Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

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Qadir
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:28 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#31

Unread post by Qadir » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:31 am

ajamali wrote:
Qadir wrote:
Buying degrees do not defy islamic laws.

But preserving/embalming corpse and delaying burial does go against islam. What did your Dai's shehzaadas and shehzaadis learned from the world's best Islamic institutes that they never came across this law of Islam.

If you dont believe in SMS please see this : http://www.fiqhcouncil.org/node/47

TF is defying each and every statement of this article about Islam.
Not required to enbalm the body in order to transport it. And once again, what is it to YOU? Are you a member of the family or a follower? Did SKQ do wasihat to you that he wanted to be buried right away? STF is trying his best to fulfill his father's wishes. It is neither your business nor mine, how he does it.
I think you did not read the article even transporting body and preserving it defies islam.



Saif53
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

#32

Unread post by Saif53 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:43 pm

FROM THE QUTBI BOHRA BLOG:
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2016/04 ... art-1.html
Dear Mr Taher - Part 1
Taher Qutbuddin, son of Khuzaima Qutbuddin has now been named 2nd Qutbi Bohra leader. Khuzaima Qutbuddin's alleged claim for Nass was baseless - therefore any claim that follows KQ's has no grounds - including Taher's.

The Quran e Majeed describes the fate of zalemeen in the following Ayat [09:109]:

أفمن أسس بنيانه على تقوى من الله ورضوان خير أم من أسس بنيانه على شفا جرف هار فانهار به في نار جهنم والله لا يهدي القوم الظالمين

[Is he who founded his building upon taqwa of Allah and His ridwaan (happiness) better; or he who founded his building on the brink of a crumbling, overhanging precipice so that it toppled with him into the fire of hell? Allah doesn't grant hidayat to the zalemeen.]

The Hon. Justice Patel perfectly summed up Taher's predicament. "He claims have become appointee of an appointee. If he can establish any of this, will have to be seen,'' said Justice Patel.


This post is an open letter to Mr Taher Qubuddin/Fakhruddin addressing his position and claims thus far. Some of the questions posted below are actually the identical issues raised by the Qutbis against Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS - thus, it is only correct that they get a taste of their own medicine - or poison.

NASS:
Over the passed two years, it became evident to the Qutbi Bohras that a Private Nass without witnesses is unacceptable according to Fatemi Doctrine. It must comprise of Nass & Tawqeef.

Taher claims that KQ appointed him as follows:

"Syedna Qutbuddin RA has left in our midst his successor, his Shehzada to whom Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA gave the name Taher, the Mubarak name of Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA. Syedna Qutbuddin RA personally prepared his beloved son and made him like him in knowledge and character. This year on the 27th of Muharram, the urus Mubarak of Syedi Fakhruddin Shaheed RA, Syedna Qutbuddin RA appointed Syedna Taher as his successor and granted him the laqab Fakhruddin. At that moment Maulana Qutbuddin advised the witnesses to keep the Nass confidential and gave the witnesses the handwritten letter of Nass."

In Taher's first speech, he claims that KQ's wife, Mrs Sakina Qutbuddin was a witness to this alleged Nass. Taher refuses to name the alleged other witnesses.
In the case of a wasiyyat (bequest), Islamic fiqeh requires a minimum of 2 witnesses.
Who's the second or the other "witnesseS"?
Now that Taher has taken over, what is need to hide their names?
In the case of their "Dawat", why are most things (according to them) "transparent", but when it always bogs down to Nass, it's always a deep secret?


PRIVATE NASS:

Khuzaima "Qutbuddin advised the witnesses to keep the Nass confidential"

Since the inception of the Qutbi Bohra fitnat, the Fatemi Dawat site tried to justify the "private nass" on KQ based on the following:

Question 13:
Why did Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin RA not make public nass on Qutbuddin Mawla years ago?

Answer:
Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin RA disclosed to Muqaddas Syedi Mukasir saheb Saleh bhaisaheb that if he had revealed his nass in public, ‘talwaaro chali jaate’.
Ya’qub nabi had instructed Yusuf nabi not to reveal his rutba to his brothers because he feared that it would increase their jealousy and they would harm him.

