Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

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Tayyeb
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:30 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#151

Unread post by Tayyeb » Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:29 am

who ever made the rutbas of mazoon and mukasir knew death is eminent and if dai dies the next man should be always in place....this system restricts chipmunk like MS to get in to system. but unfortunately bohras are happy with chipmunk.

Saif53
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#152

Unread post by Saif53 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:48 pm

FROM THE QUTBI BOHRA BLOG:
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2016/03 ... -know.html
Nass & Tawqeef: All you need to know
The Foundation of Shariat is Nass & Tawqeef. [1].

But, what is Nass? How is Nass established? What are the requirements?

To a Dawoodi Bohra mumin the answers to these questions are quite simple – but to a Non Mumin or a Qutbi Bohra, it is most certainly not. The lack of understanding (or deliberately twisting) of this truth, is root cause for the Qutbi Bohra fitnat. It is imperative for the Qutbi Bohras to understand the basics of Nass & Tawqeef, in order to see the truth. After all, Nass & Tawqeef is the key – everything else is secondary.

Realizing the importance of Nass & Tawqeef, it is no surprise that these were the exact same questions posed by the High Court Judge:

“How do you establish only by a doctrine or custom that the Mazoon (the second in command in the community) becomes the successor? What are the requirements? ...witnesses...?” asked Justice Patel.

In the first chapter of Daim ul Islam, Syedna Qadi Noman RA lays down the simple basics. He says:

If they ask us, how is (the continuity) of Imamat? We say: “It is by Nass & Tawqeef” – so that there cannot be any hujjat or argument (against us).[2]

Nass basically means the appointment of the Mansoos by the Dai. There is no difference in opinion between the Dawoodi & Qutbi Bohras in regards to the definitions of Nass.

However, the Qutbi Bohras forget that along with Nass, there must be Tawqeef as well.

This article will explain the concept of Tawqeef as follows:
o The meaning of Tawqeef (there must be a witness to the Nass)
o This witnesses must be physical human beings.
o The definition of the word “shaahid” (witness)
o A person cannot be his own witness.
o A Nass without Tawqeef is invalid
o There has NEVER been a Private Nass without witnesses
o Not every Mazoon has become the Dai
o How should the news of a Nass be conveyed (to the people)?
o The witness can be anyone, regardless of their position

The meaning of Tawqeef

According to Lane’s Lexicon the meaning of Tawqeef is:

“وقّفه على الشيئ، meaning عرفه ايّاه, He made him acquainted with the thing; informed him of it; gave him notice of it”

Simply put, Tawqeef means making the Nass known to a third person (a witnesss) - the act of identifying and describing the mansoos to someone other than the mansoos himself.
In order for Tawqeef to take place, there must be a witness. It must be between The Dai (performing the Nass) and the - third person witness who is being informed of the Nass on the Mansoos.

Regardless of whether the Nass is Private or Public, there MUST be a witness. Aimmat AS & Doat Mutlaqeen RA have always had witnesses to their Nass.

KQ’s claim is that a Nass without witnesses or a Nass without Tawqeef is valid - this in itself is proof of his ignorance. Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA further confirms this position. He says:

“A Dai is instructed to appoint his successor… and this appointment must be made in the presence of the people of his Dawat”[3]

The Witness must be a Physical Human Being
In the same paragraph of Daim al Islam (mentioned above) Syedna Qadi Noman states that the “Naas (the person performing the Nass), must inform his followers”.
The witness needs to be a physical person (man or woman). One cannot simply brush off and say that Allah TA is his only witness. Undoubtedly because Allah TA ­is a witness over everything.

The definition of the term “shaahid” )witness(
A shaahid is a person who says “I saw or I heard etc etc” [4]
A shahid must be a person who can testify to something he/she has witnessed. A shahid must be a person who is able to communicate what he heard or saw. This further confirms the fact that the witness must be a physical person. Thus, claiming that God is the only witness to KQ’s alleged Nass deems it necessary for "God" to come down to earth and testify on behalf of KQ.
(In claiming that "God" is his own witness – he directly accepts that Nass requires a witness – which refutes his earlier position that there were no witnesses and he needed none.)


