The Empire Crumbles II

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
UnhappyBohra
Posts: 491
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

The Empire Crumbles II

#1

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:12 pm

A year ago I wrote a small post called The Empire Cracks that got some traction on social media. Mufaddal Saifuddin had made a speech on April 25th 2016 that had been leaked by someone who had been present at the so-called Zikra. In the speech he had thumped the table to declare that Khafz must be performed and had social media on fire due to the contradiction with the letters which had just been released by Western jamaats banning the practise. Today we see the consequences of that speech. The face of a Bohra woman has come to represent backward practises among Muslims as a whole. People in the West are beginning to question the value of multi-culturalism, if it also means introduction of barbaric practices into the Western Hemisphere. Bohras are being viewed by other Muslims as giving Islam a bad name. How did we fall so far in three years? In the past three years we went from being an elite Islamic community to being the face of regressive Islamic practices. We had plenty of warning. Most people recognized MS as being a sub-par and regressive leader. We were warned by Fatemi Dawat that he was not even a true leader. Yet we were apathetic. Taking a stand for truth was too difficult and too risky to our two Kharas, two mithaas comfort. So now we must pay the price. The empire will crumble further and we may all be left without a home unless we take refuge in the new shelter that grows stronger by the day. A shelter that provides peace, reason, knowledge and refuge from the chaos of a mad man's rule. Alternately we could do-nothing and have Bohraism become a mere of a shadow of the glory days of the Burhanuddin era.



dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 417
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#2

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:27 am

I tend to agree with you; MS tends to occasionally "lose it" and say things; and 2 things have changed from before (that is 20 or so years back). Recording technology is available to everyone (cell phones), and communication technology (whatsapp, this blog, etc.) is available to very quickly make it available worldwide. And I have a feeling that sometime he will end up rubbing some powerful forces the wrong way, and the Empire may crumble even more.

One example are the bayaans that have a rant against Christians (as in Udaipur, Dec 2013, I think). And there are several other rants against Christians. Now if some authorities in predominantly Christian countries (like UK, Germany, USA) are offended by it and complain to the Indian authorities, or take action themselves, can't blame them. And that can hurt the Kothar and it will also hurt the Bohras as collateral damage.



objectiveobserver53
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#3

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:35 am

Muffy has indeed brought shame to Dawoodi Bohras. The community in the US is in a state of anxiety as many many parents are guilty of this crime and no one knows when the FBI will come knocking and for the first time ever there is an admission even from jamaat old-timers that Mufs did not take the right stance on Khafz. There is even grudging admission that the Fatemi Dawat leader was smart about it and has eliminated the problem from his community for good!! Wow this community has come a long way indeed!! That "thak thak" is the sound of Muffy digging his own grave indeed. :roll:



allbird
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:01 am

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#4

Unread post by allbird » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:31 am

The empire may get saved, when the next mazoom aka next mansoos get selected soon and he has his head on his shoulders. And this coo-coo banana does not give more fatwas from Takhak e imam.

Any guess who is going to be next mazoon since the post is still vacant. Maybe he will be the next Dai in line. Husain BS son of SMS is the talk of the town right now.



objectiveobserver53
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#5

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:27 am

allbird wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:31 am
The empire may get saved, when the next mazoom aka next mansoos get selected soon and he has his head on his shoulders. And this coo-coo banana does not give more fatwas from Takhak e imam.

Any guess who is going to be next mazoon since the post is still vacant. Maybe he will be the next Dai in line. Husain BS son of SMS is the talk of the town right now.
I doubt it very much! When an empire is built on a foundation of falsehood, it will eventually crumble, no matter how many new falsehoods you try to buttress it with....



Reporter
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:34 am

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#6

Unread post by Reporter » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:38 am

Here's Mufaddal's thumping endorsement of Khafz!!!
Attachments
mufaddal-fgm.mp4
(9.32 MiB) Downloaded 215 times



Crater Lake
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:46 pm

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#7

Unread post by Crater Lake » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:47 am

dal-chaval-palidu wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:27 am
I tend to agree with you; MS tends to occasionally "lose it" and say things; and 2 things have changed from before (that is 20 or so years back). Recording technology is available to everyone (cell phones), and communication technology (whatsapp, this blog, etc.) is available to very quickly make it available worldwide. And I have a feeling that sometime he will end up rubbing some powerful forces the wrong way, and the Empire may crumble even more.

