Bohra interpretation of 'Mera'j'

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Bohra interpretation of 'Mera'j'

#1

Unread post by JC » Tue May 17, 2016 9:43 am

Lately I have been hearing this portion of 'Sabaq' from various Abdes/Amtes ........ seems Master has allowed this to 'leak' for whatever reasons .......

When they talk of Prophet's Mera'g they are ending it in this vague and ambiguous way ...........

.............. and Gabriel took Prophet Mohammad to Seventh Sky and both of them were walking towards Allah's chambers and at one point Gabriel stops and says to Prophet, we have reached my boundary, from here you go alone to meet Allah. Prophet then proceeds alone towards the chambers and arrives at chambers. There he sees a huge curtain behind which Allah is sitting, and suddenly a hand comes out of curtain and Prophet is surprised to see that the hand has Ali's ring in one of his fingers ......... then 'Allah' talks to Prophet in Ali's voice ...........

They stop here and ask the audience to 'Aagar Tamay Sumjhee Jaoo' .............!!

Would any Ortho please care to explain?? What does this imply? Mean??

anajmi
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Bohra interpretation of 'Mera'g'

#2

Unread post by anajmi » Tue May 17, 2016 1:01 pm

This is nothing new. This has been a cornerstone of the bohra mushrikiyat for a long time. Apparently the bohra quran does not have the surah ikhlas in it or that they are amongst the most ignorant about Allah.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Bohra interpretation of 'Mera'g'

#3

Unread post by think » Tue May 17, 2016 3:52 pm

Then how can they be muslims. Mr. Anajmi, have you taken misaak or given a misaak to any of your imams or dai?
Misaak is a mandatory requirement of being a bohra but does that event transform one to a muslim, That is the question. and if misaak converts one from being a muslim to now being a human being obedient slave of dai , then is this islam and are bohris on the right path.

dawedaar
Posts: 844
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:40 pm

Re: Bohra interpretation of 'Mera'g'

#4

Unread post by dawedaar » Wed May 18, 2016 12:27 am

So, does it imply that Imam Ali (AS) is Allah?
JC wrote: They stop here and ask the audience to 'Aagar Tamay Sumjhee Jaoo' .............!!

Would any Ortho please care to explain?? What does this imply? Mean??

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Bohra interpretation of 'Mera'g'

#5

Unread post by humanbeing » Wed May 18, 2016 1:22 am

yeah, I have heard another version of Meraaj .. it goes something like this..

prophet was travelling with jibreel towards seven heaven and on one of the levels he saw a figure while prophet was being ascended higher up he could not figure out who he was until he glimpsed his hand and saw a ring that of ALI ...

everyone in the crowd was like .. "wohaa" what a mysterious twist .. and as usual .. crowd went .. "yaa ali .. yaa ali .. yaa hussein .. yaa hussein"

ohh .. how entertaining. I give them points for creativity, but story telling techniques are still weak.

Lets wait for few more years and ... possibly these guys would make that hand ;; is that of shafeek bawa muffy maula .. and abdes will lap up this bullcrap with pinch of salt in thier kharaas !

asad
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Bohra interpretation of 'Mera'g'

#6

Unread post by asad » Wed May 18, 2016 1:27 am

According to Bohras already Aqa Hussain did dua for Duat and specifically SMS and MS so no one should be alarmed on these small twists.

Dua for Momeen
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:31 am

Re: Bohra interpretation of 'Mera'g'

#7

Unread post by Dua for Momeen » Wed May 18, 2016 8:51 am

anajmi wrote:This is nothing new. This has been a cornerstone of the bohra mushrikiyat for a long time. Apparently the bohra quran does not have the surah ikhlas in it or that they are amongst the most ignorant about Allah.
tujhe problem nahi hona chahhiye, wahabi to waise bhi maante hain ki Allah ke haath aur paw hain...Nauzobillah.

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Bohra interpretation of 'Mera'j'

#8

Unread post by JC » Wed May 18, 2016 10:00 am

Why don't bohras accept the fact that they believe dai to be God .... or lets say an Avatar of God.

Hussain and Ali are just a means .......... the end is to instigate the idea that DAI is indeed GOD ...........

Forget messaq and all that crap .......