A person cannot be his own witness.
KQ claims he is the only witness to his alleged Nass.
In the Chapter of “Shahaadat”– Syedna Qadi Noman RA clearly states that a witness cannot testify in favour of himself.[5]
Therefore, by claiming to be the only witness of his Nass is against Daim ul Islam and all Islamic Fiqh. His testimony is not acceptable regardless of his position.
(In claiming that KQ is his own witness – he directly accepts that Nass requires a witness – which refutes his earlier position that there were no witnesses and he needed none.)
Read also: http://believesyednaqutbuddin.com/2014/ ... g-benefit/

A Nass without Tawqeef is invalid
In reference to the fitnat of Sulaiman, Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA states that Sulaiman's followers accepted a nass without any witnesses. Addressing the Sulaimaniyeen (followers of Sulaiman), the author goes on to say “your lies, that the Dai passed away suddenly without doing any wasiyyat... even though this sickness was known and he had made preparations for his own demise… we are Dawoodi Bohras because we refuted Sulaiman's claim of nass without witnesses. He then goes on to say "Whoever comes forth with Nass & Tawqeef, is the rightful Dai." [6]

On another note, those who disputed the Nass on Syedna Abdulqadir Najmuddin RA challenged him that if a Nass had taken place – then there must be two witnesses - therefore who are your witnesses? Syedna Abdulqadir Najmuddin RA replied that that Sh Abdul Ali and Sh Abudllah bin al Had Abdul Qadir were the witnesses. [7]
What is important to note from this bayaan is that even the munafiqeen were aware of the basics of Nass, that is, there must be witnesses.

There has NEVER been a Private Nass without witnesses
In the History of Dawat – There has never been a Private Nass without witnesses.
The Qutbi Bohras claim that certain Awliyaullah SAW performed Private Nass without witnesses. This is a complete distortion of the facts. Dawat texts prove the contrary. Please read the following links provided below.

The Nass of Sulaiman Nabi AS:
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2014/11 ... bi-as.html
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2015/11 ... again.html

The Nass on Imam Mansoor AS
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2015/07 ... -nass.html
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2016/02 ... -waaz.html

The Nass on the 7th Dai, Syedna Husain RA
http://believesyednaqutbuddin.com/2014/01/25/reason-2/

Not every Mazoon has become the Dai
Although there are many instances where the Dai has performed Nass & Tawqeef on his Mazoon – there are many instances where the Mansoos was neither the Mazoon nor the Mukasir. Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA has clarified this fact in many bayaans.

There are many examples of the Mansoos not being the Mazoon of the time. The most recent examples are the Nass of the:
· 46th Dai on the 47th Dai
· 48th Dai on the 49th Dai
· 49th Dai on the 50th Dai
· 50th Dai on the 51st Dai

How should the news (paighaam) of a Nass be conveyed (to the people)?
Syedna Hamiduddin al Kirmani RA states[8]:

“What is that thing by which ‘Nas’ is proved?” it asks, and replies:
“As to those who are present and see to them ‘Nas’ is proved by pointing out to them and informing them of the successor, and to those who are absent ‘Nas’ is proved by information communicated to them by such persons who will be considered as authority.”


The above text confirms that:
· A third person must be informed of the Nass (tawqeef/witnesses)
· For those who are absent – the Nass needs to be conveyed by an accepted authority (by the Imam or Dai).
The ibarat does not limit who is allowed to convey the Nass, as long as he’s an authority - irrespective of his position/rank or rutba.

The Shehzadas/witnesses in London conveyed the Nass - with the farmaan of Syedna Burhanuddin RA - through the system of Dawat and local Amils – all of these people where authorities appointed by the Dai Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA himself.

The witness can be anyone, regardless of their position or rutba
It is the Dai’s sole discretion as to whom he appoints as a witness to the Nass. It is not necessary that the Mazoon must be informed of the Nass and convey it to others. Any authority (appointed by the Dai) can be a shaahid of the Nass. For example:

The 43rd Dai, Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin RA informed his trusted hawaalchi (assistant) - not the Mazoon - about his Nass on the 44th Dai (Syedna Mohammed Ezzuddin RA).

When the 48th Dai (Syedna Abdul Husain Husamuddin RA) performed Nass on the 49th Dai (Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA), along with some other hudood, the witnesses to the Nass were Syedna Abdullah Badruddin RA and Syedi Abdeali Mohyuddin QR – both who weren’t the Mazoon at the time. The Mazoon was Syedia Ismail Bs Badruddin QR. [9]

Similarly, when the 49th Dai (Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA) performed Nass on the 50th Dai (Syedna Abdullah Badruddin RA), the witnesses were Syedi Abdeali Mohyuddin QR, Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA, Syedi Taiyeb Zainuddin QR , and Miya Saheb Sh Taiyeb Bhai Kothari. None of the the above were the Mazoon of the time. The Mazoon was still Syedi Ismail Bs Badruddin QR.[10]

= = =
Concluding.
Since the inception of the Qutbi Bohra fitnat and the Fatemi Dawat site, the Qutbis have demanded proof from us, when not being able to provide one iota of evidence from their end.

They have been challenged to cite just one source from Dawat books in regards to Nass & Tawqeef. Till date, despite many requests and challenges, they have not been able to do so. Yet, they continue to fabricate stories out of thin air and feed it to their followers - who accept it blindly.

