Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 500
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018

#61

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:33 am

Reporter wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:47 pm
Mufaddal Saifuddin's claim on Nass:

Can dates be estimated about when a specific letter was written? For example, can a forensic examination be performed to determine if this letter was actually written in 1388 AH (about 1968 AD)? Does anybody here know?

Would MS folks submit this letter voluntarily to prove that it was actually written in 1968?



HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#62

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:19 am

objectiveobserver53 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:22 pm
Why is Mufaddal Saifuddin doing sajda to Syedna Qutbuddin RA in 1988? This event took place well after the much discussed so-called nass -by-letter of third person in 1968 (1388H). Would Burhanuddin Moula RA ever allow his mansoos to do Sajda to another in his presence? What a load of bull! Nass by letter indeed.

https://youtu.be/Zod_Lp5FU_k
Bro i saw this video but where is the sajda. I can see MS kissing the feet and doing salaam but there is no sajda that i can make out here clearly.



HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#63

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:20 am

dal-chaval-palidu wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:33 am
Reporter wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:47 pm
Mufaddal Saifuddin's claim on Nass:

Can dates be estimated about when a specific letter was written? For example, can a forensic examination be performed to determine if this letter was actually written in 1388 AH (about 1968 AD)? Does anybody here know?

Would MS folks submit this letter voluntarily to prove that it was actually written in 1968?
From what i know yes the letter has been submitted with forensic. Will be shown into exhibits when it is the turn for the defendants.



momeenbhai
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:31 am

#64

Unread post by momeenbhai » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:32 am

I wont be surprise if any such letter really exists. Taher fakhruddin needs to understand that his uncle has ditch his father over his son.

when the leader is all about making money, values are left behind.

Burhanuddin clearly ditched his father saifuddin will to make Khuzaima next dai. since money was becoming all powerful in dawat in recent times this is nothing unusual, also we saw how Khuzaima also intended to make his son next dai, so nothing surprising if Burhanuddin did for his family and kept power and position for his own son.

Imam(A) and his consent is absent in all this power game. unless Imam (A) really wanted to keep people wandering and make only few lucky one to see light from all this. Wallah ho alam.


2.257: Allah is the wali of the faithful: He brings them out of darkness into light. As for the faithless, their awliya are the fake deities, who drive them out of light into darkness. They shall be the inmates of the Fire, and they will remain in it [forever].



think_for_yourself
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:12 pm

#65

Unread post by think_for_yourself » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:45 am

HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:19 am
objectiveobserver53 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:22 pm
Why is Mufaddal Saifuddin doing sajda to Syedna Qutbuddin RA in 1988? This event took place well after the much discussed so-called nass -by-letter of third person in 1968 (1388H). Would Burhanuddin Moula RA ever allow his mansoos to do Sajda to another in his presence? What a load of bull! Nass by letter indeed.

https://youtu.be/Zod_Lp5FU_k
Bro i saw this video but where is the sajda. I can see MS kissing the feet and doing salaam but there is no sajda that i can make out here clearly.
From this angle in the video it is not entirely clear that he is kissing feet or going sajda. I think he is doing sajda once and kissing foot once. Still, kissing feet!!! Why would Burhanuddin Moula allow that if MS was truly a future dai designate?!

However there is no point in belaboring this particular point on this video as MS has never denied that he did sajda to SKQ. Thousands of people of our parents generation have seen this. That is why they come up with all these fanciful explanations for doing sajda. That it can be done even as a form of greeting...um....sure....Next time you go for a dawat to your friend’s house, try doing sajda to him instead of hugging him!



momeenbhai
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:31 am

#66

Unread post by momeenbhai » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:09 am

He clearly kissed both feet this is why he raised his head twice, but again thats not a point.



momeenbhai
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:31 am

#67

Unread post by momeenbhai » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:18 am

Also in Dawat this sajda is sajda e ehteraam, and I can also do this sajda to my mother and father just out of respect and that doesnt makes my mom and dad dai.


