Bohras and Shia centers

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
babdeen
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:07 pm

Bohras and Shia centers

#1

Unread post by babdeen » Tue May 21, 2019 3:55 pm

Over last few decades number of Bohras participating in local Shia centers in USA has been steadily increasing. These Shia centers provide better services and lectures tend to be far more educating and relevant to the occasion.

My personal experience is as follows:
(1) The services are conducted in four languages (Urdu, Farsi, Arabic, and English) and a fifth room is for children’s education for the event. Scholars from all over the world are invited during Ramzan, Muharram, and other special occasions to speak and discuss significance of the event.
(2) Given the cultural, language diversity, these centers are very welcoming and open to people of all Shia beliefs.
(3) These centers are run under elected board with full accounting for all monetary and other donations.
(4) The centers tend to engage in charity and support for poor and needy amongst members and at times beyond to the entire community.
(5) For me these centers provide all the religious services I need. I also find they are much more in sink with Ali and Husain’s teachings than either of the Dais.

I suggest Bohras support and participate in local Shia centers for religious needs.

All comments and experiences with Shia centers are welcome.

zinger
Posts: 1969
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#2

Unread post by zinger » Wed May 22, 2019 12:43 am

babdeen wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:55 pm
Over last few decades number of Bohras participating in local Shia centers in USA has been steadily increasing. These Shia centers provide better services and lectures tend to be far more educating and relevant to the occasion.

My personal experience is as follows:
(1) The services are conducted in four languages (Urdu, Farsi, Arabic, and English) and a fifth room is for children’s education for the event. Scholars from all over the world are invited during Ramzan, Muharram, and other special occasions to speak and discuss significance of the event.
(2) Given the cultural, language diversity, these centers are very welcoming and open to people of all Shia beliefs.
(3) These centers are run under elected board with full accounting for all monetary and other donations.
(4) The centers tend to engage in charity and support for poor and needy amongst members and at times beyond to the entire community.
(5) For me these centers provide all the religious services I need. I also find they are much more in sink with Ali and Husain’s teachings than either of the Dais.

I suggest Bohras support and participate in local Shia centers for religious needs.

All comments and experiences with Shia centers are welcome.
Thats true. In Mumbai, we get a channel called WIN (World Islamic Network).
During Muharrum, after coming back from the majlis in the evening, i switch to this channel.
There are some exemplary speakers there like Hassan Ali Rajab Ali, Maulana Mohammad Ali Naqvi, Maulana Asif Raza Zaidi and many more.
not only are they wonderful orators, they also demonstrate a lot of knowledge.
There was one more too, who died recently, either in late 2018 or early 2019, i cant remember his name

They have wonderful education programs during Ramzan too, such a pleasure to watch.

Mkenya
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#3

Unread post by Mkenya » Wed May 22, 2019 12:57 am

I performed my Hajj with a group of Shias from the US and I must say the experience was wonderful. The tour was professionally handled and, unlike with Bohris, there was no coercion for donations or salaams. Two weeks ago I did ziarat of Iran and Iraq with another group of Shias from the US which was eqaully enjoyable. I regularly watch Muharram lectures on Azadari.com which offers an excellent selection of orators.

zinger
Posts: 1969
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#4

Unread post by zinger » Thu May 23, 2019 12:35 am

Mkenya wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 12:57 am
I performed my Hajj with a group of Shias from the US and I must say the experience was wonderful. The tour was professionally handled and, unlike with Bohris, there was no coercion for donations or salaams. Two weeks ago I did ziarat of Iran and Iraq with another group of Shias from the US which was eqaully enjoyable. I regularly watch Muharram lectures on Azadari.com which offers an excellent selection of orators.
LIKED
(no like button, hence this :) )

seeker110
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#5

Unread post by seeker110 » Thu May 23, 2019 12:18 pm

I prefer doing it on my own, some hardships but much rewarding . Packages nah

Shafakat
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:16 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#6

Unread post by Shafakat » Thu May 23, 2019 3:12 pm

babdeen wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:55 pm
Over last few decades number of Bohras participating in local Shia centers in USA has been steadily increasing. These Shia centers provide better services and lectures tend to be far more educating and relevant to the occasion.