This article has referenced texts that are easily available to the Qutbi Academic team and their scholars. Unlike the Qutbi rhetoric of saying "bayaan ayu che" (without mentioning any references) - I urge the Qutbi followers to confirm these Dawat texts, realize that KQ and the Qutbi team are lying – and inshallah­ – see the truth.

Finally, I quote the qasida of Syedi Hasan bin Idris QR which he wrote to to Sulaiman, during his fitnat and false claim:
و ذا مقام عظيم لا يتم لمن * لم يأت بالنص توقيفا و توجيها
...
فهات لي مشبها ما قلت من حجج * هاتي لنا شاهدا ان كنت قاضيها
...
[11]وكل دعوى اذا لم تأت بينة * كانت لعمري اباطيلا و تمويها

[…this (The rutba of Dawat) is a "maqaam e azeem" that cannot be claimed by the one who does not bring forth Nass & Tawqeef ... Rasulullah appointed Moulana Ali through Nass & Tawqeef ... so… bring me some proof ... bring us even one witness to your claim ... every claim (dawo) that doesn't have proof is baatil (false) and fabricated]

To KQ and the Qutbi Leaders I challenge:
قل هاتوا برهانكم ان كنتم صادقين
[Bring forth your burhan (proof), if indeed you are truthful]



[1] (Ref: Kitaab al Najah - Introduction)
[2] Daim ul Islam – Chapter 1, Syedna Qadi Noman RA
[3] Ref: Risalah Dorar al Huda al Mudeeah Page 63
[4] Syedna Qadi Noman RA (Sharh al Akhbar Volume 1)
[5] Daim al Islam – Chapter of Shahadat – Syedna Qadi Noman RA
[6] Risalah – Zau o Noor al Haq al Mubeen by Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA
[7] Risalah - Tazkerat Labeeb (Pg 171) by Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA
[8] Translation Accepted by Both Parties (The Privy Council Judgement Page 8) - Original text from Risalah al Wadhiyah – Syedna Hamiduddin al Kirmani RA:
[9] Seerat al Radhiya
[10] Seerat al Radhiya
[11] Risalah – Ne’m Sibghah al Ilahiyyah (page 461) by Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA

Tayyeb
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:30 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#153

Unread post by Tayyeb » Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:35 pm

http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2016/01 ... under.html

above link shows SKQ is trying to bring dawat to proper norms once again, in the link they say SKQ held majlis for every miqaat of panjatan but didnt organized (allegedly) for the urus of SMB (which I believe is not the case) but even if it is true, it means SKQ is taking his followers back to originality of dawat which is love for panjatan and importance for panjatan, recently 51 and 52 duat tried to hijack every thing and self glorify in every thing which is absolutely crap...I am happy SKQ is taking his followers back to right direction.

thank you saif53 for posting above link and exposing MS and his chor party.

Wajid
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#154

Unread post by Wajid » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:12 am

Saif53 wrote:FROM THE QUTBI BOHRA BLOG:
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2016/03 ... -know.html
Nass & Tawqeef: All you need to know
The Foundation of Shariat is Nass & Tawqeef. [1].
....

Salaams Saif bhai trepan,

To other forum members, I request to please not derail this discussion and let Mr. Saif bhai respond - if he is indeed truthful to his cause.

First of all - just one question - are you following the MS adawat ni gadi as a matter of conviction or convenience ?

If it is convenience, I cannot help, nobody can help but the voice of your own soul.
بَلْ سَوَّلَتْ لَكُمْ أَنفُسُكُمْ أَمْرًا "ask your own nafs about your actions" ...

If it is conviction, then you have unsuccessfully tried here over the years to spend probably hundreds of hours to convince others. I invite you to spend some of your intellectual capital explaining my prior post. I bring here again...
Please provide some dissertation of the hand written letter from Sayedna Taher Saifuddin. Since according to you, the followers of SKQ (tus) are "intellectually void", the ignorant fools can perhaps not understand the inner meaning of the letter. Only a highly qualified Jamea intellectual like you can provide some light.

Please read the complete letter before writing your analysis ...

"I bestow my peaceful greetings—a peaceful greeting whose minaret in the house of pure honor is elevated, whose soaring vistas in the horizons of authentic nobility are vast—upon you, [my] most beloved, most precious, most radiant, most magnanimous, most devoted/virtuous son, apple of my eye [lit. piece of my liver]and joy of my heart, the bright luminary and an auspicious star in the firmament of high distinction, a Dawat rank-holder with a great destiny, one who walks the path of truest guidance, and has gathered in his heart the gems and pearls of the ultimate realities of knowledge, one who shines in rightly guided Dawat (Da’wat-e Hadiya’s) sky as a shining moon on the night of its fullness, and takes action appropriately through exemplary policies and considered judgment, whose name is Khuzaima and whose surname (laqab) is Qutbuddin...

