Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Bohra spring
Posts: 1295
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#631

Unread post by Bohra spring » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:49 pm

During the 23 years of Muhammad's time as a prophet, the verses of the Quran were memorized as they were revealed, and about 42 scribes wrote the verses on different materials such as paper, cloth, bone fragments and leather.

In ancient times, literacy was a skill that few people had and Muhammad himself did not know how to read or write.

During the time of Caliph Abu Bakr, when 70 people who knew the Quran by heart (qari), were killed in the Battle of Yamama, Umar ibn al-Khattab became concerned and appealed to Abu Bakr in order to compile the Quran into a book.

Abu Bakr formed a delegation under the leadership of Zaid ibn Thabit, one of the leading scribes.


This delegation of 12 people, including famous figures such as Uthman ibn Affan, Ali ibn Abi Talib, Talha ibn Ubaydullah, Abdullah ibn Masood, Ubayy ibn Kab, Khalid ibn al-Walid, Hudhaifah and Saleem, came together in Umar's house and collected all the materials on which verses from the Quran were written.

In addition, the verses memorized by the companions were heard as well. Each of them was asked to show two witnesses for the verse they read.

Mushaf

Thus, all the verses of the Quran that describe the creation of the universe and people, judgment day, exemplary stories of the people who lived before and the beliefs, worship, morals and legal bases that believers should obey were collected together into a single-volume book. Each of the verses was taught by the archangel Gabriel and declared by Prophet Muhammad. The verse is the name given to each sentence of the Quran and the surah is the name given to each part of the holy book. There are 6,236 verses, 114 surahs and about 323,000 letters in the Quran.


Saeed ibn al-Aas, who was renowned for the beauty of his handwriting, wrote them down on gazelle skin. The writing used was the Arabic script of the time, which was already old and used commonly at that time in Hejaz.

The companions reached a consensus that this writing, which was used by Prophet Ismail in Hejaz, is the writing of Muslims.

The copy of the Quran was recited to the companions at a general meeting. There was no objection. So, a book called "mushaf" emerged, which means written verses.

A total of 33,000 companions agreed that every letter of the Quran was in the right place. Then this mushaf was sent to Umar ibn al-Khattab. After his death, this book passed on to Hazrat Hafsah, the daughter of Umar and a wife of Prophet Muhammad.

Dialect of Quraysh

A difference was observed in the recitation of the Quran in the Armenia battles between Muslims from Damascus and Iraq during the period of the third caliph, Uthman.

Hudhaifah, one of the companions, went before the caliph on his way back from an expedition and asked him to prevent this.


On the 25th year of the hijra (647), Uthman gathered a delegation attended by Abdullah ibn al-Zubair, Saeed ibn al-Aas and Abd al-Rahman ibn Harith under the leadership of Zaid ibn Thabit. All of them, except for Zaid, were from Quraysh. Uthman said that the dialect of Quraysh should be preferred if they were to fall into conflict with Zaid regarding the dialect, since Muhammad was from the Quraysh tribe. The Quran had been revealed in seven dialects of the Arabic language of the time.

The first Muslims who were literate could easily read the writing of their own language, but somewhat differently, since at the time the Arabic script did not have diacritical marks to differentiate letters or vowel symbols.

For example, those from the Tameem tribe pronounced the letter "sin" as "te" and read the word "nas" as "nat." It was diverse and convenient, and did not change the meaning.

The delegation brought the original mushaf from Hafsah. In this mushaf, the surahs were not separated from each other. The surahs were sorted according to the order of their descent in Ali's manuscript and according to their lengths in the manuscript of Abdullah ibn Masood.


Now the verses were written in the Quraysh dialect. The surahs were arranged in rows, separated from each other regarding their length and alignment with each other. The order of the surahs was not based on the order the archangel Gabriel gave them to Prophet Muhammad, but on the consensus of the companions.

Seven copies

The old copies were destroyed to prevent future conflicts. Because of this, there are some Shia sects that accusing Uthman of changing the Quran.

From the new copy, some mushafs were also written on parchment and sent to different places such as Bahrain, Damascus, Basra, Kufa, Yemen and Mecca, accompanied by a qari. There are also rumors that copies were sent to Egypt and Jazeera.

The copy that stayed with the caliph was called al-Mushaf al-Imam (the head mushaf). There is no difference between the mushafs recited around the world today since they were all copied from original copies.

Thus, the Quran was written during Muhammad's lifetime, while its compilation was done during the caliphate of Abu Bakr and it was copied during the caliphate of Uthman.

Uthman also established special schools for the correct recitation and writing of the Quran. During the caliphate of Ali, saw the introduction of diacritical marks. During the time of Umayyad Caliph Abd al-Malik, vowel marks were also added.

bohra_manus
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#632

Unread post by bohra_manus » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:47 pm

Great Info Br Bohra Spring.
Jazkallah!

