Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
Shabab
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:11 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1231

Unread post by Shabab » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:28 am

qutub_mamajiwala wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:13 am
Bhai has spoken very well, I hope every one forward this as much as possible and every bohra can hear him out.

juzer esmail
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:24 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1232

Unread post by juzer esmail » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:15 am

*आंधियों से लड़ रहा है, आज भी तेरा चराग़*

धर्म का तअल्लुक़ अक़ीदे से होता है और विरासत में मिला हुआ अक़ीदा अक्सर ग़ौर ओ फ़िक्र और गहराई में जाने से रोकता है। यही वजह है कि तारीख़ की कुछ अहमतरीन शख़्सियतों की ज़िंदगियां और क़ुर्बानियां अक़ीदतों में सिमट कर रह जाती हैं। नतीजतन अल्लाह का कलाम एहतराम और उसके महबूब बंदे फ़ख़्र के किरदार बन कर रह जाते हैं। यक़ीनन इमामे हुसैन (अ.) से अक़ीदत और मुहब्बत हमारे ईमान की शर्त है। हुसैन पर मसाइब ओ आलाम के इन ख़ास दिनों में उन्हें याद करना हमारे ईमान की ताज़गी के लिए भी ज़रूरी है और हमारा अख़्लाक़ी फ़रीज़ा भी है। लेकिन पूरे आलमे इंसानियत पर छाए हुए और ज़िंदगी के हर गोशे में समाए हुए इस अबदी पैग़ाम को दस दिनों के ज़िक्र में महदूद कर देना, ख़ुद अपनी नफ़्सों पर ही ज़ुल्म करना है।

करबला की जंग बेशक अपनी नोइयत में बेमिसाल है। न तो आसमान ने ऐसी मज़लूमाना शहादत देखी होगी न ज़मीन ने ऐसे बाअज़्म और साबिर मुजाहिद। इमाम आली मक़ाम ने जब दुआ के लिए हाथ उठाए होंगे तो आसमान ने बलाएं ली होंगी और जब ख़ून से आलूदा जबीने पाक को आख़री सजदे के लिए ज़मीन पर रखा होगा तो ज़मीन ने पेशानी के बोसे लिए होंगे। सब्रो इस्तक़लाल और अज़्मो हिम्मत की जिस बलंदी पर हुसैन (अ) फ़ाइज़ हैं, सुब्हे क़ियामत तक कोई दूसरा वहां पहुंचने का तसव्वुर भी नहीं कर सकता। ये एक ऐसी तारीख़ी हक़ीक़त है जिस से ग़ैर भी इंकार नहीं कर सकते। मगर हम ईमान वालों को इसकी तारीख़ी अहमियत के अलावा इस में पोशीदा पैग़ामात को भी समझना ज़रूरी है।

करबला की दास्तान सुन कर किसी भी दर्दमंद इंसान का रंजीदा हो जाना एक फ़ितरी अमल है। ग़म, दरअसल एहसास का नाम है। चेहरे के तअस्सुरात और अश्कों की शक्ल में ज़ाहिर भी हो, ये ज़रूरी नहीं। हुसैन का ग़म-मुहब्बत का तकाज़ा है लेकिन ग़म अगर अफ़सोस और हमदर्दी में बदल जाए तो वो हुसैन जैसी बहादुर और साबिर शख़्सियत के अज़ीम कारनामे को 'बेचारगी' में बदल देता है। हुसैन न लाचार थे न मजबूर। बल्कि ये, हक़ के सब से बड़े अलमबरदार का ख़ुद का अपना फ़ैसला था। बेशक नताइज से हुसैन बाख़बर थे लेकिन उस वक़्त इस्लाम को हुसैन की ज़रूरत थी और इस्लाम की बक़ा के लिए क़ुर्बानियों की उम्मीद रसूल (स.) के घराने के चश्मो चराग़ से ही की जा सकती थी।

यज़ीद जैसे फ़ासिक़ और फ़ाजिर बादशाह की बैअत से एक इंकार ने इस्लाम की तारीख़ को बदल कर रख दिया। इमामे हुसैन के पाकीज़ा ख़ून ने इस्लाम के दामन से यज़ीदियत का दाग़ धो दिया।

