Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

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mohammed_truthseeker
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:01 am

Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#1

Unread post by mohammed_truthseeker » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:17 pm

What is the difference as far as the faith is concerned between Alavi, Sulemani and Dawoodi Bohras? Also, Can somebody shed light as to the approximate population of each and which sect is best placed as far as Religious leadership is concerned.

Wasalaam
Mohammed

Shahu
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#2

Unread post by Shahu » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:32 pm

Please visit following site of Alavi Bohra to find out their history.

http://www.alavibohra.org/index.htm

mumineen
Posts: 494
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#3

Unread post by mumineen » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:04 am

OTHER Bohri Sects:

Posted by S. Insaf (Member # 532) on October 31, 2005, 08:28 AM:

Bohras - Sects and Sub-sects
Sulemani Bohras – Dr. Brown in his book ‘Literary History of Persia and Al-Fakhri, the historian of Addaside and Fatimi dynasties say that Suleman could only influence the majority of Ismaili Bohras in Yemen about his claim of Sayedna Daud bin Ajabshah’s successor; therefore the majority of Sulemani Bohras remained and they still live in Yeman and their main Da'i also stays in Yemen. Most of them are of Arabian stock. It should also be noted that there are no substantial theological and doctrinal differences between the Sulemanis and Dawoodis. The dispute related to the question of succession alone. They also believe in doctrine of Misaq but Misaq is taken for Imam and their Dai uses no compulsion for it.
The Alia Bohras – When 29th Dai Sayedna Abdul Tayeb Zakiuddin succeeded Sayedna Sheikh Adam Safiyuddin in 1612 A.D. the community once more split on the question of succession. Sayedna Sheikh Adam Safiyuddin's grandson, Ali became the claimant this time. Ali took the matter to the court of Jehangir in Lahore who, according to the Bohra sources, gave decision in favour of Sayedna Abdul Tayeb Zakiuddin Saheb. However, a small group followed Ali bin Ibrahim and came to be known as Alia Bohras. Their number does not exceed 10,000.
Nagpuri Bohras – After the dispute about ‘nass’ during 47th Dai 47th, 48th, 49th and 50th Dais did claim the title of Dail-Mutlaq. Even 51st Dai Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb did not claim the title of Dail-Mutlaq in Chandabhoy Galla case and Burhanpur Dargah case. But after defeat in thse two cases he started writing Dail-Mutlaq in front of his name. That became a matter of dispute among Dawoodi Bohra ulema. So the split among the Dawoodis again occurred in the late 19th century on the question of 'nass.' A new sect Nagpuri Bohras was formed. They say that the 46th Da'i, Syedna Badruddin died before making proper 'nass and Sayedna Abdul Qader Najmuddin Saheb took over, but he was not accepted as the Dai'i unanimously. Many accepted him only as a nazim (in charge), not as a legitimate one. Among all the sect maximum Lanats (curses) are showered on Nagpurias.
Thereafter again a new sect came into existence when a young talented businessman of Kapadwanj claimed to have established communion with the Imam in seclusion, and that he was appointed hujjat (the highest functionary after Imam). Those who followed him are known as Mehdibaghwala.
Atab-e-Malak Vakil - However, this tiny community again split on the question of succession Abdul Husain Jiwajee who now called himself Hujjat-e-Qa'im appointed Maulana Vakil Saheb who proclaimed himself as the Qa'im. He also had appointed one Ghulam Hussain (Khan Bahadur H.H.Malik) as hijab (an important functionary of Imam).
Some accepted his son, Muhammad Rleso as his rightful successor. They were known as Mehdibaghwala where as the former group was called Atab-e-Malak Vakil.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by S. Insaf (Member # 532) on October 31, 2005, 08:31 AM:

Please read as ....47th, 48th, 49th and 50th Dais did NOT claim the title of Dail-Mutlaq.