One example are the bayaans that have a rant against Christians (as in Udaipur, Dec 2013, I think). And there are several other rants against Christians. Now if some authorities in predominantly Christian countries (like UK, Germany, USA) are offended by it and complain to the Indian authorities, or take action themselves, can't blame them. And that can hurt the Kothar and it will also hurt the Bohras as collateral damage.
You sound like you are making an excuse for the coo coo banana. When MS "loses it" and "says things," he is actually speaking his own mind (such as it is) rather than reading the script written by someone else. It is the only time you get a peek into what is going on in the rotten brain of his. It is very evident that he has deep conviction on locking women up in their homes and throwing them out if they do not wear rida and yes cutting them when they are minor girls even though the corruption in the practice and the pain it has caused was brought to his notice by thousands of his female followers. It goes to prove that the man has no heart. He ignored the plight of the women and their cry for help and instead went on to mock Western Governments. Now his followers are paying a price.



Crater Lake
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:46 pm

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#8

Unread post by Crater Lake » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:10 am

allbird wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:31 am
The empire may get saved, when the next mazoom aka next mansoos get selected soon and he has his head on his shoulders. And this coo-coo banana does not give more fatwas from Takhak e imam.

Any guess who is going to be next mazoon since the post is still vacant. Maybe he will be the next Dai in line. Husain BS son of SMS is the talk of the town right now.
It amuses me that you view an appointee of MS as a possible savior from MS.... The Fatemi Dawat leadership that has led their community with skill and compassion in the most troubled of times, is THE alternative to MS. Time will prove that even more as time has proven it thus far. And yes ofcourse my opinion is not unbiased.



Biradar
Posts: 808
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#9

Unread post by Biradar » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:26 am

It is a myth that the bohras were ever an "elite Islamic community" (as Unhappy puts it). A few Bohras only appear to have progressed, mostly because of the general prosperity in India, specially post opening up of markets by Narasimha Rao. Many urban Indians became prosperous, and so did the Bohras. If you visit any rural regions, or even many slums in urban areas, you will find Bohras live in poverty, have low educational achievements and are stuck in a backwards mentality. Hence, the myth of Bohras ever being an "elite Islamic community" does not hold up to scrutiny.

Now, let us examine if the well-to-bohras have progressed. The widespread practice of FGM, and many other misogynistic and superstitious practices of the Bohras, even highly educated ones, shows otherwise. The failure of the Progressive movement to secularize the Bohras, to bring about transparency also shows that Bohras have not really progressed. In fact, the Progressive movement has abjectly failed, and the power of the Kothari Mafia has increased many fold since the 1960s.

Incidentally, we can't blame only More-la Muffy for this. For decades the children and brothers of SMB have taken complete control of the community, and created a massive, centrally controlled organization which has taken on grotesque proportions. At present, for a common Bohra, escaping the tyranny of the Kothar and the inner circle of shehzadas is impossible. SMB looked on, without saying anything, while his kids were running around like tyrants terrorizing the community into submission.

Now, it is possible that the Fatemi Dawaat movement may become open, secular and truly forward looking. It is too early to tell, though. A lot depends on how they decide to bring in people not in the immediate family circle of SKQ, and how they interpret scripture in light of modernity. Those who circle the heart within, have little use for stone structures.



UnhappyBohra
Posts: 491
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#10

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:26 pm

Biradar you are quite right that not all Bohras have participated in the financial success that many in the community have achieved. However, sad as it is, these disenfranchised portion of the bohra population has no voice and is rather invisible and the image of the community has been based on the success of the Tier 1. I also agree that in the past few years, since dawat has been "hijacked" by the regressive elements, women's education and education in general has been discouraged. An attempt has been made to keep the community uneducated and hence pliant in the hands of the Machiavellian clergy.



