Reflections ...

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Wajid
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:52 pm

Reflections ...

#1

Unread post by Wajid » Tue May 23, 2017 10:30 am

بِسمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحمٰنِ الرَّحيمِ

لَهُ مُعَقِّباتٌ مِن بَينِ يَدَيهِ وَمِن خَلفِهِ يَحفَظونَهُ مِن أَمرِ اللَّهِ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لا يُغَيِّرُ ما بِقَومٍ حَتّىٰ يُغَيِّروا ما بِأَنفُسِهِم ۗ وَإِذا أَرادَ اللَّهُ بِقَومٍ سوءًا فَلا مَرَدَّ لَهُ ۚ وَما لَهُم مِن دونِهِ مِن والٍ

For each, there are angels in succession, before and behind him: they guard him by the command of Allah ; Allah does not change the condition of a people until they change their own condition; But when Allah willeth a people’s punishment, there is no turning it back, nor will they find besides him any protector
Surah Raad : 11
As Salaam o Alaikum,

A few days ago, during my quran recitation, I stumbled upon the above ayah. I looked for the meaning and it made me ponder and reflect upon for quite some time. In my humble effort to understand and absorb the ayah, I tried to analyze it in view of the current bohra situation that I would like to share with you …
I must admit that I am no Islamic scholar and if there are any mistakes - Astagfirullah.

I study the ayat into three components.

Let me start with the central part of the ayah – the punch line as I would say :
إِنَّ اللَّهَ لا يُغَيِّرُ ما بِقَومٍ حَتّىٰ يُغَيِّروا ما بِأَنفُسِهِم ۗ
“… Surely Allah does not change the condition of a people until they change their own condition…”


Majority of the bohras are, it seems, waiting for a miracle from Allah to rescue them …
Take it into the perspective of the situation after the death of Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin (RA) :

[*]When his Mazoon for fifty years declared that he was the true successor of SMB (RA), the usurpers of the power immediately responded with profanity, pronouncing laanats on Sayedna Qutbuddin (RA) from every masjids (so called), markaz and gatherings. I would like to think that a majority of the bohras did not approve this behavior but sat through the proceedings.
[*]Came a period of time when the two daughters of SKQ (RA) were facing struggles of their lifetime to maintain the custody of their children in the United States. On their difficulties, again the same people started distributing “khushi na chooba” and celebrating with fireworks. Think: which human being (forget the Dai position that MS claims to be), makes stand his grandkids in majlis with thousands of people around them cursing their own mothers that bore them and their maternal grandfather. Again, a majority of good bohras did not approve this behavior but sat through the proceedings. May be the self proclaimed "Dai" has never read or understood the quranic ayah : The below command is for the entire humanity - if the so-called dai would have some ...

وَوَصَّينَا الإِنسانَ بِوالِدَيهِ إِحسانًا ۖ حَمَلَتهُ أُمُّهُ كُرهًا وَوَضَعَتهُ كُرهًا ۖ وَحَملُهُ وَفِصالُهُ ثَلاثونَ شَهرًا ۚ حَتّىٰ إِذا بَلَغَ أَشُدَّهُ وَبَلَغَ أَربَعينَ سَنَةً قالَ رَبِّ أَوزِعني أَن أَشكُرَ نِعمَتَكَ الَّتي أَنعَمتَ عَلَيَّ وَعَلىٰ والِدَيَّ وَأَن أَعمَلَ صالِحًا تَرضاهُ وَأَصلِح لي في ذُرِّيَّتي ۖ إِنّي تُبتُ إِلَيكَ وَإِنّي مِنَ المُسلِمينَ
[/size]
We have enjoined man to be kind to his parents. His mother has carried him in travail,and bore him in travail,and his gestation and weaning take thirty months.When he comes of age and reaches forty years,he says, ‘My Lord!Inspire me to give thanks for Your blessing with which You have blessed me and my parents,and that I may do righteous deeds which may please You,and invest my descendants with righteousness.Indeed I have turned to you in penitence,and I am one of the muslims.’

Al Ahqaf : 15
[*]Then came a time when SKQ (RA) transitioned to the hereafter. The same usurpers of power responded by burning effigies and celebrating with the fireworks the death of the very same person who they would stand in queue for hours to take his doua. Again, majority sat through the proceedings.

