Origin of Tayyibi Da'wah after Seclusion of Fatimid Imam(as)

[Ambassador_Mumbai]

Dear Learned Members on this Forum,

I read the sijil bisharat that Imam Amir(as) to Al Malika Hurra Syeda Arwa(RA), nowhere in it was the mention
of Imam(as) directing her to initiate the silsila of Duat Mutlaqeen, or ahd that One dai will not pass without appointing another.

What is the source of this claim?

Is the current setup initiated by Moulatona Hurratul Malika(RA) by her discretionary powers as Hujjat e Jazira or is it setup by her on the Indication of Imam Amir (as)?

Is there a credible documentary evidence supporting any of these claims?

Also few more questions,

Q1. Can anyone inform what setup Sayyidna Hatim Provided or designed for the children of the Dawah in his commanding book of Tuhfat al Qulub during the Satr?

Q 2. in which book of the Dawah it is mentioned precisely that the Dai has command of ilham ?

Q 3. Where it is mentioned that Dai al Mutlaq is Masum.
Please reply the answers only from the primary sources, and not from the books of any sheikh or mulla, like Luqmanji.

I believe, these principal questions can ascertain the original setup of the Dawah and the powers vested in Dai al Mutlaq.

[Qadir]

Dear Learned Members on this Forum,

I read the sijil bisharat that Imam Amir(as) to Al Malika Hurra Syeda Arwa(RA), nowhere in it was the mention
of Imam(as) directing her to initiate the silsila of Duat Mutlaqeen, or ahd that One dai will not pass without appointing another.

What is the source of this claim?

Is the current setup initiated by Moulatona Hurratul Malika(RA) by her discretionary powers as Hujjat e Jazira or is it setup by her on the Indication of Imam Amir (as)?

Is there a credible documentary evidence supporting any of these claims?

Also few more questions,

Q1. Can anyone inform what setup Sayyidna Hatim Provided or designed for the children of the Dawah in his commanding book of Tuhfat al Qulub during the Satr?

Q 2. in which book of the Dawah it is mentioned precisely that the Dai has command of ilham ?

Q 3. Where it is mentioned that Dai al Mutlaq is Masum.
Please reply the answers only from the primary sources, and not from the books of any sheikh or mulla, like Luqmanji.

I believe, these principal questions can ascertain the original setup of the Dawah and the powers vested in Dai al Mutlaq.

If you want answers to these questions, you should try to get sabaq of kitaab of Syedna Mohammed bin Taher, mazoon of Syedna Hatim. Its the first taweel kitab you get to pray after completing two zahir nisaabs (i.e. sabaq levels). But sometimes getting raza from Aamil saheb can get you enrolled in taweel upon completion of just daim ul islam vol 1 or even when you are still completing it.

[Qadir]

Sorry i forgot to mention but the kitaabs name is Majmu-at-tarbiyah

[Shabab]

Now we know this Qadir has turned up so stupid because of these sabaqs intense sessions.

[Shabab]

Sorry i forgot to mention but the kitaabs name is Majmu-at-tarbiyah

no matter how many kitaab you read if you don't have the sense to see the wrong and right then you are just a donkey who carries the burden of books but cant understand the idea of it, for your reference here is the ayat of the Quran which says the same thing.



مثل الذين حُمّلوا التورة ثم لم يحملوها كمثل الحمار يحمل اسفارا بئس مثل القوم الذين كذبوا بأياتِ اللهِ وللهُ لا يهدي القوم الظالمين

The example of those who were burdened with the Torah, but then did not carry it, is like an ass carrying books —evil is the example of the people which deny the signs of God, and God does not guide the wrongdoing people. [Qurʾān 62:5]

[dal-chaval-palidu]

Now we know this Qadir has turned up so stupid because of these sabaqs intense sessions.

Brother Qadir has always answered people in a decent manner. Even when I don't agree with him, and that is often, he is very courteous. He just sincerely answered the question. You may not agree, but at least maintain basic decorum.

As Fedup says, stop this foul-mouth approach.

[Shabab]

Now we know this Qadir has turned up so stupid because of these sabaqs intense sessions.

Brother Qadir has always answered people in a decent manner. Even when I don't agree with him, and that is often, he is very courteous. He just sincerely answered the question. You may not agree, but at least maintain basic decorum.

As Fedup says, stop this foul-mouth approach.

I dont need lesson from a neutral non-stand person like you, mind your own business, if there will be something wrong there are people to look after it.