SBM
Posts: 6142
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#11

Unread post by SBM » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:37 pm

What is the definition of "ELITE ISLAMIC COMMUNITY" because Aga Khanis as well as Ahmaddiya are more educated and prosperous then Bohra for ages.
Now if some one defines that Bohras are well off financially, again top 3% of ordinary Bohra and full Kothari Goons have almost 80% of the total wealth (please donot ask for proof-it is based on observation and may be wrong) the rest are average or below average but if you take the top 3+kothri mafia and average it out then yes Bohra community looks prosperous financially.
Academically- what have they achieved, I donot remember if even SMB ever encourage his flock to achieve higher education in Science. I know two cases where students were going to Engineering college and they went to SMB for Raza for higher education and he told them to do COMMERCE, seems like he did not know the difference between Science and Commerce. Right thru STS Bohras were encourage to open a HARDWARE business and stay there for generation.
Social Services--How many free clinics or Musafirkhans or Senior Care have they opened for general Bohra population. They started Thaali which every one jumped as the greatest community services and for a while it look liked one but then became money grabbing scheme.

So really how one defines ELITISM, we Bohras have none-- except for few bright stars who really do not care too much to fight Kothari Mafia and just pay the Gangster to save their SKIN..



Humsafar
Posts: 2484
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#12

Unread post by Humsafar » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:58 pm

Mufaddal is our goofball Trump who has goofed up big time on FGM issue. I was with Unhappybohra until:
Bohraism become a mere of a shadow of the glory days of the Burhanuddin era.
Then he lost me and his credibility. There was nothing glorious about Burhanuddin era. Period.

And Biradar, what is it with you always blaming Porgressives for the failures of Bohras. The progressive movement was never meant to "secularize" the community - whatever it is that you mean by it. As for transparency, the progressive movement would have succeeded if the Bohras had not allowed themselves to be so abjectly enslaved by the Kohtar.

Regarding FGM, it is true that even within reformists in Udaipur there are a few conservative elements -- many of them young, the legatees of arch conservative Sheikh Ahned Ali. They are loud and intolerant, and unfortunately also currently in power. They are office bearers of jamat and showed their true colours during the recent reformist conference. The conference was telecast live, and during the delegate session on the last day when the topic of FGM came up and when Masooma Ranalvi (who's actively campaigning against FGM) came to speak on the subject her voice was muted. All the speakers after her who spoke against FGM were muted or their telecast stopped, but those speaking in favour of FGM apparently faced no "technical issues." This was the blatant violation of the very freedom reformists have been fighting for. Ironic isn't it? People protested and complained, but no action was taken against the culprits. No official condemnation, no reprimand. The Central Board officials under whose aegis the conference was held are sitting on their hands doing nothing. Really a sad state of affairs. Just to show that Mufaddal has his allies among so-called reformists and who would not even bat an eyelid to suppress the very freedoms so dear to the reformist cause.



Ozdundee
Posts: 796
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#13

Unread post by Ozdundee » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:27 pm

Humsafar bhai what a sad state of affairs in Udaipur.

Anyway it is fortunate many of the reformists I have an honor to work with are independent non aligned and driven by conscience.



Biradar
Posts: 808
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#14

Unread post by Biradar » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:26 pm

Humsafar wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:58 pm
And Biradar, what is it with you always blaming Porgressives for the failures of Bohras. The progressive movement was never meant to "secularize" the community - whatever it is that you mean by it. As for transparency, the progressive movement would have succeeded if the Bohras had not allowed themselves to be so abjectly enslaved by the Kohtar.
Perhaps I "blame" the Progressives because I know it will irritate you, and hence you will be compelled to respond. It is good to have a sane voice here once in a while.

More seriously, though, I did not say the Progressives are to blame for the failures of Bohras. What I said is that the Progressives failed to achieve their goals of bringing about jamaat independence, transparency and reduction of the power of the clergy. Even the most hard-core reformist must agree that the Kothar has become stronger and more powerful, and things have become more murky than transparent. As to bohras being abjectly enslaved by the Kothar, I agree with you 100%. I have been saying that for years now.

