March 1 - Black Day: Galiyakot atrocity

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Humsafar
Posts: 2495
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

March 1 - Black Day: Galiyakot atrocity

#1

Unread post by Humsafar » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:01 pm

On this day in 1973 Bohras from Udaipur were attacked in Galiyakot in the presence of Sayedna Mohammed Burhannudin who is reported to have witnessed the beatings and did nothing. That day we in Udaipur recognised that our Mola whom we worshipped had feet of clay, that he was part of the problem, that he was the top honcho under whose aegis the oppression and exploitation of the community was taking place. That was the beginning of the revolt against the mafia clergy. That was the beginning of the latest chapter of reform. In more than 40 years since, the community has regressed to a degree where we have a semi-literate clown for a leader who has turned the community into a circus and ordinary Bohras into jokers. We have strayed as far as possible fro Islam in our worship of a demigod, and there is no hope on the horizon.

Unfortunately, the reform movement has nothing much to show for either. The initial promise and euphoria has petered out and we have settled into an comfortable ennuie, content with our little fiefdoms of revolt in Udaipur (mainly) and other places. Together we are of not much consequence. The reasons of our failure are many - lack of resources, fewer numbers, scattered and divided, unable to match the financial and political clout of the Kothar. But in my view, the biggest drawback is the lack of support from the rest of community. In all these years I have recognised that the change cannot be forced from the outside. Unless and until people are willing to make a change, unless and until they have the courage to take risks and are prepared to makes sacrifices nothing will change. We reformists can provide them support and knowledge and tactics etc. but the initiative must come from within.

The reform movement showed the beacon but nobody followed. I think this inability to change our situation has to do with our peculiar Bohra mentality, the social structure of our community, the grip of the wily mafia clergy, and ultimately the deep-seated pessimism of Bohras that nothing could be done. And ironically, we are the faithfuls of Mola Ali and Imam Hussain who never settled for any injustice and wrong doing.

So, what next?

The reform movement, or whatever is left of it, will trundle along listlessly as it has been doing for the past couple of decades. It poses not threat to the mafia. The biggest threat Mufaddal faces is from the Qutbis which are only a little santiized version the draconian kothar. The two rivals are fighting for the untold wealth of the community (the nass drama is only a front for public consumption), and how that cookie crumbles will determine the fortunes of the community. But given the Bohras's gheta mentality I'm not holding my breath.



momeenbhai
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:31 am

#2

Unread post by momeenbhai » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:18 pm

Excellent write up.

PDB failed mostly because they went against basis sunnah like beard and rida.

this played an important role which gave chance to mafia clergy to draw you guys as munafiq and firela.

they portrayed you like you are against the Islam itself and the whole corruption point went mute.

even today your majlis pics are full of dhadhi mundela and your woman is still not understanding basics of hijab/rida. this gave mafias a very good chance to look you guys in bad light.



bohra_manus
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:37 pm

#3

Unread post by bohra_manus » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:20 pm

momeenbhai wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:18 pm
Excellent write up.

PDB failed mostly because they went against basis sunnah like beard and rida.

this played an important role which gave chance to mafia clergy to draw you guys as munafiq and firela.

they portrayed you like you are against the Islam itself and the whole corruption point went mute.

even today your majlis pics are full of dhadhi mundela and your woman is still not understanding basics of hijab/rida. this gave mafias a very good chance to look you guys in bad light.
My understanding was keeping beard was sunnat of Rasulallah, not compulsory, so why did SMB one day woke up and decided to make it compulsory? It was fine when during the regime of STS and even first 20-25 years of SMB's daiship.



momeenbhai
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:31 am

#4

Unread post by momeenbhai » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:12 am

sunnah doesnt mean it should be taken lightly, also rida isnt sunna but fard on all muslim women.

they played basis on this and won.



Mkenya
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

#5

Unread post by Mkenya » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:46 pm

Humsafar: What a magnificent write-up. I commend you.



Ozdundee
Posts: 833
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

#6

Unread post by Ozdundee » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:23 am

I would state.