Qadir
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:28 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#633

Unread post by Qadir » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:58 am

Bohra spring wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:03 pm
About a 2 year old Imam. How could he have communicated theology at that tender age. If he spoke to his Diai. How do you know for sure Imam spoke or Diai spoke.

My point the only book and knowledge that is protected is Quran it says it and is tested, and evidence remains . I believe it's the communication to Prophet SAW. Anything else is manmade. If one wants to believe so be it. If not so be it.

Now 1000 years later Diai want to innovate and add spice stretch the stories so people enjoy bayan and keep going from one place of the planet to another holding hands go for it. That's for you guys.

My issue is the Prophet SAW did not ask me directly to worship some scholarly dude SMS or STF . I believe if his grandson gave his life for the honor of his prophet saw. He too would be horrified what later Imams, Khalifa Diai, Ulema, Ayatollahs have done to Islam. I would go as far as some of our belief are worse than what Yazid would have done to contaminate Islam if he was successful.
In Surah Maryam, Allah mentions that Yahya Nabi was given the wisdom of theology from childhood.

The dawat na kitabo are not fabrication like you believe. Maybe its just that you are so full of hasad that you are getting away from Iman.

kseeker
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#634

Unread post by kseeker » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:33 am

Bohra spring wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:49 pm
During the 23 years of Muhammad's time as a prophet, the verses of the Quran were memorized as they were revealed, and about 42 scribes wrote the verses on different materials such as paper, cloth, bone fragments and leather.

In ancient times, literacy was a skill that few people had and Muhammad himself did not know how to read or write.

During the time of Caliph Abu Bakr, when 70 people who knew the Quran by heart (qari), were killed in the Battle of Yamama, Umar ibn al-Khattab became concerned and appealed to Abu Bakr in order to compile the Quran into a book.

Abu Bakr formed a delegation under the leadership of Zaid ibn Thabit, one of the leading scribes.


This delegation of 12 people, including famous figures such as Uthman ibn Affan, Ali ibn Abi Talib, Talha ibn Ubaydullah, Abdullah ibn Masood, Ubayy ibn Kab, Khalid ibn al-Walid, Hudhaifah and Saleem, came together in Umar's house and collected all the materials on which verses from the Quran were written.

In addition, the verses memorized by the companions were heard as well. Each of them was asked to show two witnesses for the verse they read.

Mushaf

Thus, all the verses of the Quran that describe the creation of the universe and people, judgment day, exemplary stories of the people who lived before and the beliefs, worship, morals and legal bases that believers should obey were collected together into a single-volume book. Each of the verses was taught by the archangel Gabriel and declared by Prophet Muhammad. The verse is the name given to each sentence of the Quran and the surah is the name given to each part of the holy book. There are 6,236 verses, 114 surahs and about 323,000 letters in the Quran.


Saeed ibn al-Aas, who was renowned for the beauty of his handwriting, wrote them down on gazelle skin. The writing used was the Arabic script of the time, which was already old and used commonly at that time in Hejaz.

The companions reached a consensus that this writing, which was used by Prophet Ismail in Hejaz, is the writing of Muslims.

The copy of the Quran was recited to the companions at a general meeting. There was no objection. So, a book called "mushaf" emerged, which means written verses.

A total of 33,000 companions agreed that every letter of the Quran was in the right place. Then this mushaf was sent to Umar ibn al-Khattab. After his death, this book passed on to Hazrat Hafsah, the daughter of Umar and a wife of Prophet Muhammad.

Dialect of Quraysh

A difference was observed in the recitation of the Quran in the Armenia battles between Muslims from Damascus and Iraq during the period of the third caliph, Uthman.

Hudhaifah, one of the companions, went before the caliph on his way back from an expedition and asked him to prevent this.


On the 25th year of the hijra (647), Uthman gathered a delegation attended by Abdullah ibn al-Zubair, Saeed ibn al-Aas and Abd al-Rahman ibn Harith under the leadership of Zaid ibn Thabit. All of them, except for Zaid, were from Quraysh. Uthman said that the dialect of Quraysh should be preferred if they were to fall into conflict with Zaid regarding the dialect, since Muhammad was from the Quraysh tribe. The Quran had been revealed in seven dialects of the Arabic language of the time.

The first Muslims who were literate could easily read the writing of their own language, but somewhat differently, since at the time the Arabic script did not have diacritical marks to differentiate letters or vowel symbols.

For example, those from the Tameem tribe pronounced the letter "sin" as "te" and read the word "nas" as "nat." It was diverse and convenient, and did not change the meaning.

