Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

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ajamali
Posts: 402
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Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#1

Unread post by ajamali » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:40 am

In the STS RA urus waaz, Mufaddal Saifuddin mandated female circumcision for all Bohras. He said that the "amal" should be done, in open for men and in secret for women!! This is in direct contradiction to the letters issued by various jamaats in the west banning FGM. Not only is it hypocritical but also it is illegal!!

Here is proof of a religious leader promoting illegal activity by his community! He could be banned from visiting US, UK and Australia if the State Department of Department of Justice got wind of this. It also proves that letters from the jamaats are shams and that the community and it's leader actually promote FGM! Listen to the audio. from about 1:50

https://www.dropbox.com/s/354jket9l3584 ... a.mp3?dl=0
Last edited by ajamali on Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Dua for Momeen
Posts: 131
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#2

Unread post by Dua for Momeen » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:53 am

Brother you forgot to attach video or the link

Dua for Momeen.

ajamali
Posts: 402
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#3

Unread post by ajamali » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:13 am

Dua for Momeen wrote:Brother you forgot to attach video or the link

Dua for Momeen.
Attached.

objectiveobserver53
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#4

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:29 am

I always knew he was a hypocrite but I did not know he was this big of a fool to promote this activity from the takhat!

Crater Lake
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#5

Unread post by Crater Lake » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:45 pm

objectiveobserver53 wrote:I always knew he was a hypocrite but I did not know he was this big of a fool to promote this activity from the takhat!
Why do I get the feeling that the End FGM ladies will be using this audio? :D

Dua for Momeen
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:31 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#6

Unread post by Dua for Momeen » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:09 pm

His and his toli voice modulation and chinghaar (shouting) is amazing and it goes to some very high level even in dua which should be soft spoken and humble.

any ways I have not come across to any hadith from shia and sunni source which says khatna for female is wajib....so its zulm to say "Rasulullah(S) nu farmaan che"
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juzer esmail
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#7

Unread post by juzer esmail » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:26 pm

So will this constitute as material proof in foreign countries courts?

think_for_yourself
Posts: 387
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#8

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:48 pm

What a hypocrite!! Fake dai says one thing and instructs jamaat to say another!! And agree with previous posters...Stupid move.

Ozdundee
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#9

Unread post by Ozdundee » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:00 pm

What date and location was this farman made ?

Is there video equivalent ?

think_for_yourself
Posts: 387
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#10

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:25 pm

Ozdundee wrote:What date and location was this farman made ?

Is there video equivalent ?
April 25th. Saifee Masjid, Mumbai.

AgnosticIndian
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#11

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:59 pm

He says humne koi na si dar nathi but he didn't utter the word Khatna/Khafz and said tamey samjho chhe ne mein su kev chhu. So much for his guts

Maqbool
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#12

Unread post by Maqbool » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:05 pm

If he is not afraid then why various jamat in the west have issued farman not to perform khatna! He advise one thing by farman and other in bayan.

Cowerd.

Maqbool
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#13

Unread post by Maqbool » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:26 pm

Why they have not said in the court that we will do khatna, it's our sharia, we are not afraid of any consequences.

alivasan
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#14

Unread post by alivasan » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:24 pm

OMG..Muffadal is such big hypocrite..he issued fatwa and challenged.

I think..Oz bhai someone should send the audio clip to press and media in india. Masuma ranalvi and other womens activist group should show the audio clip proof to Rajdeep Sardesai and invite followup debate on topic.

zinger
Posts: 1971
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#15

Unread post by zinger » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:41 pm

hi, my 2 cents, i dont think this is solid proof enough. i didnt catch him explicitly mentioning FGM anywhere. did i miss it perhaps?

speaking in "you know what i mean right?" terms is not clear enough what he is referring to. so i dont think people here should jump up and down with such joy at having caught his faus pax. no one here was present so i dont think anyone here can claim to bell the cat

yfm
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#16

Unread post by yfm » Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:09 am

I believe this whole thing about FGM is being taken as a joke by this forum. Especially the women who are taking a survey. I believe it is like some slut asking questions to a man such as " was your wife a virgin when you married her? how do you know she was a virgin? Did she sleep around with men before she married you. Were you able to satisfy her or she was not satisfied because the man she slept with before she married you were better man than you are. Did you last as long as she wanted to. Did she go out and sleep with other man because you could not last as long as she wanted? Was it because she has a clitoris or had she gone through FGM?

