Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018

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HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

Re: Bohra whatsapp duniya 2018

#91

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:39 am

Crater Lake wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:15 am
I believe that when a naass does nass directly to the mansoos NO witnesses are required.
I am telling you that SKQ did nass on me directly and gave me the ring. Please blv me. STF and clan are all faking it. All a drama



ajamali
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

#92

Unread post by ajamali » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:39 am

Let’s see if you can answer the following satisfactorily first..perhaps then you have the right to question nass on SKQ and STF

Is home cooked better than FMB? Should we follow Dawood nabi’s Example or not?
Should people in America do Khafz or not?
Should girls do home science or ok for them to become aeronautic and chemical engineers, criminal lawyers, accountants, doctors and nurses? Or are we still afraid ke su su thai a la Pence?
Should a man throw his wife out of the house if she does not wear a rida?
Should girls go to University or not? Or is it su zaroorat Che?
Will women who do not make roti still get shafaat from Moulatena Fatema?
Why does he step into poor people’s homes to collect money without even making eye contact with them? Did he need to go to the toilet?
Speaking of toilets.....ew never mind....



Biradar
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#93

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:06 am

ajamali wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:32 am
momeenbhai wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:18 am
Also in Dawat this sajda is sajda e ehteraam, and I can also do this sajda to my mother and father just out of respect and that doesnt makes my mom and dad dai.


HOW LONG YOU GUYS WILL KEEP PLAYING WITH INNOCENT BOHRA MINDS TO LOOT THEM?
Sure. We all do sajda to our parents every morning. Not salaam, sajda! :roll:

Quite clear who is making things up! I just love how this fellow jumps to the defense of MS after doing gaali galoch to duat in general. Birds of a feather do indeed flock together.
In case people have not realized this by now, so-called "momeenbhai" is actually no other than our old friend Al Noor (I Rizwan and a dozen other IDs) who appears on this board again and again like a bad infectious viral disease. Usually, at first he is quiet, then gets agitated and has a total meltdown and then starts intense gali-galoch against all and sundry. His has rather low IQ and has a hard time controlling his anger. In general, it is best to ignore such people as engaging them only enrages them more and they continue to spew vitriol. Of course, the Admin will happily let him and others like him post ad-nauseam, but then immediately shut down reasonable debate, edit other's posts, move around posts etc.



HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#94

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:23 am

ajamali wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:39 am
Let’s see if you can answer the following satisfactorily first..perhaps then you have the right to question nass on SKQ and STF

Is home cooked better than FMB? Should we follow Dawood nabi’s Example or not?
Should people in America do Khafz or not?
Should girls do home science or ok for them to become aeronautic and chemical engineers, criminal lawyers, accountants, doctors and nurses? Or are we still afraid ke su su thai a la Pence?
Should a man throw his wife out of the house if she does not wear a rida?
Should girls go to University or not? Or is it su zaroorat Che?
Will women who do not make roti still get shafaat from Moulatena Fatema?
Why does he step into poor people’s homes to collect money without even making eye contact with them? Did he need to go to the toilet?
Speaking of toilets.....ew never mind....
Since you will never be able to answer the above questions Posed by me, i will answer these to the best of my very little knowldge

If you want fmb or not you want to follow khafz as Rasulullah’s s.a.w sunnat or not, you want to follow the law of land or not is your choice.
I see easiest to bail out and say khafz can be chosen after 18, i am just waiting STF to also pronounce Male Circumcision to be performed after 18.

It has always been mentioned that Mighzal, which covers home science is afzal as alsomentioned in dawat qutub but always specified that other studies and careers can be very well practiced & pursued with shariat and pardah given priorities. Places where our culture is compromised are obv to be left out.


Rasululah s.a.w has said to Ali a.s a person who doesnt follow the 12 adab of baitul khala is deprived of our marefat.
Now i only wonder why would somebody if not genuinely concerned would get into all this. Have you not heard several bayaans of Burhanuddin Maula regarding this. I have. He spent 50 years rather requesting people to do this. It was now time for the father to get a little strict for the good of his children.



HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#95

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:23 am

I hope you know what the importance of pardah for Maulatena Fatema was, i hope you know what the importance of making roti for Maulatena fatema a s was. I hope you have heard about the last moments of her. The bayaan of MS came after a Dawoodi Bohra girl working at nightshift in a call centre was raped. I will not disclose the place.
And the bayaan about roti was about the people who mock about roti making and not the people who do not make roti. It was about how will people expect Maulatena Fatema a.s shafaat if they do not comply with the very basic and the most imp principles followed by her.



HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#96

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:26 am

Now if you are done with name calling and posting only questions would you be able to answer the above questions?

Also would you please clear my doubt on how STF preserved the fiqh and brought back SKQ ‘s janaza without having it embalmed. Where did he preserve it for 10 days?



HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#97

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:27 am

These are genuine questions bhai/behen please clear all mu doubts..



objectiveobserver53
Posts: 305
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

#98

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:32 am

HJK skipped some questions and Glibbed out over others. Most unsatisfactory! I believe AJ’s operative word was satisfactorily.



objectiveobserver53
Posts: 305
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

#99

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:39 am

HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:26 am
Now if you are done with name calling and posting only questions would you be able to answer the above questions?

Also would you please clear my doubt on how STF preserved the fiqh and brought back SKQ ‘s janaza without having it embalmed. Where did he preserve it for 10 days?
Why don’t you ask those who would know? Too chicken? Why are you asking those of us you have chained in your threats of social boycott? From what I have learned, the shariah is samha. Most tolerant. There are accommodations for everything - if needed.



Biradar
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#100

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:40 am

As to the question about nass. This has been debated here extensively, for years now. Even before SMB passed away and as soon as the nass drama was staged in Cromwell hospital and subsequently in Raudat Tahera, people here questioned the authenticity of the so-called nass.

Most importantly, and that provides conclusive proof that Mufaddul can't be the da'i, is the simple fact that he does not have the character needed to lead the community into modern times. He proved himself, from day one, to be a Taliban like fanatic, with highly misogynistic and anti-intellectual views. His rants against women are (in)famous, and on youtube for everyone to see. His opposition to secular education, women's emancipation, and barbarian views on FGM, and his anal obsession with toilets, are all indicators that he is not capable of leading the community. Sadly, under him, the Muffadalies have regressed and fanaticism has increases exponentially, with no end in sight yet. He has the notorious distinction of presiding over multiple FGM cases, spanning continents, scandals of all sorts and with Bohra reputation in tatters all over the world. All of these are well documented and clear for anyone with greater than half a brain.

Hence, his character is so poor that he is not qualified to be a da'i, and the question of nass being done on him does not come up at all. It is pointless discussing fine points of literature and history when the fundamentals are so weak. It is like trying to split hairs about theology when the whole house has burned down.



HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#101

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:49 am

objectiveobserver53 wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:39 am
HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:26 am
Now if you are done with name calling and posting only questions would you be able to answer the above questions?

Also would you please clear my doubt on how STF preserved the fiqh and brought back SKQ ‘s janaza without having it embalmed. Where did he preserve it for 10 days?
Why don’t you ask those who would know? Too chicken? Why are you asking those of us you have chained in your threats of social boycott? From what I have learned, the shariah is samha. Most tolerant. There are accommodations for everything - if needed.
Is this what you have been fed. Really. Ok then. No point asking you. Is shariat so samha that a dai’s janaza can be embalmed and kept in the morgue for 10 days?



HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#102

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:51 am

objectiveobserver53 wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:39 am
HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:26 am
Now if you are done with name calling and posting only questions would you be able to answer the above questions?

Also would you please clear my doubt on how STF preserved the fiqh and brought back SKQ ‘s janaza without having it embalmed. Where did he preserve it for 10 days?
Why don’t you ask those who would know? Too chicken? Why are you asking those of us you have chained in your threats of social boycott? From what I have learned, the shariah is samha. Most tolerant. There are accommodations for everything - if needed.

Too chicken? I am asking all of this on an open forum anybody can answer. I had mailed this to fatemidawat even then there were no replies.