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
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Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#4

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:00 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mumineen:
[QB]OTHER Bohri Sects:

Posted by S. Insaf (Member # 532) on October 31, 2005, 08:28 AM:

Bohras - Sects and Sub-sects
Suleman could only influence the majority of Ismaili Bohras in Yemen about his claim of Sayedna Daud bin Ajabshah’s successor; therefore the majority of Sulemani Bohras remained and they still live in Yeman.....

Dear Mumineen,

Insaf Saheb is right in qouting the book and history, I would just like to update the fact that after the excesses and tortures of Zaidian in Yeman Sulemanis left Yeman in order to proceed to India. Some other tribes in Najran located in north of Yeman offered them to stay there. After the formation and unification of Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Najran become the southern province of Saudi Arabia. Dai of Sulemani bohras which is populary known as Makrami Cult in Saudi Arabia is staying in Mansooriya city of Najran. In June 2005 their Dai passes away and new dai took the thorn. Unfortunately like other bohra sect a spilt took place and they are devided in two hussaini & Muheisini sects. However Hussaini are in majority and their number are around 150,000. There was major crackdown on Sulemani bohras in Saudi Arabia in recent past. Event are changed after Kind Abdullah took the Charge in 2005. You may find much about them but in Arabic language.

Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#5

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:03 pm

Unfortunately like other bohra sect a spilt took place and they are devided in two hussaini & Muheisini sects. However Hussaini are in majority and their number are around 150,000.
Unfortunately?

That is going to happen to every sect not folowing Qur'an and Sunnah.

Wasalaam
.

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#6

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:34 pm

Originally posted by Muslim First:
Unfortunately like other bohra sect a spilt took place and they are devided in two hussaini & Muheisini sects. However Hussaini are in majority and their number are around 150,000.
Unfortunately?

That is going to happen to every sect not folowing Qur'an and Sunnah.

Wasalaam
.
May I know why there are different sects in muslim community who are following Quran and Sunna?

Leave about the four schools of thought like Shafei,Maliki, hanbali and hanafi, every day you will hear of new sect and new cult like salafi, Deobandi, El - Hadith, Ehle Sunna etc.

I wrote unfortunately because I feel sorry for spilt in a community. You don't feel? it is your perception.

Brother before making a futher devide into communities the more important thing is to save whatever in hand. If we could save them than we can only talk about coming to one plate form and other things.

Muslim First
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Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#7

Unread post by Muslim First » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:43 pm

Br. Hussain

Please read this:

Our Stance Towards the Differences Amongst the Scholars

Wasalaam
.

mohammed_truthseeker
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#8

Unread post by mohammed_truthseeker » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:44 pm

So, is it true that the Dawoodi Bohras are the largest in numbers?

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#9

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:44 am

Originally posted by Muslim First:
Br. Hussain

Please read this:

Our Stance Towards the Differences Amongst the Scholars

Wasalaam

Thanks. Indeed a good site to improve my knowledge. Jazakallah Khar.

I would like to talk to you if possible.
.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#10

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:49 am

Br. Hussain

AS

Our belief in our religion should be simple and following Hadith supports it.

(From An-Nawawi's 40 Hadith- #22)

On the authority of Abu Abdullah Jabir the son of Abdullah al-ansari (may Allah be pleased with both)

A man asked the Messenger of Allah SAW:
Do you think that if?
• I perform the Obligatory (Fird) prayers,
• Fast in Ramadan,
• Treat lawful that which is lawful and treat forbidden that which is forbidden,

And do nothing further, I shall enter Paradise?
He (Prophet SAW) said: YES.
related by Muslim


So any brother or sister follows the above will In-shah Allah enter Jannah.

Our religion does not require any more then this.

Why waste time in Urus, milad, bethak, etc. etc or seeking Shifa from all kinds of Taghuts.

Murad Hoffamn in his book "Islam: The Alternative" Writes about Shiasm
It all started with a political dispute, ultimately on a matter of monarchy, which was only later given theological basis. (Page 71)
So all these sub-sects of Shiasm are nothing but little princely states, trying to hold on to their taxpaying citizens.

Wasalaam
.

