Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

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SBM
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#31

Unread post by SBM » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:10 pm

I wonder where the fathers were, or if they even knew what was going on?
Biradar
It is not true that Fathers are not aware of this barbaric practice. Unfortunately just like giving big money to Kothari Goons, they kept quiet to have peace at home. Unfortunately Bohra Community has Cowardly Male following and because of that Kothari Goons have learned to control FEMALE followers and thru them they control Male Followers.
I hope one or two fathers get convicted so that can send the chill thru their spines. I always said that Muslim community in general does not fear Wrath of Allaha but they sure feel the wrath of FBI.



abde53
Posts: 291
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#32

Unread post by abde53 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:40 pm

SBM and Biradar Bhai
You posted about FBI looking for more people who performed or are victims. Can FBI look into our ITS systems and get all the information
as our ITS and E Jamaat cards have all the information about our family, our children, our profession. Can they get all the information and go after parents who may allowed this procedure. I am now afraid of my E Jamaat information which was collected by our Aamils



ajamali
Posts: 239
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#33

Unread post by ajamali » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:22 pm

abde53 wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:40 pm
SBM and Biradar Bhai
You posted about FBI looking for more people who performed or are victims. Can FBI look into our ITS systems and get all the information
as our ITS and E Jamaat cards have all the information about our family, our children, our profession. Can they get all the information and go after parents who may allowed this procedure. I am now afraid of my E Jamaat information which was collected by our Aamils
If you have done no wrong, you have nothing to fear. It is still the rule of law in the United States.



SBM
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#34

Unread post by SBM » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:30 pm

Doctor charged with child genital mutilation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyQgUv9eptk

Her husband's name is Moiz Yusufbhai Nagarwala and they had done Ziyafat of SMB at their house




SBM
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#36

Unread post by SBM » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:47 am

Anyone from Detroit can please post how the family is being treated by local Aamil and Kothari Mafia? Have they provided any moral help at
all or they have abandoned the family. Nagarwala family has given ton load of money to Kothari Mafia.



ajamali
Posts: 239
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#37

Unread post by ajamali » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:19 am

The girls in MN have been taken away from their families. Mufaddal Saifuddin's followers are paying a high price for his insistence that "this act" (female circumcision) MUST BE performed and that he is not afraid of the governments of the West!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... d7c40c2696



SBM
Posts: 6142
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#38

Unread post by SBM » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:27 am

ajamali wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:19 am
The girls in MN have been taken away from their families. Mufaddal Saifuddin's followers are paying a high price for his insistence that "this act" (female circumcision) MUST BE performed and that he is not afraid of the governments of the West!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... d7c40c2696
Sad, Hope they donot put children with Christian Foster Families.
May be Fatemi Dawat to take charge and find Foster Families for these kids and many more who may be taken away from their families..



ajamali
Posts: 239
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#39

Unread post by ajamali » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:09 pm

SBM wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:27 am
ajamali wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:19 am
The girls in MN have been taken away from their families. Mufaddal Saifuddin's followers are paying a high price for his insistence that "this act" (female circumcision) MUST BE performed and that he is not afraid of the governments of the West!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... d7c40c2696
Sad, Hope they donot put children with Christian Foster Families.
May be Fatemi Dawat to take charge and find Foster Families for these kids and many more who may be taken away from their families..

Any involvement of Fatemi Dawat with these families will be fought viciously by the powers-that-be on the dark side. I am not sure if the parents have any say in the choice of foster parents but if that is true, it would be a non-starter of an idea. I doubt that Fatemi Dawat has any motivation to get involved in this as they have taken the correct stance and Fatemi Dawat families and girls are protected. It is becoming evident with every passing day where haqq lies.

MS followers will pay a price for keeping their eyes and ears shut to arguments of reason and rehmat.



SBM
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#40

Unread post by SBM » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:37 pm

As far as Foster Family, DOJ would always prefer to have Muslim Families become Foster Parents ( Foster Families get paid for taking care of the children) since there is lack of Muslim Families becoming Foster Parents, Catholic Charities take control of it.
Members of Fatemi Dawat are highly educated and based in USA and they have some connection with Academic Institution and thru them they can meet with DOJ and start Foster Parenting.
Who cares what SMS thinks, STF and his followers by reaching out to parents in USA will be providing a positive service and may help attract better educated followers to them
Just read Dr Mohammed Arsiwala, one of the follower of SMS in Detroit decided to leave Bohra Fold after he warned Dr Nagarwala not to do these proceducers (in Forbes article)
Conclusion: Do the right thing because it matters no because what others may think.



