Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

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alivasan
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#31

Unread post by alivasan » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:02 am

As received on whatsapp

Ali qadr moula ye aaje akbhar ma chapayla lekh per nazar kari ane sadat kiram shz taikhoom bs ni sadarat ma press conference aje panch waje saify mahal per bolava nu irado kido che..ane em farmayu 'ae logo kai bhi kahe, su ae logo apne sikhavse ke su karvu joye ne su nai'

bohrabhai
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#32

Unread post by bohrabhai » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:17 am

He is busy at ziyafat and kadam in surat. No time for look at paper. And most important thing is he don't have to. He is gaib na Jankar. He knows everything.


bohrabhai
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#34

Unread post by bohrabhai » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:22 am


Ozdundee
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#35

Unread post by Ozdundee » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:48 am

Is it possible the letters in Australia and the west that were written and submitted in court without the approval of SMS. Are the letters and signatory in breach of farman and undertaking void or valid?.

ajamali
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#36

Unread post by ajamali » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:03 am

Ozdundee wrote:Is it possible the letters in Australia and the west that were written and submitted in court without the approval of SMS and he found out too late.

Are the letters and signatory in breach of farman and undertaking void or valid?.
Well the letters are most definitely void! However in the press they are denying that he was referring to khafd at all.... So the coward does not intend to stand behind his words after having declared not afraid of anyone! Seriously! What other Amal is done openly for men and secretly for women and being banned by big sovreigns?!

Ozdundee
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#37

Unread post by Ozdundee » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:51 am

Reuters reports on FGM audio controversy

http://in.mobile.reuters.com/article/id ... E?irpc=932

bohrabhai
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#38

Unread post by bohrabhai » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:10 pm


Truth-Prevails
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#39

Unread post by Truth-Prevails » Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:52 am

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 045812.cms

Clarify on circumcision, Bohras appeal to Syedna

Mohua Das | TNN | Apr 30, 2016, 01.00 AM IST

MUMBAI: Reacting to the audio clip that has been going around in which the Dawoodi Bohra spiritual head Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin made indirect references to the act of khatna (female circumcision) and urged people to continue with the act, groups of Bohra women who have been rallying to end the practice of female circumcision issued a statement on Friday asking the Syedna to publicly clarify his stance.

"Several concerned community members wrote to Sahiyo to tell us that they had attended the wa'az and were shocked by the Syedna's statements... Hundreds of Bohras have interpreted his speech as a reference to khatna and circulated the audio clip widely. If the leadership believes that all of these people misinterpreted the speech, then we urge the Syedna to publicly clarify and make his stance on khatna clear," read the statement by Sahiyo, a group that has made it their mission to empower Dawoodi Bohra and other Asian communities to end female genital mutilation (FGM). 'Speak Out on FGM', another group of Bohra women who have endured FGM and launched a petition to end female female circumcision and so far garnered more than 49,000 signatures issued another statement that said: "This is a clear reference to FGM/khatna, even though the word was not used. He further dismisses and derides all opposition and tells Bohras it is their religious duty to practise it."

Insia Dariwala, co-founder of Sahiyo told TOI: "The community was eagerly awaiting a word on the subject directly from the Syedna, however, the audio clip has further confused the jamaat people because of the contradictory statements made. After the jamaat resolutions were passed in other countries, we thought India wasn't far behind but the Syedna's comments are a setback, it makes our work a little more difficult since the clergy is revered and his words taken as words from God."

Over the last one year, attempts have been made to drum up support against female female circumcision but the Syedna's remarks offer a blow to those rooting for the anti-khatna campaign given the duality of the Syedna's stance.

alivasan
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#40

Unread post by alivasan » Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:54 am

The controversery should not lose sight of media.This involvement is good sign of tackling the denial. But, there is still no reaction from kothar on Statements given to press and media by women activists. There's been no press conference publicly clarifying the stance of muffy so far, so whats up next..muffy will continue to njoy ziafats in surat or will women activists break new grounds ?

think_for_yourself
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#41

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:47 pm

hahaha I see in Mahua Desai's article someone close to MS found a way to blame STF for MS' big screw up!!! Really?