The FGM movement dragging SMS in 2 major countries through court cases and 6 other countries actively investigating led by motivated ragtag reformists a few in Americas Australia one or 2 in India mainly from the west and Sahiyo and the brains behind the scenes hats off when the time was right they were all hands on the deck...kothar was drained the power and clout. The combined forces of reform and female activists merged.

FD joined the FGM cause at the 11th hour when the case was turning against SMS. I am trying to measure where all the reformists arrived before or after the party.

Udaipur reformists were approached repeatedly for assistance ...in seeking translators copies. Fortunately the legal teams were resourceful and found and built their own capability to translate.

FD is reaping the benefit of a very weakened SMS in public eye. SMS ideology is threatened by FD but they are not resourced to take them holous bolous. Where FD can exploit is if they were to take an overt public stand SMS would be really on a back foot with western non Bohra public remaining agnostic.

Money can buy influence in the corrupt countries but FGM will remain a stamp of hypocrisy. Until FGM is totally eradicated that stain will keep on haunting.

One day a book and movie will be made.



Udaipuri
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 5:01 am

#7

Unread post by Udaipuri » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:23 pm

momeenbhai wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:18 pm
Excellent write up.

PDB failed mostly because they went against basis sunnah like beard and rida.

this played an important role which gave chance to mafia clergy to draw you guys as munafiq and firela.

they portrayed you like you are against the Islam itself and the whole corruption point went mute.

even today your majlis pics are full of dhadhi mundela and your woman is still not understanding basics of hijab/rida. this gave mafias a very good chance to look you guys in bad light.
Your argument is very simplistic. Dhadi and hijab are minor factors and came much later in play. The basic point is that Bohras, as Humsafar says, lack guts. We are a "su karsu" community, we will sit on our hands and let these mullahs screw us over and over but still not utter a word of protest. Reminds me of shair in Jagjeet Singh's ghazal:
Woh bedardi say sar kaatey Ameer,
Or mai kahu unsay
Huzoor! Ahista, Ahista, Janab! Ahista.



Udaipuri
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 5:01 am

#8

Unread post by Udaipuri » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:33 pm

Ozdundee wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:23 am
I would state.

The FGM movement dragging SMS in 2 major countries through court cases and 6 other countries actively investigating led by motivated ragtag reformists a few in Americas Australia one or 2 in India mainly from the west and Sahiyo and the brains behind the scenes hats off when the time was right they were all hands on the deck...kothar was drained the power and clout. The combined forces of reform and female activists merged.

FD joined the FGM cause at the 11th hour when the case was turning against SMS. I am trying to measure where all the reformists arrived before or after the party.

Udaipur reformists were approached repeatedly for assistance ...in seeking translators copies. Fortunately the legal teams were resourceful and found and built their own capability to translate.

FD is reaping the benefit of a very weakened SMS in public eye. SMS ideology is threatened by FD but they are not resourced to take them holous bolous. Where FD can exploit is if they were to take an overt public stand SMS would be really on a back foot with western non Bohra public remaining agnostic.

Money can buy influence in the corrupt countries but FGM will remain a stamp of hypocrisy. Until FGM is totally eradicated that stain will keep on haunting.

One day a book and movie will be made.
Brother Ozdundee I'm having a hard time understanding the point of your comment. What are you trying to say?



momeenbhai
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:31 am

#9

Unread post by momeenbhai » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:09 am

Udaipuri wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:23 pm
momeenbhai wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:18 pm
Excellent write up.

