DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#1

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:21 am

The following article was written by me recently for a friends group:

Religion in itself is no longer reqd. It has outlived its usefulness for mankind. Time was when man was savage and might was right. Religions brought in moral codes and taught between right and wrong with the backing of divine laws. But from the 18th century onwards, as nations and societies developed and civilisation progressed, constitutions were instituted which became sacrosanct in law. They cover all aspects of human behaviour and governance. They have clear guidelines on penalties and bring about equality in justice, establish liberties, authority and duties. Religion today has to take a backseat and often clashes with the law. It has in fact become an anachronism, backward looking and reduced to a mere framework of oppressive rules and regulations which is being exploited by clergy to keep the ignorant masses under subjugation and enrich themselves. Religion has lost its spirituality and become a business. All religions have degenerated into perverted forms of human slavery. Once you realise with your by now finely tuned sense of morality and ethics that the laws of today's nations are sufficient, religion in itself becomes redundant. You don’t need its framework anymore to lead a moral life or be a good human being. You don’t need to fall prey to the dastardly clergy to find your own spiritual peace and happiness in life.
Most intelligent (which is not to be equated with education) and deeply introspective people eventually realise that religion today has become a big con game. Far from enlightening us, religions today wish to keep us backward, isolated, ignorant and blindly obedient. It has become an opiate for the dumb masses and a tool in the hands of unreligious crooks. The most divisive factor in human civilisation is religion, the cause of wars, strife and suffering. More cruelties and casualties have been inflicted and more passions ignited in its name than wars, pestilence and patriotism combined. It instills hatred against other beliefs and faiths, thus becoming deniers of fundamental rights to others. Blind adherence to religion encourages further introduction of strange and illogical practices which are an affront to logic and an insult to human intelligence, besides having no connection to the Gods they profess to serve. Most intelligent people become religious rebels. Surprisingly all the prophets who came were rebels who came to overthrow oppressive "religions" of their time. Mohammed, Buddha, Jesus, Ram, Moses, Guru Nanak and Zarthustra, all were rebels and free thinkers. If they were alive today they would denounce the way their messages have been perverted, distorted and misused. In fact they would encourage their followers to rebel and throw out the entire so called religious frameworks as they exist today, along with all those rascals who profess to being its preachers and guardians of your faith.




bohra_manus
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#2

Unread post by bohra_manus » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:05 pm

Well Said Bro. Zulfikar



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#3

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:32 pm

More cruelties and casualties have been inflicted and more passions ignited in its name than wars, pestilence and patriotism combined.
In the last 100 hundred years, can you please point out one full fledged war that was started in the name of religion?

Most modern wars, including the Napoleonic Campaign, the American Revolution, the French Revolution, the American Civil War, World War I, the Russia Revolution, World War II, and the conflicts in Korea and Vietnam, were not religious in nature or cause. (copied from google). The gulf wars, the bombing of Iraq and Afghanistan, the current massacre going on in Syria, none of them are religious in nature. They are all political. Even the massacre of muslims in India had nothing to do with religion. It was simply a path to a party's political rise. The only way man can get rid of religion is if religion was man made. If religion was man made, than anything else that is man made will have a similar fate. If religion however, is a creation of the Almighty, then man isn't going to get rid of it. Better understand it and follow it the way in which the Alimighty wanted you to follow it. Else you will keep suffering under the hands of those who know how to take advantage of the gullible.



tipu sultan
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:24 pm

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#4

Unread post by tipu sultan » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:45 pm

religion is moral code and is a couner balance to both civilian political based and scientific laws.

sometimes ideological laws flow into all the 3 laws.

example cloning, homosexuality, feminism. .. ...religion has part to play in developing rules on the's emerging issues...as does civil and scientific laws

religion is needed but not as it was applied centuries ago as the world was different. ..now please note we are talking about religion and not merit of the scriptures or its application

you need moral conscience based laws for social balance. I will not explain too much, suggest you spend a few days 1 on 1 so I bore you but I think you get my point...

what has manifested currently is religion has not evolved while the world has rapidly changed ....hence you are right ...religion has a high likely hood of becoming less relevant



seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#5

Unread post by seeker110 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:57 pm

War is politicians game, Religion's delight. Assassins trade.