As to the issue in Udaipur. I followed the conference and most of it seemed just the normal mother-and-apple-pie type of stuff. Not terribly exciting. But the FGM thing seems disturbing. As Russell has said, the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. We see this on this board too. Full of cocksure, stupid people. At some level this (i.e. co-opting of the movement by fanatics) was bound to happen. Fanatics by definition are determined, while the more thoughtful types are loath to start fights and create divisions. It does not take a genius to figure out what the long term fate of the movement would be.

Also, I know you are probably busy, but it may be good to lend your voice and ideas here more often. It is getting a trifle boring. And where is porous anyway?



UnhappyBohra
Posts: 491
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#15

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:34 am

Humsafar wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:58 pm
Mufaddal is our goofball Trump who has goofed up big time on FGM issue. I was with Unhappybohra until:
Bohraism become a mere of a shadow of the glory days of the Burhanuddin era.
Then he lost me and his credibility. There was nothing glorious about Burhanuddin era. Period.
As someone who perhaps suffered social boycott during the Burhanuddin era. I can see how you would have that perspective. However, those of us who moved to the West and raised families here during his reign, have experienced his glory first hand. Wherever we moved, we had organized communities to welcome us or we were getting organized, we participated in the building of beautiful masjids to worship in, we found amazing hospitality in Karbala, other mazarat and Hajj. We were recognized in these places and our leader was revered.

Yes the inner core had begun to rot in the later years. The Shehzadas and other powers-that-be assumed a greater importance than the communities themselves. The communities were only important to the degree that they remained a source of funds. Individuality was discouraged in favor of the collective and it felt like unless you were willing to melt with the rest into one homogenous blob, you had no place in the community. Thali HAD TO be accepted without criticism, Ridas HAD TO be worn (women were made to sign pledges), dari HAD TO be kept, pehran HAD TO be worn, majlis HAD TO be attended. It was beginning to feel like Maoist China in America!

Notwithstanding the deterioration in the later years, the Burhanuddin era did see an amazing degree of growth and prosperity in the diaspora.



allbird
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:01 am

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#16

Unread post by allbird » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:06 am

It amuses me that you view an appointee of MS as a possible savior from MS.... The Fatemi Dawat leadership that has led their community with skill and compassion in the most troubled of times, is THE alternative to MS. Time will prove that even more as time has proven it thus far. And yes ofcourse my opinion is not unbiased.
[/quote]

yes it was my wishful thinking... maybe...however lets us not forget that we are Dawoodi Bohras and a very PROUD RACE. We pride in our dressing, we take pride in our cooking (Bohra cusine) which is either Muglai or modified Chinese, we take pride in OUR PATH OF ISLAMIC BELIEFS, we try to dis - associate from main stream muslims including Shia sect because we are fatemiate's. In fact we are ssssoooo ssssoooo confident that our Moula will guide us to Janaat.

Now in all this confusion we are hoping that a savior would arise and change all this and even fence sitters like myself would jump back to main stream Dawoodi bohra sect and things would be normal as its use to be. Even the sons of Anarchic FD would join hands and settle united. A Dai of dawoodi Bohra with so much of hatred in his heart is not acceptable to such a revered post of DAI ZAMAAN. Please don't tell me Fatemi Dawat is the ONLY Alternative or brighter side since lots of mistakes were done by their dear departed leader SKQ. Gaib na Janaar didn't even knew that SMB's health will worsen rather than improve at this age, while he failed to clarify whether He is the next Dai appointed or SMS ?. STF mentioned few times in his Waez "We were hoping that his health will recover and he will make everything right". We as common bohra with no ilm or Ruhaani powers can guess the deteriorating health of SMB while these Gaib na Malik's both SMS and SKQ feeding us fairy tales of waiting game. like me dear friend says "Bhai Money talks and Bullshit walks"



SBM
Posts: 6142
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#17

Unread post by SBM » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:22 am

However, those of us who moved to the West and raised families here during his reign, have experienced his glory first hand
Unfortunately you did not see OUT THE BOX to find more hospitable environment too. I move to West as student and there were NO jamaat here but was warmly received and helped by Muslim Students Associations (MSA) which had presence every where. we were received by local Masajids ( at that time some of them were Massallahs) and they did not discriminate if we were Shia or Bohra as long as we believed in Shahdah..
Unfortunately when Jamaat was established, Aamil came to my house and I was the first contact to help him organize the Jamaat but in later years I left the Jamaat
So point is you had to look outside the box to get a feel..