PDB failed mostly because they went against basis sunnah like beard and rida.

this played an important role which gave chance to mafia clergy to draw you guys as munafiq and firela.

they portrayed you like you are against the Islam itself and the whole corruption point went mute.

even today your majlis pics are full of dhadhi mundela and your woman is still not understanding basics of hijab/rida. this gave mafias a very good chance to look you guys in bad light.
Your argument is very simplistic. Dhadi and hijab are minor factors and came much later in play. The basic point is that Bohras, as Humsafar says, lack guts. We are a "su karsu" community, we will sit on our hands and let these mullahs screw us over and over but still not utter a word of protest. Reminds me of shair in Jagjeet Singh's ghazal:
Woh bedardi say sar kaatey Ameer,
Or mai kahu unsay
Huzoor! Ahista, Ahista, Janab! Ahista.
taking sunnah lightly made PDB movement paid heavily. please try to understand the impact of not following sunnah and trying to fight with those who superficially follows.



dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 500
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

#10

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:24 pm

momeenbhai wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:12 am
sunnah doesnt mean it should be taken lightly, also rida isnt sunna but fard on all muslim women.

they played basis on this and won.
I am asking respectfully:

Isn't there a difference of opinion in-terms of whether rida is compulsory? Dressing modestly for men and women is incumbent on all mumineen, as best as I understand it.

But does dressing modestly necessarily mean a rida? After all, rida is a bohra modification.



Humsafar
Posts: 2495
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

#11

Unread post by Humsafar » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:59 pm

dal-chaval-palidu wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:24 pm

I am asking respectfully:

Isn't there a difference of opinion in-terms of whether rida is compulsory? Dressing modestly for men and women is incumbent on all mumineen, as best as I understand it.

But does dressing modestly necessarily mean a rida? After all, rida is a bohra modification.
This momeenbhai is stuck on the sunnah record, as if the mafia clergy actually cares about sunnah! All they care about is the absolue control of Bohras and their minds. Rida and dhadi were just the god send tools that helped/helps them with their agenda.

You are right, dressing modestly for women AND men is the basic Quranic principle. What is modest is defined by the society and culture you live in. But to impose a particular dress code is an age-old authoritarian and patriarchal streak that is common to all relgions and cultures. The mafia clergy, as bohra_manus pointed out above, got in on the game pretty late in the day. And are now exploiting it to the hilt.

@Mkenya, thank you for your kind words.



dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 500
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

#12

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:50 pm

Humsafar wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:01 pm

.......................

Unfortunately, the reform movement has nothing much to show for either. The initial promise and euphoria has petered out and we have settled into an comfortable ennuie, content with our little fiefdoms of revolt in Udaipur (mainly) and other places. Together we are of not much consequence. The reasons of our failure are many - lack of resources, fewer numbers, scattered and divided, unable to match the financial and political clout of the Kothar. But in my view, the biggest drawback is the lack of support from the rest of community. In all these years I have recognised that the change cannot be forced from the outside. Unless and until people are willing to make a change, unless and until they have the courage to take risks and are prepared to makes sacrifices nothing will change. We reformists can provide them support and knowledge and tactics etc. but the initiative must come from within.

The reform movement showed the beacon but nobody followed. I think this inability to change our situation has to do with our peculiar Bohra mentality, the social structure of our community, the grip of the wily mafia clergy, and ultimately the deep-seated pessimism of Bohras that nothing could be done. And ironically, we are the faithfuls of Mola Ali and Imam Hussain who never settled for any injustice and wrong doing.

So, what next?

The reform movement, or whatever is left of it, will trundle along listlessly as it has been doing for the past couple of decades. It poses not threat to the mafia. The biggest threat Mufaddal faces is from the Qutbis which are only a little santiized version the draconian kothar. The two rivals are fighting for the untold wealth of the community (the nass drama is only a front for public consumption), and how that cookie crumbles will determine the fortunes of the community. But given the Bohras's gheta mentality I'm not holding my breath.
Br. Humsafar,

You are being too harsh on yourself. The reform movement will remain as one effort in the direction of reform, whatever happens in the future. And the people of that struggle, and their sacrifices, are to be acknowledged.

Consider the Indian independence struggle.

There was the "rebellion of 1857". India did not get independence right away, but does that mean it failed? Did those people die in vain? I don't think so. They made their contributions and people built on it. Then there was the Partition of Bengal (1905), and the protests against it. Then non-cooperation movement, Dandi March, Quit India movement, rise of violent protests (Bhagat Singh, Azad Hind fauj), etc.

A weakened Britain (after WW2) decided that it was "not worth it" and granted India independence. All the above events contributed.