In real life men and women want to have the companionship and the support both emotionally and spiritually to have a family, raise their kids and be a respectable family in the community. The matters of sex and FGM and sexual pleasures are there only before they meet a mate and pursue life as matured adults.

It does not matter to my wife whether I have a big penis or can sleep with her every hour. What matters is whether I am a man to be with her in this journey of life, where they can pray to the almighty to guide them and help them live a life of respect in the eyes of our creator.

So please FGM and Women's sexual pleasures are for the immature. The matured man and women long for a marriage that makes them feel fulfilled in all ways, spiritually, financially, professionally and personally.

Our Prophets dictated what Allah wanted us to be and not what our clitoris or its hood dictated.

AgnosticIndian
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#17

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:02 am

alivasan wrote:OMG..Muffadal is such big hypocrite..he issued fatwa and challenged.

I think..Oz bhai someone should send the audio clip to press and media in india. Masuma ranalvi and other womens activist group should show the audio clip proof to Rajdeep Sardesai and invite followup debate on topic.
Listen carefully. He said hamein aa issue par vaat karva mangtaj nathi. Ae Logo hamne sikhavse? Etc etc

Only a law banning it in India will help

Dua for Momeen
Posts: 131
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#18

Unread post by Dua for Momeen » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:14 am

How come hypocrite MS can claim to be representative of Imam?

Dua for Momeen.

alivasan
Posts: 384
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#19

Unread post by alivasan » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:26 am

Ok..India there is no law and not illegal still so he's not feared but his challenge for other parts of globe countries like Australia, US, UK sets out the tone of him being true hypocrite. lawmakers in india will take there own time, but rebelious move has sparkled in minds of young indian bohra women..have a look at pic
https://goo.gl/KyFUeB

kimanumanu
Posts: 607
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#20

Unread post by kimanumanu » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:22 am

zinger wrote:hi, my 2 cents, i dont think this is solid proof enough. i didnt catch him explicitly mentioning FGM anywhere. did i miss it perhaps?

speaking in "you know what i mean right?" terms is not clear enough what he is referring to. so i dont think people here should jump up and down with such joy at having caught his faus pax. no one here was present so i dont think anyone here can claim to bell the cat
Zinger bhai listen more closely. It is immediately obvious he is referring to FGM. He clearly says "mardo nu zaahir thawu joye, bayro nu maghfi". And yes, he is not completely brain dead to explicitly mention it so that, just as you wrote, he can easily claim that he was referring to some other amal and not FGM.

ajamali
Posts: 402
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#21

Unread post by ajamali » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:36 am

zinger wrote:hi, my 2 cents, i dont think this is solid proof enough. i didnt catch him explicitly mentioning FGM anywhere. did i miss it perhaps?

speaking in "you know what i mean right?" terms is not clear enough what he is referring to. so i dont think people here should jump up and down with such joy at having caught his faus pax. no one here was present so i dont think anyone here can claim to bell the cat
This is enough. Just because he did not use the word, it does not mean that it is not clear to every single Bohra who hears it. There is only one "amal" Bohras are being asked not to do by big "mamlakats" of US, UK and Australia, which is currently being done in the open for men and secretly for women. It passes the test of reasonableness and would be accepted by govt agencies.

zinger
Posts: 1971
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#22

Unread post by zinger » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:38 am

kimanumanu wrote:
zinger wrote:hi, my 2 cents, i dont think this is solid proof enough. i didnt catch him explicitly mentioning FGM anywhere. did i miss it perhaps?

