Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
bohra_manus
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: Protest Against Mufaddal's Visit

#31

Unread post by bohra_manus » Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:14 am

ilhamafief94 wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:24 pm Hello, I am an Imami Shia who wants to move to Dawoodi Bohra. Maybe with the reformers. How do I get recognized? Should I do the misaq and to whom?

Then in the Imamiyah Shia there are several ways of salah, between Marja and other there are slight differences.
Then what about in the middle of Bohra itself? I saw many salah videos of Alavi Bohra on youtube. Is Dawoodi Bohra's salah method exactly the same?
Make sure to understand various funds that are collected under the name of Sabil (local jamat maintenance), Vajebaat (Islamic Zakat), several dozen other funds. They will tell you there is no compulsion but there is. The Sabil & Vajebaat are collected as per the whims of the local Amil without any relevance to the situation. Then there is a full control on your life on how you dress, how you name your children, the concept of Raza (permission) for anything you do. If you do not pay up your dues, your Raza is stopped, no other bohras are allowed to keep relations with you if your Raza is withdrawn.
Sorry for the harbinger of the negatives but this is why I chose to leave the cult.

Kaka Akela
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#32

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:54 pm

If you chose to leave the cult, then why are you still here???
To discourage someone else is a big gunah that you will have to answer for after you die. You can not escape the cult of death.

Kaka Akela
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#33

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:07 pm

In my experience, real atheists tend to completely ignore religion, it doesn't mean anything to them. I suspect that atheists who keep attacking religion are not yet free of it and perhaps might be subconsciously agnostic. It's like ex-nicotine addicts. When they still talk about smoking they haven't totally quit yet.

bohra_manus
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#34

Unread post by bohra_manus » Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:30 pm

Kaka Akela wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:54 pm If you chose to leave the cult, then why are you still here???
To discourage someone else is a big gunah that you will have to answer for after you die. You can not escape the cult of death.
The same reason as you are here.

Biradar
Posts: 991
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#35

Unread post by Biradar » Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:16 pm

It is amusing to see the Admin squirm about the "official" Progressive position on the da'i. They clearly feel that being Bohra means accepting the position of the da'i. but they can not bring themselves to accept the current incumbents or the past several ones as "legitimate". Truly, a strange situations the Progressives find themselves in! Specially with a schism, they do not know who to follow, and will likely with go with the majority, however distasteful that choice will be (Muffy).

In reality, what we need to understand that this concept of da'i is essentially a flawed one, even in principle. It is hard to maintain that a guy in India who leads a dwindling population of followers is the "only legitimate" successor to the Prophet. It is absurd in the highest degree. Islam is essentially a religion of individual salvation, in which you and only you are responsible for yourself. There is no officially ordination process in Islam, unlike Catholicisms, and religious "ulema" remain merely guides to help interpret the sometimes complex legal and ritualistic issues. They do not have a right to dictate how you should otherwise live your life. In fact, mullah are best relegated to the corner, allowed to lead prayers and the like and then made to stay quiet while the issues of running local jammaats are discussed.

As to the so-called ulema. They are merely puppets in the hands of the da'i and even in the past, were concerned with power and nothing else. They do not come off as paragons of virtue, no matter what the Ustadi Bohras, i.e. the bhakts of Ahmak Ali Raj et al say.

Also, I find it really funny that ajamali is so much in love with SKQ's kids that he is blind to the fact that all these people are cut from the same wicked cloth as Muffy. One may be somewhat better than the other, but none of them has any right at this point to boss it over others. I think for about 4-5 generations the kids of SKQ should remain quiet and submissive, give away all their wealth and privilege and adopt a meek and submissive attitude. They should apologize at every possible opportunity for the wealth hording their daddy, uncle and grandpa did for the last 100 years. Then, and perhaps only then, can they obtain forgiveness. Muffy is certainly not going to do this, and so is bound for hell himself, let alone help anyone else into heaven.