लिहाज़ा हुसैन से वफ़ादारी का तकाज़ा तो ये है कि करबला की ये लासानी क़ुर्बानी हमारी ज़िन्दगी में तब्दीली की वजह बन जाए। करबला के अज़ीम मक़सद की तकमील तभी होगी जब हम हुसैनियत को अपने किरदार और अमल में उतारने की कोशिश को अपने अक़ीदे का मक़सद बना लेंगे। बातिल से किसी तौर समझौता न करना, अल्लाह के फ़ैसले पर राज़ी रहना, आख़िरत की कामयाबी पर दुनिया न्योछावर कर देना, ग़ैर मामूली मुसीबतों के बावजूद लब पे हर्फ़े शिकायत न लाना, तेग़ों और तलवारों की झनकार के बीच भी नमाज़ न छोड़ना......यही करबला का दाइमी पैग़ाम है।

ये बात भी क़ाबिले ग़ौर है कि इमाम आली मक़ाम के मुवक़्क़फ़ पर घर के सारे अफ़राद उनके साथ थे। भूख-प्यास की शिद्दत से बच्चों की हालत ग़ैर हो जाने के बावजूद, ऐसा कहीं कोई ज़िक्र नहीं मिलता कि हुसैन के घराने की किसी ख़ातून ने हुसैन को अपना इरादा बदलने का मशवरा दिया हो। इमाम आली मक़ाम सब्र और आज़माइश की जिन मंजिलों से कामयाबी से गुज़र रहे थे उन में उनके घर की मस्तूरात भी हर लम्हा उनके हमक़दम रही हैं। करबला के पूरे मंज़र को अगर चश्मे तसव्वुर से देखें तो हम सोच भी नहीं सकते हैं कि इमामे हुसैन का ईमान और तवक्कल किस दर्जे में था और क्या उनका हौसला रहा होगा। एक आलिमे दीन ने अली इब्ने हुसैन के यक़ीन के तअल्लुक़ से भी यही कहा था कि शहज़ाद ए हुसैन ने तीन दिनों की भूख-प्यास देखी, बहत्तर शहादतें देखीं, जलते हुए ख़ेमे देखे, नेज़ों पर बलंद सर देखे, घर की ख़वातीन को बेरिदा देखा, ख़ुद के हाथों और पांवों में ज़ंजीरें और बेड़ियां देखी मगर अल्लाह पर उनके भरोसे और ईमान में एक लम्हे के लिए भी कमज़ोरी नहीं आई। कसरत से इबादत करते रहे। इतनी इबादतें कीं....कि ज़ैनुल आबेदीन हो गए और ऐसे सजदे किए....कि सज्जाद हो गए।

इस में कोई शक नहीं के मुहर्रम के इस अशरे में हुसैन की याद मनाने वालों के दिलों में हुसैन से बेइंतहा मुहब्बत है और ये मुहब्बत जज़्बाती रिश्ते के तौर पर है। हुसैन हमारे दिलों में तो है किरदार में नहीं। बेअमली, बदअख़्लाक़ी, गुमराही, झूठ और फ़रेब इस उम्मत की पहचान न होती, अगर हमारे हाथों में हुसैन के अलम के साथ साथ हमारी ज़िंदगी में हुसैन का अमल भी होता।

*​ऐ हुसैन! अब तक गुलअफ़्शां है तेरी हिम्मत का बाग़//*
*आंधियों से लड़ रहा है, आज भी तेरा चराग़//*

सफ़दर शामी

Shabab
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:11 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1233

Unread post by Shabab » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:56 am

Where is Mufaddal saifuddin?

some kothari mulla sahab told me he is in burmuda traingle to meet some one, is this true?

kothar keeps tight grip on each momeen and keeps close eye on each one especially in these days dont we momeenin also have rights to know where is community leader and why is he absent in these important days.

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malgudidays
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:47 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1234

Unread post by malgudidays » Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:51 am

Biradar wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:21 pm
The things people like "malgudidays" are saying have no basis in the Quran at all.

Really?

Biradar to Nasihat Sun... Haqiqat na Gulu tu chun.. :P

How about the following verse from Quran?

"0 Messenger! Make known that which has been revealed to you from your Lord, for if you do it not, you will not have conveyed His message." (Surah al-Ma'idah, 5:67)

"On this day I have perfected your religion." (Surah al-Ma'idah, 5:3)

In fact, everything these people say actually proves my point.

And that would be.........

Say one assumes that all these things ("imam is hujjat of Allah, he is wajh Allah he is divinely appointed" etc etc) then why is he hiding like a coward?

Al Ayazobillah, What makes you think he is hiding out of fear? your assumption is wrong that Imam is in seclusion because he is afraid of anyone... have you not heard Hadith of Rasulullah ?