HOW LONG YOU GUYS WILL KEEP PLAYING WITH INNOCENT BOHRA MINDS TO LOOT THEM?



momeenbhai
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:31 am

#68

Unread post by momeenbhai » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:20 am

just because you guys are lying you have to keep inventing new lies every day, try to start living simple life and give away every thing and see people will follow you if you really have power of truth and if Imam(A) is with you.



momeenbhai
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:31 am

#69

Unread post by momeenbhai » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:28 am

Imam Ali chose to sit at home when his position was taken away, he kept quiet because he knew he is on truth and people will follow his advice no matter where he lives.

if any of these claimants had any truth they would have chose to go silent and sit back and let the people find them. but in this case its all about the money.



HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#70

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:30 am

think_for_yourself wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:45 am
HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:19 am


Bro i saw this video but where is the sajda. I can see MS kissing the feet and doing salaam but there is no sajda that i can make out here clearly.
From this angle in the video it is not entirely clear that he is kissing feet or going sajda. I think he is doing sajda once and kissing foot once. Still, kissing feet!!! Why would Burhanuddin Moula allow that if MS was truly a future dai designate?!

However there is no point in belaboring this particular point on this video as MS has never denied that he did sajda to SKQ. Thousands of people of our parents generation have seen this. That is why they come up with all these fanciful explanations for doing sajda. That it can be done even as a form of greeting...um....sure....Next time you go for a dawat to your friend’s house, try doing sajda to him instead of hugging him!


Common yaar it is evident and so clear that first MS kisses the right feet and than the left. It was a customary in tazeem, i have seen him do it to other STS children.
not taking somebodys side but this is 100% not sajda. And honestly i have not seen nor heard anybody say about the sajda yet. Was waiting for FD side to post something but this is crap if they say this is sajda.



ajamali
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

#71

Unread post by ajamali » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:32 am

momeenbhai wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:18 am
Also in Dawat this sajda is sajda e ehteraam, and I can also do this sajda to my mother and father just out of respect and that doesnt makes my mom and dad dai.


HOW LONG YOU GUYS WILL KEEP PLAYING WITH INNOCENT BOHRA MINDS TO LOOT THEM?
Sure. We all do sajda to our parents every morning. Not salaam, sajda! :roll:

Quite clear who is making things up! I just love how this fellow jumps to the defense of MS after doing gaali galoch to duat in general. Birds of a feather do indeed flock together.



HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#72

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:39 am

think_for_yourself wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:45 am
HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:19 am


Bro i saw this video but where is the sajda. I can see MS kissing the feet and doing salaam but there is no sajda that i can make out here clearly.
Why would Burhanuddin Moula allow that if MS was truly a future dai designate?!

Next time you go for a dawat to your friend’s house, try doing sajda to him instead of hugging him!


Because in Nass (private with witnesses) the hierarchy stays as it is. Why would have Burhanuddin Maula stopped him. It is just the tazeem to the rutba. The nass if done was obv not to be declared. It has actly nothing ro do with the nass. Do the FD guys have a video with a sajda?
Yea if it is a frnd i will hug him but here the case is not of a frnd. You are not making sense.



ajamali
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

#73

Unread post by ajamali » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:45 am

HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:30 am
think_for_yourself wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:45 am


From this angle in the video it is not entirely clear that he is kissing feet or going sajda. I think he is doing sajda once and kissing foot once. Still, kissing feet!!! Why would Burhanuddin Moula allow that if MS was truly a future dai designate?!

However there is no point in belaboring this particular point on this video as MS has never denied that he did sajda to SKQ. Thousands of people of our parents generation have seen this. That is why they come up with all these fanciful explanations for doing sajda. That it can be done even as a form of greeting...um....sure....Next time you go for a dawat to your friend’s house, try doing sajda to him instead of hugging him!


