No Truth in Religion

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
HMALAK
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:31 am

No Truth in Religion

#1

Unread post by HMALAK » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:25 am

No Truth in Religion

The article is based on my personal belief, faith and experience. Please excuse if it seems irrelevant. Thanks in advance for reading.

I have been a faithful follower of the Dawoodi Bohra faith for most of my life. Always assumed the Dai's infallibility and as a result worshiped every word uttered by him and his representatives. Destiny plays a big part in one's life. Through an unplanned series of events, I joined a multinational company when I was 18 and out of the blue, I was now exposed to people belonging to different faiths, cultures and sensibilities. Although steadfast and firm in my beliefs, I began to get intrigued by how others lived their lives, what influence culture, money, education, religion, etc had on their lives.

Few years later, through another series of unlikely events, I happened to meet a childhood acquaintance over a weekend. Catching up, he brought up the conversation of how important it was for SMB to appoint SMS as the heir apparent in front of the entire jamaat. Believe it or not, until that point, I had no idea of the possible divide and the contention issue. Although my faith was strong, the conversation got me interested and I now wanted to know more. Having read several articles, forums and blogs for a few years in combination with exposure to different cultures I had through my work experience, the amazing charade became more and more obvious every day.

Every practice of the Dai and Kothar for about a century now; on an objective and unbiased analysis presents an obvious picture of extortion and oppression. Over the last century there have been several improvements in education, science, media and communication. A large proportion of the Bohra population today are educated people; people who can differentiate black from white and choose between right and wrong. Logically speaking, the crowds and hoards of people believing in the Kothar and its schemes should have decreased or perished with time. Additionally, rebellions from time to time have brought to light the extent of devastation that the administrators of our community have caused to humanity. Yet, there is no decrease in the faith that the Dai inspires from the community. Why?

From time to time, one hears people talk about the community. There are few who reason, while there are tons who are strictly governed by blind faith. Each resorts to calling the other all sorts of names, popularly 'brain dead abdes' & 'munafekeens'. Come to think of it, neither 'the abde' nor 'the munafekeen' is wrong. It is incorrect to assume that intelligence can/should influence faith in general. Faith and trust are characteristics that are deep rooted in human DNA. An offspring knows instinctively to trust its parents. When a child is tossed up in the air, the natural reaction is a smile and not fear. We learn very early in our lives to have trust and faith in our elders. But, what drives this faith in religion and why does it override intelligence?

The faith and the following of the so called 'abdes' stems from a variety of factors. Kids in our community are enrolled into 'madresas' at a very early age and children are fed concepts of the Dai's infallibility. These are intelligent human beings who have been influenced at a very early stage in life. Think about the lessons that they have learnt; entrance to heaven is at the helm of the Dai's tears and Dua, attending and listening to Dai's sermons takes precedence over examinations, business, health and age, wajebaat and all charity donated needs to be routed through the Kothar, your religion does not entertain questioning of any nature, the Quran that is the key to your religion cannot be truly interpreted without the wisdom of the Dai, just follow- do not ask. Off course one would argue that an intelligent human being would question these atrocious teachings, but these are beings who have been systematically conditioned, such that their intelligence is negated when it comes to religion. There are also ones at the fence that generally believe that the Kothar is corrupt while the Dai is either oblivious to the truth or is waiting for the right time to take action.

Reading folks arguing on several forum and otherwise is heart breaking. The unnecessary calling of names shows the deplorable state of affairs we have reached in our hearts and minds. I often read discussions on threads go haywire and people attack the individual rather than discuss the thought with all kinds of foul language. Surely, no religion advocates this kind of name calling. I agree that is heart wrenching to watch folks giving in to blasphemy and indulgence, but one has to understand that they are driven by their own belief and conviction. They have a faith, and they believe strongly in it, it is no different from someone who follows another religion totally. No matter how much you try to convince them or reason with them, it’s completely futile, because they are driven by their faith. Unless, they get a call from their inner self, everything one does to open their eyes, seems like an act of oppression to them. In the meantime, demeaning them or trying to belittle them is only an act that can take you away from them.