“These two sons of mine are Imam whether they will hold (practically) the leadership or be prevented from it.”

Imam(as) is in seclusion for many reasons but being afraid of anyone is not one of them.

What is your justification for assuming that he is afraid? and that's why he is hiding? from where did you get this idea?

In fact, the reality of matter is there is no such person.

You can only claim the reality of not finding him in your personal experience, like many other things in this world. but that does not mean that thing does not exist.

and there is no basis in the Quran for any of these absurd claims.

Well, go and read Surha Yaseen Ayat no 12...

Also, consider the following: lets add up the followers of the 3-4 petty dai's who claim to be representative of this so-called "hiddern imam". (The luxury loving low-IQ moron, the hedge-fund manager, the screeching character in Varodra and the obscure figure in Yemen). Their followers likely number about a million or so. There are more than a billion Muslims. Are we to really believe that Allah would leave the billions of Muslims without guidance or without any hope for salvation? It is absurd! And how absurd these representative of this so-called "hiddern imam" are living in India (or Orange County!) or some obscure part of Saudi Arabia, while Muslims are found in every corner of the planet, speak every conceivable language and have every conceivable cultural heritage! Are we to seriously believe that Muslims, say in China, were damned because they have not heard of or follow the lion- and elephant-hunter enjoying himself 24/7 in his palaces in Mumbai, Sri Lanka, America etc etc?

Why are you stopping only at billions of muslims? what about billions of other human beings? Why was the last prophet sent only in Arabia? why is the language of final revelation only in Arabic, are we to really believe that Allah would leave billions of other Human-beings without guidance and hope for Salvation? Salvation is a different topic altogether... Imamat is divine leadership which is at epicenter of a system given by Allah for guidance in this world so that human-beings can live a dignified life with correct aqeedah and hence achieve salvation as a result.

Walayat is not love.... walayat is submitting to ahkam(orders) of one appointed by Allah. This world is dominion of Allah and sunnatullah is enforced on it. Just like when you visit a new country you are expected to abide by the local laws and not doing so would get you in trouble. similary in this dominion of Allah, Sunnatullah i;e law of Allah is in effect and to guide human beings in his dominion with regards to his sunnat a divine entity is created who has been bestowed with complete knowledge. Now in this dominion if one wants to stay out of trouble and live a dignified life then he should submit to ahkam of the one appointed by Allah i;e Imam(as) in whom Allah Ta Aala has enumerated everything.... again refer to ayat no 12 of Surah Yaseen. Its human nature to love and revere those who help us and guide us and if one sincerely submits to Imam's walayat with marefa then ofcourse love for Imam is but natural.

Just accepting unity of Allah(Tawheed) was not enough, one had to even accept Muhammed as Rasul.(Kalima Shahada)
There was no accepting Islam without accepting the authoity of Rasulullah(swa) in ones social and personal matters.

As long as all the ummah followed Rasulullah(swa) there was no firqa-wariya but problems started when muslimeen breached the oath of Alligiance they gave to Moula Ali(as) on Ghadeer e Khum and instead of holding on to divinely selected Imam they subscribed to an elected Khalif.

In fact, the message of Islam is universal,

Indeed it is, and the concept of Imamat is at the core of message of Islam.

again refer to

"0 Messenger! Make known that which has been revealed to you from your Lord, for if you do it not, you will not have conveyed His message." (Surah al-Ma'idah, 5:67)

"On this day I have perfected your religion." (Surah al-Ma'idah, 5:3)

Highly egalitarian

Yes, but in right context.

and provides a framework for individual salvation that each person can undertake for themselves.

Yes, but by submitting to the will of Allah i;e submit to the authority of one appointed by Allah ta Aala.

Without submitting to the will of Allah there is no salvation and without Imam who is Sultan one cannot ascend to Jannah.

Refer to Surah Rahman Ayat 33.

That said, Allah Ta Aala also says in the Same Surah on Ayat no 60 that the reward for doing good is nothing but good, hence, to belive that one who has not subcribed to or is not aware of Imamat and does lot of good will not get reward for his acts.
again.. the discussion of Salvation in context of Imamat is different topic altogether.

Now, over the centuries there have been thousands and thousands of Aawlia who have provided guidance to their local communities, and they provide a Path that is useful for some and allows their followers to achieve a higher station in the Divine Presence than they could do by themselves.