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#11

Unread post by Alislam » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:12 pm

Murad Hoffamn in his book "Islam: The Alternative" Writes about Shiasm quote: It all started with a political dispute, ultimately on a matter of monarchy, which was only later given theological basis. (Page 71)

--- Do you want to know what many other thinkers have to say about wahabbis ??

So all these sub-sects of Shiasm are nothing but little princely states, trying to hold on to their taxpaying citizens.

--- What about the other sects of Sunnis esp wahabis, salfis, deobandis, etc

First try to clean you own house before pointing fingers at others.

Can you change your wahabi masters and the Gulf rulers who does everything against islam and take pride in killing other muslims by supporting the western and zionist regime..why no word for them ??

Atleast a shia state (Iran) has the guts to take punga with them and talks about Islamic unity.

Above Average Bohra
Posts: 362
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Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#12

Unread post by Above Average Bohra » Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:16 pm

Alislam,

By your logic, the first person to actually take panga with them was a wahhabi, or was Osama a shia?

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#13

Unread post by Alislam » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:14 pm

Osama was nowhere in Picture when the Iranian revolution happened in Iran.

Ayatollah Khomeni took panga and described US as "Bada Shaitan"

Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#14

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:18 pm

--- Do you want to know what many other thinkers have to say about wahabbis ??
Yes, What did you read?
--- What about the other sects of Sunnis esp wahabis, salfis, deobandis, etc
They are madhabs.
They do not have somebody who collects taxes and other dues. For example, if I am Deobendi then I do not kiss feet of progeny of Deoband MUlla and do not pay my dues to them. I am just following their teaching. You can join them or leave them freely.
Can you change your wahabi masters and the Gulf rulers who does everything against islam and take pride in killing other muslims by supporting the western and zionist regime..why no word for them ??
Where I live they dont rule. It is up to their citizens to rise agaist them and throw them out.
Atleast a shia state (Iran) has the guts to take punga with them and talks about Islamic unity.
Action speaks louder. Let us wait till Ahmedinajad straps on six shooter, gets on his donkey and marches towards Jerusalam and liberarte it.

BTW I am simply a Muslim and do exactly what Hadith described. I do not prostitude myself for Jaman.

Wasalaam
.

Alislam
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#15

Unread post by Alislam » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:24 pm

As usual when you are cornered, your replies do not make any sense..

What has jaman/prostitute/feet kissing/etc have to do with our current discussion ??

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#16

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:52 pm

What has jaman/prostitute/feet kissing/etc have to do with our current discussion ??
I order to be Mumin Bohra you have to be in fold. That means you have to kiss feet of Mullaji ( I have read some Jamaat forms where you are requred to report last Kadam Bosi). You are requred to attend all unnecessary functions and your reward is Jaman.

I am here ask questions, or open new forum somewhere else. May be you do not understand answers.

Wasalaam
.

yusuftopiwala
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#17

Unread post by yusuftopiwala » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:45 am

More about Atba-e-Malak or Atba-e-Malak Vakil

The Atba-e-Malak is a sect of Dawoodi Boharas and according to the religious beliefs and tenets of the Dawoodi Bohras, there is cycle of 60,000 years, comprising of 3000 years being the period of Fatrat (i.e. lethargy preceding the period of Satar), the next 7000 years being the period of “Daur-us-Satar” (i.e. period of Covering or Secrecy at the end of which Maulana Qayem would appear) and the next period of 50,000 years of “Daur-us-Kashf” (i.e. the Age of Light). The Dawoodi Bohras believe in their religious texts, the Quran, the Sahifa, the Nasihat and all religious and historical manuscripts written and accepted in the time of our Imams and the Dai-ul-Mutlaqs. It is the belief of the Dawoodi Bohras that there is at all times a Command of God to carry on his Spiritual Mission on earth called “AMAR” and which “Amar” is transmitted from one to another by appointment which is termed “Nuss”, and that person to whom the “Amar” is transmitted by Nuss, alone can carry on the same in his time.