This begs the question. According to Taher's version, why did KQ advise "the witnesses to keep the Nass confidential"? Did KQ fear that amoungst his tiny following of about 500 people ‘talwaaro chali jaate’? Or, did he fear that by telling Taher's brothers and sisters "that it would increase their jealousy and they would harm" Taher? Did KQ not trust his inner circle?
Wasn't KQ's speech on the 27th of Moharram all about Nass? What better moment than this to have a worldwide relay and inform his following?

AUDIO VIDEO OF NASS:
The Qutbis refused to accept the testimony of the Shehzadas, because wives, "sons of Nabis, Imams,
and Duat have often revolted and done fitnat and started firqas". Why then are they accepting the testimony of Sakina Qutbuddin, and the other "secret" witnesses?

Since the Qutbis refused to accept the testimony of the Shehzadas, they claimed that "Syedna Burhanuddin has never said that Shz Mufaddal bhaisaheb is his Mansoos; no one has ever heard him say this."

Building on their argument "no one has ever heard" KQ "say this either!

Although Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA clearly performed Nass & Tawqeef in Raudat Tahera 1432H, the Qutbis placed wax in their ears, refused to listen, and demanded more proof of the London Nass because they found "several problems with this version of events". One of them being:

"...no audio or video recording of this momentous event has been released, whereas Shz Idris bhaisaheb whenever he is present in an event, even if it is in the home of Syedna, releases photos on the internet."

In the same way, why hasn't any "video recording of this momentous event" of this alleged nass on Taher been released? Haven't the Qutbi Bohras mastered the art of Youtube videos and live streaming?

(Note: The Audio/Video of the London Nass on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS was relayed worldwide on 19th Rajab 1435H)


DOCUMENT OF NASS:

Khuzaima "gave the witnesses the handwritten letter of Nass."

In case of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin's TUS nass, why is it that when a Nass letter was produced, the Qutbis said "Especially with today’s technology, it is not impossible to alter documents and recordings."

Is it not plausible that Taher's letter is forged?

DELAY IN ANNOUNCING:
Believing the haq na saheb is pivotal to Fatemi belief. It is the Dai's respobsility to make his Mansoos known. There can be no confusion whatsoever. The words مولاك مضى و مولاك بقي (one Moula has passed away and another Moula remains) means that the moment a Mumin receives the news of the passing away of a Dai, he must instantly know the next zamaan na saheb and pledge his allegiance to him. There cannot be a void in the ma'refat of the Haq na Saheb - even for a second.

KQ announced his claim 24 hours after the wafaat of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. What's worse, he actually expected people to give attention to his email campaign just as the Janaza Mubarakah was reaching Saify Masjid.

In the same way, The Qutbi Bohras allege that KQ died during the early hours of Thursday 31st March 2016 in LA according to the Pacific Time Zone. Roughly around or before 5pm IST. The news of KQ's death was confirmed around 8pm IST. At around 11:30pm the Fatemi Dawat team sent out an email announcing KQ's death and informed the people about Taher's succession.

For nearly 6 hours, the Qutbi Bohras knew their leader had passed away, and yet, they had no idea who was next in line. (This is also assuming that the Indian followers bothered to check their email at 11:30pm. If not, they'd only find out on April 1st 2016).

In relation to KQ's claim, the Qutbis said:

"Due to Burhanuddin Mola’s own farmaan, Qutbuddin Mola could not disclose Burhanuddin Mola’s nass upon him earlier. After Burhanuddin Mola’s wafaat/demise, it was his duty to Burhanuddin Mola, and his responsibility to Imam uz zamaan, to make his nass known immediately."

Yes. Mumineen should be informed immediately if not prior to the Dai's demise. However, in this day and age, "immediately" does NOT mean between 6 to 24 hours.

(MORE DISCUSSIONS WILL CONTINUE IN PART 2 OF THIS POST)

I humbly request The Qutbi Bohra followers to rethink their position in connections to KQ's false claim. The doors of tawbah are always open. Similar to the baab e hithah one must be willing to let go their ego and accept the Nass & Tawqeef of Syedna Moahmmed Burhanuddin RA on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS.



kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

#33

Unread post by kimanumanu » Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:27 am

Is there another claimant for the 54th Dai position?



ajamali
Posts: 296
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

#34

Unread post by ajamali » Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:30 am

Qadir wrote:
ajamali wrote:
Not required to enbalm the body in order to transport it. And once again, what is it to YOU? Are you a member of the family or a follower? Did SKQ do wasihat to you that he wanted to be buried right away? STF is trying his best to fulfill his father's wishes. It is neither your business nor mine, how he does it.
I think you did not read the article even transporting body and preserving it defies islam.
Perhaps STS RA should then have been buried in Matheran.



kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

#35

Unread post by kimanumanu » Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:47 am

And this is the biggest problem they have - all their attempts to malign SKQ end up in one way or another pointing fingers at either STS or SMB. There is no way they can make an argument in favour of SMS by maligning SKQ and it does not also malign STS or SMB.