My personal experience is as follows:
(1) The services are conducted in four languages (Urdu, Farsi, Arabic, and English) and a fifth room is for children’s education for the event. Scholars from all over the world are invited during Ramzan, Muharram, and other special occasions to speak and discuss significance of the event.
(2) Given the cultural, language diversity, these centers are very welcoming and open to people of all Shia beliefs.
(3) These centers are run under elected board with full accounting for all monetary and other donations.
(4) The centers tend to engage in charity and support for poor and needy amongst members and at times beyond to the entire community.
(5) For me these centers provide all the religious services I need. I also find they are much more in sink with Ali and Husain’s teachings than either of the Dais.

I suggest Bohras support and participate in local Shia centers for religious needs.

All comments and experiences with Shia centers are welcome.
I agree. We go to Shia centers regularly. We are very welcome there and in few years we have a learned a lot more about the religion and Alehbait.

zinger
Posts: 1969
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#7

Unread post by zinger » Fri May 24, 2019 12:29 am

Shafakat wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 3:12 pm
babdeen wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:55 pm
Over last few decades number of Bohras participating in local Shia centers in USA has been steadily increasing. These Shia centers provide better services and lectures tend to be far more educating and relevant to the occasion.

My personal experience is as follows:
(1) The services are conducted in four languages (Urdu, Farsi, Arabic, and English) and a fifth room is for children’s education for the event. Scholars from all over the world are invited during Ramzan, Muharram, and other special occasions to speak and discuss significance of the event.
(2) Given the cultural, language diversity, these centers are very welcoming and open to people of all Shia beliefs.
(3) These centers are run under elected board with full accounting for all monetary and other donations.
(4) The centers tend to engage in charity and support for poor and needy amongst members and at times beyond to the entire community.
(5) For me these centers provide all the religious services I need. I also find they are much more in sink with Ali and Husain’s teachings than either of the Dais.

I suggest Bohras support and participate in local Shia centers for religious needs.

All comments and experiences with Shia centers are welcome.
I agree. We go to Shia centers regularly. We are very welcome there and in few years we have a learned a lot more about the religion and Alehbait.
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salim
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#8

Unread post by salim » Fri May 24, 2019 5:10 pm

babdeen wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:55 pm
Over last few decades number of Bohras participating in local Shia centers in USA has been steadily increasing. These Shia centers provide better services and lectures tend to be far more educating and relevant to the occasion.
I have been to sunni mosque many times. I have never been to shia mosque. What do you have to do to get into the center, is there a need to register? Will they be ok if they find out I am an ismaili?

Mkenya
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#9

Unread post by Mkenya » Fri May 24, 2019 8:59 pm

Bro. Salim
I regularly attend the local Sunni mosque for Jumaa and during Ramadhan also the Zohr and Asr prayers. I have not attended any Shia mosques but I am sure if you befriend some Shia or go their mosque they will welcome you.
I am aware of many card-carrying Bohras who attend lectures of visiting Shia orators during Muharram. They attest that the lectures are very informative without drama and not interrupted with maatam or praise to past or present Irani or Iraqi clerics.

Mkenya
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#10

Unread post by Mkenya » Fri May 24, 2019 9:16 pm

To Seeker
The main reason I chose a group to go with was because of its exceptional organisational ability, first class acoomodation and food, conducted by urdu-speaking Mullahs, surface travelling in excellent coaches, medical team and punctuality. The visas for both Iraq and Iran and the air tickets were received weeks before departure. No doubt you like challenges and that can be more rewarding. May Allah bless you.

AMAFHH
Posts: 274
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:19 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#11

Unread post by AMAFHH » Sat May 25, 2019 3:26 am

Sallam O Alaikum
In india also many bohris are converted to Shia ithnasheri faith ,

salim
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#12

Unread post by salim » Sat May 25, 2019 6:18 pm

Mkenya wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 8:59 pm
Bro. Salim
I regularly attend the local Sunni mosque for Jumaa and during Ramadhan also the Zohr and Asr prayers. I have not attended any Shia mosques but I am sure if you befriend some Shia or go their mosque they will welcome you.
I am aware of many card-carrying Bohras who attend lectures of visiting Shia orators during Muharram. They attest that the lectures are very informative without drama and not interrupted with maatam or praise to past or present Irani or Iraqi clerics.
Thank you!