Finally, one would be a total fool or insane to convert to bohraism. It is a mad house run by the Whore of Babylon. Best to stay away.

Kaka Akela
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#36

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:50 pm

[quote=bohra_manus post_id=183257 time=1633476609 user_id=20797]
[quote="Kaka Akela" post_id=183255 time=1633452860 user_id=770]
If you chose to leave the cult, then why are you still here???
To discourage someone else is a big gunah that you will have to answer for after you die. You can not escape the cult of death.
[/quote]
The same reason as you are here.
[/quote]

I am here because I have not claimed to have left the cult as you have

ilhamafief94
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna. Kaka Akela

#37

Unread post by ilhamafief94 » Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:13 am

I want to join the Dawoodi Bohra community. But in my country, these communities are rare and very far away from my place. I haven't been able to come in person because of the pandemic. What if I die before I enter this community? Do I die Muslim or non-Muslim when I not yet recognized the Ismaili Imamat?

Thank you, regards.

Kaka Akela
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#38

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:34 am

ilhamafief94

Shia means one who loves Panjatan and their ahl e bait and their descendents. Whether you die as imami shiaor dawoodi bohra shia makes no difference. Your love and obedience of them will abundantly qualify you to land in jannat after you die. These are not my words but there many a hadis in which this guarantee is given.
I don't know what country you live in and how old you are but you must stop thinking of dying and keep a positive outlook on life and keep striving. If i knew about your country and city, i could advise you, guide you to the closest location of Dawoodi Bohras.

ilhamafief94
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#39

Unread post by ilhamafief94 » Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:14 am

I'm from Kudus city in Indonesia, the closest area to Dawoodi Bohra where I'm is in Bali. From my town to Bali is more than 700 km. That's very far and I can't go there because it's still a pandemic, some cities are closed.

So according to Dawoodi Bohra's belief, all those who say the syahadatain are Muslims?

Kaka Akela
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#40

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:35 am

"So according to Dawoodi Bohra's belief, all those who say the syahadatain are Muslims?"

Idk what syahadatain means??
Any one who recites kalemat us shahadat is a muslim. But anyone who believes Ali A S as the appointed successor (Vasi) of Rasulullah S A and that the imamat remains in the progeny of Ali A S till the day of judgement is a momin (shia). Think of a big circle as muslim, and a small circle inside this big circle as momin.
All muslims are not momins but all momins are muslims first.
I can not believe there are no bohras in kudus city?? They are everywhere.
Just type wala in google search or in phone directory and their names will pop up. Some may be hindu gujrati and some will be bohra men. Most bohra names end in wala, try it. Good luck

ilhamafief94
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#41

Unread post by ilhamafief94 » Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:08 am

If you are in India, you may not believe that in a city there is no Bohra in it. But Indonesia is a Sunni country. In my country there is Amil Saheb and he is in Bali. I have called him and I want to ask a few questions about Bohra, but he refuses to answer on the phone. He wanted me to go straight to him. Even though it's still a pandemic and flights there are also expensive.

Dear Akela, are you Dawoodi Bohra or Progressive Dawoodi Bohra?

ajamali
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#42

Unread post by ajamali » Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:11 am

Biradar wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:16 pm


Also, I find it really funny that ajamali is so much in love with SKQ's kids that he is blind to the fact that all these people are cut from the same wicked cloth as Muffy. One may be somewhat better than the other, but none of them has any right at this point to boss it over others. Yaad yada.


You comment has nothing to do with my last post.

Biradar
Posts: 991
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#43

Unread post by Biradar » Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:14 am

ajamali wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:11 am
Biradar wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:16 pm


Also, I find it really funny that ajamali is so much in love with SKQ's kids that he is blind to the fact that all these people are cut from the same wicked cloth as Muffy. One may be somewhat better than the other, but none of them has any right at this point to boss it over others. Yaad yada.


You comment has nothing to do with my last post.
Lol. So what?