Universaldad
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:50 am

#36

Unread post by Universaldad » Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:53 pm

kimanumanu wrote:And this is the biggest problem they have - all their attempts to malign SKQ end up in one way or another pointing fingers at either STS or SMB. There is no way they can make an argument in favour of SMS by maligning SKQ and it does not also malign STS or SMB.
You Qutbi's and Munafakeens are so stupid it's simply ridiculous.

How dare you compare KQ's rotting corpse to that of a dua't. Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA body was brought to Mumbai with a day of his wafat. There was no embalming and delay in janaza Mubarak.

KQ just had to face this delay and Azab. His corpse doused in alcohol rotting for over 11 days. Shame on WTF and the Qutbi of Evil. Heard his wife Sakina who does a lot of black magic has been doing some satanic rituals on his body.

Gone straight to hell KQ has.



kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

#37

Unread post by kimanumanu » Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:59 pm

Why has your life turned to hell though? Can't find any other heaven like place other than this forum right? You are welcome though to enjoy the fruits that your master is denying you with his boring soap serials.



objectiveobserver53
Posts: 331
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

#38

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:34 pm

Universaldad wrote: Gone straight to hell KQ has.
How do you know? Did your best friends and family who are burning there send you an email?



ajamali
Posts: 296
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

#39

Unread post by ajamali » Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:41 pm

objectiveobserver53 wrote:
Universaldad wrote: Gone straight to hell KQ has.
How do you know? Did your best friends and family who are burning there send you an email?
Unidad's best friends and family appear to him every once in a while from their heated torture chambers and they have to be expelled by forcefeeding Unidad some horrid thaali food.



bohrabhai
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:16 am

#40

Unread post by bohrabhai » Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:04 am

54 માં દાઈ તાહેર ફખરુદ્દીન સાહેબ માટે અનુયાયીઓને આકર્ષવાનો રાજ માર્ગ.



જાન્યુઆરી 2014 થી માર્ચ 2016 સુધીનાં 27 મહિનામાં 53માં દાઈ ખોજેમાં કુત્બુદ્દીન સાહેબ પોતાનાં અનુયાયીઓમાં ખાસ વધારો કરી શક્યા ન હતાં. એ વખતે મારી માન્યતા જે મેં વ્યક્ત કરી હતી એ જ ફરી રજૂ કરું છું.