speaking in "you know what i mean right?" terms is not clear enough what he is referring to. so i dont think people here should jump up and down with such joy at having caught his faus pax. no one here was present so i dont think anyone here can claim to bell the cat
Zinger bhai listen more closely. It is immediately obvious he is referring to FGM. He clearly says "mardo nu zaahir thawu joye, bayro nu maghfi". And yes, he is not completely brain dead to explicitly mention it so that, just as you wrote, he can easily claim that he was referring to some other amal and not FGM.
accha? let me hear it again

ajamali
Posts: 402
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#23

Unread post by ajamali » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:17 am

Couple of points of note:

He asks why the western governments don't issue laws against smoking, drinking, drugs and adultery....well actually they do! In the US cigarette and alcohol sales are prohibited to those under 21. There are also many laws around smoking and drinking in public. Drugs (except marijuana) are totally illegal. And divorce on grounds of adultery is a shoo in. The guy is totally ill-informed! There is a big difference between a choice an informed adult makes knowing the risks and an act forced upon a helpless seven year old girl child!

Secondly he says he is not afraid of anyone! And then chickens out of using the word khatna or khafd. Did I hear someone say cluck cluck?

AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#24

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:52 am

A video of the speech will help make a case against him. I hope someone has it

think_for_yourself
Posts: 387
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#25

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:07 am

ajamali wrote:Couple of points of note:

He asks why the western governments don't issue laws against smoking, drinking, drugs and adultery....well actually they do! In the US cigarette and alcohol sales are prohibited to those under 21. There are also many laws around smoking and drinking in public. Drugs (except marijuana) are totally illegal. And divorce on grounds of adultery is a shoo in. The guy is totally ill-informed! There is a big difference between a choice an informed adult makes knowing the risks and an act forced upon a helpless seven year old girl child!

Secondly he says he is not afraid of anyone! And then chickens out of using the word khatna or khafd. Did I hear someone say cluck cluck?
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Ozdundee
Posts: 878
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#26

Unread post by Ozdundee » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:07 am

Now that TOI have published let's see how he weaves out of the mess he created for himself. Advisors, publicist and lawyers will work overtime.

Well this time Abdes don't blame reformist or Qutbi , your SMS said it out of the blue. No trap and no agenda.

But I know like many fellow Bohras, they will look for excuses defending him, complex theory, haqq stories and will continue bowing to SMS.

Must make trump look mild in comparison. What a gift like Eid. Bang a coconut landed from the tree did not have to climb. No need for sophisticated listening devices or complicated warrants.
Last edited by Ozdundee on Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

think_for_yourself
Posts: 387
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#27

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:17 am

zinger wrote:
kimanumanu wrote:
Zinger bhai listen more closely. It is immediately obvious he is referring to FGM. He clearly says "mardo nu zaahir thawu joye, bayro nu maghfi". And yes, he is not completely brain dead to explicitly mention it so that, just as you wrote, he can easily claim that he was referring to some other amal and not FGM.
accha? let me hear it again
So what do you think? Any doubt in your mind that he is talking about khatna? 8)

zinger
Posts: 1971
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#28

Unread post by zinger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:30 am

think_for_yourself wrote:
zinger wrote:
accha? let me hear it again
So what do you think? Any doubt in your mind that he is talking about khatna? 8)

maybe not, but fact is that i dont think it can be proven conclusively what he is talking about.

for once, he has been careful about what he says 8)

alivasan
Posts: 384
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#29

Unread post by alivasan » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:49 am