SBM
Posts: 6229
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#13

Unread post by SBM » Sat May 25, 2019 6:53 pm

Br Salim
Are you in USA? if so please PM me and depending where you live, I can try to get you the contact I do attend both Sunni and Shia Mosques in Florida and fortunately, in our part of town both communities frequent each other's Mosque and they work together on many issues including Open House Iftar during Ramadan,
In Orlando area there is a brand new Shia Mosque called Al Hayee Mosque where a great number of Sunni members attend Friday and some of them even make their own Jamaat without any issues from Shia members

Mkenya
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#14

Unread post by Mkenya » Tue May 28, 2019 12:38 am

Br. SBM
It is heartening to learn of Sunni/Shia interaction in Florida and I am sure such would also be taking place in other parts of the US. My take on this topic is that this would only occur in the US and Canada because newcomers, 2nd. and 3rd. generation have rid themselves of the cloak of 'back-home' traditions and values(?); if one can call them that. The following ashaar are fitting to this topic - Author unknown.

Dedi azaan masjidon mein "Hayya alas salah"
Aur likh diya bahar board par andar na aaye falan aur falan

Khauf hota hai shaitan ko bhi aaj ke mussalman ko dhek kar
Namaaz bhi padhta hai to masjid ka naam dekh kar

Mussalmano ke har firke ne eik dusre ko kafir kaha
Ek kafir hi hain jo usne hum sabhko mussalman kaha


allbird
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#16

Unread post by allbird » Wed May 29, 2019 7:18 am

Salam Bro Salim,

I was involved with Shia Isna-Ashari imambargarh of few years, when i went first day i was wearing bohra topi but no one even asked me any question. One old pakistani men did asked me if i was bohra and replied yes, that's it since that day no one really had / has any query about my background. I was offered front seating position. Welcomed for food, Tea everything. There was another bohra bhai use to visit too who used to write poems in shaan on Imam Husain so he was given a permanent slot before moharram majlis to recite his writing.
Shia's world wide whether in India, Iraq or Iran they don't care if you are bohra or sunni all are welcome for Gham-e-Husain.

On other hand Sunni's did express discomfort while i was praying my namaz with open hands. They wanted me to form Jamaat and fold hands while praying.

In short Shia of Moula Ali AS are better option for me.

salim
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#17

Unread post by salim » Wed May 29, 2019 5:04 pm

SBM wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 6:53 pm
Br Salim
Are you in USA? if so please PM me and depending where you live, I can try to get you the contact I do attend both Sunni and Shia Mosques in Florida and fortunately, in our part of town both communities frequent each other's Mosque and they work together on many issues including Open House Iftar during Ramadan,
In Orlando area there is a brand new Shia Mosque called Al Hayee Mosque where a great number of Sunni members attend Friday and some of them even make their own Jamaat without any issues from Shia members
:) Very nice. You gave me courage. I will inshallah go to a Shia mosque this week.

Thank you for the information.

salim
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 4:01 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#18

Unread post by salim » Wed May 29, 2019 5:12 pm

allbird wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 7:18 am
Salam Bro Salim,

I was involved with Shia Isna-Ashari imambargarh of few years, when i went first day i was wearing bohra topi but no one even asked me any question. One old pakistani men did asked me if i was bohra and replied yes, that's it since that day no one really had / has any query about my background. I was offered front seating position. Welcomed for food, Tea everything. There was another bohra bhai use to visit too who used to write poems in shaan on Imam Husain so he was given a permanent slot before moharram majlis to recite his writing.
Shia's world wide whether in India, Iraq or Iran they don't care if you are Bohra or Sunni all are welcome for Gham-e-Husain.

On the other hand, Sunni's did express discomfort while i was praying my namaz with open hands. They wanted me to form Jamaat and fold hands while praying.