Biradar
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#103

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:55 am

HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:26 am

Also would you please clear my doubt on how STF preserved the fiqh and brought back SKQ ‘s janaza without having it embalmed. Where did he preserve it for 10 days?
Imam Al-Mu'izz carried the coffins of his ancestors across the North African desert and re-buried them in his new capital. Other imams, including Imam al-Aziz did similar things Why did they do this? Can you explain? Is it allowed in Islam to inter people in coffins in the first place? Can these coffins be carried around like this?

Also, was not SMB's body kept on ice right after his death? Why? And, where was Mr. Muffadul? On tafri as usual, enjoying ziyafaats and non-stop and perpetual vacation in Sri Lanka. Why did he go when his father was so sick? Also, is is legitimate in Islam to disrespect your sick father, stuff his mouth with dentures and parade him around shamelessly? Please points to hadiths and Qur'anic ayats where his disrespect is legitimized.



HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#104

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:14 pm

Biradar wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:40 am
As to the question about nass. This has been debated here extensively, for years now. Even before SMB passed away and as soon as the nass drama was staged in Cromwell hospital and subsequently in Raudat Tahera, people here questioned the authenticity of the so-called nass.

Most importantly, and that provides conclusive proof that Mufaddul can't be the da'i, is the simple fact that he does not have the character needed to lead the community into modern times. He proved himself, from day one, to be a Taliban like fanatic, with highly misogynistic and anti-intellectual views. His rants against women are (in)famous, and on youtube for everyone to see. His opposition to secular education, women's emancipation, and barbarian views on FGM, and his anal obsession with toilets, are all indicators that he is not capable of leading the community. Sadly, under him, the Muffadalies have regressed and fanaticism has increases exponentially, with no end in sight yet. He has the notorious distinction of presiding over multiple FGM cases, spanning continents, scandals of all sorts and with Bohra reputation in tatters all over the world. All of these are well documented and clear for anyone with greater than half a brain.

Hence, his character is so poor that he is not qualified to be a da'i, and the question of nass being done on him does not come up at all. It is pointless discussing fine points of literature and history when the fundamentals are so weak. It is like trying to split hairs about theology when the whole house has burned down.
So because you donot have any defence for SKQ and STF you blame MS s character. Or is it that bec u assume all this so SKQ was the right dai.



HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#105

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:23 pm

Biradar wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:55 am
HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:26 am

Also would you please clear my doubt on how STF preserved the fiqh and brought back SKQ ‘s janaza without having it embalmed. Where did he preserve it for 10 days?
Imam Al-Mu'izz carried the coffins of his ancestors across the North African desert and re-buried them in his new capital. Other imams, including Imam al-Aziz did similar things Why did they do this? Can you explain? Is it allowed in Islam to inter people in coffins in the first place? Can these coffins be carried around like this?

Also, was not SMB's body kept on ice right after his death? Why? And, where was Mr. Muffadul? On tafri as usual, enjoying ziyafaats and non-stop and perpetual vacation in Sri Lanka. Why did he go when his father was so sick? Also, is is legitimate in Islam to disrespect your sick father, stuff his mouth with dentures and parade him around shamelessly? Please points to hadiths and Qur'anic ayats where his disrespect is legitimized.
Not coffins it were the janazah. Please site refrences for Imam Moiz and Imam Aziz zikar that you mention. And do you equate Keeping the janazah on the ice for a couple of hours to embalming and storing for 10 days. I pity you guys for vague examples.
I am genuinely asking you questions and here you and instead of giving me answers you are telling me y somebody else cannot be the dai insted of telling me how SKQ and STF are the dai



Biradar
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#106

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:35 pm

HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:14 pm


So because you donot have any defence for SKQ and STF you blame MS s character. Or is it that bec u assume all this so SKQ was the right dai.
As I said, the question of nass can't come up if the person claiming nass does not have the character of a da'i. You made a claim that SKQ did nass on you. Obviously, you were joking, but as you have no standing no one needs to take every such claim seriously. A mazoon making a claim is a very different thing. According to our theology, mazoon can only utter the truth and hence his word is all one really needs. Shehzadas have often conspired against their fathers in the past. In fact, even Imam's children conspired against him often.