It seems that bohras are suffering from the boiling frog syndrome. Until when will bohras sit adjusting their body temperature like a frog in slowly heated water that has almost reached a boiling point …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyBKz1wdK0M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-I90EtZO9Q

This brings me to the third component of the ayah :

ۗ وَإِذا أَرادَ اللَّهُ بِقَومٍ سوءًا فَلا مَرَدَّ لَهُ ۚ وَما لَهُم مِن دونِهِ مِن والٍ
“… But when Allah willeth a people’s punishment, there is no turning it back, nor will they find besides him any protector… ”


[*]The masjids that were used to pronounce laanats on SKQ (RA), I foresee, may meet the same fate; become the remnants of the past - like the past Ummayad masjids where the laanats were showered on Maula Ali (AS) and Imam Hussain (AS). History repeats ...
As Sayedna Fakhruddin lamented this behavior in his very first bayan …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq2SfxjaE8Q

[*]Then, the community celebrated the children custody case enjoying and rejoicing over the hardships of the daughters of SKQ (RA). Today, half of the community parents are in awe and running after lawyers fearing the loss of custody of their own children in the USA following the FBI inquiries on FGM.
مَن جاءَ بِالحَسَنَةِ فَلَهُ خَيرٌ مِنها ۖ وَمَن جاءَ بِالسَّيِّئَةِ فَلا يُجزَى الَّذينَ عَمِلُوا السَّيِّئَاتِ إِلّا ما كانوا يَعمَلونَ
If any does good, the reward to him is better than his deed; but if any does evil, the doers of evil are only punished (to the extent) of their deeds.
Al-Qasas : 84
[/i]

And now the first component of the ayah :

لَهُ مُعَقِّباتٌ مِن بَينِ يَدَيهِ وَمِن خَلفِهِ يَحفَظونَهُ مِن أَمرِ اللَّهِ ۗ

… “For each, there are angels in succession, before and behind him: they guard him by the command of Allah” …


I remember of this ayah recited by Sayedna Qutbuddin (RA) to an old muminah. She lived alone in Bhendi Bazaar and when she expressed her fear to SKQ (RA) of the community backlash, he instilled courage in her by reciting with the above ayah.

Truly, I feel blessed to have responded to the Dawat of Sayedna Qutbuddin (RA) and his successor Sayedna Fakhruddin where the guidance flows uninterrupted. Be it in the form of an answer to the contemporary issues like eradicating the FGM on minor girls & Islamic finances, or to a larger spiritual satisfaction.

There is enough light if one wishes to see …

FiAmanillah



think
Posts: 1764
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Reflections ...

#2

Unread post by think » Tue May 23, 2017 12:10 pm

The very ayat" be kind to your parents" was completely neglected and the children were asked to do lanaat on their mothers. . What kind of a Dai , is the present dai , who dictates his children to go against the quran and its teachings?



Wajid
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: Reflections ...

#3

Unread post by Wajid » Tue May 23, 2017 2:08 pm

Salaams.
Bhai there are many ayats in the Quran pertaining to the parents and their elevated status : read surah Isra - 23/24 for example.
Here the behavior of the "self proclaimed" dai merits condemnation. Only if Bohra's could think ... alas !

وَقَضَىٰ رَبُّكَ أَلَّا تَعْبُدُوا إِلَّا إِيَّاهُ وَبِالْوَالِدَيْنِ إِحْسَانًا إِمَّا يَبْلُغَنَّ عِندَكَ الْكِبَرَ أَحَدُهُمَا أَوْ كِلَاهُمَا فَلَا تَقُل لَّهُمَا أُفٍّ وَلَا تَنْهَرْهُمَا وَقُل لَّهُمَا قَوْلًا كَرِيمًا
Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honour.

وَاخْفِضْ لَهُمَا جَنَاحَ الذُّلِّ مِنَ الرَّحْمَةِ وَقُل رَّبِّ ارْحَمْهُمَا كَمَا رَبَّيَانِي صَغِيرًا
And, out of kindness, lower to them the wing of humility, and say: "My Lord! bestow on them thy Mercy even as they cherished me in childhood."



Kaka Akela
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Reflections ...