SBM
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#41

Unread post by SBM » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:40 pm

I doubt that Fatemi Dawat has any motivation to get involved in this as they have taken the correct stance and Fatemi Dawat families and girls are protected. It is becoming evident with every passing day where haqq lies.
Br Ajamail
You contradict yourself in this, If you thing Haqq lies with Fatemi Dawat then why are they so selfish as you stated in your opening sentence.
You can not be on HAQQ if you act for your own interest instead of community's welfare



ajamali
Posts: 239
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#42

Unread post by ajamali » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:04 pm

SBM wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:40 pm
I doubt that Fatemi Dawat has any motivation to get involved in this as they have taken the correct stance and Fatemi Dawat families and girls are protected. It is becoming evident with every passing day where haqq lies.
Br Ajamail
You contradict yourself in this, If you thing Haqq lies with Fatemi Dawat then why are they so selfish as you stated in your opening sentence.
You can not be on HAQQ if you act for your own interest instead of community's welfare
You don't understand. The families would prefer their children to be with a Christian family rather than Fatemi Dawat. You are a little removed from reality if you think that Fatemi Dawat involvement would get them anywhere. It is not selfishness but rather an acceptance of reality. I am not a spokesperson for Fatemi Dawat. I live among mufaddalies so I know their animosity towards Fatemi Dawat. I also find it interesting that people like you who do not support Fatemi Dawat in anyway are always willing to vokunteer Fatemi Dawat to heal MS's self inflicted wounds.



SBM
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#43

Unread post by SBM » Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:55 pm

I also find it interesting that people like you who do not support Fatemi Dawat in anyway are always willing to vokunteer Fatemi Dawat to heal MS's self inflicted wounds.
Because it was Fatemi Dawat people who shouted from top of their lungs that they are different but now it proves they are from the same fabric. I had initially supported them and waited to see which way they go, now finding out that they are also for themselves, may be little better.
Amazingly the supporters from both camps are very quite on this topic.



dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 417
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#44

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:23 pm

SBM wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:55 pm
I also find it interesting that people like you who do not support Fatemi Dawat in anyway are always willing to vokunteer Fatemi Dawat to heal MS's self inflicted wounds.
Because it was Fatemi Dawat people who shouted from top of their lungs that they are different but now it proves they are from the same fabric. I had initially supported them and waited to see which way they go, now finding out that they are also for themselves, may be little better.
Amazingly the supporters from both camps are very quite on this topic.
please explain. How does this prove that they are the same?



objectiveobserver53
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#45

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:39 pm

SBM wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:55 pm
I also find it interesting that people like you who do not support Fatemi Dawat in anyway are always willing to vokunteer Fatemi Dawat to heal MS's self inflicted wounds.
Because it was Fatemi Dawat people who shouted from top of their lungs that they are different but now it proves they are from the same fabric. I had initially supported them and waited to see which way they go, now finding out that they are also for themselves, may be little better.
Amazingly the supporters from both camps are very quite on this topic.
This is the most ludicrous thing I have heard. If someone needs the help of Fatemi Dawat, they know where to find them. Fatemi Dawat does not need to go around offering their help where it is not welcome.

Secondly it is laughable that you would paint the two factions as similar. Particularly on this topic. When STF was asked to make a statement by the ladies of the End FGM movement, he came out with a very clear stand against any procedures on minors, taking into consideration our texts and international laws. On the other hand, the MS position on this has been full of deception and contradiction with the jamaats issuing ban FGM letters and MS encouraging it from the takhat.



