Repercussions of speaking up

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clippedwings
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:33 am

Repercussions of speaking up

#1

Unread post by clippedwings » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:16 pm

I have found that people are becoming more and more vocal against Kothar and the system. I thought I would start a thread for examples of this and whether there were any repercussions (even comments and responses) for doing so.



alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

#2

Unread post by alam » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:28 pm

Back in Jan 2014, After the picketing and bullying pressure that took place 2 nights after wafaat of SMB for people to sign the declaration that MS is true 53rd, I refused to sign. Heads turned, eyes rolled, I got stared down by the mafias, and all I said to them was "Are you going to keep this declaration in my Kabr when I die? If you agree to that, only then I will sign this document" Saying that I simply walked away, and no one came chasing after me.

I also stopped doing salaam and bending and haath joring to Muffy on TV or Amil etc, but if they come and greet me, I just shake hands. These amils and the Jamaat cronies stopped making eye-contact with me after that, except for a few of these ayaans who remain courteous, and sometimes even they respond to my high-fives. Seriously, no joke here.

However, , most of these mafias became cold and distant with me over time, which was completely fine and dandy with me. They don't pressure me anymore nor do they bug me for these idiotic ohbat stuff, and home maatam visits etc etc. Nor have they blocked me from any events that I go. They do ask "oh we don't see you anymore" and I simply give them a big smile, and a twinkle in my eye, that "oh yeah, you're right, I haven't seen you either for a long time".!!

Over time, now, everyone discontinued any attempts to bully or confront me in any way. what I've observed over the last few years is that boldness and courage has increased among other people too, whom I first thought were spineless. You act afraid and as a Yes-Man, you get treated that way.

Fellas, the repercussions of swallowing the humiliations, bullying and insults are far worse on our individual and collective psyches. Anyone can stand up to bullying. We teach that to our children. Time to practice what we preach. I admit, I was spineless for too long. Sure, there may be repercussion, from family and other negative consequences. . Ultimately, you have to decide what you are willing to live with, what you will take in and where you draw the line. I found peace with myself once I started focusing on what is most important to me in my life. I find true friendships and authentic relationships, where love and respect trumps any differences we may have. And of course there are losses too. Its important to surround yourself with people who nourish you, who are your cheerleaders, and accept the grief that comes with those who shun you or betray you. Anyway, that's my experience.



juzer esmail
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:24 am

#3

Unread post by juzer esmail » Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:23 am

Alam bhai which city are you from?



system5
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:10 am

#4

Unread post by system5 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:06 am

I do some what exactly the way Alambhai has done, I though pay my sabeel , but no wajebat, because I believe that sabeel money goes for upkeep of our local area mosques. I have not taken misaq under the new 53rd dai SMS, as I am having my own doubts about his coronation.
I do go to pray in ramadan and in on fridays for full year to the local mosque but does not pray the two rakaats of dai which they do between two faraz. I listen to shia waaz and do not go to our mosque for nine days though they have made it compulsory for everyone, their calls do come to me for my Ecard not being registered even once, I am not afraid to tell them that I cannot sit four hours continously and I do not understand their sermons. I go in the afternoon at 4 pm on ashura day to pay my respect for immam Husein and others.



alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

#5

Unread post by alam » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:42 am

juzer esmail wrote:Alam bhai which city are you from?
Pal, doesn't matter what city. Bohra franchise is same everywhere.



Biradar
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#6

Unread post by Biradar » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:00 am

If you live in the West, there are no repercussions of speaking up, at least not life threatening repercussions. Bohris in general are very submissive and feel that they have no social lives outside their community. Hence they keep quiet about atrocious behavior of the Aamil or his stooges, leave alone even feel courageous enough to criticize, say, the shezadas or More-la Muffy.

One way to put it: to keep the supply of kaaras and mithaas flowing, Bohris sacrifice their personal integrity and even their soul.

These days, though, even the most conservative Bohris feel something is not right with their communities. I mean, who would think it is normal that grown adults are being infantilized by their More-la? Bohris today are being told what to eat and how much, what to wear, how to cry, how to use their money, how to cook, how to sit and stand, and even what to think.