The letter further goes in to say "you delivered sermons in Muharram in the first flush of youth, with God’s aid and a flowing stream of ta’yid [divineinspiration] from his chosen one, the Imam of the Age" ...

In MS's own words "only a Dai can receive the ta'yid from the Imam - none else".

I challenge you to dispute the interpretation that STS (RA) did not refer to SKQ (TUS) as a future Dai in the making. Who besides a Dai can be referred to as the one who shines in rightly guided Dawat (Da’wat-e Hadiya’s) sky as "a shining moon on the night of its fullness, ...

Eagerly awaiting your response.

Fi AmanIllah

Wajid
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#155

Unread post by Wajid » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:35 am

james wrote:The trolling nature of many of the regulars on this forum never ceases to amuse me. Here I am offering concrete definitive proof against the lies posted by Wajid ...
James bhai Salam,
Yaar, if you agree that the letter from STS (ra) posted is an authentic one and not a lie (fabricated), you may want to help your twin brother Saif bhai trepan to answer my questions ...

Khuda Hafiz

Wajid
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#156

Unread post by Wajid » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:06 am

I attach here the letter in case if you find hard time locating it on this forum :

seeker110
Posts: 1730
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#157

Unread post by seeker110 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:07 pm

After the demise of 52nd the two gangs of the same clan now has to spend the rest of their lives protecting the ill gotten wealth and their own lives from each other. None will ever see peace in their life, until it burns itself out.

There is no fear of Allah in this clan. It is only about Money.

Ateka
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:26 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#158

Unread post by Ateka » Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:30 pm

Well said! Brother seeker. In fact it's all about money and always was. Hard to say, at what point in time "faith" in Allah got lost.

seeker110 wrote:After the demise of 52nd the two gangs of the same clan now has to spend the rest of their lives protecting the ill gotten wealth and their own lives from each other. None will ever see peace in their life, until it burns itself out.

There is no fear of Allah in this clan. It is only about Money.

Saif53
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#159

Unread post by Saif53 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:30 pm

FROM THE QUTBI BOHRA BLOG:
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2016/03 ... shara.html
The Last Ashara?
The Qutbi Bohra Sijill #108 refers to the Ashara of 1432H as "Syedna Burhanuddin’s Last Ashara" - because (in their words) "this would be the very last Ashara during which Syedna Burhanuddin would deliver his blessed sermons". Their criteria is Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin's bayaan.

Unless the Qutbi Bohras have wax in their ears, (which they most certainly do) - they would have heard Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin's crystal clear bayaan during the 1st waaz of 1433H (the following year) - in which Syedna RA recited the shahadat of Imam Husain AS.


Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA performing waaz on 2nd Moharram 1433H (after the stroke)
Are the Qutbi Bohras so blind forget Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin's RA presence every single day during the Asharas of 1433H, 1434H & 1435H?

Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA giving salaami during Ashara (after the stroke).
The presence of The Dai of Imam Husain AS was the lubb of Ashara Mubarakah. To be able to perform Deedar of his noorani chehra mubarak and attend his maatam majlis was the essence of Moharram.

Are the Qutbi Bohras so dead at heart that they disregard the final 3 years of the 52nd Dai Mutlaq - as if they never happened?

Quoting those who do not believe in the shaan of the Dai, but only see a physical body, the 5th Dai, Syedna Ali RA says in the shaan of Syedna Hatim RA:



تحيرت الافكار فى عظم شانه فها هي دابا للظنون ترجم
رأه بابصار اناس وانما بصائرهم عن كنه ماابصروا عموا
فقالوا نرى جسما يلوح مركبا وذاك قصارى ما رأوا وتوهموا
ومحصوله لو يشعرون حقيقة به ملك عال شريف معظم
سنا جوهر اللاهوت منبع اصله ومنشأ لالا نوره حين يوسم
بباهر برهان وحسن عبارة له انجاب ديجور من الشك مظلم
[Summary: All minds are in awe shaan of the Dai.
Some (others) see the Dai, but in reality they are spiritually blind in what they see.
They say: "we only see a (physical) body", that is all they see.
If they only knew the haqeeqat, they would truly see a great and mighty angel,
whose asal (origin) is from the jawhar of lahoot and pure noor.
By virtue of (His) clear Burhan and beautiful speech, the darkness of shak (doubt) is cast aside.]

***
If indeed the Qutbi Bohras refer to 1432H as the final Ashara of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA, then why have they posted "Videos of Syedna Burhanuddin from Aashura 1433" on their own Fatemi Dawat website?
So which one is the "last ashara" now? Is it 1432H or 1433H?


