Marrying outside bohras...

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alif1610
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:40 pm

Marrying outside bohras...

#1

Unread post by alif1610 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:38 pm

Assalamualaikum...

It has been many years since my thoughts changed about bohras and what we are into...
Also it has been 9 years since i know a guy and we want to get married now....he is sunni muslim...
His family loves me a lot and has accepted me as a daughter....
He also came to meet my family...everyone liked him....
But later all disgreed and turned against me...they want me to break this relation ONLY because they fear they will be boycotted from the bohra society and the well known "log kya kahenge" notion...

I personally want to follow islam and i have not been a practicing bohra at any time..and so i won't be able to adjust in a bohra family...
Its been so long and i cannot break this relation for such a reason...
Please help....
How far is the boycotting thing true??
There must be some way out...because i am not willing to give up on this just for the sake of people who dont even know my name (the society)...

Please share your views with some practical solutions....

Jazak Allah khair...



I Rizwan
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:33 am

#2

Unread post by I Rizwan » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:23 am

only you will be boycotted not your family , you can live happily with muawiyah loving family. (yes sunnis have great love for muawiyah, shia and lovers of Ali(A) should think about this).

I dont keep any sunni friends any more for the same reasons, cant stand love for muawiyah for a second.

any ways as far as your family is concern they wont face any problem as far as they dont keep any relation with you.



humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

#3

Unread post by humanbeing » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:04 am

alif1610 wrote:How far is the boycotting thing true??
There must be some way out...because i am not willing to give up on this just for the sake of people who dont even know my name (the society)......
Alif1610

Your dilemma is not new in this mindlessly intolerant sheepish blind community, who are ready to trample anyone’s happiness for no logical reasoning other than disturbing their deluded mental state of slavery and defiance towards their insecure arrogant masters.


Consider yourself lucky and saved that in spite of being born and raised in this slave community, you were able to safeguard your intelligence and free thinking spirit to keep love away and above hatred.


I am not genius or counseling expert in relationship matters, but sharing my thoughts if that can help. Do what you feel is correct, only and only you feel is correct. Never ever get carried away by talks in the society.


Society and its members will apply every trick in the mind control technique to influence your decision in their favor. First of all, guard yourself from lot of people talking to you. Many will come and talk to you some will be wolves in sheep’s clothing, deceptive sugar coated talkers, they will manipulate you one step at a time.


Do not let anyone talk on your behalf, maintain as much silence as possible. More you speak to defend your choices, more passionate conversations can become and in fit of anger and frustration you may end up saying something you do not intend that will be held against you.


Fighting your family members, social circle is one thing and fighting jamaat is another. Jamat members are organized and trained to subjugate any free-will. You need to guard yourself against these guys be it mullah, sheikh, amils, shehzada etc. Any such free-will shatters their ego and comfort. It is also an opportunity for them to restore control and make a lesson out of your case for others and re-establish, re-affirm their monstrous grip over the faithful followers. It is fun-time for them to test their skills, ability, training in mind control.


Before you let the cat out of the bag, convince yourself completely that life partner you have chosen for yourself will support you in all walks of life. Get your priorities communicated to him clearly, preferably in writing.. this is a funny advise, life cannot be these standardized. But there are some values and principles we hold all our lives be it religious, social, professional. Always maintain your financial independence.


Never be scared to fail, no one ever has lived a life of pure success and glory. Do not allow others to put yourself under a magnifying glass, do not given reigns of your life and choices in other’s hands. Distance those who make your life toxic be it even family members. Those who love and care will stand by you sooner or later in stress or success. Time heals.

Boycotting is true at very subtle level. If you have survived all sort of resistance from jamat or general society, this pansy community will apply invisible boycotting techniques by gossip, non-cooperation, silly and petty hurdles, taunts, public humiliations, denial to access to their services etc. First they will apply these on you and if it does not work then your family members. It is not really hard and consuming for them to spread hatred. Infact it is fun, it is entertaining so they will increase the intensity until their egos are settled.