The best way to speak up is to leave the Muffy jamaat completely. Laugh at them, mock them, ridicule them. Don't be afraid, nothing will happen. In the West there is zero chance of physical violence, and at the most you will not be invited to consume huge amounts of food. Which may be a good thing anyway. If you want to maintain your heritage, join the Fatemi Dawaat movement. If you don't want to, then good luck to you, but at least you will have freed yourself from the crazy, baboonish cult of More-la Muffi.

Don't be afraid! Be courageous and leave. The Muffy jamaat is incorrigible and can not be reformed. More than 60 years have passed and instead of the overall community becoming less fanatical, its gotten worse. There is an alternative now, and there really is no excuse to stay. None whatsoever, except cowardice.



tipu sultan
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:24 pm

#7

Unread post by tipu sultan » Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:08 pm

rarely I agree with Biradar but this time your statement is spot on.

Leave , leave for FD or leave for your nearest Shia or Sunni mosque, but don't remain in Muffy world for your Deens sake. ..most large locations in the west have Muslim community within 10 -30 min drive. There is no excuse to say faith will be affected if one leaves Bohra ism.

Muffy world is unreformable, this modern day Mongol has outgunned out maneuvered reformists, authorities and FD.

FD is 50 years away from expanding in hundreds of cities and having numbers and services.In the meantime there will be a generation or 2 which will be lost or misguided. the urgency is either ones kids become YouTube trained FD, Muffy shirk zombies, alcoholics and non Muslims or make them Muslims who prays, fasts understands the tenets. I have chosen the later.



dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 471
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

#8

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:20 pm

Biradar wrote:If you live in the West, there are no repercussions of speaking up, at least not life threatening repercussions. Bohris in general are very submissive and feel that they have no social lives outside their community. Hence they keep quiet about atrocious behavior of the Aamil or his stooges, leave alone even feel courageous enough to criticize, say, the shezadas or More-la Muffy.

One way to put it: to keep the supply of kaaras and mithaas flowing, Bohris sacrifice their personal integrity and even their soul.

These days, though, even the most conservative Bohris feel something is not right with their communities. I mean, who would think it is normal that grown adults are being infantilized by their More-la? Bohris today are being told what to eat and how much, what to wear, how to cry, how to use their money, how to cook, how to sit and stand, and even what to think.

The best way to speak up is to leave the Muffy jamaat completely. Laugh at them, mock them, ridicule them. Don't be afraid, nothing will happen. In the West there is zero chance of physical violence, and at the most you will not be invited to consume huge amounts of food. Which may be a good thing anyway. If you want to maintain your heritage, join the Fatemi Dawaat movement. If you don't want to, then good luck to you, but at least you will have freed yourself from the crazy, baboonish cult of More-la Muffi.

Don't be afraid! Be courageous and leave. The Muffy jamaat is incorrigible and can not be reformed. More than 60 years have passed and instead of the overall community becoming less fanatical, its gotten worse. There is an alternative now, and there really is no excuse to stay. None whatsoever, except cowardice.
Let follow what you are saying. Suppose I leave and openly join FD. Yes, I will be cut off from the jammat, but let us say that I can take that. Now there is a marriage in the family. And I cannot attend , or I cannot even be openly seen with them in the course of normal exchanges. Won't that hurt me and my family?
Look at all the stories of the reformists and the hardships that they had to go thru. Are we sure it is as easy as you make it out? Yes the SMS dawat is out of control, just let us level on the cost of leaving.



I Rizwan
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:33 am

#9

Unread post by I Rizwan » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:33 am

I though pay my sabeel
This is a very right way to deal with kothar and its mafias, I am doing the same.

pay your sabil because it is used for masjid and jamaat khana maintenance and bills, dont pay any thing, today was EID and I dint gave any special cover for dai or any thing else.

stop paying every thing else other than yearly sabeel, that too in proper limits.