WHY DONT YOU EVER COME OUT TO CRITICIZE THOSE WHO ACTUALLY ABUSE IMAM? AND MAKE FUN OF MATAM AND SHADAT OF IMAM HUSSAIN


seriously just mind your own business

[Biradar]

The origin of the dawaah in Yemen, which eventually led to the formation of the Tayyebi dawah is long and complex. It did not originate with the letter of Imam Aamir to M. Hurratul Maleka, but much, much before that. In fact, the original goal of the Imams, before they established the empire in Egypt was to go to Yemen. Hence the mission of the very famous da'i, Ibn Ḥawshab (Mansur al-Yaman) to that region to scout out the country for the establishment of the empire of the Imam. However, the empire eventually established itself in Egypt and Yemen lost some of its value. Later, the mission of the Sulayhid king and da'i S Ali bin Muhammad via da'i S. Lamak started the process of transfer of the dawaa literature to Yemen during the time of Imam Mustansir and under the guidance of the very great S. Moayyad Shirazi. I will try and describe this history soon, I hope.

The book Qadir mentioned (Majmu al-tarbiya) is simply a collection of older texts (and a few by Sayeda Muhammad bin Tahir himself) as the word "majmu" indicates. There are far better references, even to earlier writings of da'is during the first period of occultation of the Imams and of course the famous book of Tuhfat al-qulub of S. Hatim which describes the structure of the dawaat in its early period just after the second occultation in which the chain of duat mutlaqeen was established as the supreme heads of the dawaat in the absence of the Imam. Also, there is much description of the dawaat hierarchy in writings of S. Hamid al-din Kirmani and other writers. (BTW: Curiously, S. Kirmani actually lists four ranks rather than three that represent the Imam in his absence).

As to the position of M. Hurratul Maleka: she was the hujja of the Imam and had attained such a high position that she could recognize the will of the Imam from his mere signs, without the need for explicit instructions. In fact, the establishment of S. Zoeb as first da'i al-mutlaq was clearly her doing, though the process of establishing a supreme da'i in Yemen was started by the Imam himself when he appointed S. Lamak to the position of supreme da'i (da‘i al-balagh), which was then continued in his son, eventually leading to the position of S. Zoeb as the da'i al-mutlaq.

Now, S. Kirmani mentions that a each haad in the dawaat hierarchy is potentially the immediate higher rank. So, the bab is potentially the Imam, the hujja potentially the bab, etc. In the absence of the complete upper ranks of the dawaat i.e the Imam, the Bab, the Hujja and the da'i al-balagh, hence, the da'i al-mutlaq is potentially the Imam himself. Hence, the statement that the "da'i 'sits' on the throne of the Imam".

All of this is of theoretical interest only, of course. The da'is are human beings like all of us, with all the weaknesses and corruption of the flesh we all have. No need to elaborate as this obvious even to the most timid and sheep-like bohra.

[kseeker]

The origin of the dawaah in Yemen, which eventually led to the formation of the Tayyebi dawah is long and complex. It did not originate with the letter of Imam Aamir to M. Hurratul Maleka, but much, much before that. In fact, the original goal of the Imams, before they established the empire in Egypt was to go to Yemen. Hence the mission of the very famous da'i, Ibn Ḥawshab (Mansur al-Yaman) to that region to scout out the country for the establishment of the empire of the Imam. However, the empire eventually established itself in Egypt and Yemen lost some of its value. Later, the mission of the Sulayhid king and da'i S Ali bin Muhammad via da'i S. Lamak started the process of transfer of the dawaa literature to Yemen during the time of Imam Mustansir and under the guidance of the very great S. Moayyad Shirazi. I will try and describe this history soon, I hope.

The book Qadir mentioned (Majmu al-tarbiya) is simply a collection of older texts (and a few by Sayeda Muhammad bin Tahir himself) as the word "majmu" indicates. There are far better references, even to earlier writings of da'is during the first period of occultation of the Imams and of course the famous book of Tuhfat al-qulub of S. Hatim which describes the structure of the dawaat in its early period just after the second occultation in which the chain of duat mutlaqeen was established as the supreme heads of the dawaat in the absence of the Imam. Also, there is much description of the dawaat hierarchy in writings of S. Hamid al-din Kirmani and other writers. (BTW: Curiously, S. Kirmani actually lists four ranks rather than three that represent the Imam in his absence).

As to the position of M. Hurratul Maleka: she was the hujja of the Imam and had attained such a high position that she could recognize the will of the Imam from his mere signs, without the need for explicit instructions. In fact, the establishment of S. Zoeb as first da'i al-mutlaq was clearly her doing, though the process of establishing a supreme da'i in Yemen was started by the Imam himself when he appointed S. Lamak to the position of supreme da'i (da‘i al-balagh), which was then continued in his son, eventually leading to the position of S. Zoeb as the da'i al-mutlaq.

