Tired

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Humsafar
Posts: 2484
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Tired

#61

Unread post by Humsafar » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:10 pm

Humanbeing, my friend you misunderstand. I've no problem if you remain inside so long as you are actively orgainsing opposition to the system. Your lone-ranger act of bravado may give you personal satisfaction of not "bending to the kothar" but it will not change anything in a 100 years. Try to understand my point, inside or inside is not the issue. Wherever we choose to be we have to organise to actively subvert the system. Unless masses of people rise nothing will change, and the masses of people won't rise without preparation, without grassroots work. That work should be done by people like you and me.

You can mock reformists (and their lack of achievements) all you want but at least we can never be blamed for not trying. Kothar is a many-headed, many-armed beast who with its vast resources has manipulated and outsmarted the community including reformists. We did everything we could at our disposal given our meagre resources, and our failure is the failure of all of us, of the whole community. We were fighting on behalf of the whole community but the community slumbered all through. It is quite rich of people who sit on their hands to blame us for not being able to "restrict Kothar's oppression". (I'm sure you are aware of the USA and Cuba geopolitical dynamics. Reformists have been Cuba to Kothar's USA. You can draw your own conclusions.) In any case, over to you, with your new ideas and strategies to take up the fight. I truly hope that the likes of you succeed where reformists failed. Good luck.



SBM
Posts: 6142
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Tired

#62

Unread post by SBM » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:17 pm

So, you must have stopped paying taxes to US government, they are causing world wide havoc and wars destroying innocent families moreover innocent muslim families
Wow- Comparing Apples to Oranges
My tax dollars also help US troops to save Muslim from Bosnian Massacare, it also helped topple Saddam Hussain. My tax dollars also helped victims of Earth Quake, Hurricanes and other disasters and many of them in Muslim Countries,
CAN YOU SAY THE SAME FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS TO KOTHARI MAFIA..



humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Tired

#63

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:47 am

Humsafar wrote: Your lone-ranger act of bravado may give you personal satisfaction of not "bending to the kothar" but it will not change anything in a 100 years.
Bro Humsafar

In fact my opinion resonate with reformist’s complains, reformist struggle has not been successful due to lack of will of abdes to reform and why is that, because they don’t feel oppressed, they enjoy bowing, bending and being subjugated. How do you wake these people?? They don’t wanna be shaken.

Kothar has evolved since those days of organized rebellion. Kothar provides sheer entertainment wrapped in spirituality and this is what abde wants and kothar delivers.

Not every abde out there thinks like Udaipur reformist, abdes live in different geographical setting and have different mindsets. Lone rangers are out there in quite a good number, but disconnected and cautious.

Kothar is not as big as of a monster compared to inflation in economy, corruption in government, polarized community and generic fear of safety socially at nation level.

I do not term previous glories of reformist as failures. It started and it stopped in an environment it could succeed. Kothar flourished beyond that challenge because religion is deep rooted requirement of people. Kothar controlled the inherited succession authority of Imam, which reformist too is dependent on. You save thousands of abdes from one idol and they will make another one to get oppressed under.


Nothing is going to stay for 100 years the same, world is moving on regardless of opressors and oppressed. At local level there are people raising their voices to the extent they get their work done limited to their knowledge and conscience. Not everyone out there wants to become a bohra pandit in Fatimid theology and raise their voice against kothar’s corruption of Fatimid teachings.

Number of abdes are sufficiently high to sponsor kothar’s spendings, moreover in bigger mess little good is also happening, that cannot be discredited. For example, I have seen many abdes getting qardan hasanah for starting business and they flourished, many got housing loans and they could afford decent housing, muwasat rakam for medical treatment, food supplies and employment opportunities. Either one can appreciate these activities as well or criticize over some grounds or another. I agree these are chump change thrown at abdes to hoodwink as compared to bigger loot.

Like it or not, this whole world is working like that, if not at least south-asian sub continent unless you feel your western democracies are spotless !



humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Tired

#64

Unread post by humanbeing » Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:53 am

SBM wrote: Wow- Comparing Apples to Oranges
My tax dollars also help US troops to save Muslim from Bosnian Massacare, it also helped topple Saddam Hussain. My tax dollars also helped victims of Earth Quake, Hurricanes and other disasters and many of them in Muslim Countries,
CAN YOU SAY THE SAME FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS TO KOTHARI MAFIA..
Bro SBM,
Com’on ! in that same light, my wajebaat, sabeel and voluntarily paid donations to kothar has helped many needy bohras in buying a house, starting a business, food supplies, medical treatment, ziyarat of ahlye-bayt and duaats, scholarships, feeding the sparrows, planting trees, donating blankets, cleaning the streets, fostership, renovation programs, helping flood victims, hurricanes, earth quakes etc.



zinger
Posts: 1864
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Tired

#65

Unread post by zinger » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:20 am

Biradar wrote:
zinger wrote:

Birader, your comments are most uncalled for.

And dont get me wrong, but of late, you have begun to sound like a zealot, like the very same ones you keep taunting (adam, progticide, Anajmi even). You used to be a very level-headed person, but you have started to behave like, as Al Z so eloquently puts it, "a foaming-at-the-mouth abde"

i wouldn't have gotten into this conversation but the last line you wrote prompted me to do so.
:shock:

My my, it seems all the itty bitty, weak spine zombies are out and about. Seems like a scene from "Day of the Dead". Best if you stay out of a conversation of elders. When you grow up a little, come talk with me. Meanwhile, don't get upset and don't throw a tantrum.
Very immature my good friend, very immature