Similarly, the reform movement has made and continues to make its contribution to reform in the community. I know the community has become more conservative, but who knows, optimistically, it is darkest before dawn.

I end with the following quote from Shabana Azmi

"When I asked him ( her dad, the poet Kafi Azmi) about these frustrations, he told me something that has now become my mantra—when you’re working for change, you should be prepared for the possibility that change might not occur within your lifetime. It helps me tide over times."



bohraji
Posts: 244
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 4:01 am

#13

Unread post by bohraji » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:36 am

We can go onto put blames and triumph over the little victories. But the blinkers should be removed and reality should be accepted.The truth is that the PDB movement has failed as the people frustrated with the main community have gone the sunni way,few have joined the twelvers and a few perhaps have joined the Qutbis. Many are frustrated but then a lot more are in favour and happy and true to their beleif systems. The Dai is presented as the saviour and they are convinced that he will take them to jannat.

Remember it is two generations of strong brain washing. The community is more introvert then ever. Thali, jamans ,ashura, milads, taabudaat ,etc keep them within the fold and very ,very busy. Sabaq attendees have multiplied manifold and they are made to beleive that the true islam is obedience to the dai. The rest are labelled as jungli horses that are doomed. Daily messages of misdoings and corruption on whats app have failed to dislodge the faith of a single beliver. My own friends are basking in the glory of fancy titles purchased by their new found wealth ,there is competetion within as who would become the next shaikh and run to Mumbai when ever there is a chance for a nikah, misak that can be performed by the dai.

These same people are totally against giving anything away to charity even if it means a few rupees to buy a fellow bohra a single days medicines. They are in a bubble and believe that the kothar is ready to provide food,housing and health care at the Saifee Hospital. Perhaps it is that they do not want to believe anything else.One can awaken a sleeping person but not someone pretending to sleep. Surprisingly some of my own blood have baraated me on their own for the views that I hold . I tried to remind them last Ramzaan to be careful to whom to give their zakaat to, I showed them pictures of the dai being paraded on a palkhi during Muharram, they answered back by saying that it is a kind of transport.

Their belief system has allowed them to take the speech of Badri Lacewala as being OK.The sabaqs have strayed them away from tauheed and by the next generation the Dai will be portrayed openly as ilah ul ardh. No logic works on them,any translation of the Quran is considered unworthy, earlier these same people would attend the majlises of the twelvers ,but it has stopped now due to high repercussions so knowledge is the monopoly of the dai alone. Yet there is a prominent shaikh who regularly but secretly helps to the cause that was started a few years ago and perhaps there are others with the same conscience as well.Lets see what happens next



_Zulfikaar_
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:16 am

#14

Unread post by _Zulfikaar_ » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:53 am

I pray you understand this one question of mine which will answer all your questions!!
Do you think that Muffy has the talent to rule gullible masses or do you think the masses want someone to put on a pedestal and worship ?

Since moses and the golden calf nothing has changed.
The kothar is not responsible for oppressing people the people are for being oppressed.

And as for the falling numbers more educated and intellectual people usually have less kids...



momeenbhai
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:31 am

#15

Unread post by momeenbhai » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:43 am

dal-chaval-palidu wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:24 pm
momeenbhai wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:12 am
sunnah doesnt mean it should be taken lightly, also rida isnt sunna but fard on all muslim women.

they played basis on this and won.
I am asking respectfully:

Isn't there a difference of opinion in-terms of whether rida is compulsory? Dressing modestly for men and women is incumbent on all mumineen, as best as I understand it.

But does dressing modestly necessarily mean a rida? After all, rida is a bohra modification.
if PDB is calling them self bohra then there is no problem to wear bohra dress or rida.



momeenbhai
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:31 am

#16

Unread post by momeenbhai » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:44 am

_Zulfikaar_ wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:53 am
I pray you understand this one question of mine which will answer all your questions!!
Do you think that Muffy has the talent to rule gullible masses or do you think the masses want someone to put on a pedestal and worship ?

Since moses and the golden calf nothing has changed.
The kothar is not responsible for oppressing people the people are for being oppressed.