Create a support system of tolerant, vibrant friends and family, make yourself composed, self-confident, self reliant in matters of faith. Handle your life troubles of more serious nature. Spend your energies making yourself financially self-reliant and rich. Rich people can get away with anything, people don’t bother with rich people’s lives.


If you do not wish to pander to this society’s whim and fancy, if you can let go seemingly comforting sense of spirituality, piety and affiliation, if you can let go dargah resorts, faakera jamans, colorful representation of one self in white SKT or flowered ridaas. Then make your way out of this closed community to liberate yourself to a world of humanity in a subtle manner. Fade into oblivion from their books by not attending their circus, not using their facilities and services, fade out your payments and get far away as much as possible physically, mentally, socially, professionally slowly and steadily.



alif1610
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:40 pm

#4

Unread post by alif1610 » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:36 am

humanbeing wrote:
alif1610 wrote:How far is the boycotting thing true??
There must be some way out...because i am not willing to give up on this just for the sake of people who dont even know my name (the society)......
Alif1610

Your dilemma is not new in this mindlessly intolerant sheepish blind community, who are ready to trample anyone’s happiness for no logical reasoning other than disturbing their deluded mental state of slavery and defiance towards their insecure arrogant masters.


Consider yourself lucky and saved that in spite of being born and raised in this slave community, you were able to safeguard your intelligence and free thinking spirit to keep love away and above hatred.


I am not genius or counseling expert in relationship matters, but sharing my thoughts if that can help. Do what you feel is correct, only and only you feel is correct. Never ever get carried away by talks in the society.


Society and its members will apply every trick in the mind control technique to influence your decision in their favor. First of all, guard yourself from lot of people talking to you. Many will come and talk to you some will be wolves in sheep’s clothing, deceptive sugar coated talkers, they will manipulate you one step at a time.


Do not let anyone talk on your behalf, maintain as much silence as possible. More you speak to defend your choices, more passionate conversations can become and in fit of anger and frustration you may end up saying something you do not intend that will be held against you.


Fighting your family members, social circle is one thing and fighting jamaat is another. Jamat members are organized and trained to subjugate any free-will. You need to guard yourself against these guys be it mullah, sheikh, amils, shehzada etc. Any such free-will shatters their ego and comfort. It is also an opportunity for them to restore control and make a lesson out of your case for others and re-establish, re-affirm their monstrous grip over the faithful followers. It is fun-time for them to test their skills, ability, training in mind control.


Before you let the cat out of the bag, convince yourself completely that life partner you have chosen for yourself will support you in all walks of life. Get your priorities communicated to him clearly, preferably in writing.. this is a funny advise, life cannot be these standardized. But there are some values and principles we hold all our lives be it religious, social, professional. Always maintain your financial independence.


Never be scared to fail, no one ever has lived a life of pure success and glory. Do not allow others to put yourself under a magnifying glass, do not given reigns of your life and choices in other’s hands. Distance those who make your life toxic be it even family members. Those who love and care will stand by you sooner or later in stress or success. Time heals.

Boycotting is true at very subtle level. If you have survived all sort of resistance from jamat or general society, this pansy community will apply invisible boycotting techniques by gossip, non-cooperation, silly and petty hurdles, taunts, public humiliations, denial to access to their services etc. First they will apply these on you and if it does not work then your family members. It is not really hard and consuming for them to spread hatred. Infact it is fun, it is entertaining so they will increase the intensity until their egos are settled.


Create a support system of tolerant, vibrant friends and family, make yourself composed, self-confident, self reliant in matters of faith. Handle your life troubles of more serious nature. Spend your energies making yourself financially self-reliant and rich. Rich people can get away with anything, people don’t bother with rich people’s lives.


