Reform needed

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Siddiqua
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:05 am

Reform needed

#1

Unread post by Siddiqua » Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:41 am

Udaipur's reformist in their procession on 10th moharram carries steel hand-cut out over pipe (panja) and they garland it with rose. Why they do this? It is lifeless object and it cannot feel or pray, then why reformist carry it? Is their act islamic or otherwise? Orthodox bohras do not carry such panja, do they?

Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Reform needed

#2

Unread post by Al-Noor » Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:56 am

panja or no panja doesnt matters community is in bigger trouble then these things.

Kaka Akela
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Reform needed

#3

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:36 pm

Siddiqua ben: How is that any different than Abde (s) worshipping in front of the Dai's picture or touching and kissing the feet on the picture of the Dai before leaving home. Yes, I agree Reform is needed.

dawedaar
Posts: 844
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:40 pm

Re: Reform needed

#4

Unread post by dawedaar » Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:03 pm

Wow, when reformist practices are questioned, you easily say, 'doesn't matter'. I am sure if the abdes had done so, there would be a long comment from you. Why such double standard?
Al-Noor wrote:panja or no panja doesnt matters community is in bigger trouble then these things.

Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Reform needed

#5

Unread post by Al-Noor » Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:47 pm

dawedaar wrote:Wow, when reformist practices are questioned, you easily say, 'doesn't matter'. I am sure if the abdes had done so, there would be a long comment from you. Why such double standard?
Al-Noor wrote:panja or no panja doesnt matters community is in bigger trouble then these things.
I dont even know who are reformist here and what they do, panja is seen in shia juloos so they might have adopted it, and it really doesnt matters....so now better do some thing uselful.

Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Reform needed

#6

Unread post by Al-Noor » Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:51 pm

islam and bohra community dont need any reform, its just that the leader should stop living luxurious life do more for poor and come back to life style of ahlul bayt and should try to act genuinely for people and Islam. thats it. every thing is good if this happens.

Dumbledore
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:30 am

Re: Reform needed

#7

Unread post by Dumbledore » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:17 am

Siddiqa ben

it is called "Alam"...and in all shia moharram juloos you can find alam...i think you have not been to any shia Ashara majlis or visit mehfil e shahe khorasan at abbas alamdar chowk dongri .... many Bohras visit mehfil regularly for ziyarat as you go to ziyarat of raudat tahera bhendi bazaar.

Bohras call themselves shia dawoodi bohras but are far far away from the shia fiqh... they are happy with the cult....

FYI i consider myself as just muslim not attached to any school of thoughts...

Siddiqua
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:05 am

Re: Reform needed

#8

Unread post by Siddiqua » Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:55 am

Dumbledore, al noor, and others - This "alam" worshipping is part of blacky-shia's but certainly it is not part of bohra shias. The reformist bohras are "bohra shia" and not blacky-shia. Why that "alam" is garlanded with rose? Why blacky-shia kiss it - does that metallic thing feel that kiss and roses over it? Above is not the part of bohras established practices, reformist have gone corrupt and they need to reform by stopping this idol-worshipping.

Kaka, the photo worship of mola's photo by orthodox bohras is as bad as reformist worship of "alam" (panja). Both should be corrected. But it seems current leaders of reformist in Udaipur are illiterate about their own religion or they are not pursuing bohra religion any more.

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Reform needed

#9

Unread post by seeker110 » Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:58 pm

Siddiqua behan wrote "current leaders of reformist in Udaipur are illiterate about their own religion or they are not pursuing bohra religion any more"

How did you come to this conclusion. How many elder you have talked to to determine their lack of deeny knowledge. I have listened to bits and pieces from the Dai's waeez. He does seem to be an illitrate and extremely greedy person, like his father and his father before him.

think_for_yourself
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Reform needed

#10

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:41 pm

What's a blacky Shia?

Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Reform needed

#11

Unread post by Al-Noor » Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:24 pm

blacky-shia's


this shows your level of respect for other muslemin....any ways alam is part of juloos and symbolic and no one worships it. now get a life and look at unislamic and stinky life of present bohra leader and condemn it.

Dumbledore
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:30 am

Re: Reform needed

#12

Unread post by Dumbledore » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:06 am

White pegions a.k.a. Abdes call other shias as blacky...

bohra ladies use to wear black burha called khes as i learnt from elders, during tahir saifuddin mola time...later it changed to color ful ridas and white std...ALM procession was also done during that era...later it stopped...Bohras can be seen t mughliya musjid umer khari at mumbai to listen takreer or mirza muhammed athar and tv stets were plced all over bhindi bzaar lane for people to her the sermons...later there was na from kuthar to Bohras not to ttend or listen the shia sermons.

Siddiqua
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:05 am

Re: Reform needed

#13

Unread post by Siddiqua » Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:29 pm

Al-Noor wrote:alam is part of juloos and symbolic and no one worships it. [/color]
Your people hang rose garland over it, and kiss it! Can that metal hand feel you have wasted garland over it? No. Can it feel your kisses? No. But your Ithna Asheri community still does garlanding and kissing to a non-living thing which has no sanctions of Islam hence, it is indeed akin to Ithna Asheri worshiping the metal hand.

Unfortunately the ignorant leaders of Udaipur reform movement are conned by the agents of Ithna Asheri and poisoned Reformist to practice above idol-worshiping. Thus reform are strongly and urgently needed in Udaipur reform movement.

Above wrong practice of Udaipur reformist cannot be negated and white-washed by citing the wrongs of orthodox bohras doing similar wrongs with Syyedna sahab.

Al-Noor
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:55 am

Re: Reform needed

#14

Unread post by Al-Noor » Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:02 am

Siddiqua wrote:
Al-Noor wrote:alam is part of juloos and symbolic and no one worships it. [/color]
Your people hang rose garland over it, and kiss it! Can that metal hand feel you have wasted garland over it? No. Can it feel your kisses? No. But your Ithna Asheri community still does garlanding and kissing to a non-living thing which has no sanctions of Islam hence, it is indeed akin to Ithna Asheri worshiping the metal hand.

Unfortunately the ignorant leaders of Udaipur reform movement are conned by the agents of Ithna Asheri and poisoned Reformist to practice above idol-worshiping. Thus reform are strongly and urgently needed in Udaipur reform movement.

Above wrong practice of Udaipur reformist cannot be negated and white-washed by citing the wrongs of orthodox bohras doing similar wrongs with Syyedna sahab.
there are so many flaws in your whole post I dont think it is worth to waste time on you...only one advice learn learn and learn...