Every time someone confronts you with the obvious foolishness of your fan-boy worship of SKQ's kids you become evasive are unable to answer the questions and concerns raised about the exact similarity between the behavior of Muffy and his father, grandfather and the silent but enjoyable and luxurious lifestyle of SKQ based on the proceeds of the mafia organization run by his brother and dad. These people lived a life of ultra-luxury, enjoying non-stop vacations, private schools in Australia and elsewhere, ski-trips, attention of fawning fan-boys like yourself, but now they are suddenly projecting an image of humility and compassion. You can't see that SMB was an insane megalomaniac who created a cult of personality around himself, amassing wealth that would make Firon blush. In his megalomania and love of wealth he even ate ziyafats a few minutes after the maqtal of Imam Hussain, and on normal days ate about 10 ziyafats, sometimes more. He perfected the art of charging 10s of thousands for titles, which he sold like the Whore of Babylon sold her favors.

Yet, you have the gal to confront the Admin, who has made clear that they do not support the nefarious character of Muffy but still consider the office of da'i to be important in the Bohra maslaaq. This is a position I do not find consistent either, but then it not consistent to curse Muffy, as you do, but turn a blind eye to the same behavior in SMB and his dad.

Biradar
Posts: 991
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#44

Unread post by Biradar » Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:28 am

ilhamafief94 wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:08 am If you are in India, you may not believe that in a city there is no Bohra in it. But Indonesia is a Sunni country. In my country there is Amil Saheb and he is in Bali. I have called him and I want to ask a few questions about Bohra, but he refuses to answer on the phone. He wanted me to go straight to him. Even though it's still a pandemic and flights there are also expensive.

Dear Akela, are you Dawoodi Bohra or Progressive Dawoodi Bohra?
Ya Allah! This is the first time I have met someone who willingly wants to join a mad-house and jump into a burning and collapsing building while everyone else is fleeing to safety!!

If you really want to join the gang of thieves, then yes, it is a good idea to take a risk and spend money to go meet the local mafia boss (aka amil) of the central Mafia Chief, fondly named as Muffy. I guess if you as so gung-ho on this then why spare the expense? Sacrifice your health and wealth, now that you have sacrificed your sanity already.

In any case, this forum is not the right place to ask these questions. Vast majority of the people here do not like Muffy or his dad or his granddad. Of course, I think you are just a troll creating fitna for the sake of it. But these days it is hard to tell: we live in a time when people seriously hold insane beliefs that would have been considered absurd and foolish just a few years ago!

Sheikh Ali sadiq
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:44 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#45

Unread post by Sheikh Ali sadiq » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:26 am

Jamia graduate is acting as an Indonesian who wants to become a bohra, dont know whats this attempt for

ilhamafief94
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#46

Unread post by ilhamafief94 » Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:03 am

Biradar wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:28 am
ilhamafief94 wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:08 am If you are in India, you may not believe that in a city there is no Bohra in it. But Indonesia is a Sunni country. In my country there is Amil Saheb and he is in Bali. I have called him and I want to ask a few questions about Bohra, but he refuses to answer on the phone. He wanted me to go straight to him. Even though it's still a pandemic and flights there are also expensive.

Dear Akela, are you Dawoodi Bohra or Progressive Dawoodi Bohra?
Ya Allah! This is the first time I have met someone who willingly wants to join a mad-house and jump into a burning and collapsing building while everyone else is fleeing to safety!!

If you really want to join the gang of thieves, then yes, it is a good idea to take a risk and spend money to go meet the local mafia boss (aka amil) of the central Mafia Chief, fondly named as Muffy. I guess if you as so gung-ho on this then why spare the expense? Sacrifice your health and wealth, now that you have sacrificed your sanity already.