If you do not wish to pander to this society’s whim and fancy, if you can let go seemingly comforting sense of spirituality, piety and affiliation, if you can let go dargah resorts, faakera jamans, colorful representation of one self in white SKT or flowered ridaas. Then make your way out of this closed community to liberate yourself to a world of humanity in a subtle manner. Fade into oblivion from their books by not attending their circus, not using their facilities and services, fade out your payments and get far away as much as possible physically, mentally, socially, professionally slowly and steadily.
JazakAllah khair..
I am firm on my decision..
I love them and I know they brought me up..
But they are rejecting this only because of wht society will say...
It's so hurtful to know how they make such important decisions of life..
I have been given two options..
Either stay in this house and forget about this...
Or leave the house and marry who you want..
My mother was manipulated by other members...
Which left me in shock and disheartened ....
Only if they knew that Allah made marriage easy they would have not created so much mess..
The person I choose is good in religion and good in character...
All other secondary conditions also satisfy which are like a bonus..( wealth, looks, family..)
And I don't think Islam ever had a condition to marry a bohri....Right?
My family wants to leave me...I know they will understand with time when they see me happy...
Do make dua...This time is too difficult...
Each day they try to bring me down emotionally and each day I try to be stronger in my decision..
May Allah bless all and forgive our sins...



SBM
Posts: 6170
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#5

Unread post by SBM » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:19 am

Sister Alif
If this person will make you happy and will take care of you, go ahead and marry him according to Islamic principles.
I know in many families, this has happened and initially parents boycotted the children but over years, they came around.
Only advice, do not leave or boycott your parents, if they donot invite you and your husband at their home, donot despair, invite them to your house, continue meeting them in neutral places like park or on vacation. Make sure your husband and his family respects their wishes and continue the bond.
Yes your parents may be torn between the Society and their Child and sometimes the pressure of Society overwhelms them and the reason they are reacting is because of temporary apprehension and over period of time it will be gone.
On the other side, if you marry some one in the Bohra due to pressure, you will be miserable all your life and you will blame your parents and they will be tortured not seeing you happy but will never express the regrets. I am sure they want nothing but your happiness but are confused and not strong enough to stand up to Society.
Go ahead and make your life, your parents and siblings will come around with loving relationship.



LFT
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:55 am

#6

Unread post by LFT » Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:31 am

Follow your heart and do it. I have done it. Both families (including extended family) had issues and now both are perfectly fine with us and our children. They dont socialise with each other but will definitely be nice to each other when the families meet. Allah has been kind to us. But, as Brother SBM said you do need to persevere and deal with initial crap as that will be there.

Hope that helps..



alif1610
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:40 pm

#7

Unread post by alif1610 » Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:58 am

Yes brothers...
I think I really needed to hear this...
Keeps me strong...
And regarding their family...
I am very close to them...Although we don't live in the same cities...But the bond has become stronger specially after all this started taking place...
And they are very caring about my family and patient towards them....
They always advice me to be kind to them no matter what...And they did everything they could to make my family understand...
And my family has not been a very practicing bohra themselves....They hardly get involved...But just for the sake of society they want me to be in this community....



bohra_manus
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:37 pm

#8

Unread post by bohra_manus » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:50 pm

alif1610 wrote:Yes brothers...
I think I really needed to hear this...
Keeps me strong...
And regarding their family...
I am very close to them...Although we don't live in the same cities...But the bond has become stronger specially after all this started taking place...
And they are very caring about my family and patient towards them....
They always advice me to be kind to them no matter what...And they did everything they could to make my family understand...
And my family has not been a very practicing bohra themselves....They hardly get involved...But just for the sake of society they want me to be in this community....
In my very orthodox family two girls married outside Bohra, no issues. Our family was upset for a couple years. Everything is normal now. The girls visit their parents freely. So go ahead sister and do what makes you happy, free yourself from the shackles of Bohraism. All the best to you.



alif1610
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:40 pm

#9

Unread post by alif1610 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:25 am

Please tell me what would be the right way...
I don't want to hurt anyone..
I don't want them to face anything in the society because of me...
But they r not willing to change their decision...
How should I take this matter ahead..
All of you who have done this..What did you do?
Did you just move out ?
How did the nikah take place? Is it acceptable to do it without consent for the right cause..



kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

#10

Unread post by kimanumanu » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:08 am

Personally, the first thing you need to decide for yourself is are you going to follow Islamic shariyat? If the answer is yes, then am sure the way will be visible. Have you tried to speak to anyone with such knowledge - I would have said speak to an amil but given the current circumstances in our community I am hesitant. The alternative is to contact someone from Fatemi Dawat side and just have a chat to understand fully what your options are. I am assuming that you will be living with your future husband regardless - is that with his family? Will it be in the same town/locality? I think one thing is guaranteed that there will be lots of emotions and heartbreak and all that. So you will need to remain strong and rely on your other half's support. Time does heal eventually but be prepared for a tough time initially.



SBM
Posts: 6170
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

#11

Unread post by SBM » Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:24 pm

Sister Alif
Without being specific, can you tell us where do your reside and where does your future husband reside as your mentioned that they do not live in the same city.
If that is the case, have your future in laws help you with Nikkah and other rituals You should be prepared to move out of your parents abode and take temporary shelter with your future in laws.
Get the Nikakh done ASAP and do invite your parents and extended family for a reception knowing well that they may not show up, but you would have done your duties and you will be at peace with yourself. Over the months and years they will come around as long as you keep your communication open to them thru some other members in your family. Usually Mothers are more sympathetic after the fact, once you have taken that bold step and initial fear of Society Scorn is washed away, they will get around. I know many families in India and abroad with similar situations and over years they are happy minding their own business.
Now stop asking too many advises and if you are serious, just take the plunge, Good Luck



alif1610
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:40 pm

#12

Unread post by alif1610 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:17 pm

kimanumanu wrote:Personally, the first thing you need to decide for yourself is are you going to follow Islamic shariyat? If the answer is yes, then am sure the way will be visible. Have you tried to speak to anyone with such knowledge - I would have said speak to an amil but given the current circumstances in our community I am hesitant. The alternative is to contact someone from Fatemi Dawat side and just have a chat to understand fully what your options are. I am assuming that you will be living with your future husband regardless - is that with his family? Will it be in the same town/locality? I think one thing is guaranteed that there will be lots of emotions and heartbreak and all that. So you will need to remain strong and rely on your other half's support. Time does heal eventually but be prepared for a tough time initially.
No, I dint talk to much people about it...
This is the only place where am sharing..
I have been on this forum since long, diff id..So find it the best place to get realistic solutions..
We wil live with his family...Which is not that big..Just parents...And in different cities...
And his family are already supporting me in all ways...They are also ready for this step..However it would have been better if there was consent from my family..But I don't see that happening..
So am ready for it now...



alif1610
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:40 pm

#13

Unread post by alif1610 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:29 pm

SBM wrote:Sister Alif
Without being specific, can you tell us where do your reside and where does your future husband reside as your mentioned that they do not live in the same city.
If that is the case, have your future in laws help you with Nikkah and other rituals You should be prepared to move out of your parents abode and take temporary shelter with your future in laws.
Get the Nikakh done ASAP and do invite your parents and extended family for a reception knowing well that they may not show up, but you would have done your duties and you will be at peace with yourself. Over the months and years they will come around as long as you keep your communication open to them thru some other members in your family. Usually Mothers are more sympathetic after the fact, once you have taken that bold step and initial fear of Society Scorn is washed away, they will get around. I know many families in India and abroad with similar situations and over years they are happy minding their own business.
Now stop asking too many advises and if you are serious, just take the plunge, Good Luck
Okay brother,
Regarding city I can PM, but not share here...
I would be moving out in a couple of months, and earlier, if my family tells so...
As they would want to do legal formalities...
Rest I am prepared for taking the step and serious about it...
I will update whatever happens...Do make dua...