Sayedna Hatim has written a book on the character of a da'i and his qualifications. These were not invented by Sayedna Hatim, but were determined during the time of the Imam and were approved by his highest hujjats and da'is. To any objective observer, the character of MS is not that of a da'i. In fact, even an ordinary mumin won't do what MS did: i.e, parade his father like a puppet. I saw this myself and honestly, there can't be words to describe the pain one felt at the disrespect that was shown to SMB. Also, one can evaluate the character of MS for oneself. This is not hearsay that perhaps can be disputed. Everyone can hear and see his various bayaans on youtube and elsewhere and determine for themselves that this man does not have the character to be a da'i. No need for complex theological hair-splitting.

I don't think you have read my extensive posts on the analysis of the nass situation. If I was to rehash everything every time all my posts will be prolix in the extreme. I don't defend anybody, but I believe there is a very reasonable case to be made that SKQ is the true successor of SMB. The proofs, although circumstantial, and partly based on a question of whom to trust, are, in my opinion, beyond a reasonable doubt.



HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#107

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:44 pm

Biradar wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:35 pm
HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:14 pm


So because you donot have any defence for SKQ and STF you blame MS s character. Or is it that bec u assume all this so SKQ was the right dai.
As I said, the question of nass can't come up if the person claiming nass does not have the character of a da'i. You made a claim that SKQ did nass on you. Obviously, you were joking, but as you have no standing no one needs to take every such claim seriously. A mazoon making a claim is a very different thing. According to our theology, mazoon can only utter the truth and hence his word is all one really needs. Shehzadas have often conspired against their fathers in the past. In fact, even Imam's children conspired against him often.

Sayedna Hatim has written a book on the character of a da'i and his qualifications. These were not invented by Sayedna Hatim, but were determined during the time of the Imam and were approved by his highest hujjats and da'is. To any objective observer, the character of MS is not that of a da'i. In fact, even an ordinary mumin won't do what MS did: i.e, parade his father like a puppet. I saw this myself and honestly, there can't be words to describe the pain one felt at the disrespect that was shown to SMB. Also, one can evaluate the character of MS for oneself. This is not hearsay that perhaps can be disputed. Everyone can hear and see his various bayaans on youtube and elsewhere and determine for themselves that this man does not have the character to be a da'i. No need for complex theological hair-splitting.

I don't think you have read my extensive posts on the analysis of the nass situation. If I was to rehash everything every time all my posts will be prolix in the extreme. I don't defend anybody, but I believe there is a very reasonable case to be made that SKQ is the true successor of SMB. The proofs, although circumstantial, and partly based on a question of whom to trust, are, in my opinion, beyond a reasonable doubt.
Your fancy words and extensive research is bullshit (sorry to say this) and lacks evidence, not a shred of it. Which kitab of syedna Hatim do you speak of? What qualities did SKQ have from them? No i was not kiddin about the nass. You do not know me and my virtues. If you are to blv the mazoon only i was talking clearly about STF.
If you think Syedna Burhanuddin was carried like a puppet ( nauzobillah ) in full knowledge of it what as a mumin who does mohabbat with ikhlaas would do to help him? For rightnow keep aside what a mansoos should have done?



Biradar
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#108

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:47 pm

HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:23 pm

Not coffins it were the janazah. Please site refrences for Imam Moiz and Imam Aziz zikar that you mention. And do you equate Keeping the janazah on the ice for a couple of hours to embalming and storing for 10 days. I pity you guys for vague examples.
My friend, it is well known that the Imams carried the coffins to Cario. And what is "site"? You mean cite, I think. You should consult al-Maqrizi's history for this, for example.

SKQ had expressed a wish to be buried in India, and that was STF's decision also. Exceptions like this are permitted, and the Imam and, in the absence of the Imam, the da'i al-mutlaq has the authority to determine what to do under such exceptional situations. I gave the example of the Imam transporting his ancestor's coffins across North Africa as an example of an exceptional situation. This is not a vague example, but a very serious and concrete one, well known to everyone (expect perhaps yourself, but I hope you are aware of this now).



HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#109

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:58 pm

Biradar wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:47 pm
HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:23 pm

Not coffins it were the janazah. Please site refrences for Imam Moiz and Imam Aziz zikar that you mention. And do you equate Keeping the janazah on the ice for a couple of hours to embalming and storing for 10 days. I pity you guys for vague examples.
My friend, it is well known that the Imams carried the coffins to Cario. And what is "site"? You mean cite, I think. You should consult al-Maqrizi's history for this, for example.

SKQ had expressed a wish to be buried in India, and that was STF's decision also. Exceptions like this are permitted, and the Imam and, in the absence of the Imam, the da'i al-mutlaq has the authority to determine what to do under such exceptional situations. I gave the example of the Imam transporting his ancestor's coffins across North Africa as an example of an exceptional situation. This is not a vague example, but a very serious and concrete one, well known to everyone (expect perhaps yourself, but I hope you are aware of this now).
Sorry cite. i know everything about al maqrizis history. Imams did not transport other Imams. Also if you feel that the Dai is the authority to fill into other dais body alchoholic fluids and remove the sacred blood in order to transport his body 10 days after freezing it in the morgue in a foreign country, thumps up to you.



Biradar
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#110

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:00 pm

HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:44 pm


Your fancy words and extensive research is bullshit (sorry to say this) and lacks evidence, not a shred of it. Which kitab of syedna Hatim do you speak of? What qualities did SKQ have from them? No i was not kiddin about the nass. You do not know me and my virtues. If you are to blv the mazoon only i was talking clearly about STF.
If you think Syedna Burhanuddin was carried like a puppet ( nauzobillah ) in full knowledge of it what as a mumin who does mohabbat with ikhlaas would do to help him? For rightnow keep aside what a mansoos should have done?
My, my. I think you are about to undergo a meltdown. Please calm down my friend. No need to get overexcited.

I don't need to know you. Your posts here are enough to show what you know and don't and hence your absurd claims are not worth an iota of time.

Also, I encourage you to think and read yourself instead of asking for "site references" all the time. I am not here to educate you, and clearly you are displaying your lack of knowledge and inability to read for yourself. Perviously, extensive quotations from this book have been posted on this forum.

Yes, SMB was carried around like a puppet by his greedy sons. Why is that so hard to believe? Also, often one may want to do many things, to correct wrongs one sees, but there are times to do something and times to keep quiet. In a previous post I mentioned that Molana Ali kept quiet for a very long time, 26 years, while the usurpers were running amok with the Prophet's legacy. So, in your wisdom, should we stop following Ali now? Often, divine providence provides one with proofs that are so incontrovertible that one would be foolish to not accept the evidence of one's own eyes. This was what happened in the last two years of SMB's reign. The community was turned upside down by Muffadul and his brothers and uncles, and his true character came out into the open for everyone to see. You can choose to close your eyes but it makes no difference to the truth it showed anyone who has a brain.



Biradar
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#111

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:06 pm

HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:58 pm
Biradar wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:47 pm


My friend, it is well known that the Imams carried the coffins to Cario. And what is "site"? You mean cite, I think. You should consult al-Maqrizi's history for this, for example.

SKQ had expressed a wish to be buried in India, and that was STF's decision also. Exceptions like this are permitted, and the Imam and, in the absence of the Imam, the da'i al-mutlaq has the authority to determine what to do under such exceptional situations. I gave the example of the Imam transporting his ancestor's coffins across North Africa as an example of an exceptional situation. This is not a vague example, but a very serious and concrete one, well known to everyone (expect perhaps yourself, but I hope you are aware of this now).
Sorry cite. i know everything about al maqrizis history. Imams did not transport other Imams.
No? Then how come they ended being buried up in Cairo, which did not exist before Imam Mu'izz? Where did the previous Imam's pass away? How did Imam Hussain's sacred head end up in Cairo? Please tell us. Did it get transported there by some sort of "beam me up Scotty" magic transport machine?