Now, S. Kirmani mentions that a each haad in the dawaat hierarchy is potentially the immediate higher rank. So, the bab is potentially the Imam, the hujja potentially the bab, etc. In the absence of the complete upper ranks of the dawaat i.e the Imam, the Bab, the Hujja and the da'i al-balagh, hence, the da'i al-mutlaq is potentially the Imam himself. Hence, the statement that the "da'i 'sits' on the throne of the Imam".

All of this is of theoretical interest only, of course. The da'is are human beings like all of us, with all the weaknesses and corruption of the flesh we all have. No need to elaborate as this obvious even to the most timid and sheep-like bohra.

Thank you for your input - It is good to see a sensible reply amongst a load of childish banter..
May I ask you, about this statement you made:

(BTW: Curiously, S. Kirmani actually lists four ranks rather than three that represent the Imam in his absence).

Are you referring to the bab,hujjat al lail, hujaat al nahar and dai al balagh as the four.. or a position apart from the Dai al mutliq, Mazoon al mutliq and mukasir?

[Biradar]

In his biography of his father, Ja'far bin Mansur al-Yaman says that in the absence of the Imam the dawa is established by three ranks: da'i mutlaq, ma'dhun al-mutlaq and ma'dhun al-mashur (i.e. the mukasir). In such times the Imam, Bab, hujjas and da'i al-balagh accompany the Imam into seclusion. This setup is also reflected in the writing of other da'is during the time of the Imams, in particular, the da'i Ahmad al-Naysaburi. al-Naysaburi also gives a detailed description of qualifications of a da'i in his book al-Mujaza. This book is copied by S. Hatim (the third da'i al-mutlaq) into his book Tuhfat al-qulub.

S. Kirmani in his book Rahat al-'aql mentions that the ranks after da'i al-balagh are: da'i al-mutlaq, da'i al-mahsur, ma'dun al-mutlaq and ma'dhun al-mashur, i.e. four ranks.

Now of course, we must not take any of these things too seriously as they are not written in stone. Depending on the circumstances the hierarchy may vary, and, in fact it did. For example, the early Yemeni conception of the da'wa was that of a confederation of da'is who were headed by the da'i al-mutlaq. In fact, there were many people who were called da'is. As I mentioned, S. Lamak was a da'i as was the king Ali al-Sulayhi, the first major ruler of the Sulayhi dynasty who controlled Yemen for many decades. The succession of chief da'is in Yemen was S. Lamak, then his son S. Yahya and then S. Zoeb bin Musa al-Wadi'i. The appointment of S. Zoeb already occurred before the disappearance of Imam Tayyeb, but he was elevated to the position of the supreme pontiff only when the complete break of Yemen and Egypt occurred after Imam Tayyeb vanished and the regent 'Abd al-Majid made the claim of Imamat for himself.

In India the da'wa structure changed, with only a single da'i who was assisted by a ma'dhun and a mukasir. Also, the understanding of the powers of a da'i also changed with time, essentially consolidating all power in him, making the position of the ma'dhun and mukasir only symbolic out of respect for historical precedent. Clearly, neither of these ranks had any real power or role any more. After the da'i the da'i's administrative arm was all powerful.

Now, more recently the da'is children have usurped all power in the community, turning it into their personal piggy bank and a never-ending source of bhakts who worship them like minor gods. I mean, consider the present situation: Muffy and his brothers and uncles enjoy lifestyle of billionaires, going from one vacation spot to another: months in Khandala, then Hasan Peer, then his private beach resort in Sri Lanka. When he gets bored there he will go somewhere else, perhaps Swiss Alps for a winter outing, or maybe to Africa for hunting lions and elephants. His father did the same, just that Muffy has perfected the lifestyle of a bum, that is, relaxing and enjoying all the time, 24x7 365 days a year. All his brothers are also lazy good-for-nothing leeches who suck the blood of the community, all the while getting fatter and fatter while the once-vibrant community is becoming more and more fanatical and narrow-minded by the day.

All this talk about da'wa hierarchy and what ancient book says what is totally meaningless. It is a nice distraction to keep the masses bamboozled while these modern-day Yazidis and Iblisi enjoy a lifestyle of extreme decadence. Do you actually think that any ancient book has anything of value to say about today? Say on the topic of cosmology, or even setup of the da'wa. Absolutely not! These books are not useful or valid any more. We live in a new reality in which whatever the da'i and his brothers and kids say is True (with a capital T) and everything else false. If he says women need to sit in the corner of the house, well that is what it must be! No need to argue or look at old, yellowing and worm eaten books. Just follow him. Or, leave this mad-house and focus on perfecting your own spiritual virtues. Clearly, these Iblisi people will lead you to hell. Best to stay away from them.

