Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
ajamali
Posts: 480
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#1

Unread post by ajamali » Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:52 pm

Can't put my finger on what has caused it. Perhaps it is the sum total of our experiences since the death of Burhanuddin Moula's Mazoon, but lately there has been a pall over our communities. It was after the burning of the effigy when we began to ask ourselves if we would ever object to anything at all that the clergy direct us to do - however despicable we find it. Are we just going to submit to all their directives however indecent? Have we finally reverted full circle to the jaahiliat of the pre-Rasulullah SAW era? We did not object when they started circulating videos containing filthy languages, did not object when they provoked laanat at every majlis, did not object when they celebrated a death and did not object when they burnt an effigy and we did not object when a child gave a hate filled speech in which he referred disrespectfully to his mother and mocked his gradfather's disability. Our entire existence is so steeped in hatred that we do not recognize it within us anymore. It is wearing us down mumineen. What are you going to do when you are next encouraged to do something hateful? Are you going to say Khuda ni laanat like a robot or are you going to stand up and ask them to stop it?! Stand up, say "Stop this!" and walk out of the majlis. I feel like it will take a revolution before this pall is lifted and we can look at ourselves in the mirror again.

Does anyone have any other ideas for a revolution? I know we can stop paying waajebat but we also need to do something visible. Something that will create a groundswell. It is springtime again. Always a good time for a revolution.

objectiveobserver53
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#2

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:15 pm

Wear a green arm band on right arm over saya to protest against hatred in religion in all global gatherings. But that is only step 1 of the revolution.

New
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#3

Unread post by New » Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:45 pm

This hatred is deep deep rooted. 51 did this, 52 did this and now 53rd. Just disassociate with them. Some incidents, diging a grave, public lynching causing deaths, saying laanat and causing riots. 52 said follow your own religion and respect all others.

alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#4

Unread post by alam » Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:44 pm

Slowly but steadily, one can be trained to commit the most atrocious crimes against humanity. Especially so when there is perception of authority and in this case divine messages.

Look at Guantanamo Bay crimes against humanity. Google the Stanford Milgrams prison experiments, and Phil Zimbardo's work. Study the development of Modern day armies and warfare. The holocost. Brutality against slavery. I can go on and on. It all started somewhere - in subtle forms with baby steps toward more and more inhumanity - most of them headed by charismatic and powerful leaders.

I think it's upto everyone of us to speak up against injustice- be it your mother or father, daughter or son - elder or not.

As someone said "The world suffers a lot. Not because of he violence of bad people. But because of the silence of food people." It's Napoleon I think.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#5

Unread post by think » Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:24 pm

people are fighting inside themselves. one part says muffy is right the other says k.q. was right. I would say to those ,look inside yourself more deeply. If you are a muslim then surely you will come to the conclusion that talking bad things about a dead person and fouling your mouth with hateful words and cursing the soul is nowhere near to being human. If your sensible mind agrees , then leave muffy or you will be like him. He will burn in hell for his deeds and take you along with him.
I wonder where is the houston rapper, his brother malik ul ustra now a days. Probably having a vacation.

alivasan
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 9:28 am

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#6

Unread post by alivasan » Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:40 pm

We have to be like X-MEN with power of mutation (just a thought hangover watching weekend X-MEN second world war era)....that was on lighter note...

Mainstream bohra clan is for sure setback to pre islamic era of uncivilized, unfriendly humanity exhibiting jahiliyat and instigating learned class to imitate their uncivilized behaviour just to satisfy ego and boast of power...this is not islam..agitating revolt is way forward..it's just matter of time, it will turn into revolution to bring back peace..time will only tell..needless to say history repeats itself..

Crater Lake
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:46 pm

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#7

Unread post by Crater Lake » Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:54 pm

Yes but what will all of you DOOooo? Who is going to make the green bands and distribute them? Is anyone ever going to have the courage to wear them? And say people do have the courage to wear them, then what? Is the end goal to topple the guy who has created this atmosphere of hate or just let him continue his buffoonery and evil in other forms?

AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#8

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:20 pm

The need to "belong" to a community. To preserve business which is dependent on others from the community, socialize etc etc

There are many who disapprove but are looking the other way as far as revolt goes.

Probably an early demise of MS with no successor announced will put an end to the goonda raj

yfm
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#9

Unread post by yfm » Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:46 pm

Well Said my dear brethren.