Biradar
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#10

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:31 am

dal-chaval-palidu wrote:
Let follow what you are saying. Suppose I leave and openly join FD. Yes, I will be cut off from the jammat, but let us say that I can take that. Now there is a marriage in the family. And I cannot attend , or I cannot even be openly seen with them in the course of normal exchanges. Won't that hurt me and my family?
Look at all the stories of the reformists and the hardships that they had to go thru. Are we sure it is as easy as you make it out? Yes the SMS dawat is out of control, just let us level on the cost of leaving.
Do you really think attending a wedding function is so horribly important, that you will sacrifice your whole life, soul and peace of mind for one or two meals? I mean, really? Say you do not get invited to a wedding function. What will you miss? A few kaaras and a couple of mithass? Hanging out with your family? Also, who told you that you cannot be "even seen with them"? Its ridiculous. I still mingle with Muffy dawaat followers without any issues. And many others do too. Once people get over the initial awkwardness, its no longer a problem. Just don't be "in-your-face" with your family, respect their choices and you will be fine. Perhaps when they see your example they will leave the Iblisi Toli too.

Also, the situation here is very different than what the reform movement faced. We are now in the 21st century, and you are likely in the West. Don't be afraid, and don't be so hung on eating nice food that you become a hypocrite. Please read what the Qur'an has to say about hypocrites, before you choose nice wedding food over the correct path. Grow a spine, and stand up for what you believe. Or else the Iblisi Mafia will never change and will continue to exploit you more and more. Next year, instead of screaming "aaaaaah" you will be made to do a mad dance, or tear your beard and clothes and slap your face and hand over all your money to More-la Muffy, the Bakasur of the Bohris. Please, escape while you can!




Biradar
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#11

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:36 am

tipu sultan wrote:rarely I agree with Biradar but this time your statement is spot on.

....

the urgency is either ones kids become YouTube trained FD, Muffy shirk zombies, alcoholics and non Muslims or make them Muslims who prays, fasts understands the tenets. I have chosen the later.
Please tell me, do you think the Fatemi Dawaat people DO NOT pray, fast and understand the tenents of Islam? Please, let us know your amazing qualifications to judge, and how many years of study you have made of Islam. Or perhaps you do not need to study as you are getting direct inspiration from Allah and are a new prophet. Which it it? You seem to have taken up the role of judge and jury and think only you know what "Islam" really is.



juzer esmail
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:24 am

#12

Unread post by juzer esmail » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:27 am

Thanks Biradar for sharing your views. I hope more people in the western world shun these Mafia which would have some repercussions in India too.



zinger
Posts: 1865
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

#13

Unread post by zinger » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:28 am

Biradar wrote:
dal-chaval-palidu wrote:
Let follow what you are saying. Suppose I leave and openly join FD. Yes, I will be cut off from the jammat, but let us say that I can take that. Now there is a marriage in the family. And I cannot attend , or I cannot even be openly seen with them in the course of normal exchanges. Won't that hurt me and my family?
Look at all the stories of the reformists and the hardships that they had to go thru. Are we sure it is as easy as you make it out? Yes the SMS dawat is out of control, just let us level on the cost of leaving.
Do you really think attending a wedding function is so horribly important, that you will sacrifice your whole life, soul and peace of mind for one or two meals? I mean, really? Say you do not get invited to a wedding function. What will you miss? A few kaaras and a couple of mithass? Hanging out with your family? Also, who told you that you cannot be "even seen with them"? Its ridiculous. I still mingle with Muffy dawaat followers without any issues. And many others do too. Once people get over the initial awkwardness, its no longer a problem. Just don't be "in-your-face" with your family, respect their choices and you will be fine. Perhaps when they see your example they will leave the Iblisi Toli too.

Also, the situation here is very different than what the reform movement faced. We are now in the 21st century, and you are likely in the West. Don't be afraid, and don't be so hung on eating nice food that you become a hypocrite. Please read what the Qur'an has to say about hypocrites, before you choose nice wedding food over the correct path. Grow a spine, and stand up for what you believe. Or else the Iblisi Mafia will never change and will continue to exploit you more and more. Next year, instead of screaming "aaaaaah" you will be made to do a mad dance, or tear your beard and clothes and slap your face and hand over all your money to More-la Muffy, the Bakasur of the Bohris. Please, escape while you can!