#4

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Tue May 23, 2017 10:48 pm

Bro Wajid :
Laanats on own relatives whether it is our ex-Mazoon or his daughter is not an innovation of Mufaddalis. Since you are quoting the Ayats from quran e Majid please also dig out the ayats where Allah sends Laanat on his once ustad of Farishtas (i.e Shaitan). I am sure as a ustad he was once dear to Allah but when he disobeyed the hukam of Allah he lost all that prestige and became deserving of Laanat.
Similarly the ex-Mazoon, when he kept quiet for 50 years and enjoyed all the benefits of his rutba then rebelled and did not accept the Nass e jali of the 52nd dai, he also became deserving of laanat. you are wrong to say that," that a majority of the bohras did not approve this behavior but sat through the proceedings." I believe Majority understood better than you and sat through the proceedings.

Pls do not start a sectarian war or a pissing contest as to my Dai is better than your Dai. This feud will continue for a long time to come.



SBM
Posts: 6142
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Reflections ...

#5

Unread post by SBM » Wed May 24, 2017 8:00 am

I think Allaha has sent Laanat in Surah Lahab on Abu Jehel if I am not mistaken
There are various Ayahs in Quran where Laanaat is given even to the Followers of Lut



Wajid
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: Reflections ...

#6

Unread post by Wajid » Wed May 24, 2017 8:48 am

Salaams,

Yes there are many instances where Allah (swt) pronounces laanats on individuals for their misdeeds. The first one being on the son of Adam (as), son of Nuh (as), Lut (as) etc ...
You guys are missing a point here :
At no instance, a child is allowed to pronounce curse upon his parents. The command is to respect parents and be kind to them. Especially the mother, as she has a special status in eyes of Allah (swt), as I quoted in the above ayah.
Take an example of Ibrahim (as) and how he addresses to his "father" with respect and kindness. Even when talking him off the most grievous crime of "shirk". As detailed out in Surah Maryam (41 to 45).
وَاذكُر فِي الكِتابِ إِبراهيمَ ۚ إِنَّهُ كانَ صِدّيقًا نَبِيًّا
And mention in the Book Abraham. Indeed he was a truthful one, a prophet.
إِذ قالَ لِأَبيهِ يا أَبَتِ لِمَ تَعبُدُ ما لا يَسمَعُ وَلا يُبصِرُ وَلا يُغني عَنكَ شَيئًا
When he said to his father, ‘O my Father! Why do you worship that which neither hears nor sees, and is of no avail to you in any way?
يا أَبَتِ إِنّي قَد جاءَني مِنَ العِلمِ ما لَم يَأتِكَ فَاتَّبِعني أَهدِكَ صِراطًا سَوِيًّا
Father! Indeed a knowledge has already come to me which has not come to you. So follow me that I may guide you to a right path.
يا أَبَتِ لا تَعبُدِ الشَّيطانَ ۖ إِنَّ الشَّيطانَ كانَ لِلرَّحمٰنِ عَصِيًّا
O my Father! Do not worship Satan. Indeed Satan is disobedient to the All-beneficent.
يا أَبَتِ إِنّي أَخافُ أَن يَمَسَّكَ عَذابٌ مِنَ الرَّحمٰنِ فَتَكونَ لِلشَّيطانِ وَلِيًّا
O my Father! I am indeed afraid that a punishment from the All-beneficent will befall you, and you will become Satan’s accomplice.
I have put the very title of the thread as "reflections". While we probably will never agree on everything (especially talking of the position and the stand of Mazoon for the past 50 years etc etc), we should not disagree on the point that the basic human values need to prevail. For me, this precedes your beliefs - without which, all your religious beliefs and ibaadats are baatil...
Only one instance is enough to disqualify MS and his claim to the "daiship".

FiAmanillah



Kaka Akela
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Reflections ...

#7

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Wed May 24, 2017 10:21 am

Bro Wajid:

You say," i have put the very title of the thread as " reflections" but after copy/pasting a lot of ayats from Abdullah Yusufali, you end the discussion with your hidden agenda which is, " Only one instance is enough to disqualify MS and his claim to the "daiship".
This is called subliminal messaging.
We also can give many many instances to disqualify KQ and his claim to the "daiship".

Please do not use"reflections as a smoke screen to promote your hidden agenda. This site is for Reform in Dawoodi Bohra faith and not for you to promote your dai under the disguise of "Reflections".



Biradar
Posts: 809
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Reflections ...