JazakAllah khair...



humanbeing
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

#14

Unread post by humanbeing » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:06 am

Dear Alif1610

Wish you all the best in your decision.

I hope you dont buckle under pressure and give up on your decision. Regrets will make your life miserable ahead ... while others including your family members will simply move on in their life.

having selected your life partner of your choice against the consent of family and society in general will put you under scanner. Dont let that affect you. I have mostly seen couple who keep yearning for society's approval are vulnerable to break apart as they both are more focused on seeking external approval rather than focus on making their marriage work. Right now you and your prospective life partner both are clouded with this resistance from the society and may be may be not looking into differences you both may have in personalities, culture, society, family etc.

If you are Indian/ Pakistani ,, women have to embrace husband's way of life, culture, traditions, values etc. do explore these aspects of your prospective life partner side thoroughly and see how they fit with your value system and how you can adapt to it as well. You may have been observant of these in general but once you are married you will live amongst them.

Are you financially Independent ? Are you dependent on your parents for any aspect of life, majorly sustenance ? No matter how life turns out ! can you be on your own ?

In long run, love should conquer hatred ! parents are parents .. they will melt seeing you happy and also when they see society has moved on to trouble another soul ..

Dont be apologetic of your decision, dont bow your head in guilt or shame. If the pressure and brick-bats are too much then distance yourself from the family and society. remain in contact through phone or other media. Dont get into too much explanation, justification etc with your parents or relatives or society in general. Dont get into saviour mode for your parents if they are facing taunts / resistance from the society. You need to save yourself first. if you tangle yourself in convincing, justifying, saving your relationship and your parents you will be disillusioned. You may see ... you will get so involved in the mess so much that love of your life will not seem worth the trouble you are going through. The mess will appear monstrous !

Dont seek bohra religious justification for choosing your life partner, neither quote any bohra doctrine. I think there is none also ! Bohra doctrine is what current maula and his cronies think fit.

Catch one family member at a time .. sibling, father, mother .. whoever seems to be open with an idea, work through consent one at a time and create a majority in your favor subtly. Focus on your father if he is approachable ... because he is required for nikaah ceremony.



Newbee
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:40 am

#15

Unread post by Newbee » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:44 am

Dear Alif,

Having been through similar upheaval I do sympathise with your situation. Bhai Humanbeing provides good advice and he has effectively summarised my thoughts. Rest assured that you are and will not be the only one to face this predicament. There are few of us out there, LFT being one of them. Please do feel free to PM me if you so wish and I shall be happy to share my experience with you. It seems you are apprehensive about social boycott and being cut off from family. I could suggest getting a nikaah done as per bohra shariat, but the precursor would be that the groom would have to undergo misaaq which he may not be terribly happy with. Then there is all the red tape associated with that. It also depends on the amil and how easy he makes it or not and how much money you're willing to part with as well (sadly). Bohra nikaah would silence some of the nay sayers in our community because it will be perceived that at least you married "properly". Having said that, if bohra nikaah is not an option then I suppose you could just have a kazi nikaah performed but you will have to get your parents round to that idea and that could be problematic. At the end of the day, it is your happiness at stake and you should do what feels right for you. You'll get all sorts of advice here on the forum and that may cloud your judgement or clarify matters for you. I understand also how isolating and stressful it can be battling it out with parents over an issue like this. Be patient with them. They will come round hopefully. Time is a healer.



alif1610
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:40 pm

#16

Unread post by alif1610 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:01 am

humanbeing wrote:Dear Alif1610

Wish you all the best in your decision.

I hope you dont buckle under pressure and give up on your decision. Regrets will make your life miserable ahead ... while others including your family members will simply move on in their life.

having selected your life partner of your choice against the consent of family and society in general will put you under scanner. Dont let that affect you. I have mostly seen couple who keep yearning for society's approval are vulnerable to break apart as they both are more focused on seeking external approval rather than focus on making their marriage work. Right now you and your prospective life partner both are clouded with this resistance from the society and may be may be not looking into differences you both may have in personalities, culture, society, family etc.