We (Atba-e-Malak) have faith and believe in all the Imams from Maulana Hasan bin Maulana Ali Saheb to 21st Imam Maulana Tayeb Saheb and thereafter Dai-ul-Mutlaqs from Sayedna Zoeb Saheb to 46th Dai-ul-Mutlaq Sayedna Mohammed Badruddin Saheb up to the Hijri year 1256 (A.D. 1840). In the Hijri year 1256, the “Amar” passed into seclusion and the four Sahebs who carried on the “Amar” in seclusion are called as Mumallekeens one after the other from the year 1256 upto the year 1309 Hijri (A.D. 1891) were: (1) Sayedna Rehmat Malak Saheb (2) Sayedna Mohammadali Saheb (3) Sayedna Hebat-e-llah Saheb and (4) Sayedna Adamji Tayebji Saheb.

In the Hijri year 1309 (A.D. 1891) a Saheb of the name Maulana Abdulhusain Jiwajee Saheb announced in Bombay that “Daur-ul-Satar” was coming to its close, and that the “Amar” had passed on to Him and He proclaimed Himself Hujjat-e-Qayem and took the appellation of Maulana Malak Saheb. The Hujjat-e-Qayem is the one in the spiritual hierarchy who precedes the Qayem and works for announcing the advent of the Qayem. Maulana Malak Saheb announced that his period as Hujjat-e-Qayem would be of 10 years duration and called it the Akher-uz-Zaman (i.e. the last of the Daur-us-Satar) after which the Qayem would manifest Himself, and the said Qayem would be the Qayem-ala-Zikre-His-Salam according to the religious texts of the Dawoodi Bohra. He caused his period to commence and started Abedi San (year).

Maulana Malak Saheb passed away at Kuhari (Korhadi) a village near Nagpur, on 26th September 1899 (22nd Jamadil-Ula of the Abedi 9th year). He was ill for some time, and when His illness took a more serious turn, Maulana Malak Saheb directed the Kothari Saheb Sheikh Hasanali Ebrahimji Saheb on 24th September, 1899 (the 20th of Jamadil-Ula of the Abedi 9th year) to make preparation for his journey to Kuhari. A short distance from Kuhari He caused His carriage to stop and when all his followers had gathered around him he declared “Sheikh Abdulkader Ebrahimji, Kheti officer is the Vakil of My Mal and Milkat”. Maulana Malak Saheb thus nominated Maulana Abdulkar Ebrahimji Chimthanawala Saheb as his spiritual successor in accordance with and in fulfillment of his desire to appoint the Vakil to carry on the “Amar” after Him as expressed by Him in the discourse delivered earlier and referred to aforesaid. The words: “Mal and Milkar” referred to the spiritual heritage of Maulana Malak Saheb. Maulana Malak Saheb passed away on the second day following the aforesaid declaration.

Our further lineage is:
Maulana Abdeali Ebrahimji Saheb
Maulana Razak Saheb
Maulana Imdadali Saheb
our present Vali-us-Zaman Saheb is Maulana Tayeb Saheb

bohraji
Posts: 245
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#18

Unread post by bohraji » Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:52 am

Welcome Mr. Topiwala,
As being educated in a convent ,I had been interested in comparative religion at quite an early age.And then discussions about the different bohra sects at home aroused my further interest in our own faith and its branches.
I have been trying to know through the net and this forum but was not able to get much info on the artalis walas or the sulaimanis.
pasted below is the link to a similar thread.
http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/cgi-bin/U ... 1;t=001910

Could you please let us know more of the customs and the prayer methods of your community and whether the members are orthodox or progressives.
Your response will be much appreciated

yusuftopiwala
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#19

Unread post by yusuftopiwala » Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:45 pm

Atba-e-Malak Vakil and artalis walas are the same. But I do not have much information about the sulaimanis.

We beleive in all the 7 tenants of Islam as per Dawoodi Bohra Faith in Batin.

If you need detailed understanding of our Faith, please tell me I will be more then happy to provide you the same.

Sajid Zafar
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#20

Unread post by Sajid Zafar » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:50 pm

Welcome on Board Bhai Yousuf Topiwala. I am glad that members of this forum are from different sects of Dawoodi Bohra and Islam and educate people about their Tariqa and beliefs.