Birader, DCP is speaking metaphorically

He doesn't literally mean missing jamans but the overall larger picture of being cut of from his circle of families and friends



Biradar
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#14

Unread post by Biradar » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:19 am

zinger wrote: Birader, DCP is speaking metaphorically

He doesn't literally mean missing jamans but the overall larger picture of being cut of from his circle of families and friends
I understand that. However, given his name, "DCP" its likely that for him the "bigger" picture is not being able to sit with his buddies and gorging on dal, chaval and palidu. Thats the problem with Bohri's isn't it? They love their food and social circle so much, that they are ready to sacrifice their principles. In that sense, I have more respect for Muffy fanatics like pervert Adam, or guy_sam. At least they really believe, however mistakenly, that Iblisi Muffy really is the best thing after sliced bread.

You too are in the same boat as DCP. Complain, complain, complain. But like a spineless cretin crawl back to Muffy organized jaamans and events. Why, for god's sake!? Please stop! Grow up and grow a spine.

As many, including people like Humsafar, have pointed out, the failure of the Reform Movement is a failure of the Bohra people. They simply can't be bothered to step beyond the confines of their thaals, and when they have satisfied their gluttony, from the rida of their mother, sister and wife.

Wake up! You are being ripped every day. I heard now that women are supposed to celebrate "milaad" of Mrs. Muffy and, of course, bring faakhir salaam and fat covers. Even on solemn occasion of Eid which passed by, reminders are sent to bring covers, Silat al-Imam, Qardan Hassana etc etc. In fact, I have heard that in some places, even if you can't attend yourself, you can fill up a form to "pledge" your amounts and then write a cheque at the end of the month! Muffy's greed for money and power is limitless!!

When will this stop? It will NEVER stop, unless spineless cretins stop groveling and fawning, grow a spine and give the Aamil and fat shehzadas a kick on their backsides.




alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

#15

Unread post by alam » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:22 pm

Biradar's posts on this thread are off-topic, more so because it is the same simplistic, sarcastic, contemptuous tone without regard for others who see the bohra world through different shades of grey, rather than the typical fanatical black and white point of view. I couldn't agree more that Biradar has compared himself to Adam and company. Indeed they are birds of the same feather. I think he is just one of them, with his idiotic and simplistic solution of "just join FD" and all will be fine. No different from "just eat FMB jaman" and you'll get well. He is one of them, displaying the same fanatical and judgemental intolerance, as Muffy abdes do, and the tiresome cynism.
Better to chronicle personal experiences, sticking to the topic rather than sounding like a broken record with the same sweeping generalizations.



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#16

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:55 pm

The 3 basic nonsensical things drilled into Bohra's minds which prevents them from coming out in the open are :-

1. Fear of losing the social circle.... the regular jamans, sitabis etc etc.
2. Fear of not being able to get the Bohra Amil for performing Nikah of their siblings.... They are made to believe that the Bohra Amil is the ONLY authorised person on this earth to perform Nikah and getting it done by any other muslim Amil means that the marriage is illegitimate.
3. Fear of not getting a burial place in Bohra Qabrastan... They are made to believe that the flight to Jannat takes off ONLY from the Bohra Qabrastan and nowhere else.

There is also a stereotype statement from every Amil that if you dont pay your dues (extortion) then "Aakhir ma tamey kya jaso ? Nikah aney Mayyat na waqt to tamare hamara paase aavuj padse"

This is nothing but an art of Fear Psychosis orchestrated by the evil minds of Saifee Mahal and until and unless Bohras overcome this fear, the Saifee Mahal mafias will continue to rule and enslave the community.



Biradar
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#17

Unread post by Biradar » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:35 pm

alam wrote:Biradar's posts ...

Better to chronicle personal experiences, sticking to the topic rather than sounding like a broken record with the same sweeping generalizations.
Those who make excuses are the ones who are "sounding like a broken record". Honestly, the whole Reform Movement has failed due to lack of a spine amongst Bohris. People like Aliasgar Engineer sacrificed everything they had. Early Reformist leaders put themselves at risk and took a stance for principles, standing up against the Kothra. Yet, you are content to complain.

So 60 years later, we are still in the same mess. All we hear from people like yourself is: "Oh, I am too afraid", "Oh, I will not get to eat lots of fattening food", "Oh, my wife will be unhappy", "Oh, my friends will not invite me to jamaans". All excuses, excuses, excuses. When will you stop excuses and do something? What does "chronicle personal experiences" tell us, besides show you are a coward? Let me know.

