Next Destination - Germany

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
jamanpasand
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:01 am

Next Destination - Germany

#1

Unread post by jamanpasand » Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:43 pm

Is the health crises of Syedna over ?
November 2, he was brought to Masjid in apparent discomfort.
November 20, he was shifted to Germany. This news item on munineen.org. carries two old pictures. No airport pictures either at London airport or at Germany airport.
Something is wrong behind the scene.

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Next Destination - Germany

#2

Unread post by accountability » Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:23 am

well jp it is an open secret that syedna's family has always kept his health information secret. because a divinely created myth around him, does not even allow him to act normally like other person. the myth is that he is above person, so now in this age, and destablizing health, has posed lots of questions. the answer to which are very complex. sydna's immediate family, and his off springs are no intelicts. so they may not have the complex answers. right now the struggle between groups is on the peak. everyone may trying to protect their own intrest. the whole setup is based on mythological values, once the main character from mythology disappears, the myth falls. it would be very difficult to create the same myth around any other person. even they come up with consensus candidate, the myth and aura will be gone. lets hope for the good of our community.

tahir
Posts: 1229
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Next Destination - Germany

#3

Unread post by tahir » Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:04 am

once the main character from mythology disappears, the myth falls. it would be very difficult to create the same myth around any other person. even they come up with consensus candidate, the myth and aura will be gone. lets hope for the good of our community.
acc'bility,
You are underestimating the power of kothari PR and way overestimating bohri intelligence. Believe me, they can create the same myth and divine aura around a donkey if they ever have to. The "main character from mythology", as you put it, has actually a very little role to play in the game.

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: Next Destination - Germany

#4

Unread post by Alislam » Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:48 am

The new myth character will again be a puppet with lots of namesake 'Aura'.

The main issue would be who gets what, from among the various contenders.

A slight indication was there when Taha Bhaisab (son of notorious Qasim bhaisab)was in a southern city of india enquiring about posh properties to make his headquaters in this city and control his loot area ie., the south of india.

Likewise, control areas must have been divided among all the royals and when all this is settled, the new puppet leader will be publically announced.

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Next Destination - Germany

#5

Unread post by accountability » Thu Nov 24, 2005 2:36 pm

Tahir, I agree with you about the PR power of our jamat. as i have mentioned earlier that after their extravagant lifestyle, the next big expense is PR. during the while they have made contacts in every field of life. especially in india and pakistan. they have successfully created a blanket of peace and tranquility around syedna saheb's personality. their power lies in two things. a) the ability to manipulate the religion. b) the ability to keep alive the sources of wealth by indoctrinating the most bizzare setup to collect taxes in the history of religion. though they do not poccess the law enforcement apparatus, but still they have created in every country a state in state.
average bohra unable to understand the complicacy of the mechanism, and entrapped into so many family and social bindings, that it makes for individually impossible to challange a sophisticated pseduo state machinery. now here tahir comes some of us, if we are able to just put a little dent in this scheme, for future times it will create big holes. and i found that it is not so difficult to do, just a right remark or a right question at the right time serves the purpose. but it should be put gently and inteligently. this site is playing a very good role. but due to some overzealous and fanatic elements, some distractions occur. i would urge everyone on this site, who wants to participate in constructive manner, should refrain from abuse, allegations and counter allegations etc. morever some regular member brings some subjects that are either inrelated or out of topics. if we see language that was used against you by a fanatic, we should all condemn this. but refrain from answering and be dragged into the fiasco.
above all our community while adhering to the basic tenets of our religion, should practice some autonomy in their private life. the myth that only bohras will go to heaven, or are guarateed heaven just becasue they were born in this community. our average person is not very knowledgeable, therefore he is a believer not the believer, if he is explained without making him feel uncomfortable about his religion, he may subscribe to the facts. if he is explained logically, that aside being born in a bohra family, and to waaz, he also needs good deeds, and vitues, the biggest of all is humanity and caring for the fellow being. there are no shehzadas and kings anymore. religon and god have not made any one king or prince, all the prophets and messengers from Allah never claimed to be the king or their sons and daughters prince and princes. kings are and were usurpers, they had and have no legitimacy, to rule over the fellow being, in any of the divine books including Quran , Allah always said that he sent messengers and prophets, who could preach his message to the common folks, but he never said that he has sent down kings to rule over you, and you should submit to his whims, instead the message was always very clear, that these are the messenger and you should submit to Allah, and not even to his prophets. all the prophets who were sent claimed only messenger status, and they also submitted to Allah's will. now if the prophets and messengers are to submit to Allah's will, and they did not proclaim any right whatsoever, to rule Allah's creation, then a sage or spritual leader can not claim, that he has the right to rule. Prophets were the messengers of Allah, so even he cannot claim that he is a messenger, all virtous and pious people in the world had and have been doing is to call Allah's bundas to Allah's will. so a sage or spritual leader is not entitled to any empire, neither he should indulge in empire building, because then the whole phenomenon that he claims to have initiated will die, because his duty is to call people to submit to Allah's will, not his, by building empire he shall be just doing the opposite. which will further take away the closeness to godliness, that he claims to poccess. if he is not to be king, then his family cannot claim the status of royalty. they should be subjected to the same behavior as other fellow mumins, rather harshly, so that they can be manifestation of good training. i have not seen one spritual leader or sage whose son call themselves shehzadas.