We will appreciate if you let us know the following:

• Where is the concentration of Attaba-e-Malik jamaat?
• What is the approximate population of your jamaat?
• Do you guys celebrate urs of past dais and duwats?
• Do you guys perform poorjoosh matam?
• How your top hierarchy collects religious taxes? Is it done in a transparent manner or it is a hotchpotch close door system like ortho dawoodis without any accountability.
• Any other information which you would like share with members across this board about your community?

Please note that you may be criticized from people like MF, etc. But just ignore these jerks as these bigots see the world through their flawed prism only.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#21

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:56 pm

during this entire discussion/debate, pls keep in mind that the present followers of taher saifuddin and his son are no longer technically bohras. they are TAHERIS.

so when you highlight the various differences, pls remember to use the correct nomenclature to define each sect.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#22

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:43 pm

Atba-e-Malak Vakil and artalis walas are the same. But I do not have much information about the sulaimanis.

We beleive in all the 7 tenants of Islam as per Dawoodi Bohra Faith in Batin.
Br. Yusuf

I was not going to post anything but Br. Sajid inspired me.

Br. Porus on this board has superior knowledge of BATIN and TAWIL. If you need version 2 of Batil please podt here.

BTW do you have your version of Qur'an interpretation?

Wasalaam brothjer.

Br. Sajid

AS

Thank you
.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#23

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:53 pm

Br. Sajid

AS

You forgot to ask most important question:

* do you believe in Allah and his Rasool?

* do you pray Salt (Namaaz)?

Also I found this on Ismaili.net

From: http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... pic&t=1772

I can't imagine how difficult will they (twelvers) find to accept the truth when Mowla decides to declare his Imamat or divinity to the world. Perhaps they will justify him as their Imam in occultation (Mahedi, their 12th Imam) manifesting himself while Christians might look at him as Jesus coming back as their savior and Hindus as Kalki avtar. I am sure Mowla will make it look like a win win situation for all the world religions.
Since Hazir Imam is so important for Ismailis, all of you should accept Aga Khan.

Wasalaam
.

saif
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#24

Unread post by saif » Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:01 pm

"Vive la differeance!!!"

A little boy, Quaid Johar, was walking down a dirt road after visiting his mosque one Friday afternoon when he came to a cross-road where he met a little girl, Sara, coming from the other direction.

‘Hello,’ said Quaid Johar
‘Hi,’ replied Sara.

‘Where are you going?' asked Quaid Johar.

‘I’ve been to the mosque this afternoon and I'm on my way home,' answered Sara.

‘I’m also on my way home from my mosque.

Which mosque do you go to?' asked Quaid Johar.

‘I go to the Progressive’s mosque back down the road,' replied Sara.

'What about you? '

'I go to the Kothari mosque back at the top of the hill,' replied Quaid Johar.

They discover that they are both going the same way, so they decided that they'd walk together.

They came to a low spot in the road where spring rains had partially flooded the road, so there was no way that they could get across to the
Other side without getting wet.

'If I get my dress wet, my Mom's going to skin me alive,' said Sara.

‘My Mom will tan my hide, too, if I get my clothes wet,' replied Quaid Johar.

‘I tell you what I think I'll do,' said Sara. 'I'm gonna pull off all my clothes and hold them over my head and wade across.'

‘That’s a good idea,’ replied Quaid Johar.
'I’m going to do the same thing with my clothes.'

So they both undressed completely and waded across to the other side without getting their clothes wet. They were standing there in the sun waiting to drip dry before putting their clothes back on, when Quaid Johar finally remarked.

‘You know, I never realized before just how much difference there really is between a Kothari and a Progressive.!

yusuftopiwala
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#25

Unread post by yusuftopiwala » Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:50 am

Bhai Sajid,

Please find answers to your queries.