I know as well as anyone else what it feels like. I have a family and I have friends within the community. My family understand my perspective but can’t put up with it. When they happened to read a previous post of mine (on this forum), they were in shock and disbelief! My mother stopped talking to me for a while and tried to persuade me to return to the 'right' (SMS) track. My friends, who are firm believers hold all kinds of grudges against me just because I did not participate in all the festivities surrounding the nass, the the event surrounding SMB's death and the celebration of the of SMS' milad. I haven't even yet told them about my convictions! Just the fact that I don't celebrate SMS, is enough for them to condemn me. These are people that I have grown up with, people who understand who I am and accept me as a man with a kind heart and an above average intelligence. I am somebody that they have deep emotional connect with, yet are willing to forego me for the love of a maula, a man who they barely know about and are willing to worship in spite of the evident blasphemy.

Is it right for me to hate them back? Condemn their faith, their beliefs, because they don't concur with mine. May be it is, but how about I talk things within the realms of religion that are completely undisputed? Promote peace, harmony, service, tolerance, love and friendship among fellowmen. SKQ may or may not be on the right path, only time will tell. In all likelihood, both clans will settle peacefully in the near future with their own followings. It is important that we as human beings do not let human relations be forgotten and destroyed in the name of religion. No matter where we may be tomorrow, we were brothers and sisters until yesterday. Let's try to not forget that and at least be respectful to one another.

Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#2

Unread post by Al-Noor » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:15 am

If you are following false leaders you are bound to get disappointed, make those people your leader and learn Islam from them who have no interest in making money and who practices what they preaches, and they live simple and sober.

The hardest part is to find those people and then follow them....but we already have ahlul bayt to guide us.

DisillusionedDB
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:20 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#3

Unread post by DisillusionedDB » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:41 am

Hmalak, very well written article. I agree with you.

zinger
Posts: 2203
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#4

Unread post by zinger » Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:17 am

[quote by Hmalak DELETED By Moderators for sake of brevity of post]

Admin, it is times like this when we so sorely miss the like button.

Hmalak, even if we did have the like button, i would have failed my duty. i would have wanted to give 10, even a hundred likes to your article. so i hope this suffices for now...

LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE......LIKE...LIKE...
LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE......LIKE...LIKE...
LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE......LIKE...LIKE...
LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE......LIKE...LIKE...
LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE......LIKE...LIKE...
LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE......LIKE...LIKE...
LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE......LIKE...LIKE...
LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE......LIKE...LIKE...
LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE......LIKE...LIKE...
LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE...LIKE......LIKE...LIKE...

Thats 100 likes for your post friend Hmalak :)

Your post has so many insights and hidden truths that i felt like you were telling my story in your words

DisillusionedDB
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:20 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#5

Unread post by DisillusionedDB » Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:58 am

zinger wrote: Your post has so many insights and hidden truths that i felt like you were telling my story in your words
Ditto. But I had thorns of doubt since my late teen years but never ventured to learn more about what Islam is all about. That happened a decade + ago and since then there has been no looking back.

zinger
Posts: 2203
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#6

Unread post by zinger » Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:23 am

DisillusionedDB wrote:
zinger wrote: Your post has so many insights and hidden truths that i felt like you were telling my story in your words
Ditto. But I had thorns of doubt since my late teen years but never ventured to learn more about what Islam is all about. That happened a decade + ago and since then there has been no looking back.
to be honest, in my case, my doubts started to appear after the nuss, and they have only been affirmed over time.

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#7

Unread post by asad » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:45 am

[quote by Hmalak DELETED By Moderators for sake of brevity of post]

Br. HMALAK,

Excellent write up. You are not alone and a lot of people who were ardent followers of SMB have left Bohri deen after seeing MS and his charade. As you have mentioned in the write up, even i am amazed why well educated people cant see through the lies, deception and corruption of the Kothar and Syedna. But than i thought when i used to believe in SMB than also i was educated and learned in worldly or Deeny affairs so why i was not able to see through it. So in the end as Allah has said in Quran, no one can give Taufeeq except Allah. So we can only pray that these Bohra people get Taufeeq and we can continue with our write ups and expose Syedna and Kothar for what they really are. Because believe me this forum has affected many individuals and is a very important tool for free dissemination of information and knowledge.

dawedaar
Posts: 844
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:40 pm

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#8

Unread post by dawedaar » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:14 am

Well written bro HMALAK but Bohra community is all about power games, business and money and in business, there are no friends, emotions, feelings, loved ones whatsoever... The Kothar in all attempts to protect its kingdom n existence have poisoned the community people to such an extent that they have become zombie and used as pawns by the Kothar. How much ever u try to love such kind of people, they r not gonna reciprocate! You need to be human to love and be loved!
HMALAK wrote:No Truth in Religion DELETED BY MODERATORS for sake of brevity]
.[/color]