***
This Sijill #108 continues to draw parallels between KQ being present during the Ashara of 1432, somehow alleging that this equated a sign of Nass? The Qutbi Bohra Academic team should know better - that being in the hazrat of the Dai is a farizat.
If the Qutbi team takes the liberty of comparing historical accounts and taking them out of context - then one can even compare how Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA kept KQ away from him during Asharas of 1433H, 1434H and 1435H - just like Rasulullah SAW sent certain people away from Madina during His last days.

Besides, they continue to forget that presence in hazrat doesn't equate Nass, only Nass & Tawqeef is the basis of appointing a Mansoos.

***

Finally the Sijill #108 posted a video and went on to talk about "The noorani manzar of Burhanuddin Aqa bestowing nazaraat and salaami to his Mazoon". They forget that Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA continued to bestow "nazaraat and salaami to his" mumineen, from 1432H up until the eve of Milad al Nabi 1435H.
Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA on the eve of Milad al Nabi 1436
IF, however, the salaami of Ashura 1432H, as alleged by the Qutbi Bohras, was the final salaami of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA during Ashara - then - as usual, instead of focusing on Burhanuddin Moula RA, KQ was too busy involved in his own antics on the side.




Rather than making his grandson do deedar of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA, KQ blocks him. KQ strayed his followers away from Burhanuddin Moula RA throughout his life, especially keeping them mehroom from His janaza mubarakah.



KQ wasn't physically and spiritually focused on Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA - neither are his followers.

Tayyeb
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:30 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#160

Unread post by Tayyeb » Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:18 am

seems like saif53 is anpad gawar who could not read wajid post and reply....he ignored wajid post and continued with his copy post business.

Admin I think this kind of derailing should be stopped ASAP.

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 607
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#161

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:00 am

I am quite keen to learn what Saif bhai and his clone James have to say about the letter from STS to SKQ where he stated that SKQ did the waaz with the tai'd of imam uz zaman. Especially in light of a recent letter from malumaat where SMS clearly asserts that the tai'd of imam uz zaman is reserved for a Dai only!!!

I think SMS is sick of being paraded around like a Dai Doll and wants to sabotage his own role and is trying to proclaim SKQ as Dai, as perhaps he already is!

But I am curious to hear what James and his clone think about the self incriminating remarks of our moula. This is the second time he sabotaged himself. The first time was when he said that the best food is what you cook yourself BUT you must take the thaali that is mass produced....

ajamali
Posts: 629
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#162

Unread post by ajamali » Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:36 pm

Unhappy, you have a good point. SMS is trying to tell us that SKQ is the Dai.
If according to the douchebag MS, only a dai can receive taeed, and we have a letter from a dai that says that SKQ received, said taeed, then it must follow that SKQ is the dai.

I only took logic 101 and even I can see that therefore I am sure that James and Saif see that. Hence they will not reply!!!

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#163

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:51 am

I bestow my peaceful greetings—a peaceful greeting whose minaret in the house of pure honor is elevated, whose soaring vistas in the horizons of authentic nobility are vast—upon you, [my] most beloved, most precious, most radiant, most magnanimous, most devoted/virtuous son, apple of my eye [lit. piece of my liver]and joy of my heart, the bright luminary and an auspicious star in the firmament of high distinction, a Dawat rank-holder with a great destiny
“A dawat rank holder with a great destiny” ! hmm this also could be a sign !

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#164

Unread post by asad » Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:57 am

people on side of KQ are banging their heads against wall, Even if they produce a clear video of MB doing nass on KQ that will be refuted as doctored so these signs and letters carry no weight.

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#165

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:01 am

asad wrote:people on side of KQ are banging their heads against wall, Even if they produce a clear video of MB doing nass on KQ that will be refuted as doctored so these signs and letters carry no weight.
Bro asad

actually SKQ camp seems to be pretty chill and settled with thier Dai. it is SMS camp which is dancing in disgust and has made SKQ bashing a part of their piety to express allegiance to SMS. Even if Imam-uz-zaman turned up and declared SKQ as dai, muffy maula followers may not beleive out of habit or embarrassment !

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#166

Unread post by asad » Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:10 am

humanbeing wrote:
asad wrote:people on side of KQ are banging their heads against wall, Even if they produce a clear video of MB doing nass on KQ that will be refuted as doctored so these signs and letters carry no weight.
Bro asad

actually SKQ camp seems to be pretty chill and settled with thier Dai. it is SMS camp which is dancing in disgust and has made SKQ bashing a part of their piety to express allegiance to SMS. Even if Imam-uz-zaman turned up and declared SKQ as dai, muffy maula followers may not beleive out of habit or embarrassment !
Nothing matters for MS camp except the show must go on. IF KQ had promised them a bigger show and better largess who knows KQ would have been the current dai of the masses.