મોમીનોનાં વિશાળ સમુદાયથી દૂર થાણે જેવાં એકાંત સ્થળેથી સોસીયલ મીડીયા વડે પ્રચાર કરવા માત્રથી મોમીનોનો સાથ સહકાર મેળવી શકાય નહિ. એમની પાયાની જરૂરીયાતો જેવીકે, મસ્જીદ,કબસ્તાન, મદરેસાં,જુમાતખાનું અને મઝહબી કામો માટે આમીલ મુલ્લાં વગેરની ગેર હાજરીમાં મોમીનો આપનાં તરફ સહાનુભૂતિ ધરાવતાં હોય તો પણ આપનાં પક્ષે આવી ન શકે; આ જમીની હકીકત છે. મારી માન્યતાનાં સમર્થનમાં મેં રાજા રજવાડાનાં સમયની વાત લખેલી કે, કોઈ રાજા લડાઈમાં કે રાજકીય કાવત્રામાં રાજ સત્તાં ગુમાવે ત્યારે સંકટ સમય માટે સાચવી રાખેલો ખજાનો ઉપયોગમાં લઇ સૈન્ય અને શસ્ત્રો એકઠાંકરી સત્તા ફરી હાંસલ કરવાં કોશીશ કરતાં. આ પેટર્નનો ઉપયોગ તાહેર ફખરુદ્દીન સાહેબ કરી શકે. વહોરાઓનો મોટો સમુદાય ગુજરાત,રાજસ્થાન, મહારાષ્ટ્ર અને મધ્યપ્રદેશમાં વસેલો છે. દરેક રાજ્યો માંથી 200-500 ઘરની વસ્તીવાળાં નાના શહેર-ટાઉનને દત્તક લઈને ત્યાં પોતાનાં ખર્ચે મસ્જીદ,કબસ્તાન, મદરેસાં, જુમાતખાનું અને મઝહબી કામો માટે આમીલ મુલ્લાંની નીમણૂક જેવી પાયાની જરૂરીયાતો ઉભી કરે. પૂરતી સગવડો સાથેનો વિકલ્પ ઉભો થતાં, કોમની અત્યારની ગેર વ્યવસ્થાથી અકળાયેલાં લોકો તમારાં તરફ આવવા પ્રેરાશે. પછીનું કામ કોમને જૂની અને સડેલી ઘરેડમાંથી બહાર કાઢીને આધુનિક જીવન પદ્ધતિ તરફ વાળવાનું છે. આ માટે આપે ખુદને બદલવાની તૈયારી રાખવી પડશે.દાઈ રોયલ ફેમીલી છે અને મોમીનો ગુલામો છે એ બીમાર માનસિકતા છે. બરીબ મોમીનોનાં ખૂન પસીનાનાં પૈસે વિલાસી જીવન જીવતાં આમીલોને સાદગી સભર જીવન જીવવાની આપે તાકીદ કરવી પડશે. 'ફન ફેર' જેવાં મહોર્રમના તમાશાનું સ્થાન ખરાં અર્થમાં 'ગમે હુસેન' ને આપવું પડશે. સમાજમાં વર્ગભેદ ઉભો કરતાં શૈખ-મુલ્લાં જેવાં ગુજરી બજાર ટાઈપ ટાઈટલોને વિદાય આપવી પડશે. સલામ, નજવા જીયાફતો વગેરે વેપારી વર્ગને મૂડી વિહોણા કરે છે. જે બંધ કરવાં પડશે.

શીયા મુસ્લીમ એવાં ઈસમાઈલી ખોજાંનાં હાજર ઈમામ નામદાર આગાખાન એમનાં અનુયાયીઓને જે રીતે દોરવણી આપે છે, એ નમૂનેદાર છે. કોમની અલગ ઓળખ ઉભી કરવાના કોઈ ફેન ફતુર નથી. દાઢી, ટોપી કુર્તા રીદા E-Jamat જેવાં કોઈ દેખાડા વગર એજયુકેશન અને વેપારમાં અગ્રેસર એવી ખોજા કોમ બીજી કોમથી જૂદા દેખાવાની પંચાતમાં પડવાને બદલે તમામ કોમોમાં દૂધમાં સાકર ની માફક ભળી ગઈ છે. આપણી કોમ માટે આપ આ બધું કરી શકો તો કોમ છેલ્લાં 100 વર્ષની યાતનાઓને દુ:સ્વપ્ન ગણી ભૂલી જવાં તૈયાર છે.



Aminullah
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:45 pm

#41

Unread post by Aminullah » Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:26 am

je bhai ye aa lakhu che, bau behtareen ane sacchu lakhu he, mubarak.



fustrate_Bohra
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:46 am

#42

Unread post by fustrate_Bohra » Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:53 am

Can somebody translate the above gujarati post in english. Thanks



juzer esmail
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:24 am

#43

Unread post by juzer esmail » Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:43 am

Great article in the truest sense. Thanks



Dumbledore
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:30 am

#44

Unread post by Dumbledore » Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:10 am

Nice article



gulam_parinda
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:46 am

#45

Unread post by gulam_parinda » Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:15 pm

Good article ...Please translate it in English and Hindi



james
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

#46

Unread post by james » Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:51 pm

kimanumanu wrote:And this is the biggest problem they have - all their attempts to malign SKQ end up in one way or another pointing fingers at either STS or SMB. There is no way they can make an argument in favour of SMS by maligning SKQ and it does not also malign STS or SMB.
You are desperately clutching at straws here.



qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 992
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

#47

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:56 am

Saif53 wrote:FROM THE QUTBI BOHRA BLOG:
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2016/04 ... art-1.html
Dear Mr Taher - Part 1
Taher Qutbuddin, son of Khuzaima Qutbuddin has now been named 2nd Qutbi Bohra leader. Khuzaima Qutbuddin's alleged claim for Nass was baseless - therefore any claim that follows KQ's has no grounds - including Taher's.