Similarly, over the milleniums there have been lakhs of sages, gurus, sadhus who have provided guidance to their local communities, and they provide a path that is useful for some and allows their followers to achive a higher station in the divine presence than they could by themseleves... so what? what does that have to do with Imam(as) existence? or his eminent divine position?

However, it does not mean that individual salvation through Islam requires believing in any hidden figures who are supposedly hiding for centuries, so terrified that they dare not show their face.

response above.

Let us also examine the blasphemous statement from the mullah representing the luxury loving low-IQ moron

Let the one you have addressed so disrespectfully respond.

, i.e. "the Quran is mostly metaphors and hence cryptic".
Really? The Quran makes it clear in many, many places that it is a guide that is clear, about which there is no doubt etc.

I agree with you on this, that Quran is not just metaphors and cryptic and it is a clear guide. But it is also true that it has layers of inner meanings and requires contextual interpretion on various occassions in life. That time Qiyas is not allowed rather as per the hidayat of Rasulullah one should approach one of the two things left behind by Rasulullah(SWA) i;e ahl al bayt i:e Imam(as) and his appointed hududs.

Yet these obscurantist mullahs hell-bent on enjoying a Yazdi-lifestyle for themselves and their extended families want us to believe that the Quran is "mostly metaphors and hence cryptic"! In fact, to say that the Quran is "mostly metaphors" actually puts this silly and fatuous mullah beyond the pale of Islam, and even the Ismaili philosophical position. For example, in Ismailism, specially in the Fatimid interpretation and then the Tayebbi formulation, one must adhere to both the zahir and the batin. Now we have this foolish man telling us that Quran is "mostly metaphors"!

Completely agree with you on this point, current ruling dispensation has exploited this concept to the point that people think Quran is only for Thawaab and trying to understand its apparent meaining will cause gumrahi alayazobillah... which is just to keep people under control and brainwashed.

Now, it is true (as I have argued extensively before) that the Quran has deeper layers of meaning and allusions that are not immediately apparent at first sight. But that does not mean that the Quran is "mostly metaphors"! So, for example, when the Quran (as it does so often) enjoin believers to give charity and take care of the orphans etc, are these "mostly metaphors"?! I mean, how could any Muslim say this?

A final point: in the Quran there is repeated mention of the "last days" and the judgement to come in those times. However, the specific claims that there is some so-called cowardly imam in hiding is no where to be found in the Quran.

For sure you will not find mention In Quran of a cowardly Imam in hiding ... because a true Imam(as) would never hide out of fear of anyone and Son of Ali(as) can never be a coward.... but plenty of mention in Quran about Imam and walayat. references cited earlier.

In fact, the concept of a "mahdi" is also not explicitly mentioned in the Quran but likely was borrowed from the apocalyptic literature of the Christians (for example, the Book of Revelations) and other religions
You need to post this on Progressive-Ithna-Ashari Websites :D

Even if one were to assume that such a Mahdi were to appear in the end times (whatever that means) it does not mean that there is some hidden character at present in this world who corresponds to the absurdly inflated claims of made by fatuous mullahs of the bohris!

You are not making sense anymore... we do not believe in Mehdi.. Twelevers shia believe in that.
as for the nflated claims of made by fatuous mullahs of the bohris! not sure as to what exatly are you talking about.

But if you are referring to end rise of an Imam from the progeny of Rasulullah(SWA) in the end times who would fight the dajjal.. then it is a universal Islamic belief.. even your sufi awliyas have their own version of that...

Incidentally, I find it funny that people here are crying for the "moderators and admin" to come kick people like Humsafar, SBM and I out of the board,

Ah.. the three musketeers bullying everyone on this forum from past 15-20 years... dude you do not own this space.. no matter for how long you have been squatting over here...

or that we are being lectured by ignorant, illiterate and foolish people to study "history".

Such nasty language by someone who claims to know so much about Islam. Using this kind of language is not character of good muslim, infact Quran and Hadith have severly reprimanded those who use foul language...

In fact, if you really study history and the wondrously egalitarian nature of Islam, you will realize that the claims by such foolish and parochial mullahs (and mullanis!) have no basis in reality at all


A very generic statement, why are you so bitter? I think you have some deep unresolved issues...Did some Mullah or Mullahni did something to hurt you so badly? Mental Hygiene my friend...mental hygiene.

. And, I am actually pretty certain, the admin of this board is closer to our views than that of the fanatical and backward mullahs. Just saying :)
[/quote]


It is too early for me to comment on admins... but even if they are, I hope they will consider not letting this forum be a place of cheap gossip, alienating commentaries about the very people they wish to help.