Sorry "close friend of MS" MS must take full credit for this :lol: And yeah sure....he was not talking about khafz...he was just talking in general, whatever that means.... :wink: :wink:

objectiveobserver53
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#42

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:53 pm

I think that the anti-FGM ladies have taken the wrong approach to ending female circumcision among Bohras. Instead of trying to get MS to ban FGM, they should work on getting STF to mandate it on little girls without exception!! That will prompt the MS goons to iimediately issue a fatwa against it...Seriouly ladies. Think out of the box :mrgreen:

ajamali
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#43

Unread post by ajamali » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:01 pm

objectiveobserver53 wrote:I think that the anti-FGM ladies have taken the wrong approach to ending female circumcision among Bohras. Instead of trying to get MS to ban FGM, they should work on getting STF to mandate it on little girls without exception!! That will prompt the MS goons to iimediately issue a fatwa against it...Seriouly ladies. Think out of the box :mrgreen:
What a great idea! They will surely call for laanat on all cutters and baraat with all mothers who choose to get their daughters cut!

Saif53
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#44

Unread post by Saif53 » Sun May 01, 2016 7:44 am

It is interesting to see these two QUTBI BOHRAS jumping to comment on this thread
Truth-Prevails
think_for_yourself

Since Taher F claims to be the head of his Bohra faction. It would be interesting to hear their stance on this topic and their understanding of the rules mentioned in the book Daim al Islam. Maybe they can publish an article in the papers as well.

Since Taher F claims to be the leader of the Bohras. What is his stance?
After all "Fatemi Dawat" and their leaders claim of complete transparency don't they?

kimanumanu
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#45

Unread post by kimanumanu » Sun May 01, 2016 8:39 am

Forget STF stance - why don't you entertain us with your in-depth analysis of your master's stance?

alivasan
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#46

Unread post by alivasan » Sun May 01, 2016 9:09 am

Ring master is still too busy to entertain abde fools in circus of ziyafats. As usual after much of rue within kothari goons, fgm controversery has been silenced and swept under carpet, as goons do not have balls to come out in open to defend their 53rd joker.

Saif53
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#47

Unread post by Saif53 » Sun May 01, 2016 9:31 am

kimanumanu wrote:Forget STF stance - why don't you entertain us with your in-depth analysis of your master's stance?
Why forget his stance?
Unless Taher claims not to be the leader of his Bohra sect, the questions still stands.

What is Taher's, KQ's FateDawat's position on this subject?

Why so scared? Do I remember seeing some "chicken" icons above?

kimanumanu
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#48

Unread post by kimanumanu » Sun May 01, 2016 9:34 am

Let's start with your master's stance first. Did the Jamaats issue those letters without his permission? Are they now going to be punished? Did he make it clear that FGM will and should continue?

Please clarify the above in your usual style with references from daawat text.

humanbeing
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#49

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun May 01, 2016 10:05 am

kimanumanu wrote:Let's start with your master's stance first. Did the Jamaats issue those letters without his permission? Are they now going to be punished? Did he make it clear that FGM will and should continue?

Please clarify the above in your usual style with references from daawat text.
What up with muffy maula and his staff yaa ! his followers get up and say and claim anything .. while muffy maula stays quiet. first the ranting of badri lacewala and then official announcements on FGM going from various jamaat. is there any central governance or no ? what happen to raza and control over local jamaats ?

has every aamil become don of his own area ignoring the supreme don. sab apna dhanda chala rahe hai .. big boss ko ignore karkey !

kimanumanu
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#50

Unread post by kimanumanu » Sun May 01, 2016 10:12 am

That's usual for SMS dawat. Even his nass was informed to others whilst he was blissfully ignorant. Nothing is done by him. Taeed flows to everyone these days as Saif himself confirmed from his dawat texts so no need for SMS to control everything.

alivasan
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#51

Unread post by alivasan » Sun May 01, 2016 10:14 am

53rd joker and his elder Q Joker has no idea what his goons are upto...they are out of their control. No punishment will ever take them to right path. Leadership of 53rd joker backed by Q Joker will have to change in order to get the goons come to right path...this is just disgusting..