#8

Unread post by Biradar » Wed May 24, 2017 8:06 pm

Kaka Akela wrote:
Wed May 24, 2017 10:21 am
Please do not use"reflections as a smoke screen to promote your hidden agenda. This site is for Reform in Dawoodi Bohra faith and not for you to promote your dai under the disguise of "Reflections".
Not sure if you are smoking something, or were sleeping under a rock all this while. The arguments about SQK v/s the madman Muffy have been going on here for years now. Even before SMB passed away, we were all suspicious about the so-called nass drama. I myself have posted long analysis of the situation. Not once, about a dozen times. Suddenly, it seems you have woken up from your geriatric slumber and are now trying to attack Wajid, who is probably the nicest person on this board.

Maybe you should read a little here before you say anything. People here universally hate More-la Muffy. To compare him to the quiet, dignified personality of SKQ is like comparing a screeching monkey to a saint. I mean, you really like this barbarian fool?!!! You are okay with his support for FGM, his misogynist rants and raves, his angry outbursts, his seventh-fail intellect, his bungling up of basic history and philosophy, his money hungry ways, his usurping every single thing in a Bohra's life etc etc etc? Really. It is amazing.



zinger
Posts: 1864
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Reflections ...

#9

Unread post by zinger » Thu May 25, 2017 12:33 am

Biradar wrote:
Wed May 24, 2017 8:06 pm
Kaka Akela wrote:
Wed May 24, 2017 10:21 am
Please do not use"reflections as a smoke screen to promote your hidden agenda. This site is for Reform in Dawoodi Bohra faith and not for you to promote your dai under the disguise of "Reflections".
Not sure if you are smoking something, or were sleeping under a rock all this while. The arguments about SQK v/s the madman Muffy have been going on here for years now. Even before SMB passed away, we were all suspicious about the so-called nass drama. I myself have posted long analysis of the situation. Not once, about a dozen times. Suddenly, it seems you have woken up from your geriatric slumber and are now trying to attack Wajid, who is probably the nicest person on this board.

Maybe you should read a little here before you say anything. People here universally hate More-la Muffy. To compare him to the quiet, dignified personality of SKQ is like comparing a screeching monkey to a saint. I mean, you really like this barbarian fool?!!! You are okay with his support for FGM, his misogynist rants and raves, his angry outbursts, his seventh-fail intellect, his bungling up of basic history and philosophy, his money hungry ways, his usurping every single thing in a Bohra's life etc etc etc? Really. It is amazing.
Friend Birader, you seriously need to stop eating those red hot chili peppers or whatever it is that you have been eating these day that has turned you into such an mad, angry, raving bull. It seems that these days, one cannot have a conversation with you without wearing a groin guard

You too, used to be one of the nicer persons here, until this new persona of your which has come to the surface.

Anyways, enough about you. Kaka Akela is also one of the nicest people here.

And the shelling that you are giving him; perhaps you should read the post once again before you decide to jump and hump and pump.

KA is merely telling Wajid to not copy paste other's interpretations here, in the guise of "his humble thoughts" simply to keep matters more neutral. And i support him.

You are free to post in support of whomever it is you believe in, but then be honest. If the SMS camp is resorting to subterfuge to prove a point, then Wajid is guilty of the same in trying to support the STF camp

You can come at me all guns blazing now. Although i know what you are going to say. You will say im a puny little flea, not worth your time etc etc etc. in which case, feel free to ignore me, but just calm down and tone down your theatrics a bit



Biradar
Posts: 809
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Reflections ...

#10

Unread post by Biradar » Thu May 25, 2017 8:23 am

zinger wrote:
Thu May 25, 2017 12:33 am

Friend Birader, you seriously need to stop eating those red hot chili peppers or whatever it is that you have been eating these day that has turned you into such an mad, angry, raving bull. It seems that these days, one cannot have a conversation with you without wearing a groin guard
Don't take my insults too seriously. It is, as you say, a little bit of theatrics and fun.