We have had a thread which ran into 10's of pages on discussing why Bohras will not accept the Imam if not endorsed by the Dai. And what i have noticed in meetings with Kotharis and qasre Mawali, that the time is not far when MS will be declared the Imam, they have already started hinting towards this in private meetings. For last 7 generations its quite straight forward, they have to just join the dots around 18-30th Dai and moreover who is going to check the genealogy, whatever Kothar says will be taken at the face value.

objectiveobserver53
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#167

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:37 am

I would also like to know from Saify and Jamie if SMS is declaring SKQ as Dai. Based on the logic presented above by Unhappy and ajamali, it would appear so. When is the takhtnashi???

think_for_yourself
Posts: 424
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Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#168

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:37 am

OO53, Unhappy, Jamali,

1] SKQ is already Dai. And MS's confused declarations are not going to make him more or less so. Although I do appreciate your sarcasm :D

2] Jamie and Saify are still scratching their heads on how to address this issue. They cannot say that SKQ does not receive taeed of imam uz zaman without calling STS RA a liar.

Don't scratch your head too hard boys. It might heat up the air inside and cause your heads to explode.

humanbeing
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Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#169

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:18 am

Bro Wajid

Can you tell me, for which ocasion does STS write this letter to SKQ and which event is under reference here, when STS states that SKQ handled community affairs beautifully.

Also if you wish, you can answer previous questions I presented about a general life in SKQ camp with respect to Qadambosi and stuff.

Tayyeb
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:30 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#170

Unread post by Tayyeb » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:16 am

good catch, MS chamchas are grounded now. they wont be around for some time now :lol:

Wajid
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#171

Unread post by Wajid » Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:30 pm

humanbeing wrote:Bro Wajid

Can you tell me, for which ocasion does STS write this letter to SKQ and which event is under reference here, when STS states that SKQ handled community affairs beautifully.
Also if you wish, you can answer previous questions I presented about a general life in SKQ camp with respect to Qadambosi and stuff.
Bhai Humanbeing Salaams,

To your first question, Syedna Taher Saifuddin hand wrote a misal, (a letter) to Qutbuddin maula after he did ashara in Udaipur. At that time Qutbuddin maula was only about 26 years old, and not in any rutba yet. But Syedna Taher Saifuddin said he had done waaz by receiving the divine inspiration of the Imam al-Zaman. Such a letter is unique - an can be only interpreted to be for the one who was the future dai in making ...

To my understanding, Sayedna Qutbuddin made genuine efforts to build the bridges between the progressives and the mainstream Dawoodi bohras. But the Kothar gang did not see eye to eye with him on this subject and hence they fabricated the Africa episode to malign Sayedna Qutbuddin who was in rutba of Mazoon then. Allahu Aalam.

To your second question, life in general in SKQ camp ... : What can I say here ? This is a personal question but since you have asked me a couple of times, I make an attempt to respond very briefly...

My path to the Dawat ul Haq, in responding to the call from SKQ (tus) is a rather unique and this forum is probably not a right venue to discuss that. I must say that I with my wife and kids are the only ones in my family who took a stand for what we believe in (Alhamdolillah). All my friends and family are in the MS Camp (obviously hostile in varying degrees). The Quranic ayah below is my response to them and all others who have a view different than us.
قُلْ هَـذِهِ سَبِيلِي أَدْعُو إِلَى اللّهِ عَلَى بَصِيرَةٍ أَنَاْ وَمَنِ اتَّبَعَنِي وَسُبْحَانَ اللّهِ وَمَا أَنَاْ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ (12:108)
Say thou: "This is my way: I do invite unto Allah,- on evidence clear as the seeing with one's eyes,- I and whoever follows me. Glory to Allah. and never will I join gods with Allah."

About SKQ (tus), I "discovered" him in real sense only after the demise of SMB (ra). Like multitudes of bohras, we only knew the Mazoon saheb because of our Misaaq where we acknowledged him. Nothing else. The only exposure we had, via the Kothar and their aamil cronies across the globe, was to the nefarious sons of SMB (ra) and their various caprices from time to time.