Anyway, this is getting tiresome. I think you are on the verge of a meltdown. Please calm down a little. Think for yourself and do your own reading.



HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#112

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:10 pm

Biradar wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:00 pm
HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:44 pm


Your fancy words and extensive research is bullshit (sorry to say this) and lacks evidence, not a shred of it. Which kitab of syedna Hatim do you speak of? What qualities did SKQ have from them? No i was not kiddin about the nass. You do not know me and my virtues. If you are to blv the mazoon only i was talking clearly about STF.
If you think Syedna Burhanuddin was carried like a puppet ( nauzobillah ) in full knowledge of it what as a mumin who does mohabbat with ikhlaas would do to help him? For rightnow keep aside what a mansoos should have done?
My, my. I think you are about to undergo a meltdown. Please calm down my friend. No need to get overexcited.

I don't need to know you. Your posts here are enough to show what you know and don't and hence your absurd claims are not worth an iota of time.

Also, I encourage you to think and read yourself instead of asking for "site references" all the time. I am not here to educate you, and clearly you are displaying your lack of knowledge and inability to read for yourself. Perviously, extensive quotations from this book have been posted on this forum.

Yes, SMB was carried around like a puppet by his greedy sons. Why is that so hard to believe? Also, often one may want to do many things, to correct wrongs one sees, but there are times to do something and times to keep quiet. In a previous post I mentioned that Molana Ali kept quiet for a very long time, 26 years, while the usurpers were running amok with the Prophet's legacy. So, in your wisdom, should we stop following Ali now? Often, divine providence provides one with proofs that are so incontrovertible that one would be foolish to not accept the evidence of one's own eyes. This was what happened in the last two years of SMB's reign. The community was turned upside down by Muffadul and his brothers and uncles, and his true character came out into the open for everyone to see. You can choose to close your eyes but it makes no difference to the truth it showed anyone who has a brain.

It is not me who is going to melt down but you who has no answers. You are frustrated. You have no answers. I have proof for everything i have mentioned. You have no answers
Not for the mistakes in the nass letter
Not for embalming
Not about anything else but only about y MS cannot be the dai.

Well Maula Ali did not sit home when Rasulullah needed him.



HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#113

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:11 pm

When Moulana Badrul Jamali saw that Haqq na Sahib appeared to need madad, he rose to the occasion and provided him with his full capacity. He travelled from across the medieval Muslim world with his fleets and armies to aid Imam Mustansir SA. If SKQ was indeed the Mansoos of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA and his ‘most beloved;’ if he was his alleged “second in command;”then why didn’t he rush to the to the aid of Dawat and the Dai at such a crucial moment?

When we look at the battle of Khandaq we remember his words – Moula RA use to say that ‘when ‘Amr b. Abde Wad was able to jump and cross the khandaq and all seemed very dark, during this ‘critical time’ it was only Ameerul Mumineen SA who came to Rasullullah’s aid. The ‘others’ stood idle and mocked Rasullullah SAW saying, “he is sending us to go for battle while staying back himself!”
Self-determination, selflessness, and bravery are all attributes of true madad. It is obligatory on every Mumin in mithaq, “tame Imam ane Imam na Dai ne yaari deso. Tame Imam ane Imam na Dai ne tark yaari to nehi karo.” If Khuzaima indeed saw that Aqa Moula Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA was in peril and being harmed by his children for three years, wasn’t it incumbent on him to come to his Moula’s RA aid and yaari



HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#114

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:13 pm

* When Shaikhun Najdi got members of the Quraish to come and assassinate Rasullullah SAW while he slept, it was Moulana Ali AS who slept in his bed in his place. He thought of Rasullullah SAW and not his own self-preservation at the time and Ameerul Mumineen has said that this incident was one of the seven of his greatest trials in his life.
* In the Battle of Uhud, Rasullullah SAW suffered many losses and he himself was wounded on the battlefield. When the Muslimeen thought they had won, the army dispersed and went to collect the war booty. Rasullullah SAW was left alone and the disbelievers returned and then lead an attack on Rasullullah SAW. During that time, Moulana Ali stayed and said that he would protect Rasullullah SAW. Rasullullah SAW told Moulana Ali to also go and leave- and in reply he said, “Shall I become a kafir after bringing Islam?” Moulana Ali SA defeated the enemies and did not leave Rasullullah alone, an act of such bravery and loyalty that the riwaayats say that Jibra’il came from the skies and said, “This is the true meaning of loyalty,” and “There is no fata (young man) like Ali.” May I remind you – you have alleged that the title of fata also belongs to you.
* Another example – during the Battle of Khandaq, ‘Amr bin Abde Wadd crossed the khandaq dug to protect the people of Medina in which the Muslimeen were quite worried of what would happen next and if they might lose the battle. Burhanuddin Moula RA always called this event “a critical moment” in Islam because ‘Amr bin Abde Wadd was such a fierce warrior and enemy. At that time again, when everyone was worried about their own self-preservation, it was Moulana Ali who stood and said that I will go and fight him. He protected Rasullullah even though it meant his life was in danger. There were others present there at that time who decided not to go and fight ‘Amr bin Abdewadd during this ‘critical moment’ and decided to indulge in their own self-preservation. We all know who they are and there is no need for me to mention that here and on which side of the analogy you fall. I am just not understanding your actions because I for one, would never let my Moula suffer for the thought of my own self-preservation. However, according to your own testimony and allegations against Burhanuddin Moula’s RA family this is exactly what you have done.
* There are not just examples of Moulana Ali which exist- countless Hudood of Dawat sacrificed themselves for Haq na Sahib. For example, Syedi Feerkhan Shujauddin went to the Qayd Khana with Syedna Qutbuddin Shahid RA even though doing so might cause him harm or even death. There was eminent danger there too, no? How about Syedi Musanjee bin Taaj, from my own watan of Baroda. He was put in burning oil while he was protecting his Dai. The first thought of Mumineen has always been to protect Sahib uz Zaman. This is our history and this is our tradition. These are our natural feelings as a community – Moula par fida thawu – not just in words but in reality. It is considered an honor. You might say that your actions were for the preservation of the nufus of Mumineen through your own preservation. .



HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#115

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:14 pm

You chill down a bit bro. Will give you apt answers for everything. Instead of name calling get me some real answers.



Biradar
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#116

Unread post by Biradar » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:02 pm

HJK wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:11 pm
When Moulana Badrul Jamali saw that Haqq na Sahib appeared to need madad, he rose to the occasion and provided him with his full capacity. He travelled from across the medieval Muslim world with his fleets and armies to aid Imam Mustansir SA. If SKQ was indeed the Mansoos of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA and his ‘most beloved;’ if he was his alleged “second in command;”then why didn’t he rush to the to the aid of Dawat and the Dai at such a crucial moment?
I think you are about as much of a fanatic as MS. First, why was Imam Mustansir in need of aid in the first place? Was he not the imam and hence capable of taking care of himself? Why did Badrul Jamali need to come to rescue the imam? How come no one came to the aid of Imam Tayeib after the assassination of Imam Aamir? Why did he have to go into seclusion? Why did Ali not destroy all the usurpers after the Prophet died? Why did Imam Hassan abdicate? Why did Imam Hussain choose to sacrifice himself?

And, you think SKQ had armies? You think there would not be open riots and further desecration of SMB, trauma to the community if SKQ had tried to oppose MS? One saw what happened after the death of SMB. The gatherings to pray for SMB turned into a lanaat fest, signatures were taken forcibly, people caused commotion and riots, effigies were burned, and followers of SKQ were harassed and, in some cased, even beaten.

I think you are watching too many Netflix shows. Depending on the time, different actions are possible. One does not need to always be a swashbuckling hero all the time.