The delegation brought the original mushaf from Hafsah. In this mushaf, the surahs were not separated from each other. The surahs were sorted according to the order of their descent in Ali's manuscript and according to their lengths in the manuscript of Abdullah ibn Masood.


Now the verses were written in the Quraysh dialect. The surahs were arranged in rows, separated from each other regarding their length and alignment with each other. The order of the surahs was not based on the order the archangel Gabriel gave them to Prophet Muhammad, but on the consensus of the companions.

Seven copies

The old copies were destroyed to prevent future conflicts. Because of this, there are some Shia sects that accusing Uthman of changing the Quran.

From the new copy, some mushafs were also written on parchment and sent to different places such as Bahrain, Damascus, Basra, Kufa, Yemen and Mecca, accompanied by a qari. There are also rumors that copies were sent to Egypt and Jazeera.

The copy that stayed with the caliph was called al-Mushaf al-Imam (the head mushaf). There is no difference between the mushafs recited around the world today since they were all copied from original copies.

Thus, the Quran was written during Muhammad's lifetime, while its compilation was done during the caliphate of Abu Bakr and it was copied during the caliphate of Uthman.

Uthman also established special schools for the correct recitation and writing of the Quran. During the caliphate of Ali, saw the introduction of diacritical marks. During the time of Umayyad Caliph Abd al-Malik, vowel marks were also added.
When you copy paste someone's work, please give them credit or put the link of the article you copy from:

Code: Select all

https://www.dailysabah.com/feature/2017/06/02/history-of-the-compilation-of-quran

momeenbhai
Posts: 641
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:31 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#635

Unread post by momeenbhai » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:46 am

True. Muffy should also give credit for topi and dhadhi and rida to Muhammed saw and should not portrait that he is the one who is commending it.

Muffy should take name of ALLAH and MUHAMMED more often than the name of his father and grandfather to give credits.

it should be Rasulullah naa farmaan and not Muffy naa farmaan for implementation of shariyah.

momeenbhai
Posts: 641
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:31 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#636

Unread post by momeenbhai » Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:19 am

3 idiots of KQ who thinks haq ni dawat is baap ki jaagir and they have all rights to distribute it amount themself.


[DELETED][
Attachments
2019-10-23_15-48_fatemi dawat.jpg

momeenbhai
Posts: 641
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:31 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#637

Unread post by momeenbhai » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:20 am


dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 564
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#638

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:16 pm

STF, in his milad waiz, in the last 1 minute (Go to about 40.2 minutes) referred to the current situation (halaat) in India and prayed for peace and security for all muslims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOtzTeFDd8M

I think that is nice. Wanted to point it out here.

SBM
Posts: 6250
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#639

Unread post by SBM » Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:24 pm


RedBox
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#640

Unread post by RedBox » Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:45 pm

I could write few things here, but since she is mother I dont want to point out what went wrong and how it was wrong. any ways.

Mkenya
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#641

Unread post by Mkenya » Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:58 am

dal-chaval-palidu wrote:
STF, in his milad waiz, in the last 1 minute (Go to about 40.2 minutes) referred to the current situation (halaat) in India and prayed for peace and security for all muslims.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOtzTeFDd8M
I think that is nice. Wanted to point it out here.

STF, like many Muslim leaders, is being diplomatic. These are trying times for minorities in India and let us hope that saner heads would prevail.

SBM
Posts: 6250
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#642

Unread post by SBM » Wed Dec 25, 2019 5:51 pm

RedBox wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:45 pm
I could write few things here, but since she is mother I dont want to point out what went wrong and how it was wrong. any ways.
That has never stopped Abdes/Amtes sending LAANAAT and use foul language in the past

Saif53
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#643

Unread post by Saif53 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:27 am

SBM wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:24 pm
Arwa Qutbuddin on Parenting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXuPwo0ZeIM
Qutbi Bohra comments on this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXuPwo0ZeIM
Arwa Qutbuddin is twisting the truth and fails to mention the following facts:

1. She claims the children are victims of parental alienation, when in fact, she is the one who abducted her children during their grandfather's funeral. She chose this exact moment to kidnap them, very well knowing that the entire family was occupied in mourning and funeral rites. It was she that alienated the children from their father, and prevented them from contacting him.

2. She claims the children's father brainwashed the kids, when in fact, just after the kidnapping, she forced her young son to issue a statement on YouTube pledging allegiance to her father.

3. She took the children to Bakersfield USA and locked them up in her brother's house. Here, they were under house arrest, physically and emotionally abused by her brother Taher Fakhruddin (aka Taher Qutbuddin). They were even denied basic food and sanitation.

4. She claims the courts rejected her and didn't support her position. When in fact, the USA and Indian courts offered her a lengthy court trial and looked into all aspects of the case and offered judgements in favour of the father and the wishes of the children.