SBM
Posts: 6429
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1235

Unread post by SBM » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:08 am

malgudidays
From your post I can conclude only two things
Either you are on Hallucinating Drugs OR
1st year student at Jamea

malgudidays
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:47 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1236

Unread post by malgudidays » Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:04 pm

SBM wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:08 am malgudidays
From your post I can conclude only two things
Either you are on Hallucinating Drugs OR
1st year student at Jamea
My last post was about Imamat, I wonder what in the world could lead to such an absurd conclusions, may be it is your highness who is on hallucinating drug or a disgruntled Jamea Alumni...

awakenedsoul
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:45 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1237

Unread post by awakenedsoul » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:15 am

Someone started this Reddit community. I think it's a great platform to bring awareness:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exDawoodiBohra ... urce=share

whereisms
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:37 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1238

Unread post by whereisms » Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:25 pm


Bohra spring
Posts: 1349
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1239

Unread post by Bohra spring » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:03 pm

I miss SMS. Please find him.

What will we do without him

Bohra spring
Posts: 1349
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1240

Unread post by Bohra spring » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:10 pm

There is more likely chance Abde Bohras will cross the line that Qadyani or Ahmediya have taken.

I read these youth armed with legends, myths referring to Quranic verses to explain their recent rituals as reality.

Rather than coming back to Islam and reset their views are going deeper into the vortex of cultish depths.

Ozdundee
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1241

Unread post by Ozdundee » Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:13 am

whereisms wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:25 pm https://whereis.ms
Well done, impressed with your creativity.

It's so brilliant, I had to respond :D

juzer esmail
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:24 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1242

Unread post by juzer esmail » Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:15 am

https://youtu.be/EL6XdsEGbxI
Surat Jhaapa bazaar FMB gafla

objectiveobserver53
Posts: 510
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1243

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:25 am

Dahod bohra family of five commits suicide due to Economic difficulties? How does this even happen in a prosperous community like Dawoodi Bohras? Is the leader asleep at the wheel? Nobody cares after the photos of the food parcels are taken and posted all over the world.


objectiveobserver53
Posts: 510
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1244

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:35 am

C4A18315-13AB-444A-B38F-E89861EDF19E.jpeg

SBM
Posts: 6429
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1245

Unread post by SBM » Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:26 am

Inna Lilla Hey Waa Inna Elehi Rajeum
Where are all those Shafiq Bawa and his follower. A beautiful family must such a hard time that they decided to end this way. They called every family to find out if they had VAVOTA in their house and if they were doing 1000 Tasbih but could not ask how they were doing financially and health wise

Shabab
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:11 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1246

Unread post by Shabab » Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:58 am

إنا لله و إنا إليه رجعان

Shabab
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:11 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1247

Unread post by Shabab » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:00 am

Need to know the full story from some local person before getting to a conclusion.

إنا لله و إنا إليه رجعان

zinger
Posts: 2043
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1248

Unread post by zinger » Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:58 am

Inna Illahe Wa Illahe Rajeoon..

Let us mantain some decency and not make this about PDB VS STF followers VS SMS followers

Incredibly saddened to see this news

juzer esmail
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:24 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1249

Unread post by juzer esmail » Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:33 pm

अस्सलामु अलैकुम,
इस अफ़सोसनाक घटना के पीछे की असल वजह तो पता नहीं लेकिन अज़ीज़ो अक़ारिब, हमसाए और समाज भी किसी हद तक ज़िम्मेदार हैं ही। असल मुद्दा यहां ये है कि दावत के निज़ाम के मुखिया जब ख़ुद को बादशाह, औलाद को शहज़ादे, घर को क़स्र और मुमिनीन को रिआया कहलाना पसंद करते हैं तो फिर मौला अली (अ.) के इस क़ौल का इतलाक़ भी उन पर होता है कि *"अगर किसी रियासत में लोग भूख की वजह से चोरी करें तो चोर के नहीं, हाकिम के हाथ काटना चाहिए।"* यहाँ इस क़ौल के ज़िक्र से मुराद ये बताना है कि अगर सरदार क़ौम की ख़ुशहाली की क्रेडिट लेते हैं तो बदहाली की ज़िम्मेदारी से भी बच नहीं सकते।
अगर सूद का लेन-देन और ख़ुदकुशी दीन में हराम है तो दीन का ठेका भी उन्होंने ही ले रखा है। इसके लिए भी वो ही ज़िम्मेदार हैं।