Common yaar it is evident and so clear that first MS kisses the right feet and than the left. It was a customary in tazeem, i have seen him do it to other STS children.
not taking somebodys side but this is 100% not sajda. And honestly i have not seen nor heard anybody say about the sajda yet. Was waiting for FD side to post something but this is crap if they say this is sajda.
In my opinion, among humans, kissing feet is an equivalent acceptance of higher stature. Here MS is accepting higher stature of SKQ when he has supposedly been made mansoos. Burhanuddin Moula seems to be OK with this too! Doubt the 1388 nass happened.



HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#74

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:50 am

ajamali wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:45 am
HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:30 am



Common yaar it is evident and so clear that first MS kisses the right feet and than the left. It was a customary in tazeem, i have seen him do it to other STS children.
not taking somebodys side but this is 100% not sajda. And honestly i have not seen nor heard anybody say about the sajda yet. Was waiting for FD side to post something but this is crap if they say this is sajda.
In my opinion, among humans, kissing feet is an equivalent acceptance of higher stature. Here MS is accepting higher stature of SKQ when he has supposedly been made mansoos. Burhanuddin Moula seems to be OK with this too! Doubt the 1388 nass happened.
Yes clearly it is since SKQ was the mazoon obv in the higher stature in dawat then. And obv MS dis not know about the nass then so he seems to be rather giving tazeem to the rutba of mazoon as he gave tazeem to all the STS children which i have seen. Just like this



HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#75

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:53 am

Also of the FD people say that the sajda was given very commonly by all for 25 years, there have to be photographs and videos of them very commonly available bec every of Burhanuddin Maulas smallest of functions and presence were recorded. In 25 years of history of sajda what they could bring forth is a video where it is clear as day that there is no sajda and just the salaam.



ajamali
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

#76

Unread post by ajamali » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:03 am

HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:50 am
ajamali wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:45 am

In my opinion, among humans, kissing feet is an equivalent acceptance of higher stature. Here MS is accepting higher stature of SKQ when he has supposedly been made mansoos. Burhanuddin Moula seems to be OK with this too! Doubt the 1388 nass happened.
Yes clearly it is since SKQ was the mazoon obv in the higher stature in dawat then. And obv MS dis not know about the nass then so he seems to be rather giving tazeem to the rutba of mazoon as he gave tazeem to all the STS children which i have seen. Just like this
But he said in his waaz that he always knew SKQ was ill intentioned! So in his heart he never gave Tazeem to the person whom Burhanuddin Moula designated as the person in the Mazoon Rutba. And here he is giving tazeem? Why is he putting on a show? To please his father? Also I remember in the Chelam waaz he said Burhanuddin Moula has shown him the letter on a date which he had forgotten :) has he remembered that date yet? How long was this “nass”private? I.e. hidden from the target of the so called nass?



ajamali
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

#77

Unread post by ajamali » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:07 am

HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:53 am
Also of the FD people say that the sajda was given very commonly by all for 25 years, there have to be photographs and videos of them very commonly available bec every of Burhanuddin Maulas smallest of functions and presence were recorded. In 25 years of history of sajda what they could bring forth is a video where it is clear as day that there is no sajda and just the salaam.
Bro my grandfather and father clearly remember the sajdas in Saifee Mahal functions. There is no doubt that MS did sajda. Otherwise he would have just come out and said he did not do sajda. Not make up these cocakamamie stories about what a sajda means.



HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#78

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:08 am

ajamali wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:07 am
HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:53 am
Also of the FD people say that the sajda was given very commonly by all for 25 years, there have to be photographs and videos of them very commonly available bec every of Burhanuddin Maulas smallest of functions and presence were recorded. In 25 years of history of sajda what they could bring forth is a video where it is clear as day that there is no sajda and just the salaam.
Bro my grandfather and father clearly remember the sajdas in Saifee Mahal functions. There is no doubt that MS did sajda. Otherwise he would have just come out and said he did not do sajda. Not make up these cocakamamie stories about what a sajda means.