Humsafar
Posts: 2484
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#18

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:10 am

Unhappybohra wrote:As someone who perhaps suffered social boycott during the Burhanuddin era. I can see how you would have that perspective. However, those of us who moved to the West and raised families here during his reign, have experienced his glory first hand.
This is such a disingenuous thing to say. Are you going to perceive and judge the world solely on the basis of personal experience? Would you permit no other markers of justice, of morality or even of basic tenets of your faith to inform your understanding of the Burhanuddin era? Just because your cushy life was not unduly disturbed and that you enjoyed the facilities doesn't mean things were hunky-dory for everyone else. I'm sorry to say, but you come across as very myopic and self-absorbed, and your attitude smacks of elitism.

Biradar,
If your strategy is to provoke me then you're surely succeeding :-)
Just to clarify, Progressive did achieve independence and transparency albeit within their own limited circles. The trend never caught on with other jamats for reasons we all know and have discussed them threadbare here. Indeed, Kothar has grown mighty and seems unstoppable - give that to their craftiness and to the deep-seated apathy of Bohras.

About the progressive movement, your prognosis is unfortunately correct. The ideals that fired up the last generation do not seem to matter so much for this one. Reformists in Udaipur have settled comfortably in a state of complacency. If at all, things are regressing. A new crop of young fanatics are making inroads: they are socially active and make things happen so they are tolerated and their failings are ignored. The plea I hear from the elders is: yehi log toh kaam karte haiN, agar inko kuchh kahegne toh phir kaam kaun karega. As you can see, apathy has taken hold of even the most ardent reformists. This might be music to the ears of Mufaddal gang, but it is true. And it is sad.



Biradar
Posts: 808
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#19

Unread post by Biradar » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:55 am

UnhappyBohra wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:34 am

As someone who perhaps suffered social boycott during the Burhanuddin era. I can see how you would have that perspective. However, those of us who moved to the West and raised families here during his reign, have experienced his glory first hand. Wherever we moved, we had organized communities to welcome us or we were getting organized, we participated in the building of beautiful masjids to worship in, we found amazing hospitality in Karbala, other mazarat and Hajj. We were recognized in these places and our leader was revered.
This sounds like a page from some SS propaganda book.

My friend, have you considered the source of the so-called glory which SMB enjoyed? Let us think about this a little. Coercive taxation and homogenization had begun decades ago, even when SMB was healthy and aware of what was happening around him. The glory was all a tremendous show put on by a mafia regime that was hell-bent on consolidating their power. Yes, access to certain places in the Middle-East became easier. However, have you considered the fact that this access became easier for everyone and not just Bohris? Hundred of millions of pilgrims visit Karbala and Hajj without any issue. So why are Bohri experience so special?

The real issue with SMB's "glorious" era was that he oversaw the compete destruction of the diversity in the Bohra community. In dress we became drab ocean of STD. Previously there were regional dresses, and people would wear sheerwani, different types of dresses and caps. All was destroyed by SMB in favor of the bland STD. There was a thriving scholarship in the community, with a large number of intellectuals, writers, poets and historians. All destroyed by the Kothari Mafia who could not stand anyone even an iota smarter than them. There were dozens of local charities that were run, even by people of modest means. All destroyed by the Shehzadas who could not stand anyone doing charity, including themselves! After all, they wanted inflow and not outflow.

Worse, what did this "glorious" SMB do to help the Progressives? Absolutely nothing. He sat around making sweet speeches, while his mafia gangs beat, spit and harassed anyone who dared to disagree with him. Please read the horrific tales of people who were removed from jaamia. A little girl was tossed out of a building, and an old, ailing man was beaten to death. His water was cut-off. This is the action of Yazid not a "glorious" person. Around the world, Progressives were beaten, harassed and abused. Yet, this "glorious" person sat around in comfortable million dollar homes, hunted lions, water buffalo, elephants, ate tasty ziyaatfats, collected selfies with world leaders, including tyrants, all the while enriching himself like a Firon.