Incidentally, I have no issues with polite conversation. You are still wet behind the ears, but the truth of the matter is that often politeness gets one nowhere. Decades have passed by and the Progressive movement is in shambles. This board is lurching ahead like a geriatric patient on life support. More-la Muffy is stronger than ever, the Kothar more powerful and without any real opposition at all. As such, one often gets a little frustrated when someone comes along and pretends all is honky-dory and the the real problem is with someone posting some innocuous reflections here!
zinger wrote:
Thu May 25, 2017 12:33 am

You are free to post in support of whomever it is you believe in, but then be honest. If the SMS camp is resorting to subterfuge to prove a point, then Wajid is guilty of the same in trying to support the STF camp
Wat? Do you seriously think that defending SKQ or STF (or, say the Progressive movement) is the same as supporting Muffy?! Do you think they are the same? Are you claiming that board is a neutral place where people should not propagate one view or the other? We have doing this for 20+ years now! Wake up.
zinger wrote:
Thu May 25, 2017 12:33 am
You can come at me all guns blazing now. Although i know what you are going to say. You will say im a puny little flea, not worth your time etc etc etc. in which case, feel free to ignore me, but just calm down and tone down your theatrics a bit
You preempted me. Great job! ;) I will have to keep these things in mind.



Wajid
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:52 pm

Re: Reflections ...

#11

Unread post by Wajid » Thu May 25, 2017 11:18 am

Salaams to all,
I have no hidden agenda here. I have been open about my conviction from my very first post on this forum. I do not post often and only post something I feel worth sharing - some thoughts that were flying though my mind that I felt penning down. I do not post randomly ayats from the Quran "just to promote my agenda or prove my points". You have an argument, please proceed and we shall discuss honestly up to a point of my intellectual limitations ...
You may disagree / ignore / delete at your discretion.

One thing though, I feel saying (repeating) is my analysis on the often brought concerns from many members about the the actions / inaction of the then Mazoon of SMB (RA) for the past 50 years. I knew the Mazoon saab just by his name pronounced during Misaaq up until the death of SMB (RA). When he declared that he was the recipient of the Nass, in the initial days, I had a few questions. However, my niyat was to seek answers without any prejudices and bi-hamdillah, I found answers.

Without entering into speculations or reporting hearsay, I found peace by drawing parallels in the Quran about the accusations made on Haarun (as). When Musa (as) returns, even he holds Haarun (as) responsible for not saving the people from being misled. Had the Quran not vindicated Haarun (as), even the Muslim ummah would hold him as the one who went wrong and an accomplice (as do the Christians and Jews). Often times, we in our limited scope do not see a broader picture. As the bani Israel were misled by Samiri, today we have our own Samiri in the form of MS and his cronies. I invite you to read Surah Taha and reflect upon ...
قالَ يا هارونُ ما مَنَعَكَ إِذ رَأَيتَهُم ضَلّوا
He said, ‘O Aaron! What kept you, when you saw them going astray,
أَلّا تَتَّبِعَنِ ۖ أَفَعَصَيتَ أَمري
from following me? Did you disobey my command?’
قالَ يَا ابنَ أُمَّ لا تَأخُذ بِلِحيَتي وَلا بِرَأسي ۖ إِنّي خَشيتُ أَن تَقولَ فَرَّقتَ بَينَ بَني إِسرائيلَ وَلَم تَرقُب قَولي
He said, ‘O son of my mother! Do not hold my beard or my head! I feared lest you should say, “You have caused a rift among the Children of Israel, and did not heed my word [of advice].” ’
Nothing more to add.

Ramadan Mubarak and Doua ma Yaad ...

Fi Amanillah



Kaka Akela
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Reflections ...

#12

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Thu May 25, 2017 12:22 pm

Bro Zinger:
Thank you, you said everything that I wanted to say to Biradar Biradar. I think the Admin needs to come out and say it that this Forum will not allow promoting one Dai or another under any guise, guise of reflections or whatever. when you call the dai we believe in as Madman Muffy, it of course boils our blood and brings the worst out from us. I have been a member on this Forum for many many years and have seen all its ups and downs, people get discourage and stop coming because of name calling and personal insults. I have not been smoking anything or hiding under the rocks as Biradar was doing when SMS was waving written Nass document from Takhat and 2 shahzadas stood up declaring in front of 1000s as being direct witnesses to the Nass on SMS, also when nass e jali was done in Rozat Tahera in front of 1000s of people. All SKQ has his declaration of Nass with no written document or any witnesses. yes we love our dai with all his warts as much as you love your dai with quiet and dignified personality and there are many such personalities among Christians, Jews and Hindus too.
Yes, Bro Wajid is a nice person and very courteous on this Forum. My dispute is not with his personality, my dispute is for him to not use this Forum to sing praises of his Dai while our Dai is berated and his followers do not come here to defend him.