If honor was God given then there would be no question about it. If it is Dai given, then it is like weather. Can be brushed aside when the winds blow. If the Dias were infallible, then Seyedna Mohamad Burhanudin showed that is not the case since Seyedna Qutbuddin became the dai in question. If honor came from Allah, then Seyedna Qutbuddin would have had no problems. Because he was the same man, well educated, grew up in the house of Seyeda Taher Saifuddin and in fact came thru him. But in the matter of seconds, every Moffatbhaisaheb and his coons, man and women who did not even the understand the dua of istingar, were able to criticize and demean a man, and the man was seyedna Khozema Qutbuddin who was a mazoon of the dawat, became the Moffat bhaisahebs gave them some credit, may be a few pieces of silver or some sharafat in the heavens above.

All I am trying to say is that we have become a small people, a ridiculous people, like Peter Otoole in the Lawrence of Arabia told the Arabs. Islam would have been a great nation. Yet the fight for power destroyed Islam. The British learned from the divisions in the ranks and made sure they did not decline as a result of it.

Seydna Taher Saifudin created an empire for his progeny and anything that is inclined to Material and worldly success is short lived and so is our dawat.

Mowlana Ali never created a rift in Islam. He followed Abu Baker, Omar, Othman because he was a true spiritual leader and kept Islam united. Imam Hassan relinquished to Mavia because he did not want to create a rift in Islam. Imam Hussein died and sacrficed everything because Islam is not about corruption and wordly gains.

These are not man made of material being as Seyedna Taher Saifuddin himself talks about. These are man made out of 'Noor". If their examples is not what the dai can demonstrate, then we bohras are just on earth a materially successfully community. But in the heavens above, I am sure we will be burning in the hell fire.

Think about the everlasting as it is written in the HOLY Koran in the surat of "sabihisma". This life is not what we should strife for. It is the everlasting. However, the dais are more concerned about this life and their empire.

Gone are the days when Man were Man. Now they are only Sheikhs and Mullas.

Crater Lake
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:46 pm

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#10

Unread post by Crater Lake » Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:51 pm

AgnosticIndian wrote:The need to "belong" to a community. To preserve business which is dependent on others from the community, socialize etc etc

There are many who disapprove but are looking the other way as far as revolt goes.

Probably an early demise of MS with no successor announced will put an end to the goonda raj
In short, you don't want to be a catalyst for change. You would like change to happen spontaneously....

alivasan
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 9:28 am

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#11

Unread post by alivasan » Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:52 pm

celebrations worldwide past one week...this is just demeaning and uncalled for...I have strong intuition that muffy will meet end like his father in law YN. Murdered while doing some big real estate or other deal in sri lanka or africa..game finish..disappearance will not worry Gen Y much as muffy was globe trotter in his 70's and could disappear just out of frenzy.as for now blood sucking monster is going to stay for while..

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 594
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#12

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:26 pm

objectiveobserver53 wrote:Wear a green arm band on right arm over saya to protest against hatred in religion in all global gatherings. But that is only step 1 of the revolution.
This idea has merit. Women should wear green bands on their wrists.

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 594
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#13

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:45 pm

AgnosticIndian wrote:
Crater Lake wrote:
In short, you don't want to be a catalyst for change. You would like change to happen spontaneously....
You have no idea what I am doing. I am stating the facts that I come across during my interactions

Mkenya
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#14

Unread post by Mkenya » Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:38 am

objectiveobserver53: What a brilliant idea wearing a green band on the arm of your saya. Why don't you start and post photos of you entering a mosque for namaaz or whatever. When Abdes question you about the purpose of the band, just tell them that it shows your repugnance at the burning of KQK's effigy. It will indeed be very sad to see photos of your pulverized body thrown over the walls; RED ALL OVER!
An all Kakaji used to say: "Vohra loko ni sardari koi diwas na levi. Tame aager hasho ne paachar ek pachi ek kharta jaase".

I Rizwan
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:33 am

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#15

Unread post by I Rizwan » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:23 am

We did not object when thousands of family were left alone in udaipur, we did not object when graves were dig and naked bodies were thrown on road, we did not object when all dawat properties were taken in possession of one man, we still dont object when some momeen try to stand up against amil and he is thrown out.

how many people object Amil and support rebels in community who do right thing?

NONE.