think_for_yourself
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1250

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:10 pm

juzer esmail wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:33 pm अस्सलामु अलैकुम,
इस अफ़सोसनाक घटना के पीछे की असल वजह तो पता नहीं लेकिन अज़ीज़ो अक़ारिब, हमसाए और समाज भी किसी हद तक ज़िम्मेदार हैं ही। असल मुद्दा यहां ये है कि दावत के निज़ाम के मुखिया जब ख़ुद को बादशाह, औलाद को शहज़ादे, घर को क़स्र और मुमिनीन को रिआया कहलाना पसंद करते हैं तो फिर मौला अली (अ.) के इस क़ौल का इतलाक़ भी उन पर होता है कि *"अगर किसी रियासत में लोग भूख की वजह से चोरी करें तो चोर के नहीं, हाकिम के हाथ काटना चाहिए।"* यहाँ इस क़ौल के ज़िक्र से मुराद ये बताना है कि अगर सरदार क़ौम की ख़ुशहाली की क्रेडिट लेते हैं तो बदहाली की ज़िम्मेदारी से भी बच नहीं सकते।
अगर सूद का लेन-देन और ख़ुदकुशी दीन में हराम है तो दीन का ठेका भी उन्होंने ही ले रखा है। इसके लिए भी वो ही ज़िम्मेदार हैं।
Well said. I hate to point out that the children did not commit suicide. The parents killed the children and committed suicide. This is a heart-breaking, tragic story and it does reflect as much on the state of the leadership (currently very much MIA - as it does on the dire situation of the followers.)

That this should happen to a family of Dawoodi Bohras, arguably a prosperous community is all the more tragic and the stuff of nightmares. What underlying unspoken pressures are felt by the community that would lead one of them to take such a nightmarish step?

Why would they hesitate to reach out to their brothers and sisters for help? Had they lost hope in their Moula and his prayers for them?

I know that in times of difficulty I take comfort in the fact that there is a Moula who is praying for us. I seek his prayers and it comforts me. Why did this family not have that avenue open to them? They had all the outward appearances of Ashara preparation, but it appears that in the mad rush of Ohbat and the crazy forceful participation in online Ashara, the leaders forgot to prepare and fortify their souls with the message of courage that is so much a part of Ashara.
B17D0C3F-4E7E-4F3D-ACE1-37FAE9A2AB79.jpeg

Qadir
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:28 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1251

Unread post by Qadir » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:28 pm

think_for_yourself wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:10 pm
juzer esmail wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:33 pm अस्सलामु अलैकुम,
इस अफ़सोसनाक घटना के पीछे की असल वजह तो पता नहीं लेकिन अज़ीज़ो अक़ारिब, हमसाए और समाज भी किसी हद तक ज़िम्मेदार हैं ही। असल मुद्दा यहां ये है कि दावत के निज़ाम के मुखिया जब ख़ुद को बादशाह, औलाद को शहज़ादे, घर को क़स्र और मुमिनीन को रिआया कहलाना पसंद करते हैं तो फिर मौला अली (अ.) के इस क़ौल का इतलाक़ भी उन पर होता है कि *"अगर किसी रियासत में लोग भूख की वजह से चोरी करें तो चोर के नहीं, हाकिम के हाथ काटना चाहिए।"* यहाँ इस क़ौल के ज़िक्र से मुराद ये बताना है कि अगर सरदार क़ौम की ख़ुशहाली की क्रेडिट लेते हैं तो बदहाली की ज़िम्मेदारी से भी बच नहीं सकते।
अगर सूद का लेन-देन और ख़ुदकुशी दीन में हराम है तो दीन का ठेका भी उन्होंने ही ले रखा है। इसके लिए भी वो ही ज़िम्मेदार हैं।
Well said. I hate to point out that the children did not commit suicide. The parents killed the children and committed suicide. This is a heart-breaking, tragic story and it does reflect as much on the state of the leadership (currently very much MIA - as it does on the dire situation of the followers.)

That this should happen to a family of Dawoodi Bohras, arguably a prosperous community is all the more tragic and the stuff of nightmares. What underlying unspoken pressures are felt by the community that would lead one of them to take such a nightmarish step?

Why would they hesitate to reach out to their brothers and sisters for help? Had they lost hope in their Moula and his prayers for them?