[Fedup]

After the seclusion of imam, the 4th rutba used to be Raas ul Hudood. Until the time of STS it was big thing, but since the time of SMB, it has disappeared. I even don't know who is the current Raas ul Hudood???

[kseeker]

In his biography of his father, Ja'far bin Mansur al-Yaman says that in the absence of the Imam the dawa is established by three ranks: da'i mutlaq, ma'dhun al-mutlaq and ma'dhun al-mashur (i.e. the mukasir). In such times the Imam, Bab, hujjas and da'i al-balagh accompany the Imam into seclusion. This setup is also reflected in the writing of other da'is during the time of the Imams, in particular, the da'i Ahmad al-Naysaburi. al-Naysaburi also gives a detailed description of qualifications of a da'i in his book al-Mujaza. This book is copied by S. Hatim (the third da'i al-mutlaq) into his book Tuhfat al-qulub.

S. Kirmani in his book Rahat al-'aql mentions that the ranks after da'i al-balagh are: da'i al-mutlaq, da'i al-mahsur, ma'dun al-mutlaq and ma'dhun al-mashur, i.e. four ranks.

Now of course, we must not take any of these things too seriously as they are not written in stone. Depending on the circumstances the hierarchy may vary, and, in fact it did. For example, the early Yemeni conception of the da'wa was that of a confederation of da'is who were headed by the da'i al-mutlaq. In fact, there were many people who were called da'is. As I mentioned, S. Lamak was a da'i as was the king Ali al-Sulayhi, the first major ruler of the Sulayhi dynasty who controlled Yemen for many decades. The succession of chief da'is in Yemen was S. Lamak, then his son S. Yahya and then S. Zoeb bin Musa al-Wadi'i. The appointment of S. Zoeb already occurred before the disappearance of Imam Tayyeb, but he was elevated to the position of the supreme pontiff only when the complete break of Yemen and Egypt occurred after Imam Tayyeb vanished and the regent 'Abd al-Majid made the claim of Imamat for himself.

In India the da'wa structure changed, with only a single da'i who was assisted by a ma'dhun and a mukasir. Also, the understanding of the powers of a da'i also changed with time, essentially consolidating all power in him, making the position of the ma'dhun and mukasir only symbolic out of respect for historical precedent. Clearly, neither of these ranks had any real power or role any more. After the da'i the da'i's administrative arm was all powerful.

Now, more recently the da'is children have usurped all power in the community, turning it into their personal piggy bank and a never-ending source of bhakts who worship them like minor gods. I mean, consider the present situation: Muffy and his brothers and uncles enjoy lifestyle of billionaires, going from one vacation spot to another: months in Khandala, then Hasan Peer, then his private beach resort in Sri Lanka. When he gets bored there he will go somewhere else, perhaps Swiss Alps for a winter outing, or maybe to Africa for hunting lions and elephants. His father did the same, just that Muffy has perfected the lifestyle of a bum, that is, relaxing and enjoying all the time, 24x7 365 days a year. All his brothers are also lazy good-for-nothing leeches who suck the blood of the community, all the while getting fatter and fatter while the once-vibrant community is becoming more and more fanatical and narrow-minded by the day.

All this talk about da'wa hierarchy and what ancient book says what is totally meaningless. It is a nice distraction to keep the masses bamboozled while these modern-day Yazidis and Iblisi enjoy a lifestyle of extreme decadence. Do you actually think that any ancient book has anything of value to say about today? Say on the topic of cosmology, or even setup of the da'wa. Absolutely not! These books are not useful or valid any more. We live in a new reality in which whatever the da'i and his brothers and kids say is True (with a capital T) and everything else false. If he says women need to sit in the corner of the house, well that is what it must be! No need to argue or look at old, yellowing and worm eaten books. Just follow him. Or, leave this mad-house and focus on perfecting your own spiritual virtues. Clearly, these Iblisi people will lead you to hell. Best to stay away from them.

Thank you very much for sharing that.
As for the comments you passed about the importance of it today, I can only share my opinion that remembering and learning about our history helps define us, bring purpose to our lives and most importantly helps us learn from the mistakes we made... In the case of Dawoodi bohras, it also frees us from the shackles of the current administration... If you would have not known or did not have the access to the knowledge you do today, it would be possible you would be one of the herd.. I say that for myself as well.. though I do believe your knowledge is far greater than mine..
Another problem we as a community face is our heritage and surroundings.. we are heavily influenced by Hinduism and maybe that is why we move so quickly to turn humans to gods

Lastly, i do believe and agree that so much is no more relevant to our time.. hopefully it is an indication that the era of the next natiq is here soon... I hope I see it and find the true path before the day I die.