Duo joker's will pretend they dont know what is happening behind their nose, goons pull the strings without their knowledge and poor duo joker get's blammed time and again.. how come duo don't know? After all, are'nt they supposed to be gaib na jankar ..

kimanumanu
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#52

Unread post by kimanumanu » Sun May 01, 2016 10:18 am

The brothers have carved up areas for themselves .... MA takes US/Canada (already preparing his kids for future stint as Houston Amil), QJ takes Europe (preparing grandson for future stint as London Amil by the looks of it) and SMS keeps India, Middle East and Africa (most likely with Jaffar as 54th).

alivasan
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#53

Unread post by alivasan » Sun May 01, 2016 10:36 am

kimanumanu wrote:The brothers have carved up areas for themselves .... MA takes US/Canada (already preparing his kids for future stint as Houston Amil), QJ takes Europe (preparing grandson for future stint as London Amil by the looks of it) and SMS keeps India, Middle East and Africa (most likely with Jaffar as 54th).
This Tripatriate agreement will not hold for more time as trio has forgotten 'ALLAH' and 'RASUL'.

Truth-Prevails
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#54

Unread post by Truth-Prevails » Wed May 04, 2016 1:55 pm

http://www.thequint.com/women/2016/05/0 ... ort-of-fgm

Can Brutality be God’s Will? Bohra Cleric Syedna Favours FGM
Maanvi

Female Genital Mutilation (FGM), also known as female circumcision or “khatna” is a practice in which a part of the clitoris of young girls, often aged between 6 to 8 years old, is cut off in a crude, and unhygienic manner – and that too, without anesthesia.
In India, FGM is practiced among the Bohra Muslim community, who have a population of over 1 million in India. A women’s collective within the community, ‘Speak Out on FGM’ wrote two letters to the Syedna in Mumbai, the religious head of Dawoodi Bohra Muslims in India, asking him to put an end to FGM within the community. The Syedna hadn’t commented on FGM, or the criticism against the practice.
Until now.

On 25 April 2016, the Syedna in Mumbai, Muffadlal Maula openly exhorted his followers to follow FGM. In his speech, he said:
The procedure, the procedure, the procedure has to happen! If it is a man, then it is right, it is openly, and if it is a woman then discreetly but it must be done. You understand what I am trying to talk about, you understand properly about. In the man it is open, in women it is secret, but the procedure must be done! Whoever it is, whoever says it.
Syedna Muffadlal Maula, Cleric, Dawoodi Bohras

A bride in a traditional attire after participating in a mass wedding ceremony of the Dawoodi Bohra community. (Photo: Reuters)
Even though the Syedna doesn’t explicitly refer to FGM, the ‘procedure’ in the speech has been confirmed by many as relating to khatna as there is no other practice that is done openly to men and in secret for women. He further dismisses the criticism against FGM as ‘harmful’ and tells his followers that it is their religious duty to practice FGM.
The Prophet has said it. Who are these people to tell us! That you do this. That this is harmful! Never mind what they say! If necessary then tell them whatever is needed, that we are not scared of anyone!

The women in the Dawoodi Bohra community, who have been making concerted efforts to raise awareness are disappointed at the Syedna’s comments. It is for the first time that women in this community have openly come out to speak about this secretive practice and have bared in public the ill effects this practice has had on them. It is the duty of the religious leadership to hear the voices of its own followers and women and address their pleas. A centuries old practice of physically harming little girls genitalia has no place in the 21st century.

The Dawoodi Bohra community in India is highly educated, yet it is the only Muslim community to practice female genital mutilation in India. As has been argued by the campaigners against FGM, it is not a religious practice, but is a cultural practice - a practice wherein people believe a women’s sexuality is to be brought under control.