In short Shia of Moula Ali AS are better option for me.
Thank you for your feedback. I will try to go to the Shia mosque this Friday. I have been to many Sunni mosques. Some are strict like you said. The mosque I use to go more often was very welcoming and I never had the issue of praying with open hands.

zinger
Posts: 1969
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#19

Unread post by zinger » Thu May 30, 2019 12:32 am

allbird wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 7:18 am
Salam Bro Salim,

I was involved with Shia Isna-Ashari imambargarh of few years, when i went first day i was wearing bohra topi but no one even asked me any question. One old pakistani men did asked me if i was bohra and replied yes, that's it since that day no one really had / has any query about my background. I was offered front seating position. Welcomed for food, Tea everything. There was another bohra bhai use to visit too who used to write poems in shaan on Imam Husain so he was given a permanent slot before moharram majlis to recite his writing.
Shia's world wide whether in India, Iraq or Iran they don't care if you are bohra or sunni all are welcome for Gham-e-Husain.

On other hand Sunni's did express discomfort while i was praying my namaz with open hands. They wanted me to form Jamaat and fold hands while praying.

In short Shia of Moula Ali AS are better option for me.
I have never been to a shia mosque but i did pray in a sunni mosque once.

It was Ahmed Sailor masjid on Tulsi Pipe/Senapati Bapat road in Lower Parel (W) (incase any one would like to know), opposite peninsula corporate park

It was a Ramzan and i was there to just give company to a colleague who assured me it will be fine, but yes, i, with my Bohri topi and hands at my side did draw a lot of stares, some curious, some indifferent, but a lot, slightly hostile.

not that they ever said or did anything, but i distinctly remember it left me feeling quite umcomfortable. This was in the year 2016 i think, or it might have been 2015. quite certain it was not 2014 or 2017, so would have been one of these 2 years only

Mkenya
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#20

Unread post by Mkenya » Thu May 30, 2019 12:59 pm

I attend a large Sunni masjid or Jumaa and most noon prayers during Ramadhan. I have never felt conspicuous by not folding my hands. I have noticed quite a few who do not. A Sunni friend told me that Yemenis do not fold their hands.

allbird
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#21

Unread post by allbird » Fri May 31, 2019 9:34 am

But they are very particular about spreading legs and forming Jamaat. While i am very uncomfortable about spreading my legs wide and praying. Sometimes i do false stands and pray like they do and after pray the way i want.

Now i avoid their jamaat and but with shia imambargarh i am comfortable, infact very free. Sunni wahabi jamaat is no no for me especially saudi funded Arab's

SBM
Posts: 6229
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#22

Unread post by SBM » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:34 am

In Sunni, I think Shaafi or Hambli do NOT fold hands either. As far as spreading legs, these has to be a local issue, only time I had issue
was in Haji Ali Masjid when I was visiting India and the topi I was using kept on falling whenever I went in Sujood and guy next to me kept on putting that topi on my head as I never cared to put it back myself but other then that never had issue either in Sunni or Shia Masjid
Talking about Bohra Masjid--oh well it is the topic by itself

Mkenya
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#23

Unread post by Mkenya » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:34 pm

With Sunnis the Imam instructs attendees to ensure that shoulders and toes touch the next person. This stance ensures physical contact and unity. In a subliminal sense this posture keeps away Shaitaan's 'khalel'. Years ago when I asked a Bohri Imam his answer was: 'Sunni logo pag pohra kari ne namaaz padhe che karanke Nabi (SAW) ane Maulana Ali (AS) ne juda rakhwa maate'. What a cop out!

momeenbhai
Posts: 519
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:31 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#24

Unread post by momeenbhai » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:07 am

Bohra (brainwashed one) really believes their dai is GOD on earth.

amils do every possible hinting to prove this point.

they will never openly accept it, but their ultimate goal is to prove dai is GOD on earth and responsible for every happening in this world. nauzobillah.

few amils will also go to the extent where they will deny Quran and call it incomplete in order to prove their point.

Dettol
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:27 pm

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#25

Unread post by Dettol » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 pm

Twelver Shia parted away from right path after Imam Jaffer Sadik (a). They went "gumrah", thus they cannot be teacher to teach the "raah" (way) of religion.