The solution really is simple: vote with your feet. I am not saying to join Fatemi Dawaat. I have already said that 100 times, but spineless cretins won't understand. I am saying: leave Muffy dawaat. Thats all.



tipu sultan
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:24 pm

#18

Unread post by tipu sultan » Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:23 am

Biradar if you paused to think before you replied I stated youtube FD meaning it has no centres in most citis en lightened Bohras live...people listen to Skype and youtube sermons yes that is excellent initiative to counter Muffy but does not build societies society is crated by groupings and associations.

come on asking people to huddle in homes watch YouTube when there is FMB full functioning Muffy circus on one side of the city and a Ummah centre down the street which one of the 3 will help you when one needs to buried, or nikah or jamaat prayers.....that's what I meant ..the centre down the street which welcomes everyone will take care of your rituals and is far far cheaper than Muffy . I don't know what FD costs but one cannot do nikah on Skype or youtube.

now where dId you conclude I said FD don't pray...Alam is right and I stated that i rarely agree with you..I now say never...%_%£€_£¥_

you asked how many years I studied Islam...since I was born and still learning..do I care what you think ..no ...why have you achieved everything ..and are you the arrogant ones Allah has mentioned
I shall turn away from My revelations those who show pride in the world wrongfully.” (7.146)

Allah has said in another place in the Quran:

“And in this way Allah does put a seal on every arrogant disdainful heart.” (40.35)

2. The wrath and punishment of Allah fall on the jealous person. Allah has said:

“Certainly He does not love the proud ones.” (16:23)



SBM
Posts: 6151
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#19

Unread post by SBM » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:11 am

So 60 years later, we are still in the same mess.
Well Br Biradar
How many years did it take for Blacks to become free from Slavery?
You keep ignoring the fact that Reformist movement does not have unlimited financial support like SMS and FD have.
And donot forget your favorite FD has NOT done anything yet of significance for Abdes. They are too busy fighting and spending their LOOT with lawyers to get part of the Empire.



humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

#20

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:08 pm

once a person truly discovers what a thief these religious conmen are. it become steadily encouraging to leave the cult and once out of the rut .. one is so liberated .. that the nightmare once it was looks like entertainment .. only the free thinkers and free souls can understand the delight of freedom.

no amount of loud and heroic rebellion is gonna change this faith business .. this is a lifelong struggle of salvaging souls .. while new ones are born condemned to faith business.



UnhappyBohra
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

#21

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:15 pm

SBM wrote:
So 60 years later, we are still in the same mess.
Well Br Biradar
How many years did it take for Blacks to become free from Slavery?
You keep ignoring the fact that Reformist movement does not have unlimited financial support like SMS and FD have.
And donot forget your favorite FD has NOT done anything yet of significance for Abdes. They are too busy fighting and spending their LOOT with lawyers to get part of the Empire.

SBM, for a man of the world, your naivette is staggering. Do you think that Fatemi Dawat are fighting solely for personal gain? Don't you think that those who have answered the call of Fatemi Dawat want their leaders to fight for the properties that they have contributed to all their lives and for their rightful identity as Dawoodi Bohras? Fatemi Dawat has achieved more in it's short three years than reformists have in 70. They are rightly guided as Bohras, they are organized, they hold miqats, they have a madrassah, they do community service, they are preparing for a court case to take on the MS machinery. In comparison, the Progressive Jamaat organization is abyssmal. They may have had one off success in thwarting MS but that is very different from being an alternative to MS. Those who complain that FD do not have a presence in their cities should ask themselves why they themselves are not doing anything to get organized in their city with the help of FD.