The practice, mainly done on young girls, is extremely painful and can lead to genital sores, excessive bleeding, tetanus and psychological trauma like post-traumatic stress disorder. When Masooma and a number of women from the Bohra community formed a collective to end FGM, they feared a backlash from within community.

Furthermore, there has been a negative WhatsApp campaign against ‘Speak Out on FGM’ where the members of the collective have been called ‘mischief mongers’ and ‘crusaders for a wrong cause.’ The pro-FGM argument is that female circumcision is a scientific and highly beneficial procedure. According to the WhatsApp message, there are standard guidelines for a safe procedure called ‘clitoral unhooding’ which is what “khafz” means.

However, Zehra Patwa, a member of ‘Speak Out on FGM’ has issued a rebuttal of this argument where she says, According to the World Heath Organization, the United Nations, medical community and numerous governments around the world, Female Genital Mutilation has no scientific basis or benefit except as an elective surgical procedure for an adult woman who experiences sexual dysfunction due to a larger than normal amount of prepuce tissue on the clitoris that prevents her from attaining orgasm. Khatna or khafd falls under Type I FGM, which is considered an abuse of human rights.

Kaka Akela
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#55

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Wed May 04, 2016 3:06 pm

Bro Truth Prevails : you said, [color=#FF0000]According to the WhatsApp message, there are standard guidelines for a safe procedure called ‘clitoral unhooding’ which is what “khafz” means.[/color]

Even if I agree to the scientific benefits of female khatna as propagated by the Dai and also to any religious reasons for it. where I disagree is how it is implemented. How many old Masi(s) with a sharp razor in any and all towns and villages know what is a Clitoral Hood is ?? Has anybody trained them or shown a picture as to what to remove, in absence of this guideline or training they remove the whole clitoris. That's what the main problem is that kothar talks a storm about female khatna but provide no picture of the hood to be removed or any kind of training or certification to have it done properly or safely. Aftermath of this ignorance is that many bohra women suffer all their life with the loss of their clitoris as well the enormous pain associated with old masi's ignorance and crude methods.

alivasan
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#56

Unread post by alivasan » Thu May 05, 2016 8:29 am

Surprisingly, why muffy has not ventured into this business of providing training and certifications to masi's or dia's or nurses, setting up clinics (saifee or burhani or muffadali or (in near future) jaffari) khatna centers etc...is this business of running hygenic male/female khatna centers not lucrative ?

Muffy has hands in all sorts of businesses from roti to sifa ni phoonks at saifee hospital..ever wonder why not venture into khatna centers or clinics?

I think those would definately be there after 30 years when jaffer will come onboard as 54th as they will realize that it's lucrative business by then and hygenic khatna will be much in demand.

SBM
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#57

Unread post by SBM » Thu May 05, 2016 9:56 am

^
alivasan
Sarcasm aside but it is very good point, why has not Kothari Goon provide that services and they have facilities like Saify Hospital.
You may have just given him that idea, Now all Abdes and Amtes have to take their kids for Khatna ( and secretly FGM) Kothar approved doctors or clinics just like they do for Caterers

alivasan
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#58

Unread post by alivasan » Thu May 05, 2016 11:25 am

FMB To FGM Transition
-----------------------------

Given the limited infrastructure at disposal, kothari goons might would want to convert existing FMB centers to FGM centers and MKC. To save the cost, FMB (Faltu Mardo Bairo) bai's will become FGM bai's and studs.

Kothar will free professor of sydneham college as now getting free tips from me on 'FGM' strategy.

AgnosticIndian
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#59

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Sat May 07, 2016 8:38 am

The fatwa given during the Zikra majlis by Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin in favor of female genital cutting dug up the wound that exists in my heart which makes me write this post.

Looking at parts from the audio clip leaked from the majlis, at one point, Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin says what translates to English as:

“It must be done. If it is a man, it can be done openly and if it is a woman it must be discreet. But the act must be done. Do you understand what I am saying? Let people say what they want.”