Shehrullah mubarak to Biradar Biradar and Bro Wajid and Also to Zinger. Insha Allah we will hibernate for a month of Ibadat and fasting and will do doa for each other.



zinger
Posts: 1864
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Reflections ...

#13

Unread post by zinger » Fri May 26, 2017 1:36 am

Don't take my insults too seriously. It is, as you say, a little bit of theatrics and fun.
Well, if that is all it is, then fine, i'll take your word for it


Incidentally, I have no issues with polite conversation. You are still wet behind the ears, but the truth of the matter is that often politeness gets one nowhere. Decades have passed by and the Progressive movement is in shambles. This board is lurching ahead like a geriatric patient on life support. More-la Muffy is stronger than ever, the Kothar more powerful and without any real opposition at all. As such, one often gets a little frustrated when someone comes along and pretends all is honky-dory and the the real problem is with someone posting some innocuous reflections here!
You would be a bit surprised at how dry behind the ears i really am, but let's put that aside. i can understand your frustration
Wat? Do you seriously think that defending SKQ or STF (or, say the Progressive movement) is the same as supporting Muffy?! Do you think they are the same? Are you claiming that board is a neutral place where people should not propagate one view or the other? We have doing this for 20+ years now! Wake up.
This is exactly what i am saying. everyone is entitled to an opinion. which is why i find it very surprising why, when one faction tries to voice one, everyone else is just so focussed on drowning it
You preempted me. Great job! ;) I will have to keep these things in mind.
What can i say, you are becoming predictable :D



objectiveobserver53
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

Re: Reflections ...

#14

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Fri May 26, 2017 5:37 am

Over the past few years, I have made the journey from being a disillusioned MS follower, starting precisely at the moment of the highly suspicious "Nass-e-jali" and strengthened later by the ludicrous diary and letter and confirmed further by the nonsensical bayans, moronic rants, irrelevant programs (Roti making, thaali) and the flagrant and shameless money making - some of which Kaka Akela seems to set such store by.

I made my journey via this forum and and the discussions here, both past and present. For which I am thankful.

I ended my journey at Fatemi Dawat. What I am discovering is that Fatemi Dawat is offering true opportunity for reform and progress without losing the essence of what being a Bohra means. It manages to provide a remarkable sense of community with it's combination of virtual and physical gatherings. I went to FD for the reform, for a change from the regressive vision being projected in the MS world, however I am staying for what I have found here. An understanding of Bohra history and philosophy through the study of the various qutub both from the Fatemi era and from the early duat. I am also staying for what I view as the sound, wise and balanced leadership offered by STF and the opportunity to contribute in the shaping of a community.

This forum has been a fantastic platform for the evaluation of alternatives to the MS world. It would not have any credibility if it did not allow everyone to air their views, including creeps such as Adam aka Fake53.



ajamali
Posts: 248
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

Re: Reflections ...

#15

Unread post by ajamali » Fri May 26, 2017 6:11 am

Speaking of Fake53....Has anyone noticed how absent he has been since the face of MS followers started getting splashed around international media in a rather negative light....? That wormhole must be getting a little hot and full of excrement since he's been in there for so long....



Biradar
Posts: 809
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Reflections ...

#16

Unread post by Biradar » Fri May 26, 2017 9:53 am

This forum has been a platform for the criticism of the Kothar and the da'i for a very long time. Not only has Muffy been bashed and insulted, but so was SMB. I wonder where Mr. Rip Van Winkle was when this happened? All of a sudden, he informs us that criticizing the barbarian fool who has usurped the community and is using it as his personal bank, "boils our blood"! Which proves my point of a dogmatic slumber, or at least a befuddlement of the senses, or a blatant ignorance of what has gone on here for about 20 years. However, I do not wish to further the discussion on Mr. Rip Van Winkle.