Crater Lake
Posts: 291
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#46

Unread post by Crater Lake » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:51 pm

SBM wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:55 pm
I also find it interesting that people like you who do not support Fatemi Dawat in anyway are always willing to vokunteer Fatemi Dawat to heal MS's self inflicted wounds.
Because it was Fatemi Dawat people who shouted from top of their lungs that they are different but now it proves they are from the same fabric. I had initially supported them and waited to see which way they go, now finding out that they are also for themselves, may be little better.
Amazingly the supporters from both camps are very quite on this topic.
I have no clue how this proves that Fatemi Dawat is anything like MS Dummies. If anything, it goes to prove how different we are. We are sympathetic to the families of the doctor and the victims and we pity those who follow an incompetent leader who has landed them in this mess. Our help is available to those who seek it but nothing compells us to go offer it where we may be seen as taking advantage of the situation. I am also not a spokesperson for Fatemi Dawat but this is my humble opinion as a follower.



dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 417
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#47

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:09 pm

Crater Lake wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:51 pm
SBM wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:55 pm

Because it was Fatemi Dawat people who shouted from top of their lungs that they are different but now it proves they are from the same fabric. I had initially supported them and waited to see which way they go, now finding out that they are also for themselves, may be little better.
Amazingly the supporters from both camps are very quite on this topic.
I have no clue how this proves that Fatemi Dawat is anything like MS Dummies. If anything, it goes to prove how different we are. We are sympathetic to the families of the doctor and the victims and we pity those who follow an incompetent leader who has landed them in this mess. Our help is available to those who seek it but nothing compells us to go offer it where we may be seen as taking advantage of the situation. I am also not a spokesperson for Fatemi Dawat but this is my humble opinion as a follower.
Agree with the replies of OO53 and CL. Particular the observation by CL that I have highlighted above.



dal-chaval-palidu
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#48

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:20 pm

I have a slightly different question related to this topic:

Around the world Bohra children of various age groups will/may hear this news in the coming days. How do we answer/explain this topic to our children in an appropriate way?

For kids 5-10 years old? For kids 10-15 years old, 15-20 year old?
Should we be proactive or wait until they come with questions?
Is there a different answer for girls compared to boys?

I would appreciate it if people can have an intelligent discussion and suggestions for this question. If we want to take this issue to "under FMG" topic, I am fine with that too. Any child counselor, doctor, psychologists - your contributions here may help Bohra parents answer their questions.



New
Posts: 440
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#49

Unread post by New » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:04 pm

Can some one post here Muffy's audio Vahez clip and news articles where he tells people they must do FGM on girls? That way authorities can be alerted.



Ozdundee
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#50

Unread post by Ozdundee » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:17 pm

Let it be clear this is regarded in civilised societies as a sex crime and child abuse.

These cases from Australia now USA have been going for 5 years. Bohras under estimated the resolve of the activists and authorities.

Now regarding children my view is honesty and clarity.

Start by saying that these practises are historical and flawed. They are wrong and we should not continue them. They are not fardh.

Children are not inclined to support but are indoctrinated by teachers in madrassa and sabaqs. Remove and scrub the scriptures of all FGM related instructions.

Islamic organisation and authorities if approached can assist and are ready to help Bohras to reinterprete traditions.

If there is genuine desire for help contact the admin , sugguma , SBM or myself and a solution can be found. Remember lets start by acknowledging we have a problem.dont stick your heads in the sand.

The world will not ignore this and watch crime and abuse go unnoticed while Sayednas play diplomacy , write letters and send media releases. There has to be genuine actions and walk the talk.

There is a big coalition of international police forces after fgm in Bohras , second after terrorism at the same level as child pornography and human trafficking.

dal-chaval-palidu wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:20 pm
I have a slightly different question related to this topic:

Around the world Bohra children of various age groups will/may hear this news in the coming days. How do we answer/explain this topic to our children in an appropriate way?

For kids 5-10 years old? For kids 10-15 years old, 15-20 year old?
Should we be proactive or wait until they come with questions?
Is there a different answer for girls compared to boys?

I would appreciate it if people can have an intelligent discussion and suggestions for this question. If we want to take this issue to "under FMG" topic, I am fine with that too. Any child counselor, doctor, psychologists - your contributions here may help Bohra parents answer their questions.