Where did you hear the stories?



HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#79

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:10 am

ajamali wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:03 am
HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:50 am


Yes clearly it is since SKQ was the mazoon obv in the higher stature in dawat then. And obv MS dis not know about the nass then so he seems to be rather giving tazeem to the rutba of mazoon as he gave tazeem to all the STS children which i have seen. Just like this
But he said in his waaz that he always knew SKQ was ill intentioned!

When did he say this? Could you please tell site a clear refrence? The video seems to be 30 years old atleats when the FD people themselves claim about the sajda.



HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#80

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:13 am

ajamali wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:03 am
HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:50 am


Yes clearly it is since SKQ was the mazoon obv in the higher stature in dawat then. And obv MS dis not know about the nass then so he seems to be rather giving tazeem to the rutba of mazoon as he gave tazeem to all the STS children which i have seen. Just like this
Also I remember in the Chelam waaz he said Burhanuddin Moula has shown him the letter on a date which he had forgotten :) has he remembered that date yet? How long was this “nass”private?
He said it was 4 to 5 years back but he did not remember the exact date.
Also do you know that the nass letter written by SKQ to STF has a wrong date written on it. Yes the original letter.



objectiveobserver53
Posts: 327
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

#81

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:22 am

It appears that HJK has no questions and all the answers. Also his inclination towards FD is not quite evident here either. :wink: Bunch of liars.



HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#82

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:25 am

objectiveobserver53 wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:22 am
It appears that HJK has no questions and all the answers. Also his inclination towards FD is not quite evident here either. :wink: Bunch of liars.
Bro a FD member msgd me in private and i did ask my doubts to him in provate as stated by him, he ran like a mouse after a few questions. I will send you snapshots in private if you want.



objectiveobserver53
Posts: 327
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

#83

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:26 am

HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:13 am
ajamali wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:03 am


Also I remember in the Chelam waaz he said Burhanuddin Moula has shown him the letter on a date which he had forgotten :) has he remembered that date yet? How long was this “nass”private?
He said it was 4 to 5 years back but he did not remember the exact date.
Also do you know that the nass letter written by SKQ to STF has a wrong date written on it. Yes the original letter.
Let me see. A person is being told he is going to be the next dai. Actually not told, according to the narration, shown a letter.... Without words exchanged (bizzare!) and he does not even remember the year, never mind the date. Sounds a bit of a stretch to me.



HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#84

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:30 am

ajamali wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:45 am
HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:30 am



Common yaar it is evident and so clear that first MS kisses the right feet and than the left. It was a customary in tazeem, i have seen him do it to other STS children.
not taking somebodys side but this is 100% not sajda. And honestly i have not seen nor heard anybody say about the sajda yet. Was waiting for FD side to post something but this is crap if they say this is sajda.
Doubt the 1388 nass happened.
You and i may have not seen it bro but we cannot neglect it without verifying can we?
In the honorable court there is a sealed envelope submitted which has independent forensic of the letter and audios and videos & Burhanuddin Maulas hospital reports which will be accessed when required. Probably when its the denfendants turn.

It also has sworn affidavits of 2 doctors which state



HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#85

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:31 am

the specialists who treated, attended to Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin and who actually wrote the medical reports do not agree with these opinions. Dr John Francis Costello;[57] Consultant in Respiratory Medicine, and Neurologist Dr Omar Malik,[58] both who had attended to Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin at Cromwell Hospital in London have stated, in writing, that His Holiness was capable of making the declaration and of conducting a ceremony, even though his speech was slurred.[59][60] Further, Dr Costello stated that he believes the report provided by the USA doctor Dr Daniel Menkes is incorrect.[59] He confirmed that his patient, Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin indeed did communicate his wishes on a variety of issues during his admission.[59]