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#9

Unread post by think » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:55 pm

wishful thinking. h malak. you are asking normal humans to be kind and helpful and respect etc. Take the examples of the Rasool or jesus. They gave their all and yet it was one of the disciples of jesus that gave jesus away and the rasool gave his entire family and even the grand children Hassan and Hussain to better humanity but history is before you. They(messangers of Allah) all taught to be kind and honest etc and that was deen and islaam . Until and unless religion is taught for its true purpose to what it is supposed to achieve, back biting and fueds amongst brothers and parents and families will be on going till some one is in real pain and realises that none can come to his or her recourse than their own family. No mulla or moula or any other wil come to his rescue. suffice it to say , correct education needsw to be departed right from the tender age other wise this bohri religion will be nothing less than lambs at the slaughter house of the kothar mafia.I was sahocked to see a 85 year old father do salam and kiss the hand of his own 16 year old son just because he had studied in the bohri jamia . such is the brain washing.

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 764
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#10

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:31 pm

HMALAK wrote:No Truth in Religion [DELETED By Moderators for sake of brevity of post]
Nice right up, brother HMALAK. I hope that what you said above happens in the Bohra community. As of now, it does not appear that we are heading in that direction.

HMALAK
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:31 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#11

Unread post by HMALAK » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:24 am

In my childhood I was taught about the infallibility of the Dai and I was getting ourselves on that way. It was after I became adult I got to know about the reality. We are always influenced by the people around us till we attain adulthood. I did not follow anyone, I was forced or taught to. And I am not regretting following anyone, in fact the present Dai (aka Ruler) should get disappointed as their abdes are stopping to follow them.
Al-Noor wrote:If you are following false leaders you are bound to get disappointed, make those people your leader and learn Islam from them who have no interest in making money and who practices what they preaches, and they live simple and sober.

The hardest part is to find those people and then follow them....but we already have ahlul bayt to guide us.

HMALAK
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:31 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#12

Unread post by HMALAK » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:38 am

Brother Zinger,
This is the story of every Man Next door in the community. I think Majority of the men of the community are following because the women in the community make them by the role of the Mother, Wife, Sister etc. There are only some men who are ardent followers for which they probably get something in return.
But then I'm happy that you finally agreed that you are quite disturbed with things going wrong in the community.
And for your 100 likes, Thank you Brother. :)

[quote by zinger DELETED for sake of brevity]

HMALAK
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:31 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#13

Unread post by HMALAK » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:21 am

Brother Asad,
I am a young man of this generation, and I think that SMS and the Kothar have got the feeling that the newer generation will not be paying them or giving them the importance that they are being given by the people now. They are trying so hard for this in the school that I feel sometimes astonished by the fact that how can somebody even think about this. I will give you an example.
There is a school named Jamali English School in Dahod. There is actually a Parda between a class and Girls and Boys sit on either section. Even the Pickup Vans are different for Boys and Girls. I mean this children will never grow up if they are not allowed to talk with the opposite gender. I think this is the reason why there is so problems regarding the gender inequality.

I am sure I'm never going to keep my ward/daughter in any of these school as I don't want him/her to get engaged into the caste based education and want that he/she should learn good education without any barriers.
asad wrote:

Br. HMALAK,

Excellent write up. You are not alone and a lot of people who were ardent followers of SMB have left Bohri deen after seeing MS and his charade. As you have mentioned in the write up, even i am amazed why well educated people cant see through the lies, deception and corruption of the Kothar and Syedna. But than i thought when i used to believe in SMB than also i was educated and learned in worldly or Deeny affairs so why i was not able to see through it. So in the end as Allah has said in Quran, no one can give Taufeeq except Allah. So we can only pray that these Bohra people get Taufeeq and we can continue with our write ups and expose Syedna and Kothar for what they really are. Because believe me this forum has affected many individuals and is a very important tool for free dissemination of information and knowledge.