SBM
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017 (Bail Denied)

#51

Unread post by SBM » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:21 pm

Dawoodi Bohras are mentioned in this article

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/l ... 100563870/



SBM
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#52

Unread post by SBM » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:26 pm

From the article
Nagarwala is a member of the Dawoodi Bohra from India, a community that is based locally out of the Anjuman-e-Najmi mosque on Orchard Lake Road in Farmington Hills. It’s the only Dawoodi Bohras mosque in Michigan.
Her husband, Moiz Nagarwala, is listed as a leader of the mosque, according to the mosque’s password-protected website, and records list him as having served as joint treasurer.
The identification of Nagarwala’s cultural background pierces a veil of secrecy surrounding the case since prosecutors charged her Wednesday. The criminal complaint mentions Nagarwala belongs to a community that practices female genital mutilation, but did not identify the community.
There is a type of black market medical referral service within the community with members recommending where to find doctors and other people who can perform the procedure, said Isufali Kundawala, a Bohra and retired anesthesiologist near Dallas, Texas, who has spoken out against female genital mutilation.
Her husband, Moiz Nagarwala, is listed as a leader of the mosque, according to the mosque’s password-protected website, and records list him as having served as joint treasurer.
There goes their password protected website and all other secrecy
Tonite there is a big and compulsory meeting of all Shiat E Ali Members at Raudat Tahera Wonder, they are planning to save their own skin( :twisted: )
I wonder if Kothari Goons will advice Nagarwala's to do Maatam for 553 days in the Jail instead of helping them. :twisted: :twisted:



Ozdundee
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#53

Unread post by Ozdundee » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:40 pm

SBM bhai Dawaat will wiggle twirl and come up with a joint statement. They will even puppeteer SMS to make statement.

Look at how Muslim ummah are running far. SMB brainwashing of exclusivity backfires in times of crisis. Lets see if RSS and BJP come around.
“When I saw her picture, I knew immediately that she was a part of the Dawoodi Bohra community,” said Dawud Walid, executive director of the Michigan chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

The sect’s mosque in Farmington Hills was built in 1988 and is attended by about 125 families.
“It is a more-insular community,” Walid said. “They do not mingle and that mosque doesn’t really affiliate with any of the other mosques in Metro Detroit.”
He condemned the practice of female genital mutilation.
“In general, this is simply something that is not done and is found to be extremely repugnant,” Walid said. “Put it this way, this is something that is overwhelmingly not acceptable amongst the mainstream Muslim community in America.”



Biradar
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#54

Unread post by Biradar » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:32 pm

Kothar is likely in a very hard position. Last year, they sent letters to everyone not to do FGM, and obey the laws of the country. Of course, this was a nudge-nudge-wink-wink letter, just to make sure the Shehzada's and aamil's hides were safe. In person they have continued to encourage this practice. In fact, as we have seen, their leader, More-la Muffy has been ranting and raving about how "this act" must be done, but "for girls must be done in secret". At this point, they can't be seen supporting the Butcher as otherwise it will cause a huge firestorm, with the Bohras exposed for being backward barbarians.

Also, apparently, the Butcher was trying to leave the country and escape to Nairobi. She was arrested trying to leave the country. Hence, the judge today denied her request for bail as she is a flight risk.

At this point, the complete US Bohra community is suffering from great anxiety. There will be more victims who will come forward, and other such Butchers will be exposed. One hopes this will save several thousands of girls from being subject to this horror.

Also, I wonder where Saif and the pervert Adam have been hiding? Likely composing obscure and long blog posts on how wonderful FGM is, and how we should all give More-la Muffy not only our daughters to molest and maim, but also give him more of our money. Or perhaps they have escaped to some cave to hide from the harsh light of reality shining on their barbaric customs.



SBM
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#55

Unread post by SBM » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:04 pm

Biradar
As much as I am appalled by the action of Jumana Nagarwala ( I refuse to call her doctor now) but do you think she is the only to blame.
How about the parents who traveled from Minnesota as well the Religious leaders. I know this forum and specially all the topics related to FGM and Money Laundering are now being actively monitored by special branch of FBI. I hope now they go after each and every Aamil past and present in USA and bring them for questioning. They should also pay special attention to the wives of Aamil who are the biggest culprit in this scheme. It is these BENSAHEBAS who forced female followers to follow this unholy practice.
I am glad the main stream Muslims in USA have already distanced themselves from Dawoodi Bohras. Time is not far away when Dawoodi Bohras may also be qualified as Ahmaddiya Sect and declared Persona Non Grata among Muslim Ummah.



humanbeing
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#56

Unread post by humanbeing » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:06 am

Biradar wrote:Also, I wonder where Saif and the pervert Adam have been hiding? Likely composing obscure and long blog posts on how wonderful FGM is, and how we should all give More-la Muffy not only our daughters to molest and maim, but also give him more of our money. Or perhaps they have escaped to some cave to hide from the harsh light of reality shining on their barbaric customs.
They could be busy preparing another blog to post on this forum, give them time, they will soon come out with another gem !



