedly said - If you do not accept Syedna RA as your Dai, there's no point discussing it. Here are some examples:
1) Why relations with Modi
2) Why pomp and glory
3) Why Matam
4) Why Hunting
5) Why did Syedna RA keep KQ in the position of Mazoon after he clearly stated that KQ had made a big mistake by siding with Munafiqeen?
6) Why did SMB Moula accept Badri's khidmat?

etc etc.

If you accepted Syedna RA as your Dai, because you know he was appointed by Nass & Tawqeef and is Ma'soom. You're belief shouldn't change. Regardless of whether you knew why or not. That is what the Misaq and Dawat kitabs teach us.
And for those who did not accept him, are questioning the same till date - and until their belief in Syedna RA is accepted, NO answer will ever suffice.

So. Focus on the primary, fundamental issues first. Everything else is secondary. And only makes since when the primary is clear. These are what we refer to as "Usool".





Adam bhai, i have already given you my reply in PM. and yes, many of the things that you have said about me, i agree.

the decision is yours now, if you wish to continue the discussion with me or not. maybe you might see me as an opponent now, now that i have declared my beliefs. but i will still view you as a brother

Jai
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#654

Unread post by Jai » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:09 am

ajamali wrote:
What you did not consider Jai, is that the viscosity of blood would have rendered a blood-soaked-pigeon non-flightworthy.
Bro you dont need to consider blood type, haemoglobin, viscosty test instead simply buy a white pigeon color it with fresh blood and fly it off. Even easier try going to a shia juloos where white pigeons and dove are colored in fresh blood and flown. You will get your answer.

Had the pigeon managed to take off by some miracle, the blood would surely have dried and shed off in flight.
I agree if the blood was of sinners like us then yes it would have dried. This is the blood of Mazloom and Masoom whose sacredness turned khak of Karbala into khak e shifa. Hussain a.s. Sacred blood is fresh till date and will remain fresh till qayamat. Kindly read the story of noble prophet Yahya a.s.. Whose blood started boiling wherever it fell. A sand hill was erected over it but the blood kept flowing from it till the time his a.s death was avenged.

Had the pigeon had been used to send the message as you say, the bayaan na karnar should have not assigned this flying rat the ability to comprehend the import of the the brutal slaughter of an imam!
Bro whatever you meant. My only purpose was to inform the readers that dont jump to conclusions quickly. Sometimes things may sound ridiculous only due to our lack of knowledge.

These kinds of bayaans are ridiculous at their best and take away from the seriousness of the narration.
There were several events and personal experiences at different geographical locations on the day of ashura narrated by individuals and groups and were recorded and are present in the historical books. Lecturers choose to narrate different stories based on the topic they are giving lecture on. so it is quite common among all sorts of lecturers and if the bayaan karnaar has a Good command then instead of taking away it can add to the seriousness.
My answers in green

Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#655

Unread post by Al-Noor » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:24 am

It is useless to debate on this and waste and confuse readers, If Muhammed(s) can break moon in two parts, ofcourse a pigeon can fly from karbala to Medina with blood, as believer please do not get into some thing which is not in ur understanding, better lets concentrate to unmask yazid of today's world and ayyashi and filth he is spreading in world.

Maqbool
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#656

Unread post by Maqbool » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:54 am

Adam is a politician like those who come on TV channel for discussion and instead of giving answer to the point they will always drag the opposition in between and what wrong is done by the opposition.

Ruqaiya is a confused lady. Who oppose the wrong doing of Badri Lacewala but do not see any wrong in SMS.

Actually what Badri Lacewala has said is what SMS wanted. It is the beginning. Now Amil and all other clergies will start teaching on the same line what Badri has said. And after few years everybody will be trained to believe that no one in panjatan and ehl e bait was superior then SMS (na-aujobillah).

This has happened in the past. God of earth is one example. The use of masjid for other purpose then Namaj is another one. There are many.

Dawoodi Bohras are trained like this. Though they are strong believer of Aqa Husein and other panjatan pak, they will never see anything wrong what SMS or his close associate says, even it is against Panjatan pak.

Badri has been permitted to give lecture, even if SMS was not present the other top brass were. Why he was not stopped immediately? Why in Majlis e Husein cursing of KQ is allowed. If from this point he was stopped the other blasphemy would have not followed. The Bohras who were present at the venue, no one has taken objection or left the venue in protest. This shows no one care about respect of Panjaatan pak.

So much has happened, not even a word from SMS has come against this guy. If SMS is true lover of Panjatan Pak, he would have thrown away from the dawat and would have declared barat on him.

It is really shame that Adam is defending Badri as well SMS. What badri has said should have been condemned outright without any string. But this politician Adam is defending on certain points and in comparison he drags KQ in between. Mr Adam come clean and first and foremost condemns whatever is said in the Majlis e Husein. If SMS in not taking action on this blasphemy he also must be condemned and do barat with him. You always say that you are firm believer. Now show us whose believer you are.