I Rizwan
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:33 am

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#16

Unread post by I Rizwan » Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:47 am

Kothar knows every thing is boiling up and its just a matter of one man to stand up and the whole rotten empire will fall like a house of cards. but YET time has not come let it ripe a bit more.

alivasan
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 9:28 am

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#17

Unread post by alivasan » Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:06 am

Who is that one men? Why only one men..guess b'coz it will be easy to put blame of revolting on him in event of muffy retaliating back and entire propoganda backfires against opposers...is that so? Who will bell the cat is multi million dollar question? Is it that different groups including reformists,qutbi want to maintain status quo and move on limiting within themselves? Or is it something else which is not revealed out completely to commoners including me. Also one school of thought could be that innocent SKQ was made scapegoat behind hidden agendas of those involved..and had to face terrible defeat.but then if SKQ was perceived as not real dawaat na dushman but targeted pawn than why will his fathers STS family and step brothers SMB family (excluding sons) not befriended him to fight real dawaat na dushman? Was he offered to do so or did he reach out to them with that in mind..possibly would have been win win situation for both of them. Having possibility of fear of mass social boycott eliminated by law..does it trigger taking next step within reformists or anyone wanting to revolt, or are we yet ready? Or last but least all talks are just hogwash and everybody happy in their own den roaring loud...many more questions...no single answer definetely .

kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#18

Unread post by kimanumanu » Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:29 am

Revolting against a well organised opponent is not an easy task. Governments all over the world are spending millions fighting organised crime, the likes of daesh, mafia etc

Kothar is a well oiled organised machinery. They have managed to find just the right balance of oppression and reward that keeps punters on the leash. Dissenters don't last long and are silenced even before their voice reaches beyond their own locality. It is a tough nut to crack and the answer may not be in revolting for the sake of it. What are you revolting against? One has to establish a core set of principles first. Do we still believe in the office of the Dai? Do we believe in there being an Imam? Do we accept the Shia line of religious thinking? You cannot ignore these fundamentals and just revolt. People need to know where they stand. If it was just worldly matters then a lot of people are already revolting without realising. How many have stopped going regularly to masjid or markaz? How many have stopped paying money on every occassion? So it may not be the case that people are not doing anything. Question is how far are they willing to go? Have they reached that breaking point?

alivasan
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 9:28 am

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#19

Unread post by alivasan » Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:46 am

Agree with all your points kimanumanu..to what extent we want to take rebel is key. Second is, rebel or revolt has caveat to it..viz to set principles of new or modifed faith based on bohra doctrines and tenets or possibly other faiths and adoption of set principles which will answer all questions like will there be dai, is it based on immate and so on. Now as you rightly said putting up fight against organized mafia is not easy.. there are possible ways to put a very big dent in organization hitting core backbone seperately and networked elements down the hierarchy seperately..cutting off networked elements from organized structure starting from sheikhs, mullahs to amils. Bottom up, Amil exists becuase we go to him for raza, vajebat etc. If we start cutting each network element in timely manner across the globe they will be left with no option but to keep sinking structure as money will stop flowing in and most of key functions(mktg,PR,Accounts..) will be slowly in state of jeoparadize dysfunctional.
1. Cutdown the schemes
2. Cutdown the networked elements bottoms up
3. Legal recourse for social boycotts. on standby fully prepared .6 months
4. Mass protest on social media..pledge for non cooperation sighting various reasons
5. Implementation of RTI for trusts and or any other affiliated organisation presently run by Dai..with govt buyin.

There is person Shirin Banerjee who has worked for badrimahal finance dept and runs consulting firm. Help from such volunteers can be taken to draw the strategies.

I Rizwan
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:33 am

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#20

Unread post by I Rizwan » Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:44 am

This video has nothing to do with bohraism, but its worth to see, specially when Modi and Mufaddal is using hate politics to secure power for themsleves. its time for bohras to unite under the banner of Islam and not any thing else.


PS- just got news there is some riots going on in gujarat again.
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ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#21

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:46 pm

I Rizwan wrote:PS- just got news there is some riots going on in gujarat again.
Its about the reservation issue of Patidar Patels, they are on a "Jail Bharo" agitation to secure release of their leader Hardik Patel. There is unrest in Saurashtra region and more then 400 people are detained in Surat also. There is call for "Gujarat Bandh" tomorrow.

Fateh
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:25 am

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#22

Unread post by Fateh » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:27 am

Every DB wants revolution but wish that Bhagatsingh from others family.

I Rizwan
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:33 am

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#23

Unread post by I Rizwan » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:41 am

Fateh wrote:Every DB wants revolution but wish that Bhagatsingh from others family.
so true...

its just like every body wants jannah but no body wants to die.

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#24

Unread post by seeker110 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:49 am

Mola Ali used Zulfiqar to fight injustices. We rely on time and prayers.

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Pall over Bohras - call to revolt

#25

Unread post by JC » Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:23 am

Other than waiting and praying, we need to ACT as well, no matter how small or insignificant, we have to do something, small things will help us overcome our so-called fears and we will soon be ready, God Willing to kick some you know what :)