HMALAK
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:31 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#14

Unread post by HMALAK » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:34 am

Brother Dawedaar,
Bohra community is not about power games, business and money. It is the Kothar and related people who have made it that. There are always antisocial people in every community. We have Kothar in ours community. Problem is, the people who in the context of Faith have become blind and they don't see anything but Dai. They think that Aamil or a Shehzada is corrupt. Dai will take care on the right time. But it is not like that. If there is a Tax fraud in the company, no executives or officials are convicted, it is the Chairman/MD which is convicted and sentenced. Similarly, the ultimate responsibility is of Dai because he is the Care Taker of the community.
There are so many people who know that SMS is wrong in many things but they don't come out because of whatever reasons. It's high time that all of the community stay united and come out against Kothar.
dawedaar wrote:Well written bro HMALAK but Bohra community is all about power games, business and money and in business, there are no friends, emotions, feelings, loved ones whatsoever... The Kothar in all attempts to protect its kingdom n existence have poisoned the community people to such an extent that they have become zombie and used as pawns by the Kothar. How much ever u try to love such kind of people, they r not gonna reciprocate! You need to be human to love and be loved!
HMALAK wrote:No Truth in Religion DELETED BY MODERATORS for sake of brevity]
.[/color]

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: No Truth in Religion

#15

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:43 am

Bro Hmalak

A simple sane minded free thinker would definately connect with your write up. your observation on brainwashing bohras from young age is so accurate. they practice gender segregation to portray themselves to follow pristine islamic principles on lines with arabs. there are more alarming practices than gender segregation going on in madrassa. kids are fed with non stop bull shit of self glorification of DAI and his pesty royal family and kothari pile ons .. these abdes are going to assure continuity of flattery, slavery and prosperity of kothari [DELETED] kothar is investing for their bright future by diminishing the future of these kids. shame !

these [DELETED] squeeze monies out of these kids too .. wajebaat and many other such payouts. these kids are props used in glorification of Muffy maula !

HMALAK
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:31 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#16

Unread post by HMALAK » Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:41 am

Brother Think,
I would like to quote an incident. I had met with SMS in a city and I addressed him not as Maula, and only as Saheb. It is as recent as a month. The people around him were bewildered but I did not stop calling him Sahab.
What approach I follow is if they have achieved a higher rank in Deen, I have achieved higher position in my Field. I am no less than a Shaikh or Mulla in any which way. I see with this approach. Anybody can see with this approach.
And as far as normal human being or a normal Bohra is concern, majority of the people are humble. Its because of one's own deeds he is disrespected.
think wrote:wishful thinking. h malak. you are asking normal humans to be kind and helpful and respect etc. Take the examples of the Rasool or jesus. They gave their all and yet it was one of the disciples of jesus that gave jesus away and the rasool gave his entire family and even the grand children Hassan and Hussain to better humanity but history is before you. They(messangers of Allah) all taught to be kind and honest etc and that was deen and islaam . Until and unless religion is taught for its true purpose to what it is supposed to achieve, back biting and fueds amongst brothers and parents and families will be on going till some one is in real pain and realises that none can come to his or her recourse than their own family. No mulla or moula or any other wil come to his rescue. suffice it to say , correct education needsw to be departed right from the tender age other wise this bohri religion will be nothing less than lambs at the slaughter house of the kothar mafia.I was sahocked to see a 85 year old father do salam and kiss the hand of his own 16 year old son just because he had studied in the bohri jamia . such is the brain washing.

HMALAK
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:31 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin (and related topics) - 2015

#17

Unread post by HMALAK » Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:46 am

Brother DisillusionedDB
Thank you for reading. I am sure majority of the people agree and want to do something because of this. I will be happy if I can change even 1 soul. That will be my achievement.
DisillusionedDB wrote:Hmalak, very well written article. I agree with you.

HMALAK
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:31 am

Re: No Truth in Religion

#18

Unread post by HMALAK » Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:56 am

Brother Humanbeing
I know about the things which you talked in your post. With the write up I wanted to open the eyes of the parents. I can not make the children understand. If the parents decide they can make their children's future bright. I am sure the word will spread and people will come out ogether one day
humanbeing wrote:Bro Hmalak

A simple sane minded free thinker would definately connect with your write up. your observation on brainwashing bohras from young age is so accurate. they practice gender segregation to portray themselves to follow pristine islamic principles on lines with arabs. there are more alarming practices than gender segregation going on in madrassa. kids are fed with non stop bull shit of self glorification of DAI and his pesty royal family and kothari pile ons .. these abdes are going to assure continuity of flattery, slavery and prosperity of kothari [DELETED] kothar is investing for their bright future by diminishing the future of these kids. shame !

these [DELETED] squeeze monies out of these kids too .. wajebaat and many other such payouts. these kids are props used in glorification of Muffy maula !