Biradar
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Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#57

Unread post by Biradar » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:53 pm

SBM wrote:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:04 pm
Biradar
As much as I am appalled by the action of Jumana Nagarwala ( I refuse to call her doctor now) but do you think she is the only to blame.
Obviously, there is a bigger problem here. However, the law does not assign collective punishment to a group for simply holding a view. It is true the parents are to blame, however it is very likely they love their daughters and feel they are doing the correct thing within their religious framework. We can only punish actions and not words. However, we can criticize words, as we have been doing here.

Remember that in the US free-speech, however obnoxious, is strongly protected. Talking about FGM in abstract is fine, and perhaps advocating it (for example, by More-la Muffy or an aamil) may be illegal. I am not sure and one needs lawyers involved. My point is: we need to get to a point where the mad-mullahs rant and rave but people feel empowered and educated enough to do the right thing, or at least not physically harm their children or others. We also need to punish the providers of these "services" so that eventually this practice becomes extinct, even if it remains on the books.



clippedwings
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:33 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#58

Unread post by clippedwings » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:15 pm

Biradar wrote:
Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:53 pm
SBM wrote:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:04 pm
Biradar
As much as I am appalled by the action of Jumana Nagarwala ( I refuse to call her doctor now) but do you think she is the only to blame.
Obviously, there is a bigger problem here. However, the law does not assign collective punishment to a group for simply holding a view. It is true the parents are to blame, however it is very likely they love their daughters and feel they are doing the correct thing within their religious framework. We can only punish actions and not words. However, we can criticize words, as we have been doing here.

Remember that in the US free-speech, however obnoxious, is strongly protected. Talking about FGM in abstract is fine, and perhaps advocating it (for example, by More-la Muffy or an aamil) may be illegal. I am not sure and one needs lawyers involved. My point is: we need to get to a point where the mad-mullahs rant and rave but people feel empowered and educated enough to do the right thing, or at least not physically harm their children or others. We also need to punish the providers of these "services" so that eventually this practice becomes extinct, even if it remains on the books.
It is illegal in the US to encourage breaking a federal law or the constitution.

Although the 1st amendment protects your religious belief and allows free speech thereof BUT if a practise is banned and not allowed in the US as a matter of policy then it trumps first amendment rights of practise, quoting a source in the know.

BasicLly, muffie shot himself in the foot.



alam
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Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#59

Unread post by alam » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:20 pm

Dr. Jumana Nagarwala's indictment will be an example to all other Dr.s, midwives, nurses, etc, including the mothers who are accomplices in this FGM Khatna or khafd procedure. It should serve as a deterrent and warning to anyone else contemplating on performing this procedure, or worse still, taking (luring) their innocent daughters for this abuse, in the name of tradition, culture and religion.

However, this is part of the culthood of our system where blind followership, dismissal of common-sense and critical thinking has swept up in the Bohra community. The clergy can get off untarnished in its image, as long as the misguided "professionals and doctors" among this Bohra community have ceased to use their own judgement. I think more girls, mothers, women who have experienced this procedure in the USA should contact the FBI and tell them their story.

If you know of anyone performing this procedure, or know of anyone who has been subject to this procedure in the USA, the FBI can be informed anonymously as well. FBI 1-800-225-5324 or 1800-225-5984.



dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 417
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Dawoodi Bohra in media 2017

#60

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:56 am

As I read many of the articles, and especially the comments sections, I just want to make the following observation. Dawoodi Bohras rightly blame the extremist Muslim groups (wahabis, Taliban, ISIS, etc.) for doing bad acts and bringing a bad name to the religion of Islam. Now, very sadly, the actions of a few in our community are giving a bad name to Islam.

Look at the comments in the various articles - Washington post, forbes, NDTV article, Detroit newspapers, there are comments by the 100. And many blame the religion for the actions of a few. In ndtv, a lot of hindus are saying that this is barbaric Islamic practice when it is only a tiny sect of Islam that has some folks who practice it.

Sad that the actions of a few in our community (and that includes the folks at the top, priests (Aamils), some abdes and amtes) are bringing a bad name to the larger religion of Islam.