Their leaders (maraji and ayatullah) are all crooked who loot money from their blind Twelver followers and never gives account for it.

Their Musa Kazim and Ali Reza were pawns of the then Abbasi Caliphs who kept their daughter name as "Aysha" and promoted their followers to keep names like: Mawiya, Marwan, Yazeed, Shimr, etc!!! Their Usul-a-Kafi is filled with these names of Twelever Shia who relayed chain of traditions.

Their majlis skilled oratory is like poison quoted in honey. Their shariyat is not relayed by their Imams but are the imagination and personal opinions of their maraji and ayatollah.

UnhappyBohra
Posts: 567
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#26

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:11 pm

Dettol wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 pm
Their shariyat is not relayed by their Imams but are the imagination and personal opinions of their maraji and ayatollah.
Hmmm Exactly like our buddy who fell off the horse then.....

momeenbhai
Posts: 519
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:31 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#27

Unread post by momeenbhai » Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:31 am

Dettol wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 pm
Twelver Shia parted away from right path after Imam Jaffer Sadik (a). They went "gumrah", thus they cannot be teacher to teach the "raah" (way) of religion.

Their leaders (maraji and ayatullah) are all crooked who loot money from their blind Twelver followers and never gives account for it.

Their Musa Kazim and Ali Reza were pawns of the then Abbasi Caliphs who kept their daughter name as "Aysha" and promoted their followers to keep names like: Mawiya, Marwan, Yazeed, Shimr, etc!!! Their Usul-a-Kafi is filled with these names of Twelever Shia who relayed chain of traditions.

Their majlis skilled oratory is like poison quoted in honey. Their shariyat is not relayed by their Imams but are the imagination and personal opinions of their maraji and ayatollah.
are you talking about the bohra majlis? because what ever you are stating here is exactly applicable to bohra Amils and their waez.

alivasan
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 9:28 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#28

Unread post by alivasan » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:35 am

UnhappyBohra wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:11 pm
Dettol wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:55 pm
Their shariyat is not relayed by their Imams but are the imagination and personal opinions of their maraji and ayatollah.
Hmmm Exactly like our buddy who fell off the horse then.....
You nailed it! 😆😆😆

SBM
Posts: 6229
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#29

Unread post by SBM » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:38 am

Their leaders (maraji and ayatullah) are all crooked who loot money from their blind Twelver followers and never gives account for it.
No one can beat Kothari Goons, There is NO Qadamboosi, Behtak, Paglas or Ziyafaats fro Marajas and Aytullahs.
Have you seen the simple life of Aytullaha Sistani lives, compare that to your Ayash Moulas in Saifee Mahal.
Again the mirror you look yourself is very Opaque or may be plastered with the pictures of your Corrupts Dais--from STS to SMS

Disclaimer
I am not associated with Jaffreias either but occasionly I do attend their Waiz and meet some of their top leaders alsong with other Sunni Scholars

Dettol
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:27 pm

Re: Bohras and Shia centers

#30

Unread post by Dettol » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:51 pm

SBM wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:38 am
Their leaders (maraji and ayatullah) are all crooked who loot money from their blind Twelver followers and never gives account for it.
No one can beat Kothari Goons, There is NO Qadamboosi, Behtak, Paglas or Ziyafaats fro Marajas and Aytullahs.
Have you seen the simple life of Aytullaha Sistani lives, compare that to your Ayash Moulas in Saifee Mahal.
Again the mirror you look yourself is very Opaque or may be plastered with the pictures of your Corrupts Dais--from STS to SMS

Disclaimer
I am not associated with Jaffreias either but occasionly I do attend their Waiz and meet some of their top leaders alsong with other Sunni Scholars
1/5th of commoner income is meant for Ithna Asheri's Imam, but for past 1200 years they do not know anything about their Imam! Still the Sistani takes 1/5 of commoner's income in his pocket, the money which was meant for their Imam. Their Imam has not permitted Sistani to collect money on his behalf but you see Sistani pockets 1/5 (Khums) of all Ithna Asheri income!

Sistani and alike are too much materially wealthy than Kothar because of population size.