The Quran e Majeed describes the fate of zalemeen in the following Ayat [09:109]:

أفمن أسس بنيانه على تقوى من الله ورضوان خير أم من أسس بنيانه على شفا جرف هار فانهار به في نار جهنم والله لا يهدي القوم الظالمين

[Is he who founded his building upon taqwa of Allah and His ridwaan (happiness) better; or he who founded his building on the brink of a crumbling, overhanging precipice so that it toppled with him into the fire of hell? Allah doesn't grant hidayat to the zalemeen.]

The Hon. Justice Patel perfectly summed up Taher's predicament. "He claims have become appointee of an appointee. If he can establish any of this, will have to be seen,'' said Justice Patel.


your article though very well and intelligently written has basic flaw.
as judge said, stf has to prove first kq is valid dai, till he proves that his claim is redundant.
same can be said about ur post.
all the allegation and arguement of urs would be valid if there is claimant to stf.
nass debate started basically coz of kqs claim of dai.
here no one questions the daiship of stf, so all ur arguements do not hold any weightage.



james
Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:06 am

#48

Unread post by james » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:44 pm

qutub_mamajiwala wrote:
here no one questions the daiship of stf, so all ur arguements do not hold any weightage.
Don't you find that strange?

The followers of Khuzaima Qutbuddin were informed of Taher Qutbuddin as their Leader after his death.No mazoon or mukasir were appointed by Khuzaima Qutbuddin.The administrative office of Khuzaima makes this announcement about Taher Qutbuddin being their new leader hours after his death. Don't you think the administrative office have hijacked Khuzaima's seat?

It is also strange the alleged Letter written by Khuzaima in favor of Taher Qutbuddin doesn't mention any witnesses nor does it say that he ordered them to keep this event as secret.

Do you reckon Khuzaima Qutbuddin feared that 'Talwaro chali jate' ?

Do i see a new haq su che video made by Director Taizoon in the near future? :mrgreen:



Wajid
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:52 pm

#49

Unread post by Wajid » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:04 pm

james wrote:
qutub_mamajiwala wrote:
here no one questions the daiship of stf, so all ur arguements do not hold any weightage.
Don't you find that strange?

The followers of Khuzaima Qutbuddin were informed of Taher Qutbuddin as their Leader after his death.No mazoon or mukasir were appointed by Khuzaima Qutbuddin.The administrative office of Khuzaima makes this announcement about Taher Qutbuddin being their new leader hours after his death ... bla bla bla bla bla ... :
Salaams again,

There are very few people who have paid allegence to SKQ (ra) or STF (tus) in open.

Your numbers with the MS toli (willing or unwilling) are hundreds of thousands of times higher than ours. So if you are indeed on Haq, why bother ? Let the ones on batil perish. After all, Allah says :

وَقُلْ جَاء الْحَقُّ وَزَهَقَ الْبَاطِلُ إِنَّ الْبَاطِلَ كَانَ زَهُوقًا (17:81)
And say: "The truth has now come [to light], and falsehood has withered away: for, behold, all falsehood is bound to wither away!" - 17:81

Fi AmanIllah



humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

#50

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:49 am

In all this tamasha, Imam-uz-zaman too is taking a back seat, munching on to popcorn and sipping cola. heck of a reality show !



Saif53
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

#51

Unread post by Saif53 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:50 pm

FROM THE QUTBI BOHRA BLOG
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2016/04 ... r-was.html
How do the Qutbi Bohras know that Taher was appointed by KQ?
How do the Qutbi Bohras know that Taher was appointed by KQ?

The question is simple, but the answer leaves the Qutbi Bohras dumbfounded without any explanation.

The true Fatemi tenets state the following:

A) Nass & Tawqeef (appoint witnesses) is the only way to appoint a Mansoos.

In the first chapter of Daim ul Islam, Syedna Qadi Noman RA lays down the simple rules. He says:

"If they ask us, how is (the continuity) of Imamat? We say: “It is by Nass & Tawqeef” – so that there cannot be any hujjat or argument (against us)."

[Daim ul Islam – Chapter 1, Syedna Qadi Noman RA]

More details can be found in the link below:
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2016/03 ... -know.html


B) How should the news (paighaam) of a Nass be conveyed (to the people)?

Syedna Hamiduddin al Kirmani RA states:

“What is that thing by which ‘Nas’ is proved?” it asks, and replies:
“As to those who are present and see to them ‘Nas’ is proved by pointing out to them and informing them of the successor, and to those who are absent ‘Nas’ is proved by information communicated to them by such persons who will be considered as authority.”