On 4 June, the day of the Nass in question, Dr Costello noted that there was evidence of continued improvement in Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin's health[59] He confirmed that although he did not witness the said Nass, there was no doubt that Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin was able to effectively communicate his wishes whilst at Cromwell Hospital, particularly in his mother toungue Lisan al-Dawat.[59]

In regards to His Holiness's intellective state, both Dr Costello and Dr Malik confirmed that he was of sound cognitive state, and that he was able to clearly communicate with his family and medical staff.[59][60] In regards to the reports by the USA doctors, Dr Omar denied there was any evidence of a receptive speech problem.[60] Dr Costello further expresses he felt a special connection with His Holiness as he often greet him with a smile of recognition, looked him in the eye, interacted in English, and even become lively at times.[59]

A year later in 2012, Dr Costello was invited on stage to meet Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin. In his medical report[59] he notes that Syedna instantly smiled at him with recognition, and shook his hand for a lengthy time.[61][62]

These reports were submitted in court in the sworn affidavit submitted by Qaidjoher Ezzuddin the eldest son of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin before the Bombay High Court.



objectiveobserver53
Posts: 327
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

#86

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:32 am

HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:25 am
objectiveobserver53 wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:22 am
It appears that HJK has no questions and all the answers. Also his inclination towards FD is not quite evident here either. :wink: Bunch of liars.
Bro a FD member msgd me in private and i did ask my doubts to him in provate as stated by him, he ran like a mouse after a few questions. I will send you snapshots in private if you want.
Doubt it very very much. It is more likely that you flooded their inbox as Adam or Fake53 as Crater Lake and TFY have shared with us and they could not be bothered to reply to you anymore :roll: if you had the courage you would have asked the questions in public as DCP urged.



HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#87

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:41 am

I can right now. Flooded hehe. Whole your life is on assumptions without evidences i m telling you i can send you snapshots even then all tou can do is doubt.


Chalo just answer this for a start.


SKQ was not doing well also undergoing treatment since years but we will stick to his tenure.
STF and clan took advantage of the situationand his ill health, persuaded him took control of the dawat, forged a letter( which has a mistake in the date) and purported the nass drama to which the only witness were 2 women ( against the shakelat of witness mentioned in the quran). Can you prove this wrong. I say that the nass was done by SKQ on me on 18th april 2014 in a private audience he gave me when i came to him for an araz after which He gave me his ring.



objectiveobserver53
Posts: 327
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

#88

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:01 am

I have snap shots of tfy’s and Crater lake’s inboxes. So yeah.. WIth evidence. Once I have their permission, I will share them here. I don’t go into mailboxes and hound people. And i have my reasons not to have any doubt about the nass on STF. No doubt whatsoever. And let’s just say I have doubts about your claim.



Crater Lake
Posts: 292
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:46 pm

#89

Unread post by Crater Lake » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:15 am

I believe that when a naass does nass directly to the mansoos NO witnesses are required. This is as per our texts - please don’t ask me to site references, I am not Adam or Fake53 or :wink: :wink: HJK.

Also try telling the judge that women are not good witnesses....oh wait a minute... I believe you did! How did that go down for you?



HJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#90

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:25 am

Crater Lake wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:15 am
I believe that when a naass does nass directly to the mansoos NO witnesses are required. This is as per our texts - please don’t ask me to site references, I am not Adam or Fake53 or :wink: :wink: HJK.

Also try telling the judge that women are not good witnesses....oh wait a minute... I believe you did! How did that go down for you?
I did not. Rather Al Quran Al karim does. Try proving that wrong. Also again instead of resorting to name calling please which you guys have been doing in every post please site some refrences
By dawat texts do you means professor poonawallas translations who was Burhanuddin Maula s dushman. Is this why shz abdeali said in his last sermon that he did not know frm where MS side had submitted bayaans bec they have done it frm Burhanuddin Maulas dushmans kitabs.
Also if you will now speak about majdu i shall tell you from first that only his compilation list of dawat qutub was sited as refrence.