I know that in times of difficulty I take comfort in the fact that there is a Moula who is praying for us. I seek his prayers and it comforts me. Why did this family not have that avenue open to them? They had all the outward appearances of Ashara preparation, but it appears that in the mad rush of Ohbat and the crazy forceful participation in online Ashara, the leaders forgot to prepare and fortify their souls with the message of courage that is so much a part of Ashara.
B17D0C3F-4E7E-4F3D-ACE1-37FAE9A2AB79.jpeg
Whatever might be the circumstances, committing murder of family and suicide is a grave sin and a coward's way to deal with life.

Everyone has problems but taking such a step should be frowned upon. The kids will probably get proper kafan and dafan but the parents will most probably not. Shariat doesn't say "Don't commit suicide unless .....". It just says don't. Period.

Also taking a loan from bank with interest is haram in the first place. Once again Rasulallah didn't say not to take or give interest unless....

And i know someone once said here that there's so many other organisations that give out interest free loans and even PDB gives them out. Well it would have been a less of a sin to do (if that's even considered a sin) than commiting suicide. So please don't sympathize with sinners

think_for_yourself
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1252

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:14 pm

Qadir wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:28 pm
think_for_yourself wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:10 pm

Well said. I hate to point out that the children did not commit suicide. The parents killed the children and committed suicide. This is a heart-breaking, tragic story and it does reflect as much on the state of the leadership (currently very much MIA - as it does on the dire situation of the followers.)

That this should happen to a family of Dawoodi Bohras, arguably a prosperous community is all the more tragic and the stuff of nightmares. What underlying unspoken pressures are felt by the community that would lead one of them to take such a nightmarish step?

Why would they hesitate to reach out to their brothers and sisters for help? Had they lost hope in their Moula and his prayers for them?

I know that in times of difficulty I take comfort in the fact that there is a Moula who is praying for us. I seek his prayers and it comforts me. Why did this family not have that avenue open to them? They had all the outward appearances of Ashara preparation, but it appears that in the mad rush of Ohbat and the crazy forceful participation in online Ashara, the leaders forgot to prepare and fortify their souls with the message of courage that is so much a part of Ashara.
B17D0C3F-4E7E-4F3D-ACE1-37FAE9A2AB79.jpeg
Whatever might be the circumstances, committing murder of family and suicide is a grave sin and a coward's way to deal with life.

Everyone has problems but taking such a step should be frowned upon. The kids will probably get proper kafan and dafan but the parents will most probably not. Shariat doesn't say "Don't commit suicide unless .....". It just says don't. Period.

Also taking a loan from bank with interest is haram in the first place. Once again Rasulallah didn't say not to take or give interest unless....

And i know someone once said here that there's so many other organisations that give out interest free loans and even PDB gives them out. Well it would have been a less of a sin to do (if that's even considered a sin) than commiting suicide. So please don't sympathize with sinners
OMG! This says it all. Yeah... you most likely had time to ensure that they were conforming with putting up banners and whatnot...but asking you to reflect on the state of your community such that it leads to such an action by one among you is too much for your small mind to grasp!

This kind of an event is a consequence of your Moula was not present during Ashara to tell his people that he is praying for them, that he feels their pain and that you are all in it together!

ajamali
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1253

Unread post by ajamali » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:26 pm

think_for_yourself wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:14 pm This kind of an event is a consequence of your Moula was not present during Ashara to tell his people that he is praying for them, that he feels their pain and that you are all in it together!
Hmmm is MS capable of such a sentiment? I don’t think so....

ajamali
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1254

Unread post by ajamali » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:37 pm

7F4D11AC-7936-4BD7-9FC2-BF770322F8FC.jpeg
Given how preventable a suicide is, it is shameful that it happened in a close knit community such as Dawoodi Bohra especially in such a heart rending manner. Shame QAdir for not understanding that the community has a role to play. In fact, given the pressures, it probably contributed to the stress.