Humsafar
Posts: 2488
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

#22

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:35 pm

UnhappyBohra wrote: SBM, for a man of the world, your naivette is staggering. Do you think that Fatemi Dawat are fighting solely for personal gain? Don't you think that those who have answered the call of Fatemi Dawat want their leaders to fight for the properties that they have contributed to all their lives and for their rightful identity as Dawoodi Bohras? Fatemi Dawat has achieved more in it's short three years than reformists have in 70. They are rightly guided as Bohras, they are organized, they hold miqats, they have a madrassah, they do community service, they are preparing for a court case to take on the MS machinery. In comparison, the Progressive Jamaat organization is abyssmal. They may have had one off success in thwarting MS but that is very different from being an alternative to MS. Those who complain that FD do not have a presence in their cities should ask themselves why they themselves are not doing anything to get organized in their city with the help of FD.
Oh Please, enough of trumpeting of Fatemi Dawat. It is no more than a piece cut from the old, soiled cloth. It's only saving grace is that it is not as cretinous as the Mufaddal circus. Other than that it is keen to continue with the traditions of ancien regime, and still is in no mood to criticise or call into question the worst and most egregious aspects of SMB's rule. Don't forget that SMB consolidated the exploitation and repression regime started by his father. The worst atrocities on Bohras happened during his tenure, Galiyakot and Udaipur happened under his watch. He is the reason that the community is splintered, he is the reason that Mufaddal is having his way, he is the reason that FD has to go to the secular courts to prove their truth, he is the reason that Bohras today are brain-dead and spineless and flocking to Mufaddal's bandwagon.

So long as the FD and its acolytes continue to airbrush the legacy of STS and SMB they will have little credibility. And it is delusional for anyone to think that Fatemi Dawat movement is for the benefit of common Bohras. They are just interested in their piece of the pie. Those who think otherwise are in for a rude shock. Comparing FD with the progressive movement is disingenuous. The latter is a genuinely peoples' movement and only aware, enlightened Bohras can add to its strength and success. It's meagre successes are a sad commentary on the kind of followers the string of Sayednas (including Khuzema Qutbuddin) have nurtured.



ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

#23

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:12 pm

Humsafar wrote:Don't forget that SMB consolidated the exploitation and repression regime started by his father. The worst atrocities on Bohras happened during his tenure, Galiyakot and Udaipur happened under his watch. He is the reason that the community is splintered, he is the reason that Mufaddal is having his way, he is the reason that FD has to go to the secular courts to prove their truth, he is the reason that Bohras today are brain-dead and spineless and flocking to Mufaddal's bandwagon.

So long as the FD and its acolytes continue to airbrush the legacy of STS and SMB they will have little credibility
.
Bro Humsafar,

What you have stated above is the bottom line, in fact it is the ROOT CAUSE of all the problems facing the community. Religion was hijacked by these 2 Dais who enriched themselves and their parasite families and reduced the beautiful religion to a Cult. Till such time that Bohras do not accept these facts, we will not see any positive change. What is more worrisome is that even the future of the coming generations is now at stake due to the spineless and cowardly attitude of the present day Bohras who brag about the great sacrifices of Imam Hussain a.s. and do matam 24x7 but support the Yazid of today who sells Hussain's vayez to the highest bidding jamat, enters the Masjid during Mohurrum in a Yazidi fashion and licks the backside of the present day Yazids like Modi !!



objectiveobserver53
Posts: 301
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

#24

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:24 pm

Humsafar wrote:
UnhappyBohra wrote: SBM, for a man of the world, your naivette is staggering. Do you think that Fatemi Dawat are fighting solely for personal gain? Don't you think that those who have answered the call of Fatemi Dawat want their leaders to fight for the properties that they have contributed to all their lives and for their rightful identity as Dawoodi Bohras? Fatemi Dawat has achieved more in it's short three years than reformists have in 70. They are rightly guided as Bohras, they are organized, they hold miqats, they have a madrassah, they do community service, they are preparing for a court case to take on the MS machinery. In comparison, the Progressive Jamaat organization is abyssmal. They may have had one off success in thwarting MS but that is very different from being an alternative to MS. Those who complain that FD do not have a presence in their cities should ask themselves why they themselves are not doing anything to get organized in their city with the help of FD.
Oh Please, enough of trumpeting of Fatemi Dawat. It is no more than a piece cut from the old, soiled cloth. It's only saving grace is that it is not as cretinous as the Mufaddal circus. Other than that it is keen to continue with the traditions of ancien regime, and still is in no mood to criticise or call into question the worst and most egregious aspects of SMB's rule. Don't forget that SMB consolidated the exploitation and repression regime started by his father. The worst atrocities on Bohras happened during his tenure, Galiyakot and Udaipur happened under his watch. He is the reason that the community is splintered, he is the reason that Mufaddal is having his way, he is the reason that FD has to go to the secular courts to prove their truth, he is the reason that Bohras today are brain-dead and spineless and flocking to Mufaddal's bandwagon.