[Translation Accepted by Both Parties (The Privy Council Judgement Page 8) - Original text from Risalah al Wadhiyah – Syedna Hamiduddin al Kirmani RA]

Syedna Taiyeb Zainuddin's RA unambiguously outlines the system of Nass in his Risalah Shareefah. He says:

"You will see that every Nabi, Wasi & Imam has been appointed through Nass. Indeed Nass is the order and system of Deen. (Every) predecessor Saheb performed a clear Nass and announced it - without leaving it ambiguous. And He (the predecessor) instructed the people of his dawat to do Ta'at (obey) of the Mansoos... this has been the system right from Adam AS"

[Risala Anhaar Fuyooz al Fatimiyeen Page 528]

***
KQ claimed neither Point A nor Point B mentioned above. He confessed he had no witnesses (Point A), therefore there was obviously no conveyance of his alleged Nass (Point B).

Despite KQ's confession however, he and the Qutbi Bohras argued one of the following:

Since KQ was the Mazoon for 50 years - therefore he's the Dai. (Refuted here http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2014/07 ... years.html)
Since Burhanuddin Moula RA (according to them) - did not make any Nass public, people must automatically listen to the Mazoon when in doubt. (Refuted here https://believesyednaqutbuddin.com/2014 ... -of-essays)
(According to the Qutbis) The Mazoon is the "tongue of truth" - and since he is claiming Nass for himself, his words are beyond any doubt in comparison to other Shehzadas. (Refuted here http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2015/04 ... t-one.html and here http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2015/04 ... t-two.html)

***
In the case of Taher Qutbuddin/Fakhruddin there are many fundamental flaws.

KQ did not inform the people of his dawat (refer Point B above). If he did, then they (including Mrs Sakina) have not testified in favour of Taher - they are not "witnesses" - therefore the alleged Nass on Taher is invalid. (Read http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2016/04 ... art-1.html & http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2016/04 ... art-2.html)
There is no audio or video proof that KQ performed Nass on Taher.

Taher produced a document allegedly prepared by KQ. A document on its own (without witnesses) is not a basis for Nass.
About 6 hours after the death of KQ, The Fatemi Dawat website sent out an email about Taher's succession. Taher later recorded a video claiming a secret Nass and announcing that he was the Mansoos - and that his witnesses are private. Taher cannot simply "announce" or "claim" he's the Mansoos - he needed to be appointed through Nass & Tawqeef.
Taher wasn't KQ's Mazoon for even 50 seconds, therefore the argument that - Taher was "the tongue of truth" and therefore he must be trusted over others - doesn't exist.
In the "Nazaraat" section of the Qutbi site, they listed multiple incidents of KQ with Burhanuddin Moula RA - where they inferred that he had to be the Mansoos. Building on their own argument, Taher's entire "life achievements" have been documented in a meagre 6 paragraphs on their site. Therefore - according to Qutbi logic - he cannot be the Dai.

It has been more than 15 days since KQ's death, and there is absolutely NO basis for Taher's succession. Which brings us once again to the million dollar question:
How do the Qutbi Bohras know that Taher was indeed appointed by KQ?

It is very likely that KQ died intestate without doing any wasiyyat.
It is also possible that the Qutbi Bohras just accepted Taher's appointment as a valid one, because:

There are not aware about the basic tenets of Nass & Tawqeef.
They didn't have any other choice but to "go with the flow".

Let me once again remind the Qutbi Bohras that Nass cannot be based on "guesswork" or personal fancies.

Concluding:
If the Qutbi Bohras truly understood Fatemi belief, they would have realized the fallacies in KQ's argument. But, just in case they were misled by the empowering "love" they had for KQ, then they have been given a divine second chance to reevaluate their position and accept their mistake.

Will they continue to follow Taher (who hasn't been appointed by any Nass of KQ), after KQ (who wasn't appointed by any Nass either)?
Will they accept Taher who has been described by many who know him personally as a فظا غليظ القلب (severe or harsh-hearted) person?

Or, would they follow Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS - who was appointed through Nass & Tawqeef by Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA himself and through the system of Dawat.