If you are Indian/ Pakistani ,, women have to embrace husband's way of life, culture, traditions, values etc. do explore these aspects of your prospective life partner side thoroughly and see how they fit with your value system and how you can adapt to it as well. You may have been observant of these in general but once you are married you will live amongst them.

Are you financially Independent ? Are you dependent on your parents for any aspect of life, majorly sustenance ? No matter how life turns out ! can you be on your own ?

In long run, love should conquer hatred ! parents are parents .. they will melt seeing you happy and also when they see society has moved on to trouble another soul ..

Dont be apologetic of your decision, dont bow your head in guilt or shame. If the pressure and brick-bats are too much then distance yourself from the family and society. remain in contact through phone or other media. Dont get into too much explanation, justification etc with your parents or relatives or society in general. Dont get into saviour mode for your parents if they are facing taunts / resistance from the society. You need to save yourself first. if you tangle yourself in convincing, justifying, saving your relationship and your parents you will be disillusioned. You may see ... you will get so involved in the mess so much that love of your life will not seem worth the trouble you are going through. The mess will appear monstrous !

Dont seek bohra religious justification for choosing your life partner, neither quote any bohra doctrine. I think there is none also ! Bohra doctrine is what current maula and his cronies think fit.

Catch one family member at a time .. sibling, father, mother .. whoever seems to be open with an idea, work through consent one at a time and create a majority in your favor subtly. Focus on your father if he is approachable ... because he is required for nikaah ceremony.
It's been a month now since going through the pressure...
It's no less than a mental torture....But Allah has kept me firm on my decision...
I am not financially independent yet as my studies are still on and would be completed within 2 months...So I am already looking for a job..
Regarding my father...I can't because he left me long ago....(divorced).....
And my mom never had a problem with the one I chose...She was manipulated so much that now she thinks I am completely wrong and I am going to bring shame to my family...
I have tried convincing all in my family...And it was futile....They are on their decision and I am on mine...
That's all....



alif1610
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:40 pm

#17

Unread post by alif1610 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:11 am

Newbee wrote:Dear Alif,

Having been through similar upheaval I do sympathise with your situation. Bhai Humanbeing provides good advice and he has effectively summarised my thoughts. Rest assured that you are and will not be the only one to face this predicament. There are few of us out there, LFT being one of them. Please do feel free to PM me if you so wish and I shall be happy to share my experience with you. It seems you are apprehensive about social boycott and being cut off from family. I could suggest getting a nikaah done as per bohra shariat, but the precursor would be that the groom would have to undergo misaaq which he may not be terribly happy with. Then there is all the red tape associated with that. It also depends on the amil and how easy he makes it or not and how much money you're willing to part with as well (sadly). Bohra nikaah would silence some of the nay sayers in our community because it will be perceived that at least you married "properly". Having said that, if bohra nikaah is not an option then I suppose you could just have a kazi nikaah performed but you will have to get your parents round to that idea and that could be problematic. At the end of the day, it is your happiness at stake and you should do what feels right for you. You'll get all sorts of advice here on the forum and that may cloud your judgement or clarify matters for you. I understand also how isolating and stressful it can be battling it out with parents over an issue like this. Be patient with them. They will come round hopefully. Time is a healer.
Thank you for the kind words..
Am trying my best to be patient....Each day, Each member of my family has told me the worst they could....
All I did was be silent because I respect them...
The whole month has been very difficult, spending each day like this and they do treat me like a stranger in the house....
Yes, do share your experience...I don't know but I am not able to PM anyone on the forum, so you can try from your side if it works...
And yes, advice from this forum has really helped me and kept me strong, I would thank each member who shared their experience and have adviced me till now....It has only clarified things for me and I know the ones I don't have to listen to...
So noway I would get confused...
Nikah we are planning after my studies, and we will try again to convince my family together...
And on the other hand evn my family is planning to remove me from the house..So waiting for some time to pass and how things go...