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Bohra interpretation of 'Mera'j'

#9

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun May 29, 2016 6:40 pm

Imam Ali & journey of meraj

Grand shia alim sheokh al-mufeed recoreded in Al-Ikhtisas, p.213:

Narrated Ahmad b. Abdullah, from Abdullah b. Muhammad al-‘Absi saying: I was told by Hammaad b. Salamah, from al-‘Amash, from Ziyad b. Wahab, from Abdullah b. Mas’oud saying: I came to Fatimah peace be upon her and said: Where is your husband? She replied: Gibreel ascended with him [Ali] to heaven. I said: What for? She replied: A dispute errupted among some angels over something and have requested a human referee. So Allah has revealed to them: Choose, and they chose Ali b. Abi Talib [as].

https://islamistruth.wordpress.com/2011 ... -of-meraj/

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Bohra interpretation of 'Mera'j'

#10

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun May 29, 2016 6:58 pm

Even mainstream Shias believe that Mola Ali (a.s.) was present on Arsh when Prophet (s.a.w.) went for Meraj :-

Ibn babawaiyah qummi narrates from jafar: prophet(saw) went into the skies 120 times , everytime allah made the wahi of wilayat of ali towards prophet(saw), so many times the wahi regarding wilayat of ali was done that no other farz was given such priority.( muqadma tafseer al burhan , pg 22).

When prophet(saw) went into the skies in the night of meraj , he saw ali had already reached there before him, he greeted him , while he had left him on earth.(tafseer al burhan vol 2, pg 404 from barsi)

In One more rivayat from saduq, in al amali.

When (on the night of meraj) I was taken in to the skies, I got closer to my lord, such that there was just a gap of two pillars or less than that, between us. Allah said: oy muhammed, whom you love the most among the creatures, I replied ali. Allah said, see over there muhammed! I saw on my left side there was ali(a.s) present.(tafseer al burhan vol 2, pg 404 from barsi)

In the book Kashf al‑Ghummah, it has been narrated from Abdullah ibn Umar that: "I heard someone ask the Prophet of Allah , `With what voice did Allah, the Glorified and High, speak to you in on the night of the Me'raj?"

The Prophet replied, "My Lord spoke to me with the voice of 'Ali ibn Abi Talib and said, `O' Ahmad! I am an Entity that is not like anything else. I can not be compared to anything else and I know all the secrets of your heart. With the exception of 'Ali ibn Abi Talib , you have no other close friend. Thus, I speak to you with the voice of 'Ali ibn Abi Talib so that your heart will be at ease.""

From Kashf al-Ghummah, Vol. 1, p. 106, Fee mahabbati al-rasooli (s) iyyahu wa tahreedahu alaa mahabbatihi wa muwaalaatihi wa nahyuhu an baghdihi.

Also in the Hadith Book Bihar al Anwar vol.9 page 76 it is narrated from Imam Sadiq a.s. that prophet said:

when reached where there was nothing between me and Allah and there was no angel or prophet. I did not asked anything unless I received better of it. at that time this came to my mind:

You are only a warner, and for every Ummah is a guide. http://tanzil.net/#13:7
so I asked Allah: O my trainer you placed me Warner. but who is Guide of my Ummah? Allah replied O Muhammad! he is Ali Ibn Abi Talib. he is guide and leader of who found my way and who are pious...

Also these hadiths are narrated in Bihar al Anwar

“It is related that Muhammad declared that on the night of Ascension, the Most High commanded me to inquire of the past prophets for what reason they were exalted to that rank, and they all testified, “We were raised up on account of your Prophetical Office, and the Imamate of Ali Ibn Abu Talib, and the Imams of your posterity”. A divine voice then commanded, ‘look on the right side of the empyrean’. I looked and saw the similitude of Ali, and Hasan, and Husain, and Ali ibn al-Husain, and Muhammad Bakir, and Jafar as-Sadiq, and Musa Kazim, and Ali ibn Musa-ar-Reza, and Muha­mmad Taki, and Ali Naqi, and Hasan Askhari, and Mahdi ­all performing prayers in a sea of light. ‘These’, said the Most High, “are my proofs, Vicegerents, and friends, and the last of them will take vengeance on my enemies.”
and

‘The Prophet declared that when he performed the Ascension, the angels inquired very particularly about Ali. ‘When I arrived,’ he continued, ‘at the fourth heaven, I saw the angel of death, who said that it was his office to take the soul of every creature by God’s command; but in the case of you and Ali, I will have to take your consent.’ When I came under the empyrean, I saw Ali ibn Abu Talib standing there, and said to him, ‘O Ali have you got there before me?’ ‘Whom are you add­ressing’, asked Gabriel. ‘My brother’, I replied. ‘This is not Ali,’ said he, ‘but an angel of the Merciful God, whom he created in the likeness of Ali and when those of us pri­vileged to approach near the Deity wish to behold Ali, we visit this angel.”

and

And so Jesus and Moses and Abraham all inquired about Ali and congratulated Muhammad on having left so good a Caliph in his place. The Apostle further related, “On the night of MERAJ, on every one of the curtains of light and on every one of the pillars of the empyrean to which I came, I saw written; there is no God but Allah, Muhammad is the Apostle of God, and Ali ibn Abu Talib is the commander of the Faithful.”

humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Bohra interpretation of 'Mera'j'

#11

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon May 30, 2016 1:23 am

I like the mystical stories weaved over centuries ... it gets interesting and amusing. possible after 100 to 1000 years .. people will believe in Harry Potter too ....