Also, in one way SKQ did come to the rescue of the dawaat and the da'i. He worked towards establishing a foundation that would allow the true dawaat to flourish. He ensured that after SMB, when the fitna of Muffadal and his uncles would come out in the open, there was a place where the true dawaat would flourish. Perhaps the words of Ali from Nahaj-al Balagha will help you understand:
Beware! By Allah, the son of Abu Quhafah (Abu Bakr) dressed himself with it (the caliphate) and he certainly knew that my position in relation to it was the same as the position of the axis in relation to the hand-mill. The flood water flows down from me and the bird cannot fly upto me. I put a curtain against the caliphate and kept myself detached from it.

Then I began to think whether I should assault or endure calmly the blinding darkness of tribulations wherein the grown up are made feeble and the young grow old and the true believer acts under strain till he meets Allah (on his death).

I found that endurance thereon was wiser. So I adopted patience although there was pricking in the eye and suffocation (of mortification) in the throat. I watched the plundering of my inheritance till the first one went his way but handed over the Caliphate to Ibn al-Khattab after himself.

...

Nevertheless, I remained patient despite length of period and stiffness of trial ...
Can you explain why Ali remained patient and did not assault Abu Bakar? Was he a coward? Why did he not force the matter? Why?

Also, I will not be engaging you any more. Please don't get your blood-pressure up. You can believe what you wish, and it is clear nothing will convince you. As such it is pointless arguing. Best of luck!



HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#117

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:27 pm

No answers again. People with brains will dfntly read the arguements and knw. You will not rather you cannot engage with me because you have no answers.

He ensured that AFTER SMB, this is what skq did. He ensured the dawat to flourish after his naas passed away, rather he ensured it!!! Funny. He did not help SMB but he rather worked for the dawat after his passing away. You rather proved everything.

If the entire Dawat has been led to believe that Syedna was doing these acts on his own accord, with his own free will and they were UNAWARE of Moula’s troubles, and SKQ and his folk were the only ones who knew otherwise, who knew the TRUTH, that Moula, na’uwzobillah, was being used and hijacked, that he was in pain and discomfort, it was their OBLIGATION AND RESPONSIBILITY, not only as an alleged mansoos, but as even a Mumin, to rectify the situation and come to the aid of their Moula no matter what obstacles were in their way and no matter what the perceived consequences on his person or property. What Mumin would knowingly watch what he claims was torture, hijacking, and abuse of their Moula? On top of this, Khuzaima has the audacity to say that it was he who was doing sabr?
Have you any zikr of any mansoos doing this to a naas. Helping is far from thinking but running away, oh i mean rather doing sabr when actually in problem was the naas.

I can again answer everything from yor post above but it will be a waste of time.



HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#118

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:28 pm

Ali a .s was not patient in time of Rasululah. Not when Rasululah needed him. Do you understand the difference you thick skull.



HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#119

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:31 pm

it was the year 466/467H. The era of the 18th Imam Mustansir Billah AS. A dark shadow was cast upon the Fatimi dynasty. It was under the constant threat of corrupted viziers misusing their powers for their own political gain. Unable to fulfill their insatiable appetites, food stocks depleted and people suffered. Cairo was on the brink of a civil war. A man named Baladkawsh (a Turkish warlord) took siege of the city. No one was allowed to enter or leave Cairo.
In this critical time, Imam Mustansir AS called out to his most trusted Ameer al Juyush (leader of the armies), Syedna Badr al Jamali RA, and summoned him to Cairo at once.
On receiving this news, Syedna Badr al Jamali gathered his armies, horses, weapons, and warships and set out from Armenia (Rūm) to Cairo. The seas were rough and treacherous. No man besides himself would dare to sail upon them, but he was driven by his khaalis niyyat and seeking the ta‘at of the Imam, in the name of Dawat. He reached Cairo and took control of the city within one night and power was restored. He reached the hazrat of the Imam and was blessed with his deedar, and was given the title of “Saif al Islam” (the sword of Islam). 



HJK
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:20 am

#120

Unread post by HJK » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:35 pm

He could have helped SMB in alot of ways
Why didn’t he exercise his political, legal and media clout (which he clearly has at his disposal) to make this a reality? Surely he could have done this for the 52nd Dai, for whom he claims to be his most loyal and beloved successor.