Bohra cleric urges female genital mutilation?Apr 29, 2016, 01.09AM IST TNN[Mohua Das]
MUMBAI: Efforts may be on to end the practice of female genital mutilation that young girls in the Dawoodi Bohra community are made to undergo in India but their spiritual leader may not be convinced yet as he went on to publicly encourage the act ofkhatna(female circumcision) albeit indirectly, in his recent sermon at the Saifee Mosque in Bhendi Bazaar.
A four-minute audio clip fromSyedna MuffadalSaifuddin'sbayaan(speech) on the occasion of the 51st Syedna Taher Saifuddin's death anniversary, has gone viral over a mobile messaging app and generated conversations within the community on how the Syedna's endorsement may urge close followers of the spiritual head to continue with the painful practice.
The clip begins with a plea from the Syedna speaking in a mix of Gujarati and Urdu. "We should keep our things strong, stay firm. Even the big sovereign states, whatever it is they say, if it makes any difference to our things, then we are not prepared to understand!" he says and then adds. "The act has to happen! If it is a man, then it is right, it can be openly done, but if it is a woman then it must be done discreetly, but then the act has to be done. Please understand what I am trying to talk about..."
A Mumbai resident present at the Hussaini Mosque where the sermon was being beamed live on a giant screen confirmed that the clip was what he had heard being broadcast. "The Syedna was reading from a script which is usually the routine on such an occasion but all of a sudden he went off and started talking in a cryptic fashion. It was confusing at first. Then we gradually realized that he was talking about female circumcision when he used words like amal (act), mamlakat (states) and that the act must be carried out discreetly for women and openly for men. It was very disturbing for me and my wife," he toldTOI. A close friend of the Syedna family dismissed such an interpretation of the Syedna's speech whenTOIcalled him. "It was a general comment. Nothing specific. People are interpreting it differently," he said alleging that, "Those close to the new claimant to the Syedna title are trying to target our revered Syedna (Muffadal Saifuddin)."
A 36-year-old Bohra woman who has lived through the horrors ofkhatnaand currently settled in the US expressed her anguish having heard the clip. "Just a month ago many of us in the US received a letter from thejamaat(local community unit) that works under the Syedna's guidelines. It said that we must follow the law of the land and not practicekhatna. I was thrilled, at peace with my faith. What I just heard reflects hypocrisy. I'm disillusioned and worried."

alivasan
Posts: 384
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#30

Unread post by alivasan » Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:05 am

alivasan wrote:Bohra cleric urges female genital mutilation?Apr 29, 2016, 01.09AM IST TNN[Mohua Das]
MUMBAI: Efforts may be on to end the practice of female genital mutilation that young girls in the Dawoodi Bohra community are made to undergo in India but their spiritual leader may not be convinced yet as he went on to publicly encourage the act ofkhatna(female circumcision) albeit indirectly, in his recent sermon at the Saifee Mosque in Bhendi Bazaar.
A four-minute audio clip fromSyedna MuffadalSaifuddin'sbayaan(speech) on the occasion of the 51st Syedna Taher Saifuddin's death anniversary, has gone viral over a mobile messaging app and generated conversations within the community on how the Syedna's endorsement may urge close followers of the spiritual head to continue with the painful practice.
The clip begins with a plea from the Syedna speaking in a mix of Gujarati and Urdu. "We should keep our things strong, stay firm. Even the big sovereign states, whatever it is they say, if it makes any difference to our things, then we are not prepared to understand!" he says and then adds. "The act has to happen! If it is a man, then it is right, it can be openly done, but if it is a woman then it must be done discreetly, but then the act has to be done. Please understand what I am trying to talk about..."
A Mumbai resident present at the Hussaini Mosque where the sermon was being beamed live on a giant screen confirmed that the clip was what he had heard being broadcast. "The Syedna was reading from a script which is usually the routine on such an occasion but all of a sudden he went off and started talking in a cryptic fashion. It was confusing at first. Then we gradually realized that he was talking about female circumcision when he used words like amal (act), mamlakat (states) and that the act must be carried out discreetly for women and openly for men. It was very disturbing for me and my wife," he toldTOI. A close friend of the Syedna family dismissed such an interpretation of the Syedna's speech whenTOIcalled him. "It was a general comment. Nothing specific. People are interpreting it differently," he said alleging that, "Those close to the new claimant to the Syedna title are trying to target our revered Syedna (Muffadal Saifuddin)."
A 36-year-old Bohra woman who has lived through the horrors ofkhatnaand currently settled in the US expressed her anguish having heard the clip. "Just a month ago many of us in the US received a letter from thejamaat(local community unit) that works under the Syedna's guidelines. It said that we must follow the law of the land and not practicekhatna. I was thrilled, at peace with my faith. What I just heard reflects hypocrisy. I'm disillusioned and worried."
Did other media persons covered story, besides TOI.? india today group .?
I had written to editor of india today yesterday ..