jamanpasand
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Next Destination - Germany

#6

Unread post by jamanpasand » Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:58 pm

Public Relations, no doubt plays an important role but it has its own limitations.
The mood of the masses is more important than public relation. The past two generations have seen just two dais, so both these dais were able to built a towering image. It will be really hard for the new incumbent to come any way near the last two, especially when the nomination is so late and there is no visible single candidate. My wife though confused on the fatimid imams linkage and closer to twelve, is still a strong believer of Burhanuddin. But will she accept Qaid Joher or Mazum or any other in Burhanuddin place is difficult question to answer at this point.
So don’t be so pessimistic, believe in nature, it has it own way of doing things.

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Next Destination - Germany

#7

Unread post by accountability » Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:16 pm

jp if you read my analysis, it should answer some questions, you are right, and i do think that the image of present syedna will be difficult for his sons to copy. but it is more complex than the image. there has to be a change of mentality among masses to accept the realities. right now it is like a cult, the near and dear ones all of them has material intrest in status quo. so they will be resisting any change, and then they will not alone, their families and other beneficieries will also support them. there are literally thousands of people, who directly or indirectly making their living through this system. for some it will be too great a shock that they have suddenly lost the heaven and will be working hard to earn it besides doing purjosh matam.

jamanpasand
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Next Destination - Germany

#8

Unread post by jamanpasand » Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:05 pm

Accountability

I think we both are looking from totally different angle. Your vision of status quo is based on the assumption of continuity. Even Syedna is not working on this assumption otherwise succession limbo would not be there. No amount of PR can guarantee a smooth transition, so status quo is just out of question. There will be separations or threats of separations and change will be very much on card.

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Next Destination - Germany

#9

Unread post by accountability » Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:11 pm

jp actually we are both looking from the same angle, i agree with you that status quo will be hard to maintain, you are very right, right now the tug of war is on, very much on, that is why the announcement is not made. there will be blood shed, no matter who and when any one is nominated. i was just putting things in perspective. let us get ready to take back what is rightfully ours. the embezzled wealth and honour and freedom from the cult.

mumin52
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Next Destination - Germany

#10

Unread post by mumin52 » Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:41 pm

the above conversation is a crap n just time pass as i said early...u dont hve n e other work n u'll come on shit on yah smelling msg board.. its fun readin ya crap...u r seriously LOOSERS!!!!!! i pity on u'll!

jamanpasand
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Next Destination - Germany

#11

Unread post by jamanpasand » Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:20 pm

Quote
Mummin 52
its fun readin ya crap
Quote

If you think it is fun reading this crap then there is something wrong with your believe.

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Next Destination - Germany

#12

Unread post by accountability » Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:07 am

mumin 52

you are a big looser, you know why because you read all that "crap" knowningly, and you knew that it will have serious and mature subject, and you did it without raza. you are not supposed to read material that are not approved by kothar. by knowingly you have committed a crime that will never be pardoned by shehzada saheb.

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Next Destination - Germany

#13

Unread post by accountability » Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:09 am

or do you give a crap for shehzada....

allbird
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Next Destination - Germany

#14

Unread post by allbird » Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:35 am

Originally posted by tahir:
once the main character from mythology disappears, the myth falls. it would be very difficult to create the same myth around any other person. even they come up with consensus candidate, the myth and aura will be gone. lets hope for the good of our community.
acc'bility,
You are underestimating the power of kothari PR and way overestimating bohri intelligence. Believe me, they can create the same myth and divine aura around a donkey if they ever have to. The "main character from mythology", as you put it, has actually a very little role to play in the game.
Originally posted by AlBird:

quote:Originally posted by tahir:
Mamluk-E-Syedna is equivalent to Scrotum-E-Syedna

Good work tahir now translate this one.

Mumluk-E-Alhe-Mohammand (PBUH).

Your will lead Asgari well with your immense knowledge. The best Asgari Bohra sect ISLAM has ever seen. I DARE YOU TAHIR !!!!!!!

Tahir i am still awaiting your reply on this one...

tahir
Posts: 1229
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Next Destination - Germany

#15

Unread post by tahir » Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:15 am

AlBird,
Actually it isn't worth replying to someone who cannot tell between "equivalence" (contextual) and "translation" (literal). Even this response is an acknowledgement to your posting the same query on almost all threads.

allbird
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Next Destination - Germany

#16

Unread post by allbird » Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:35 am

Originally posted by tahir:
AlBird,
Actually it isn't worth replying to someone who cannot tell between "equivalence" (contextual) and "translation" (literal). Even this response is an acknowledgement to your posting the same query on almost all threads.
Then why don't you enlighten me with your enpowering knowledge about islam. I though apples were equal apples, never know apples were equal to oranges in either contextual or literal.