Quoting the Qutbi Bohra Sijill #113 - and using their own words unto them:

"While some lay claim that the word of Allah can be changed on a whim, we mumineen understand that in matters of succession, the word of Allah is not only firm and resolute but predetermined from the beginning of time.


The Qutbi Bohras must come to terms that the system of Nass cannot be "changed on a whim" by KQ nor Taher. Nass & Tawqeef is "not only firm and resolute but predetermined from the beginning of time."
***



I Rizwan
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:33 am

#52

Unread post by I Rizwan » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:39 am

This is called baigaane ki shadi mein abdulah deewana...

till now no mufaddali abde replied why they think mufaddal saifuddin is dai and what makes him qualified to be dai? and now they are poking nose why STF is dai or not? amazing show of hypocrisy.



Saif53
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

#53

Unread post by Saif53 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:45 am

FROM THE QUTBI BOHRA BLOG:
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2016/04 ... rrors.html
Taher's Qasida Errors
(Article written by a reader named "Zahra")

On the passing away of KQ, the Fatemi Dawat has officially published a Qasidah of Taher as a salaam to KQ and instructed all their followers to recite.

The Qutbi Bohras, or more precisely TB, continues to make grave errors in translating from Arabic to Lisan ud Dawat to English, to the extent that their own texts are wrongly translated. This qasidah has multiple inaccuracies that a humble student like me can spot.

Taher’s Qasidah is an Official Copyright publication by his Office. I have concentrated on only the grammatical and translation discrepancies. Despite their scholarly claims – their academic ignorance is embarrassing if not unacceptable.

Note: This article does not focus on the issue of Nass which is the fundamental ground which refutes the Qutbi Bohra claim. There are many Qutbi Bohra followers that are wooed by The Qutbi Children’s academic success and infer that they are on Haq. These elementary mistakes will confirm to them that “all that glitters isn’t gold”.

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kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

#54

Unread post by kimanumanu » Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:58 am

Makes me laugh .... they are dawat na dushmano but you keep going to their website and even working hard to do their translation for them. Bravo :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:



I Rizwan
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:33 am

#55

Unread post by I Rizwan » Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:41 am

clearly jamiya jungli students are behind that website, they might be good in arabic but they failed in humanity...
it doesnt matter if fehwa/lahan or arabic grammar is correct or wrong, qasida is qasida and not Quran.....
what matter is attitude towards the poor and needy and what leader does to help people.
I would prefer a good human being as a leader rather than an Arabic expert who knows nothing but to enjoy ayyashi in his air condition office.

PS - any ways I am pretty sure STF arabic is far better than 7th fail fake doctorate degree holder mufaddal saifuddin. :D
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qjbj
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:47 pm

#56

Unread post by qjbj » Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:21 pm

Just saw the speech STF made to Yemen momeenin. Wow what great command of Arabic and no looking at notes. Puts MS to shame.



think_for_yourself
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

#57

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:30 pm

Cross posting a post I made under another topic
think_for_yourself wrote:From scanning some of the posts here, it appears that the full-time hate mongers in Mufaddal Saifuddin's employ have criticised the Arabic language skills of our Moula TUS.... It amuses me that the followers of a man who cannot construct 5 meaningful sentences in ANY language should make this criticism 8)



kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

#58

Unread post by kimanumanu » Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:34 pm

Just an observation but he appeared to be reading from somewhere?



UnhappyBohra
Posts: 531
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

#59

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:39 pm

think_for_yourself wrote:Cross posting a post I made under another topic
think_for_yourself wrote:From scanning some of the posts here, it appears that the full-time hate mongers in Mufaddal Saifuddin's employ have criticised the Arabic language skills of our Moula TUS.... It amuses me that the followers of a man who cannot construct 5 meaningful sentences in ANY language should make this criticism 8)
Hee hee. I still remember the MS speech on the profound topic of Surat and Muniras.....I think it went something like this..."Surat maa ghani Munira che....Tamey sagla jaantaj haso koi Munira ne. Jano cho ne Munira ne mumineen. Mein bhi janu chu kai ek Munira ne je Surat maa rahey che...".....W-T-F..., and I mean WTF, not some person :lol:



UnhappyBohra
Posts: 531
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

#60

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:48 pm

kimanumanu wrote:Just an observation but he appeared to be reading from somewhere?

It looked to me like he was looking into the camera on a laptop - no lateral eye movements of a reader....

I agree with qjbj though. Head and shoulders above anything MS could do even after days of coaching.....