• Where is the concentration of Attaba-e-Malik jamaat?
Nagpur
• What is the approximate population of your jamaat?
200
• Do you guys celebrate urs of past dais and duwats?
No
• Do you guys perform poorjoosh matam?
No
• How your top hierarchy collects religious taxes? Is it done in a transparent manner or it is a hotchpotch close door system like ortho dawoodis without any accountability.
No, we do not have any religious taxes. Ours is a registered religious trust.
• Any other information which you would like share with members across this board about your community?
We believe in Quran, Millat-e-Ebrahimi and Aal-e-Ebrahimi. Millat-e-Ebrahimi means Maulana Musa (A.S.) Saheb, Maulana Iesa (A.S.) Saheb, Maulana Mohammed (A.S.) Saheb and Maulana Quaem (A.S.) Saheb.

Bhai MF,

Please find answers to your queries.

• do you believe in Allah and his Rasool?
Yes
• do you pray Salt (Namaaz)?
Yes

If there are any more questions, please feel free to ask.

Thanks

Sajid Zafar
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#26

Unread post by Sajid Zafar » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:42 pm

Bhai Yousuf:

Thanks for your responses, (however, I found these answers very brief).

When I asked about taxes I was referring to fitra, zakat etc. One more thing about the population, is it 200 or just a typo error, please clarify. Do you guys have any website?

Br. MF:

I appologize if heart your feelings. Regarding Namaz, Yousuf wrote very clearly in his post that they follow all seven pillars.

I strongly feel that one should not indulge in the believes of other religions/sects. Nobody is going to win the hearts and minds of the followers of others religion/sects by saying that the are wrong and we are right and after all who has given us this right. See the example of Holy Prophet (piece be upon him) what happened to him during his travel to Taef. He always used to present Islam without offending others. May allah give all of us Taufeeq and hedayat. Ameen.

bohraji
Posts: 245
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#27

Unread post by bohraji » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:41 am

Dear Yusuf Bhai,
Thankyou for the response.When you said 200.did you meann 200 families or just 200 members?
How come the jamat is so small,or is it the population of just a single town.
I wish my late father was alive as then I could have shared some info with him.We had been fed with stories that the artalis walas do not pray namaz and feel that the age of Quran is no more so they do not read it as worship but just as a book.
This was probably due to his few friends from Shajapur where some dawoodis turned to artalis maybe a generation back.we were told of such unislamic practices that they do not offer ghusl to the dead before burial and such.
Mr. Topiwala,please shed more light .
Thanks
bohraji

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#28

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:19 am

Brother Bohraji,

Brother Amerege has replied you in details on this matter on 17th of May 2007. Artalees wala, atba' malik and mehdi baughwala are the same group which split into badri and Vakili sects. You may refer to Yoginder Sikand detail article on this matter.

Thanks

yusuftopiwala
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#29

Unread post by yusuftopiwala » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:40 am

Bhai Sajid,

1. We do not pay any Fitra, Zakat etc.
2. Population of our Jamat is 200 member, there is no typo error.
3. Zakat – On the strength of Namaz, momin Acquires or Obtains or Blessed with religious strength to offer other his religious knowledge. Moreover if you go through and understand Quran, you will find that Zakat is related to Namaz and not money. At the same time if you do not offer Zakat, your Namaz is useless.

Please refer Sayedi Sadiqali Saheb’s Nashit 22 Para 6 Jild 2

Namaz ne Zakat bewe milli aa alam ma ibteda thi
Je koi bhi ema kare judai, judo che thekik vo Khuda thi
Zakat vin che Namaz jem mindu likhe tu vin ekada thi
Namaz na jisam na che andar Zakat no jiv ta sada thi

Zakat sathe Namaz ne jo Khuda e Quran ma milavi
Paraniya na bager kaya na koi dekh vama avi

This is our understanding of Zakat.

4. I want to reinstate that we Pray Namaz and have full faith in Quran.
5. It is totally false propaganda against us that we do not offer ghusl to the dead before burial.

With warm Regards

Sajid Zafar
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:01 am

Re: Difference between various Bohra Sub-sects

#30

Unread post by Sajid Zafar » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:01 pm

Thanks for your input Yousuf.