Upon knowing SKQ (tus), I have found him to be most unassuming and humble person. He makes you feel at ease and listens to everything that you have to say. And he remembers you very well the next time you meet him and also the problems / subjects that you may have discussed with him during your prior meeting. Talking with others who knew him from the time he was Mazoon, would readily attest to this experience. About Maulana's sons or daughters, I have known them from the past 2 years and are also equally humble and are capable of entering an intellectual discussion on any subject (deen or duniya) :)
We the believers of SKQ (tus) have developed our own way of life. Maulana's daughters take regular Madrasa classes every week via web conference, his sons give regular sabaks on various subjects (nothing like the nonsense discourses of defunct kothari aamils). BiHamdillah life goes on. Atleast there is a spiritual satisfaction and we are true to ourselves and to our belief in Haq.
Nothing more to add ...
Feel free to pm me if you want to discuss any particular subject.

Maa Salaam
Fi AmanIllah

humanbeing
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Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#172

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:46 am

Bro wajid

Thanks for your kind response. Sorry to be tailing with my questions, but what was the significance of SKQ doing ashara waaz at age of 26 in Udaipur. I mean was it like he was delivering waaz for the first time in his life, was it his first ashara sermons, or was it his first ashara sermons in Udaipur ? I mean on what occasion did it require for STS to sing these praises for SKQ. Are there more such letters praising SKQ by STS or SMB ? Ohh Infact, is there any letters of praises from SMB to SKQ as well ?
The community affairs you mention which is rift between orthodox and progressive bohra at that time. What I know from information is, SKQ could not handle the situation well, he was furious with the rebellion and mishandled the negotiation with arrogance due to which he had to fled to Galiyakot out of mob fear. This had upset SMB a lot and that Galiyakot Incident happened where Udaipur people where assaulted in front of SMB.

Please correct me wherever I am wrong.

humanbeing
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Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#173

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:35 am

humanbeing wrote:The community affairs you mention which is rift between orthodox and progressive bohra at that time. What I know from information is, SKQ could not handle the situation well, he was furious with the rebellion and mishandled the negotiation with arrogance due to which he had to fled to Galiyakot out of mob fear. This had upset SMB a lot and that Galiyakot Incident happened where Udaipur people where assaulted in front of SMB.

Please correct me wherever I am wrong.
I correct myself for the above error, it was Mr. Qaid Johar who was sent to udaipur to resolve the conflict and not SKQ.

allbird
Posts: 607
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#174

Unread post by allbird » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:42 am

From what i know since i WAS common in Saifee Mahal and a khdimat Guzaar insider. SKQ was very short tempered and quite aware of his position. Humbleness was not his strong points, but may have now become humble due to prevailing conditions, age and need to prove situation. About his memory remembering people and their problems that comes from STS (RA), i can definitely vouch for that, its genetic.

With regards to his children's i was not much involved with the female counterpart but the sons were hard to handle. TB is knowledgeable but onto himself..me...me....me. Hussian pretends to be smart but very much aware of his power and position. Personally don't like him and so does most of Saifee Mahal. AbdeAli is okay, very quiet and decent and is very smart too. Speaks less and keeps his dignity well preserved. Aziz is out of bounds, growing too fast and too big for his boots. Similar to Husain and TB.

I am not sure about current situation as their heads are not high after this episode.

Tayyeb
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:30 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#175

Unread post by Tayyeb » Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:25 am

allbird wrote:From what i know since i WAS common in Saifee Mahal and a khdimat Guzaar insider. SKQ was very short tempered and quite aware of his position. Humbleness was not his strong points, but may have now become humble due to prevailing conditions, age and need to prove situation. About his memory remembering people and their problems that comes from STS (RA), i can definitely vouch for that, its genetic.

With regards to his children's i was not much involved with the female counterpart but the sons were hard to handle. TB is knowledgeable but onto himself..me...me....me. Hussian pretends to be smart but very much aware of his power and position. Personally don't like him and so does most of Saifee Mahal. AbdeAli is okay, very quiet and decent and is very smart too. Speaks less and keeps his dignity well preserved. Aziz is out of bounds, growing too fast and too big for his boots. Similar to Husain and TB.

I am not sure about current situation as their heads are not high after this episode.
Since you are an insider please also provide some information about MS clan and their attitude and I hope you will be honest.

humanbeing
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Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#176

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:12 am

Most of all, these kothari pests act as if they are some divine beings walking around in lightened robs and aura of divinity circling on thier heads.. Language is flowery to praise each other. refer to STS and SKQ letter, all that jazz of shining moon and sun of daawat and stuff for doing their regular job in comfort, pomp, pamper and flattery. Such words come in handy to bamboozle commoners and create a euphoria of divinity in them. Some sort of celestial beings merchants of heaven.

in name of khidmat they are sit over comortable chairs, padded sujnees, paalkhies and thrones, lending their ear, hands, feet and knees to abdes for some minutes or hours charging a ransom. they call this khidmat of daawat. touring the world, giving salamiees, posing with people. where is the freaking hardships. when tough times come these guys run like rats and sleep with enemies.

can they match courage, valor and hardship like fakhruddin shaheed, qutbuddin shaheed. No one is asking them to run around barefeet in sweltering summer or risk thier heads to enemies. least they can do is take a diplomatic and tough stand against opressors and injustice. These panzies cannot stand a hard sunny day, need Umbrellas, darbaans, airconditioned locomotives designed and covered to thier taste.