I request all Dawoodi Bohras, at least please show some respect towards which you believe and cry for all over the year that is AQA HUSEIN. His and other Panjatan pak members’ doing during their life time has been challenge and attributed to one man that is SMS. Rise from your fear and this is the time to defend your bellowed Husein a.s..
Let us condemn together and make barat to this Badri guy.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#657

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:14 am

Seriousness of Karbala event is undermined by its gross commercialization by anyone. marsiya CDs and rights are sold, orators charge hefty amount to make the most of muharram time and ofcourse the great bohra circus takes a new spin on the whole ashara mubarak carnival.

going deeper, orators whip up human emotions using thier speech techniques. there are many creative shia orators who make people go in tears with thier choices of words, drawing comparisons with humanly pain and grief that Imam hussein, his family and friends endured. this is fine and artistic in its own ways.

kothari abde orators are loud and pompous. mostly indulging in melodrama, hysteria and drumming up grief, . funnily, in one the waaz during this muharram. an amil in kuwait, told people to howl, yell in grief, cry out loud, kalaa-wala karo, rova ma sharmaao naa .. zorr zoor thi rovo .. and he went on to give a sample of wailing .. by howling his cries loudly for couple of seconds .. it was astonishingly hilarious and sadly upsetting to see, how the level of the zikr of gam-e-hussein has fallen. Orchestrated maatam be it by bohras or shia is yet another ritualized expression of grief, that undermines seriousness of gam-e-hussein.

IMO, a sober heart touching marsiya / noha sung with utmost sincerity, zikr of gam-e-hussein, karbala incident plainly with words that best expresses human endeavor towards justice, determination and righteousness without supernatural exaggeration. for a simple, sane minded person, struggles of imam hussein, his family and friends is sufficient to roll tears of sincerity down the cheek. there could be turbulent waves of grief hitting in the heart, yet calm and composed expression of grief could be the best way to respect sacrifice of Hussein and shohdaahs and not some loud circled dancing frenzy of maatam with people competing with each other to beat the loudest, bleed the most and within seconds run for faakera jaman !

Bolta ghoda, blood soaked bird, bleeding walls, red sky , end moment mojizaas etc suit more for those who wants to be amazed and bewildered to believe in simple yet profound message of Imam hussein's sacrifice.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#658

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:23 am

Maqbool wrote:It is really shame that Adam is defending Badri as well SMS. What badri has said should have been condemned outright without any string. But this politician Adam is defending on certain points and in comparison he drags KQ in between. Mr Adam come clean and first and foremost condemns whatever is said in the Majlis e Husein. If SMS in not taking action on this blasphemy he also must be condemned and do barat with him. You always say that you are firm believer. Now show us whose believer you are..
Good points maqbool saab.
Adam in his opinion, expressed that badri lacewala will be / should be informed of his wrong words .. wow .. informed ? he ranted those words in public, he is a grown ass man, matured enough to understand what he was vomiting. Instead of reprimanding him and getting a correctional apology in public he should be informed. Informed how and what .. and what is he gonna do about I ? is it gonna be like .

“Hey badri .. you said some wrong stuff man ! .. don’t do it next time “

Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#659

Unread post by Al-Noor » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:19 am

Adam is a politician like those who come on TV channel for discussion and instead of giving answer to the point they will always drag the opposition in between and what wrong is done by the opposition.
well said Maqbool bhai, this guy Adam must have read dawat books and yet the way he behaves like an idiot is astonishing to me, after so much ilm if you cant differentiate black from white all your life is just waste.
Last edited by Al-Noor on Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ruqaiyya
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:32 pm

Re: Ashara Oppression 2015

#660

Unread post by Ruqaiyya » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:23 am

humanbeing wrote:
Maqbool wrote:It is really shame that Adam is defending Badri as well SMS. What badri has said should have been condemned outright without any string. But this politician Adam is defending on certain points and in comparison he drags KQ in between. Mr Adam come clean and first and foremost condemns whatever is said in the Majlis e Husein. If SMS in not taking action on this blasphemy he also must be condemned and do barat with him. You always say that you are firm believer. Now show us whose believer you are..
Good points maqbool saab.
Adam in his opinion, expressed that badri lacewala will be / should be informed of his wrong words .. wow .. informed ? he ranted those words in public, he is a grown ass man, matured enough to understand what he was vomiting. Instead of reprimanding him and getting a correctional apology in public he should be informed. Informed how and what .. and what is he gonna do about I ? is it gonna be like .

“Hey badri .. you said some wrong stuff man ! .. don’t do it next time “
Wallah I am telling, there is no speaker in the history of Dawat like Badri Lacewala I have ever seen or heard,
He has spoken too much just too much...Saglu side maa muki didu, deen ni buniyaad halaawi naakhi, agar 10 minutes bija aa badri na hath maa mic rahi jaatey tou ALLAH s.w.t nu rutbey AQA MAULA t.u.s ne aapi detey,

Su tarbiyat che waah, su aqeedo che badri no,
Impossible to forget his speech throughout of my life, I am sending his ridiculous speech to the upper system one by one.

Badri bhai tamney sagla saamne muaafi maangi ne kehwu parhsey ke AMEERUL MOMINEEN a.s si comparison aa duniya maa koi nu na thayi sakey, je meraaj ni raatein RASOOLULLAH s.a.w si qabl arsh par maujood hoyi tamey ehna kitna naanha kari naakha, kaho cho ke ALI to fakat madina maa jaman aapta apna AQA MAULA tus to tamaam aalam ne aapey che.

I am injured by this like anything!