You also display the typical trait of a selfish, gluttonous Bohra. All you care about is how your life was made comfortable. This is typical: all a Bhori cares about is getting a nice, tasty meal, damned be everything else. So what if the cost of the meal is total surrender of all your freedom, your independence to the Mafia? At least you enjoyed a few botis and chomped down dal-chaval-palidu. All you care about is a emitting a satisfied burp at the end of a good meal.

Please grow up, and don't be led, or misled, by your belly. Think carefully: SMB presided over the most corrupt and despotic era in Bohra history. More-la Muffy may be worse, but the era of SMB was not "glorious". The problems started there, and SMB, like the blind Dhritarashtra let the Duryodhans and Dushashan run amok.



SBM
Posts: 6142
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#20

Unread post by SBM » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:06 pm

^^^^^
Biradar
That was some write up.....



bohra_manus
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#21

Unread post by bohra_manus » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:10 pm

Very well said Bro. Birader.
People keep calling SMB era glorious, I think NOT.
He is the main propagator of the destruction that started by STS.



Humsafar
Posts: 2484
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#22

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:40 pm

Yes, excellent post. You nailed it Biradar.



dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 417
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#23

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:50 pm

+1. Good post, Biradar



UnhappyBohra
Posts: 491
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#24

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:03 am

Buuuurp.... Consider my eyes opened. now I need to chow down some more botis....



kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#25

Unread post by kimanumanu » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:50 am

Bro Biradar that was a strongly worded write up. However, there is a part of me, in the light of the revelations that came after his demise via SKQ, that thinks he was himself a prisoner of this Kothari mafia. I would like to believe that he personally did not authorise what happened. That he was aware of the atrocities but was powerless to stop them. Yes this has happened before in history that the leader is not able to take decisive action for whatever reasons. What we know for a fact is that he was rightly appointed. There is no doubt in that. Of course there is then the question of the validity of his predecessor going all the way back to the 46th Dai. But, at least for our current generation, we did not have any doubt that SMB was rightfully appointed. There was a marked change that I personally started seeing after that Africa episode with SKQ. Things really changed drastically after that. Until then we sort of had all the diversity and independence you allude to in your write up. We even had pictures of SKQ and the then Mukassir on our walls. Suddenly all that changed. Overnight the pics came down. We stopped taking their names. And then the full blown brainwashing started. The dress code slowly started getting pushed and enforced. You can pinpoint this exactly in the timeline. I remember vividly the first time I had to go to a tailor's to be measured up for the new uniform. Till then I used to wear anything I fancied. So even I, in my relatively young age, was aware of this change. However, at that time I had no reason to believe this was the workings of an evil system. I did believe this was all from SMB himself and is the reason I was accepting everything and doing what was being asked. They did sideline SKQ completely in most places, particularly East Africa, and we pretty much even stopped recognising him. The shehzadas became more prominent and important as part of this. So, this is why I don't fully join the blaming of SMB. I like to keep the thought alive that he was as much a victim rather than perpetrator. He was powerless and did what he could to keep things going for, perhaps, his future successors. His questioning and silence in some instances during the whole period after the alleged "nass" on SMS add some weight to this. The fact that he was able to utter sentences but never clearly mentioned SMS as his successor makes me believe that perhaps there is truth in what SKQ and now STF are stating.

So why am I not declaring myself as a follower of STF? This one is bugging me too. What is stopping me? What more proof am I waiting for? The honest truth is that I don't know myself. I am still searching for that one final push to convince me 100%. It hasn't happened yet and am hoping it will soon. Till then I will keep doing what am currently doing. Which is refuse to be part of the show that is SMS led dawat. Keep my distance and not involve myself with their activities. It's the least I could do at a personal level.



think
Posts: 1764
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: The Empire Crumbles II

#26

Unread post by think » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:52 pm

S.K.Q or S.M.B. may have been a prisoner if you say so, but what a royal prisoner. The clergy Mafia may be looting the public but the leaders and now s.m. b. are enjoying the loot, so this makes him an accessory to the crime that was committed by his gang.