SBM
Posts: 6223
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#6

Unread post by SBM » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:14 pm

In the last 100 hundred years, can you please point out one full fledged war that was started in the name of religion?
War of attrition between Protestants and Catholics in the name of religion.
Almost a full fledged war between Shia Iran and Sunni Iraq ( 10 year with millions in casualty)
Civil War between Buddhist and Muslims in Mynamar
Again War does not have to bee between two countries in the name of religion because in West no country is based on religion but there is a clear dislike for Muslims and to certain extent Jews.



I Rizwan
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:33 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#7

Unread post by I Rizwan » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:35 pm

In nutshell religion specially ISLAM is definitely required for healthy society but private clubs like dawoodi bohra-Aliya bohra-Agha khani-Ahmadi, people who divided them self to make their own cult is not required.

Quran-Hadith-Sunnah is ever living.



SBM
Posts: 6223
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#8

Unread post by SBM » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:44 am

Quran-Hadith-Sunnah is ever living.
It is the Hadith which is suspect for many divides in Muslim Ummah. Islam was completed by Prophet Mohammed PBUH before his death and divide came after.
Unfortunately Ummah stopped following the theological part of Islam completed by Prophet and became the follower of Political part after his death and thus causing the fissure
Before anyone jumps about the authentic Hadith, every Hadith is being challenged even the authentic ones. If the succession of the Prophet is suspect how can you not suspect any Hadiath since they are referred to Sahabas.
Shias discount Hadiaths by Sunnis, Sunnis discount Hadiath by Shias and our Aamil discount everything except what Muffadal says.



think
Posts: 1815
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#9

Unread post by think » Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:36 am

jannat kisi ke baap ke jagir nahi hai
yeh mumin ke naikion ka silla hai.



think
Posts: 1815
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#10

Unread post by think » Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:39 am

quote quran last sentences of surah bakar.
befoer quraan or tuarat or injeel allah created the criterion between right and wrong .



Truthseeker
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:01 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#11

Unread post by Truthseeker » Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:07 am

Al Zulfiqar wrote:The following article was written by me recently for a friends group:

Religion in itself........of your faith.


Well and rightly said brother Zulfiqar. Your eloquence is a delight to the eyes.



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#12

Unread post by anajmi » Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:48 am

Iraqi president Saddam Hussein claimed as the reason for his attack on Iran a territorial dispute over the Shatt al Arab, a waterway that empties into the Persian Gulf and forms the boundary between Iran and Iraq.
From wikipedia.

This war had nothing to do with religion. You think a person like Saddam Hussain would fight for the sake of religion? He attacked Kuwait as well. They are the same "religion" right? The biggest religion over there is oil.



Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#13

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:45 pm

Let us all resolve to introspect atleast once a month as to how far we have reached in disentagling ourselves from the clutches of this many-armed octopus which has cleverly bound us with cunning stratagems like weekly majlises, monthly sitaabi thaals, dareeses, urus majlises and jamans, dabba thaali, moharram preparations and then moharram "celebrations", compulsory brainless video watching sessions of muffy's stupid trips, brainwashing of kids at madrasa and of adults at sabaks; in short keeing bohras so occupied and so suffocating their mind space that they have no time to think or do anything constructive with their lives or develop meaningful relationships with others outside the community.
Posting messages, pics and videos about the haramkor kothari mafia exposing their misdeeds and scandals is good as it leads to awareness and provokes thought and debate within the community, but it is of no use if it does not lead to affirmative and positive actions to better our lives and prompt us to quietly but gradually take concrete steps to disengage from this hydra-headed monster which has completely taken over your lives. One by one, cut off those tentacles, cut off those heads, reduce your attendance, make conscious efforts to make friends outside the bohra community to diversify your social circle, if you are in business, reduce your dependence on bohra customers and suppliers, learn new hobbies and languages, widen your reading, join a library, study the quran even if it’s a translation, so that you can see through the lies and deceptions of the kothar, show defiance and resist frequent demands for money from your local jamaat, look them in the eye and speak with a firm tone, do not give in and if bullied and threatened, reply by raising your voice to a level where others around you can also hear. The amils are bullies and all bullies are cowards. They will immediately back down!
Unless you take these steps, this grouping or posting these frwds will lead nowhere and will remain just that; an exercise in futility and a pastime to amuse ourselves. A hobby which brings pleasure, a vicarious pleasure obtained from the misery of others and revelling in sharing our own pain, almost like sado-masochism.
It took me nearly 3 decades of careful planning to completely detach myself from the bohra jamaat. It required cunning, an iron resolve and putting in place many elements where I absolutely do not miss the jamaat socialising or the business loss which I compensated more than enough with diversification in my customer and supplier base. Use taqqiya if necessary to hide your status for as long as possible until such time that you can come out in the open. Be smart in handling your own families, do not antagonise them by being brash or in-your-face, but by adopting low-profile intelligence tactics and soft indoctrination methods to get them slowly but surely on your side. Make no mistake, sacrifices will be involved, be mentally prepared for the same, but remain focused on your own priorities. Some close relatives and friends will be lost, many will turn against you, unleash their hatred and be vindictive, but if you have taken advance steps their moves will be nullified. Play this like a game of chess, strategise, plan ahead, calculate your moves, go for the kill.
This message has been emphasised repeatedly, but if it does not result in positive action, it will go the same way as the reformists who have been marginalised, isolated, reviled and hated and over the years their numbers cleverly dwindled by bribes, inducements, threats and legal actions. Our need is to spread our numbers all over the globe, hollow out the giant kothari tree from within like termites, eat away slowly but surely at its roots and leaves and branches and eventually the mighty trunk will crumble and fall. Non-cooperation and non-violence used by Gandhi got India its freedom from the mighty British Empire. The same tactic was emulated by Mandela and you saw the results. No one, but no one can enslave the human spirit, except your own lack of resolve.





seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#14

Unread post by seeker110 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:15 pm

Celebrate Mohharrum via U tube. They have Majlis and Noha from all corners of the world. It saves so much time and hassles.



qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1001
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#15

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:50 am

Religion is regarded
by the common people as true,
by the wise as false,
and by rulers as useful



humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#16

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:33 am

Bullseye ! Bro AZ

Exactly, these strategies are well worded and possible given the limitation various bohra members face in the community. Infact, one or many of these tactics are used by sensible bohras to stay clear of kothari loot and subjugation. Those bohras who hold their hard-earned money and self respect in better esteem do not bow down in greed or fear to these kothari thugs.



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#17

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:58 pm

by the wise as false,
So according to you, the people who died for the religion of Islam (like Hussain and Ali) were fools?



AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#18

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:55 am

qutub_mamajiwala wrote:Religion is regarded
by the common people as true,
by the wise as false,
and by rulers as useful
Satya vachan!



qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1001
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#19

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:49 am

yes they did die for islam, but not for some false ummayad islam.
actually they fought against it.
so yes, wise regard ur ideology as false.
and the ruler are using for their own selfish means
and the common foolish people beleive it to be true.



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#20

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:48 am

So they were wise even though they regarded religion (Islam.. not umayyad Islam or fatimi Islam) as true and not false?

But you said earlier that the wise consider religion as false. So the bttom line is that some may be wise and some may be fools but you are definitely full of shit right?



qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1001
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#21

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:28 am

hey bro
why are u so worried about me?
whoever i am?
according to u, and many of ur likes i am already going to hell,
coz i wished my colleague merry christmas on 25 dec and that amounts to shirk--an upardonable sin.



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#22

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:40 pm

25 Dec should be the least of your concerns. You are the supporter of the enemies of Islam and a hypocrite who says that religious people are unwise and then realised he put his foot in his mouth by calling his own idol's as unwise.



qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1001
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#23

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:13 am

i stand by it bro

so called religious people insisting on ritualistic things instead of spiritualism
and seeing quran with burqa on with verbatim meaning.
relying on 1400 yrs old tradition and justifying it today
indeed they are unwise.

example--which your right hand possess--there is no slavery today--but the verse has got stuck still.
could it mean BF GF or live in relation ship

regarding my idols--they were practical in nature doing it what was best in their times



AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#24

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:56 pm

+1
qutub_mamajiwala wrote:i stand by it bro

so called religious people insisting on ritualistic things instead of spiritualism
and seeing quran with burqa on with verbatim meaning.
relying on 1400 yrs old tradition and justifying it today
indeed they are unwise.

example--which your right hand possess--there is no slavery today--but the verse has got stuck still.
could it mean BF GF or live in relation ship

regarding my idols--they were practical in nature doing it what was best in their times



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#25

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:18 pm

The simple question is - Do you believe in the Quran to be a revelation from God? If yes, then you shouldn't be asking these questions because God revealed the Quran as a guidance for mankind till the day of judgment. If the Quran had an expiry date of 1400 years, then we would've seen Qayamat (we may still, who knows). So, the Quran, if considered to be the word of God, has to be an absolute truth today as it was when it was revealed.