These thugs can never never match simplicity, austerity and humility of Prophet and Ahle bayt and humble duaats who who left with the legacy of character and not palaces, wealth and properties to fight over !

Tayyeb
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:30 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#177

Unread post by Tayyeb » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:29 am

humanbeing wrote:Most of all, these kothari pests act as if they are some divine beings walking around in lightened robs and aura of divinity circling on thier heads.. Language is flowery to praise each other. refer to STS and SKQ letter, all that jazz of shining moon and sun of daawat and stuff for doing their regular job in comfort, pomp, pamper and flattery. Such words come in handy to bamboozle commoners and create a euphoria of divinity in them. Some sort of celestial beings merchants of heaven.

in name of khidmat they are sit over comortable chairs, padded sujnees, paalkhies and thrones, lending their ear, hands, feet and knees to abdes for some minutes or hours charging a ransom. they call this khidmat of daawat. touring the world, giving salamiees, posing with people. where is the freaking hardships. when tough times come these guys run like rats and sleep with enemies.

can they match courage, valor and hardship like fakhruddin shaheed, qutbuddin shaheed. No one is asking them to run around barefeet in sweltering summer or risk thier heads to enemies. least they can do is take a diplomatic and tough stand against opressors and injustice. These panzies cannot stand a hard sunny day, need Umbrellas, darbaans, airconditioned locomotives designed and covered to thier taste.

These thugs can never never match simplicity, austerity and humility of Prophet and Ahle bayt and humble duaats who who left with the legacy of character and not palaces, wealth and properties to fight over !
Each word is true and I dont think any one here can refute them.

allbird
Posts: 607
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#178

Unread post by allbird » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:48 pm

Since you are an insider please also provide some information about MS clan and their attitude and I hope you will be honest.[/quote]
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If you are asking about Moula SMS TUS and their clan, i can tell you in few words. They are All arrogant and has no respect for anyone. Just like any rich family kids spoiled brats. I have mentioned this few times in this forum over time, that includes SKQ kids when they were in power position. Over the years i did realise OUR DAWAT is NOT the RIGHT one ,as it often gets mentioned in WAEZ naturally they also can't say we are one amongst other sects of muslims. Saifee Mahal just controls a group of people with power and money by guiding and misguiding both ways. On one hand they will advise a good deed like "DO HIFZ UL QURAN" but on other hand CASH out on name of Imam Hussian, financial misappropriation, no accountability, consider themselves HAQ na sahebo and consider Salaams, Silaat their rights ordained from Allah Subannahu. They misquote Quran verses as if Allah has written those Ayats for Daiullah TUS bypassing Rasullah (SAW). All Imam Ali AS sayings are reworded and copyrights transferred as "Moula TUS Aksaar farmaave che Waez ma"

This wheel of fortune is turned with very balanced operation and that what makes SAifee Mahal a big success. And if they do mistakes Mumineens are always very forgiving and forget all their wrong doings easily. If there is any rebellion then local Aamils along with their goons like Shaka Pramuks & Savaks are instated to curb it.

Just on the lighter side, Does anything looks familiar ?

https://www.facebook.com/mdkabir.hossai ... 296704682/

allbird
Posts: 607
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#179

Unread post by allbird » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:21 pm

Can anyone tell me what SKQ would have done things differently if he was in position of SMS ? I very much doubt if the wealth was not slurped and pompous attitude would not be displayed. Power and wealth is not easy to handle, that's why Rasullah SAW did not had wealth just power and character from Allah subhanau. Current Dai is showing wealthy Imami SHAANAT is just a matter of convenience that is why humbleness of Imam is MISSING from the character.

Display of knowledge can be found from SMS, SKQ, Zakir Naik, Ammar Nakswani, or him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzcZNQuCGZc

Tayyeb
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:30 pm

Re: Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics) - 2016

#180

Unread post by Tayyeb » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:19 am

salam Allbird,

if you are really an insider and yet you are commenting this means your Iman is still alive and not dead like the examples of james and other idiots....glad to read your post.
Can anyone tell me what SKQ would have done things differently if he was in position of SMS ?
you have mentioned a very good point, actually you are right if SKQ was sitting instead of MS I dont think there would be any change, yes right now SKQ is decent thats just coz of his situation and need. when ever money is involve in religion it becomes disaster.
Moula SMS TUS
you follow MS because of financial need? pressure? or some thing else?