SBM
Posts: 6429
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1255

Unread post by SBM » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:45 pm

There is lot said in some of the above posting
Why would they hesitate to reach out to their brothers and sisters for help
My understanding talking to some of the people who knew them was it was an internal family financial issue so the family did provide assistance and it is always said the MONEY always breaks up the relation .
Suicide is the greatest SIN
Do you know that a person who commits SUICIDE is always considered some one who had MENTAL Illness, usually a SUICIDE is committed due to DEPRESSION, STRESS which can be caused by FINANCIAL, FAMILY or MARITAL issues. So if a person is suffering from MENTAL illness and commits suicide, how can one judge about SINS or OTHER Issue.
Among Bohras, an Aamil would not do Janaza Namaz or provide proper burial because in this judgement, the person committed a SIN, now question is who decides about the SINS, we are being told time and time again that ALLAHA will make judgement on the day of Qayamaha about your SINS and good DEEDS, why a local Aamil decides to become the Judge, what if the Aamil is wrong in NOT providing proper burial based on wrong information, Is Aamil can be charged with SIN because he did not provide the services, he is required to do
Children did not commit suicide
True but looking at the picture, two of the girls seems like Teens or Mature and they may have known that if their parents are dead and it was due to INTERNAL FAMILY issue then they would have no one to turn to for help and may have agreed
Again the failure is on the our GUARDIAN of the COMMUNITY who are more worried about putting banners in the house and making sure people do Tasbih for THE KHOSHI OF AQA MOULA instead of providing counseling to lot of people who are suffering MENTALLY and FINANCIALLY during this difficult time of LOCKDOWN

SBM
Posts: 6429
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1256

Unread post by SBM » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:54 pm

We had a local case where a Mumin bhai was considered that he committed Suicide due to Marital issue and local Aamil did NOT perform Namaz E Janazha and refused to bury him Bohra section of Cemetery. We were able to get him the proper burial thru a local Sunni organization and day later after his autopsy came out, it was due to massive heart attack. This gentleman was living alone as he was separated from his wife.
The Aamil still refused to accept that he erred and disregarded the Medical Examiner's report and believed on his estranged wife that he committed suicide

ajamali
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1257

Unread post by ajamali » Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:27 pm

SBM wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:54 pm We had a local case where a Mumin bhai was considered that he committed Suicide due to Marital issue and local Aamil did NOT perform Namaz E Janazha and refused to bury him Bohra section of Cemetery. We were able to get him the proper burial thru a local Sunni organization and day later after his autopsy came out, it was due to massive heart attack. This gentleman was living alone as he was separated from his wife.
The Aamil still refused to accept that he erred and disregarded the Medical Examiner's report and believed on his estranged wife that he committed suicide
The kinds of MS and his followers do not care about the unfortunate who live among them, why should they care about the dead......

Qadir has made that very clear with his heartless email.

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 607
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1258

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:55 pm

I find Qadir’s comments completely abnormal and evil. A person who commits suicide is someone who feels desperate and trapped. That such a person lives amongst you and cannot think of you as someone he can turn to for help, is a matter of shame for the community he lives in.

I have seen first hand, how degenerate the MS crowd is becoming, because like AJ, I too exist in both the Fatemi Dawat world and the MS world and I have the opportunity to compare the two every day. But despite that, I was not prepared for the complete lack of sympathy and humanity in Qadir’s comments.

qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1023
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1259

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:12 am

Qadir wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:28 pm
think_for_yourself wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:10 pm
Whatever might be the circumstances, committing murder of family and suicide is a grave sin and a coward's way to deal with life.



So please don't sympathize with sinners
is there anything in the shariat for abetment to suicide? is it a sin or he is just let off?
by the way, according to psychology and scientific and rational and medical experts, suicide requires great amount of courage.
it is not easy to do suicide, otherwise half the population of this world would have done that.
just hypothetically or imaginatively try to inflict paint on your body or think of suicide--it is very difficult
not that i am justifying their action or anything, just telling the bare facts.

awakenedsoul
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:45 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018-2020

#1260

Unread post by awakenedsoul » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:22 am

Qadir wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:28 pm
Whatever might be the circumstances, committing murder of family and suicide is a grave sin and a coward's way to deal with life.

Everyone has problems but taking such a step should be frowned upon. The kids will probably get proper kafan and dafan but the parents will most probably not. Shariat doesn't say "Don't commit suicide unless .....". It just says don't. Period.

Also taking a loan from bank with interest is haram in the first place. Once again Rasulallah didn't say not to take or give interest unless....

And i know someone once said here that there's so many other organisations that give out interest free loans and even PDB gives them out. Well it would have been a less of a sin to do (if that's even considered a sin) than commiting suicide. So please don't sympathize with sinners
That is so cold and heartless. I bet you belong to one of those rich families, brought up in comfort, never having struggled a day in your life. For every problem you go to mommy and daddy and they sort it out for you. No wonder you can't empathize with the victims.
You have no right to pass that kind of judgement. You didn't know these people personally, you didn't know their emotional and mental state. How trapped they must have felt to take such a drastic step. That they couldn't rely on their own community or family for support.