The reason AgnosticIndian likes your posts so much is because your thinking is like his, and he is an open kafir.



AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#26

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:25 pm

Quran is guidance for mankind or an absolute law that no one can question?

Many of the ayats in Quran was for that time & not applicable in modern times. Ayats written about some battles of those times are used as precedence & applied today.

Funny I just happened to see a video in which a cleric said Islam doesn't run by common sense but by laws. So is Quran a guidance with the followers free to decide what to follow & not follow or is it an absolute law?



AgnosticIndian
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:10 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#27

Unread post by AgnosticIndian » Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:44 am

And yes everyone in the world is an infidel/kafir for a Wahabi.



qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1001
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#28

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:45 am

when someone does not have any justification, he labels others as unbeleivers.
as if beleiving and unbeleiving is as clear as black and white.
they have long way argued in the sermon (which i have listend many),
either beleive what we interpret as word of GOD, OR you are unbeleivers.
a large number of people are falling in this clever trap,
once u say yes it is word of GOD, then finish u cannot argue with them as arguing with them
is taken as arguing with GOD and ofcourse u cannot question GOD.
hence at the end u end up with their interpretation.

quran is a book of signs and not science or codified laws.
the shariat or laws are man made especially by scholars who lived at that time and hence could not
comprehend how the world would be 1400 yrs afterwards

similarly as we cannot comprehend how the world will be 1000 yrs afterwards.


quran is a book of signs and not science or codified laws.
the verses(also translated as signs by salafi international) has to be undertood in todays context
if we really beleive quran is guidance till qyamat.



qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1001
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#29

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:52 am

actually dai of bohras and the mullahs of taimiyya ideology are not different.
both do not entertain questions.

one says beleive this coz it is word of GOD.
do u agree with it or not?

the other says beleive this coz it is the word of dai.
do u beleive in dai or not?
have u given misaq or not?
has it not been said, dai is the owner of ur jaan and maal and representative of imam uz zaman wal asr wa heen.?
then how can u question him?



Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: DO BOHRAS NEED THEIR DAI AND HIS DAAWAT?

#30

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:03 am

instead of arguing on how much authority the dai holds and from which scriptural source and ideology he derives his absolute powers, why not just make him and his corrupt rotten establishment redundant in your lives?

as everybody has already seen, his divine authority and absolute powers have absolutely corrupted him, his family and his hired muscles in every jamaat, to the extent that he now views himself as god on earth, a pharaoh who has to be worshipped. his haramkhor amils are falling over each other in sycophancy, creating gems of kufr and shirk every other day with exaggerated versions of the dai's miracles, so much so that if left unchecked they will soon say that the quran itself is a useless and dead document, forget about it, its the dai and his inane ignorant utterances which are supreme.

coming back to the point, its the faith of the bohras in religion and this blind clinging to an outdated ismaili doctrine of a an absolute dai and linking him with a fictitious imam and through him the prophet and finally allah that is the cause of all these problems. the chance that the dai and his deeply entrenched oppressive structure will reform is a stupid pipe dream. what do you do when one of your limbs is affected by gangrene or sepsis beyond repair? you amputate it. it is now time to perform this amputation of the diseased dai and his dawat out of every bohra's body of beliefs. be a good human being, do good for others and earn an honest living, give back to society and mankind, nurture the environment and leave behind a healthy earth and an exemplary legacy for your future generations. isn't that what all the prophets taught or did they come to create an elaborate structure of rituals, traditions and practices which would degenerate eventually into highly sophisticated systems of conning people and oppressing them, turning them into mindless fools who would be manipulated by 2 bit scam artists?