So long as the FD and its acolytes continue to airbrush the legacy of STS and SMB they will have little credibility. And it is delusional for anyone to think that Fatemi Dawat movement is for the benefit of common Bohras. They are just interested in their piece of the pie. Those who think otherwise are in for a rude shock. Comparing FD with the progressive movement is disingenuous. The latter is a genuinely peoples' movement and only aware, enlightened Bohras can add to its strength and success. It's meagre successes are a sad commentary on the kind of followers the string of Sayednas (including Khuzema Qutbuddin) have nurtured.
You are right Hamsafar. There is no comparison between FD and the reformist movement. Fatemi Dawat are doers, whatever else you may call them. And please stop comparing them with MS dawat. I have the opportunity to observe both at close quarters and I do not see ANY similarities in the power structure. The people of FD have taken charge of their own future and are very careful not to make the mistakes of their forefathers. At the same time they are not nursing old wounds or driving by looking in the rear-view mirror. I would not go as far as Biradar and urge you to join FD. Perhaps that ship has sailed. But for the sake of your own future, quit nursing old wounds. Take an Advil and look ahead. Feel free to rant at my unsolicited advice but we do so get sick of all the whinging with little action that goes on here.



Excalibur
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:28 am

#25

Unread post by Excalibur » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:48 pm

Back to the topic of "Repercussions of speaking up" - Some folks from our local jamaat are visiting everybody's home to convince them to host a matam majlis at their homes. Apparently, some initiative of the new Dai. Not sure why the newly appointed fellas have to keep inventing stuff to assert their influence. Anyway - I said no and stuck to it. I am a fence sitter and anyway cannot be threatened much. One should know the basic bare minimum about the religion so that these things can be countered effectively. Who says you have to host a majlis at home to be a good Mumin or to go to Jannat ?

Saying NO is not difficult. Show some spine and you'll be treated all right. Bend - and you will be trampled upon.



juzer esmail
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:24 am

#26

Unread post by juzer esmail » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:10 am

Well done Excalibur. Same is happening everywhere including my city where they are forcing us to do Majlis. Last Sunday there were 7 Majlis in one day!. And the Majlis is atrocious as they tutor you to make Rova Jevu Moh etc. Also there's a audio clip where Muffy says explicitly that if you question the Rova Jevu Moh antics, you are against Rasulullah SAW and you belong to the toli of Yazid. These are his exact words.
I somehow feel that we are the only community who invokes the name of Yazid and Shimr the most.



SBM
Posts: 6151
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#27

Unread post by SBM » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:03 am

You are right Hamsafar. There is no comparison between FD and the reformist movement.
Correct
Members of Reformist movement worked to support their families and did not live in posh houses, Fatemi Dawat is still thriving from the loot they shared before the split.
Reformist Movement people did not have high powered lawyers to fight for them to get piece of an Empire, they talked and walked about corruption and reform while FD still praises the atrocities and corruption created by the two former Dais.
Yes there is no comparision...



Humsafar
Posts: 2488
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

#28

Unread post by Humsafar » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:53 pm

objectiveobserver53 wrote: The people of FD have taken charge of their own future and are very careful not to make the mistakes of their forefathers.
That is some progress I suppose, acknowledging that the infallible forefathers made mistakes. Still I'm not convinced that the Fatemi Dawat is actually moved by the plight of the Bohras and is keen on righting the wrongs of forefathers for their sake. Your FD people are making concessions, whatever their worth, only to win over support. For, pause to think for a moment, if Mufaddal had not happened and if Khuzema Qutbuddin had become the undisputed Dai do you think Fatemi Dawat or its "reformed" ideology would even exist? Or would it even remotely admit to the mistakes of the forefathers? Or would it talk about change or of taking charge of its own future? Don't think so. FD would have proudly continued in the rut of mistakes created by forefathers. They only have to thank Mufaddal to be so outrageously stupid, it doesn't take much to claim superiority over him.



kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

#29

Unread post by kimanumanu » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:49 pm

I have said this before and will repeat it again that clubbing together SKQ (and FD) with the atrocities of Kothar is not fair. After the split it has become very clear how marginalised SKQ was - SMS himself called him a "dushman" in one of the ashara waaz. There has to be a reason why he was cast out despite holding on to, what now has turned out to be, a Mazoon post in title only. Clearly, neither SMS nor the majority of current royal family had any respect for him or his kids. All this is very obvious now to the extent they actually celebrated his passing with fireworks and burning effigies.

Given the above, FD deserve to be given the benefit of doubt. Their intentions are perhaps backed by the experience of late SKQ during his lifetime. At the same time, you only have to attend one of the events in the SMS run jamaat to realise how much propaganda and brain-washing is happening. Nowadays, every event will have a 30 minute video shown - very cleverly chosen duration so that the masses are neither bored nor ignore what is being shown. This cunning subliminal messaging is happening on every occassion and the videos are very cleverly put together with the customary inclusion of Syedna Burhanuddin RA janaza (to extract maximum emotional outpouring) and carefully edited positioning of SMS actions. There really is no escaping his presence whether he is physically there or not. Also just look at the very polished website that has been created to counter this website - yes, now there is a thedawoodibohras.com too!

And this is the main battle now - kothar has clued up and woken up to the power of the internet, social media and even YouTube, perhaps taking a leaf out of FD book.



alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

#30

Unread post by alam » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:31 pm

The people of FD have taken charge of their own future and are very careful not to make the mistakes of their forefathers. At the same time they are not nursing old wounds or driving by looking in the rear-view mirror.
Do they have the guts to come out and boldly decline the title Shehzada? Do they have the guts to acknowledge that SKQ played passive role in Dawat, as did SMB, and that perhaps none of the crap in the aftermath of SMB wafaat would have happened if SMB/SKQ had the guts to sacrifice their fringe benefits from the Corporation sole of Dawat Hadiya, for the prevention of present day court cases, baraats, and family divisiveness? All they do is play victim role, (talwaro chali jaase, as an excuse) , which is somehow supposed to exonerate them from their crime of inaction while they did have legitimate authority, which veryy well could have changed the course of Dawat History.

From what the story goes, it seems SKQ was sympathetic and in sync with the reformists of the 1960s, as evidenced by his actions in Africa, where he attempted to overturn YN's actions for baraat of the reformists. He did seem to be down to earth, reasonable, and open to feedback, and perhaps very sympathetic to the reform movement back then. However, he didn't stand up to his principles when he got bullied, for fear of how he could be perceived back then, and losing the fringe benefits as mentioned above. After SKQ got the raw end of the deal, he gave up and started being a docile Mazun, cowing down to his big brother YN and SMB.

FD surrogates like Biradar and company in their frustration and rage defeat their cause by throwing fire at the Bohras who otherwise may be likely to be distilled with growing courage and confidence with personal, credible stories of resiliency among today's Bohras.

Now that FDs have been booted out of power, their magical quick solution is to attribute blame, calling out the masses who don't join them in their battle cry as hypocrites and cowards. These simplistic delusions do more harm than good. I think the SKQ clan are still in shock and denial to even acknowledge the misuse of power and excesses, including inaction to right the, wrongs that were committed by their forefathers. The doctrine of - oops, the lense of infallibility, once removed can go a long way in acknowledging errors, wrongdoings, mistakes.

FD movement is at turtle speed, as was/is the reform movement.

I agree with SBM here with the example from American slavery. Unfortunately, sometimes things get worse, far far worse, before effective action wipes out evil. Hitler's Germany, with the help of the allied forces took decades and decades to wipe out the impact of Nazi horror.

Will the new Dais present and future evolve to wipe out evil? Will they take off their lense of infallibility once in a while? Not without the help of the people. Will the people unite to wipe out evil? Perhaps they will, or perhaps not without sound leadership from within or beyond. More questions than answers.