The Syedna made no direct mention of the word “khatna” or “khafz”, but asks that the act be done discreetly for girls so that the community does not get tangled in any legal trouble. He cryptically says, “Do you understand what I am saying?” It was a clear reference to female genital mutilation (FGM). It is obvious that this was in response to the raging debate on FGM that has occurred in public after three Bohras were convicted in Australia for practicing khatna on two minor girls. No one from the clergy has come forward to participate in this debate, and the Syedna in his fatwa said, “We are not willing to talk to anyone on this issue”.

The reason this issue dug up a wound in my heart is that a couple of years ago my daughter was made to undergo this barbaric ritual, against my wishes, under pressure from family elders and the ladies in particular.

A year before my daughter turned seven, my wife told me that when our daughter turns seven we have to do her khatna. Unlike most men in the community, I was aware of what khatna or FGM is and I told her that I will not allow this. I told her this practice was started centuries ago by Bohras who wanted to curb the sexual desire of their women, as they frequently travelled for business.

I told her that there is no scientific/medical basis for khatna or FGM. There is no mention of it in the Quran and that other Muslim sects do not practice it. I even told her that it is illegal in the western world and has been declared a violation of human rights by the United Nations.

What I also did was initiate a discussion within my close Bohra friends group. I raised the issue as to why a girl who doesn’t understand what is going on or what’s being done to her has to go through this, especially when the ones taking her for the cut are people she trusts.

One reply I received from a female friend in the group is etched in my memory. She said, “Would you want your daughter to have multiple sex partners and have extra marital affairs?”

I was taken aback by the reply, particularly as this friend is a well-educated person otherwise! It left me in despair on realizing the extent of falsehoods that have been propagated within the community, with people being brainwashed into believing something as barbaric as khatna, which has no scientific basis and is a violation of human rights. Forcibly doing something that is thought to curb sexual desire is in itself a violation of human rights. If educated young women of the community think in this manner, what to say of the elders who still dominate decision making in the majority of Bohra households?

My wife agreed with me and was reluctant to put our daughter through the horror. She told my mom and her mom that I was against the decision. She was told by both that there would be no argument and that this centuries-old practice has to continue just like how they went through it.

I being the only son, live with my parents. My wife was torn between me on one side and my mother and her mother on the other. Talking to my parents did not help and ended with the usual invocation that it’s a “religious obligation”, Moula, tears, emotions etc.

My wife and I left the matter there hoping that when the time came, we could fake it. But, when my daughter turned seven, my mom said she would accompany us to take our daughter to get her khatna. She wouldn’t let us go alone. She made sure the appointment with a Bohra gynecologist (sigh!) was made.

My daughter was put under the blade. The fault is mine. Maybe I wasn’t strong enough or forceful enough then to prevent that atrocity on my daughter. But, now that there is a perfidious attitude where on one hand there is this fatwa in favor of the practice, while on the other hand, jamaats in Western countries have issued letters telling citizens to refrain from the practice, I thought it is time we men from the community spoke out against it. It is time for Bohra men to be informed about this evil practice and come out against it to save their daughters.

As it is well-known that the consequences of openly raising your voice against the Syedna has dire consequences, it is going to be difficult to get rid of this practice by mobilizing support from within the community. Some people may be against it, but they don’t say it openly.

In my opinion, building support in the larger civil society and legal recourse is the best way to end the practice. Maybe a public interest litigation (PIL) in India will get positive result. There is already a raging debate in India over triple talaq after a lady filed a PIL against it, and it has got larger public attention and support.

I commend the members of Sahiyo who are fighting against FGM. This post is my small contribution in support of their effort for a common good.

https://sahiyo.com/2016/05/05/bohra-men ... daughters/

SBM
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Re: Mufaddal Saifuddin mandates FGM! Audio proof

#60

Unread post by SBM » Sat May 07, 2016 10:06 am

^
Unfortunately that person Yusuf is still a coward person, After admitting of being NOT brave. he still wants to hide his identity and still wants to belong to a barbaric CULT.
He deserves to live with GUILT for rest of his life.