5. The court even went on further to say that, the "[c]ourt does not find Petitioner credible". In other words, Arwa Qutbuddin a pathological liar who misused the legal and immigration systems of USA and India and suffered the consequences.

RedBox
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#644

Unread post by RedBox » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:19 am

Valid points I was going to write the same. kidnaping kids without father consent just for the sake of belief is wrong on so many levels. Imagine if the father was some poor guy he would not be able to see his kids all his life.

SBM
Posts: 6250
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#645

Unread post by SBM » Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:00 pm

"She claims the children's father brainwashed the kids,"
Over 100,00 Abdes and Amtes are already brainwashed, so why it is not possible to brainwash young children?
"She took the children to Bakersfield USA and locked them up in her brother's house."
I donot know if you reside in USA or India because if the children are locked up in the house and some one files a complains, the Dept of Children and Families take over the children and put them Foster Care. I am sure if children were locked up, Muffaddali Goons would have called up DCF would have taken custody of them
"Arwa Qutbuddin a pathological liar who misused the legal"
It runs in the genes of the family. Look at the abuse of legal system in Nass Case as well Galla case through out STS reign

Bohra spring
Posts: 1295
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#646

Unread post by Bohra spring » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:46 am

STF appointing his brothers to 2 other positions and his sister lying in court destroying all credibility.

Reformists only support STF because he is a useful threat to SMS.

Mkenya
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#647

Unread post by Mkenya » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:41 am

SMS and STF are both different sides of the same alloy coin.

Bohra Spring: I like your choice of the phrase: "useful threat". A threat Reformists believe will someday translate into .....?

Biradar
Posts: 877
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#648

Unread post by Biradar » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:07 pm

Some people, ignorant of history (and everything else that really matters), do not realize that the position of da'i al-mutlaq and mazoon and muqasir usually have remained in very few families for long periods of time. For example, before the dawaat moved to India all 23 of the da'is in Yemen were from just three families. The first India da'i (24th da'i al-mutlaq) was S. Yusuf b. Sulayman. Before him the three families that produced all other duat mutlaqeen are:
  • The al-Wadi'i family. The 1st da'i (S Dhu'ayb bin Musa); the 6th (S Ali b. Hanzala); the 10th (Ali b. Husan b. Ali)
  • The al-Hamidi family. The 2nd da'i (S. Ibrahim) and his son the 3rd da'i (S. Hatim) and his (S. Hatim's) son the 4th da'i (S. Ali b. Hatim)
  • The Banu'l-Walid family supplied all the remaining da'is in Yemen. The first in this chain was the 5th da'i S. Ali b. Muhammad and includes one of the most prolific of authors, S. Idris Imad al-Din who wrote extensively on history, haqqaiq and other topics.
Hence, it is not unusual at all that the da'i's position remains in a single family for long periods of time. It is actually rather natural. After all, close proximity means that the education of the future da'i can be undertaken in a more intensive manner. Of course, often from the children of a particular da'i no one may be suitable and hence the da'i's position then shifts to another family. However, the appointment of one's brothers, children or nephews to the da'i's position is not at all unusual.

Also, except in exceptional situations, when a person is appointed a da'i, his ancestors are already very closely associated with the dawaat, performing service for perhaps even several generations. It almost never happens that some random person is selected to succeed to this high post. Even the first da'i, S. Dhu'ayb bin Musa, came from a highly distinguished family of leaders who were critical to the sustenance of the dawaat in Egypt as well as Yemen.

Biradar
Posts: 877
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#649

Unread post by Biradar » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:39 pm

I find it interesting that people here assume that Arwa Qutbuddin was lying. Frankly, it smacks of misogyny and sexism. I am not surprised, though, as some Bohra men are very sexist. One can't expect any better from them, though one would think that at least a few folks here would not be such. The reality, though, is the opposite. Muffi's Iblisi Toli has brainwashed the kids, parading them in public, making them denounce their mother, uncles and grandfather in public, curse them and completely turn them against their own kin. It is also likely that the marriage was not a happy one, as Muffy was always opposing his own father and machinating against his father's mazoon for 50 years. This must have spilled over in Arwa Qutbuddin's marriage also. By all accounts, Muffy's boys are even more insane than him. In any case, let her deal with her grief in her own way.

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 564
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

#650

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:40 pm

SBM wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:24 pm
Arwa Qutbuddin on Parenting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXuPwo0ZeIM
Now that this TED talk has 12000+ views, and comments are allowed on this TED talk, one can see some of the criticisms, and sadly, the hate messages that she has got. And there are some messages of support too.

My opinion is that she/FD made mistakes, but the other side is making a mistake too. Two wrongs don't make a right, and the status of mother in Islam is so clear (from the sayings of the Prophet, PBUH), that this approach that the other side is taking is wrong.

Just my observation