As OO53 has said, the only possible way for any sort of modernization to occur, and one wants to remain a Bohra, is via the FD movement. The reality is that the Muffy Dawaat is increasing in fanaticism and there is no power in the Progressives to stop this. We see this in everything Muffy and his followers do. The FGM cases are the latest examples of this. Muffy himself is not sure what to do: he rants and raves that FGM must be done, but then his jamaats in the US send letters not to do it and follow "law of the land"! This is a sign of a community gripped in schizophrenia. Their leader is an ignorant misogynist. No one (with the exception of sleepy-head dopes) can deny this. There are plenty of recorded audio and video clips where he tells us how to treat women (chop chop), and what he thinks of them (worthy of cooking, sewing and sitting in the corner). About his intellectual abilities, the less said the better.

I have travelled and lived at many places, and talked to a lot of people. There is a general feeling of demoralization amongst the Bohras. This was not always the case. At one point, people genuinely cared and were happy and content. Starting about 10-15 years ago this started to change. In reality, the change had started many decades before, but it was not apparent. The reason was that the change was first propagated into the Jamiaa, by Mr. Yusuf Najmuddin and some of his brothers. As we all know, four ustaads were removed from the Jamiaa, and the institution turned to producing fanatical mullahs who would eventually go to every corner of the world to propagate what they had learned, turning a once forward looking community into a bunch of fanatics.

The generally modern and liberal board members were replaced by yes-men of the mullah. All dissent was subdued. We have seen letters from Kothar and the shehzadas, some of which were posted here also, on how even questioning the local aamil was like questioning the da'i himself! This is absurd, and a clear power play to make the aamil into a dictator.

The current FGM scandal is a clear sign of the utter corruption and confusion of the Kothari and Muffy leadership. However, the demoralization is everywhere: in LA, for example, the masjid was not inaugurated for years after the construction was completed, forcing people to pray outside. The madrasa rooms could not be used for the same reason. Many other places have the same situation: incompetent buffoons from Jaamia have forced local jamaats to purchase properties which are utterly useless. Of course, rather conveniently the mullah then vanishes to another city, where he continues to create havoc due to his low-level intellect.

I have personally witnessed the complete and utter sidelining, nay the physical and mental harassment, of intellectuals in our community. So much so, that there are none left. The children of SMB are low IQ buffoons, including Muffy, and they have made sure that no one smarter than them (which is > 90% of people) are allowed a voice. Independent scholarship has vanished. There are no poets or writers of note. There are no artists or historians. No scientists of renown. Compare with other small communities like the Parsi communities, and the contrast can't be more startling. Intellectuals abound. So do philanthropists. Now, giving buckets of money to the shehzada or Muffy is considered to be the highest form of service!

There were many small local charities, doing their best to help others in any way they could. They have all been sidelined and forced to stop. Why? Because according to Muffy, all money should go to him and he can decide what to do with it. Of course, that involves taking expensive vacations in exotic places and murdering innocent animals for "fun".

One can go on, but the point is clear: the current Kothari administration led by Muffy is totally incapable of change or reform. If saying his boils someone's blood, so be it.



think
Posts: 1764
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Reflections ...

#17

Unread post by think » Tue May 30, 2017 10:55 am

An excellent well worded synopsis relating to the present condition of the bohras.
It is so true about the in competatnt mullas coming to u.s. and asking jamaat to buy properties and then being teranferred to other cities. This has happened in atlanta also. One brain dead bohri spent thousands of mumineens money in buying a property close to his home for masjid. The empty land was next to a run down shack which he had bought earlier to be used as markaz, the fancy name given was darul imarat of the mullah from jamia. Not to forget all this at the expense of mumineen. Well the land was in a flood zone, but regardless, the funny part is moulas architect from Houston drew up a plan for the masjid. Construction startede and at every gathering this fanatic mohsin Bharmal kept shouting on the microphone, moula ni duaa si masjid bane, moula ave , opening ceremony kare.
The faqct is moula is no more, the masjid project is turned down by the county because water seepage at the foundation, no ground preparation, haphazard construction by fly by night contractors, thousands of dollars of mumineens money has been wasted . The incompetatnt jamia mulla frfom small town multan was transferred to San Deigo and is still leading the congregation over there..rsonal experience
so, I vouch for everything written . due to illiteracy and fanaticism in the community, the mullah rules.
One can see how the bohri ghettas are shoved into pens in adam masjid eager as ever to hand money.Do they even realize that charity in the name of their creator is not giving money to the goons of the kothar