And as for the falling numbers more educated and intellectual people usually have less kids...
you have a point here, kothar is just a tool and they have no much control, its the people who are willingly giving them control.



Humsafar
Posts: 2495
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

#17

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:33 am

_Zulfikaar_ wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:53 am
I pray you understand this one question of mine which will answer all your questions!!
Do you think that Muffy has the talent to rule gullible masses or do you think the masses want someone to put on a pedestal and worship ?

Since moses and the golden calf nothing has changed.
The kothar is not responsible for oppressing people the people are for being oppressed.

And as for the falling numbers more educated and intellectual people usually have less kids...
True, in essence not much has changed since Moses and the golden calf. But I do not think that people are there to be oppressed or willingly want to be oppressed. This is the classic example of blaming the victim. It's like saying people willingly offered themselves to be colonised by the British; that the Africans had the desire to be enslaved by white colonisers; that native Americans invited Europeans to invade their lands and massacre them; that Palestinians love the idea of being occupied and oppressed by Zionists. You get the drift. My friend, it's not that simple. Wherever there is oppression there is also resistance and also the unspeakable violence by those who wield power to crush that resistance.

The desire to be free is an inherent, core human value. And the enemies of humanity, the despots of all varieties - political and religious - have the inherent urge to crush that desire. Human history is nothing but a clash of these two powerful forces. And since history is always written by the victors, all we learn is about kings and conquests but very little about peoples' struggles and their sacrifices.

That said, the human condition has much to with this endless struggle. We come into this world without a template to follow, the gap is filled by religion and ideologies to provide that template. People need to believe in things to make sense of their life. Preachers and politicians create a make-believe world to fill that need. Controlling the human mind and their destinies is the next logical step. When people fail to think for themselves they fall victim to the persuasion and coercion of charlatans.

Mufaddal is one of them. The point is not whether he has the talent or not to control bohras. He has just inherited a flock that is completely pliant and unthinking, made so by generations of brainwashing. Bohras have been socialised into believing in and accepting the supreme authority of the Dai. That he is their benefactor, protector and ultimate guarantor of their safe passage to heaven is their make-believe world. There are host of other factors - discussed on this forum ad nauseam - that make bohras what they are: docile, gullible, spineless, choosing the path of least resistance, intellectually lazy, socially conservative and politically rightist etc etc.

And don't forget, this is the age of evil idiots in positions of power: Trump, Modi, Mufaddal are all of a piece. And people who do not buy into their idiocy are resisting and always will. The human spirit is unsuprressable.



Ozdundee
Posts: 833
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:57 am

#18

Unread post by Ozdundee » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:24 pm

Bhai.

We cannot change the past but you can change the future.

Simple . Udaipur and Mumbai reformists ...with your money and people power in the thousands go support the women activists who are trying to change the India laws to ban FGM .

Udaipuri wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:33 pm
Ozdundee wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:23 am
I would state.

The FGM movement dragging SMS in 2 major countries through court cases and 6 other countries actively investigating led by motivated ragtag reformists a few in Americas Australia one or 2 in India mainly from the west and Sahiyo and the brains behind the scenes hats off when the time was right they were all hands on the deck...kothar was drained the power and clout. The combined forces of reform and female activists merged.

FD joined the FGM cause at the 11th hour when the case was turning against SMS. I am trying to measure where all the reformists arrived before or after the party.

Udaipur reformists were approached repeatedly for assistance ...in seeking translators copies. Fortunately the legal teams were resourceful and found and built their own capability to translate.

FD is reaping the benefit of a very weakened SMS in public eye. SMS ideology is threatened by FD but they are not resourced to take them holous bolous. Where FD can exploit is if they were to take an overt public stand SMS would be really on a back foot with western non Bohra public remaining agnostic.

Money can buy influence in the corrupt countries but FGM will remain a stamp of hypocrisy. Until FGM is totally eradicated that stain will keep on haunting.

One day a book and movie will be made.
Brother Ozdundee I'm having a hard time understanding the point of your comment. What are you trying to say?