In any case, this forum is not the right place to ask these questions. Vast majority of the people here do not like Muffy or his dad or his granddad. Of course, I think you are just a troll creating fitna for the sake of it. But these days it is hard to tell: we live in a time when people seriously hold insane beliefs that would have been considered absurd and foolish just a few years ago!
For all, I just want to study Ismaili Syi'ah, Dawoodi Bohra is the alternative. At the beginning, I asked how to become Ismaili Syi'ah, whether it's Progressive Dawoodi, Original Dawoodi or whatever it's called.

I'm not a Jamia graduate or anything like that, and I'm real Indonesian. Please send me your whatsapp number, I will show you who I am. I'm not Indian, a Bohra or something like that. I just wanted to study Ismaili teachings. For you guys, anyone who can teach me and give me reading resources, I'll appreciate it.

Kaka Akela
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#47

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:05 pm

ilhamafief94

You asked me what i am, a dawoodi bohra or a reformist bohra??
Honestly, i don't know what i am. I practice bohra religion but i also criticize many of their practices which border on insatiable greed for money.
Also question the caste system in bohra religion and the prevalent and obvious nepotism but as for as religious practices go it is a pristine religion to follow.
I see no reason for you to forego your imami shia religion to switch to dawoodi bohra religion. Stay shia that is all required of you.

ilhamafief94
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#48

Unread post by ilhamafief94 » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:55 pm

Kaka Akela wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:05 pm ilhamafief94

You asked me what i am, a dawoodi bohra or a reformist bohra??
Honestly, i don't know what i am. I practice bohra religion but i also criticize many of their practices which border on insatiable greed for money.
Also question the caste system in bohra religion and the prevalent and obvious nepotism but as for as religious practices go it is a pristine religion to follow.
I see no reason for you to forego your imami shia religion to switch to dawoodi bohra religion. Stay shia that is all required of you.
Dear Kaka Akela, thank you for your answer and advice, it helps a little to understand the basis of Ismaili Shia. But do you have a fiqh book from the Ismailis? I just wanted to study it, because for years I searched for such a book in my country, but I couldn't find one.

Kaka Akela
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#49

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:14 pm

ilhamafief94

I don't know what fiqh book imami shias use, we ismaili bohras use the 2 volume book of Daiem ul Islam by Syedna Qazi Noman. It is in Arabic. But Dr Ismail Poonawala has translated it in English. He is a retired Professor Emeritus at UCLA. This book (both volumes) are available on Amazon.com or from Ismaili Research Institute in London. I have both volumes of his and in Urdu by another author, and i refer to them frequently for clarifications.
On this website, if you go to home age and cruise from there, Prof. Poonawala's books are mentioned in more detail. Good luck

ilhamafief94
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#50

Unread post by ilhamafief94 » Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:16 am

Kaka Akela wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:14 pm ilhamafief94

I don't know what fiqh book imami shias use, we ismaili bohras use the 2 volume book of Daiem ul Islam by Syedna Qazi Noman. It is in Arabic. But Dr Ismail Poonawala has translated it in English. He is a retired Professor Emeritus at UCLA. This book (both volumes) are available on Amazon.com or from Ismaili Research Institute in London. I have both volumes of his and in Urdu by another author, and i refer to them frequently for clarifications.
On this website, if you go to home age and cruise from there, Prof. Poonawala's books are mentioned in more detail. Good luck
Is there a PDF format? And anyone here who is Shia Ismaili Mustaliyah, can you give me a source of fiqh?

ilhamafief94
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#51

Unread post by ilhamafief94 » Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:17 am

ilhamafief94 wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:16 am
Kaka Akela wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:14 pm ilhamafief94

I don't know what fiqh book imami shias use, we ismaili bohras use the 2 volume book of Daiem ul Islam by Syedna Qazi Noman. It is in Arabic. But Dr Ismail Poonawala has translated it in English. He is a retired Professor Emeritus at UCLA. This book (both volumes) are available on Amazon.com or from Ismaili Research Institute in London. I have both volumes of his and in Urdu by another author, and i refer to them frequently for clarifications.
On this website, if you go to home age and cruise from there, Prof. Poonawala's books are mentioned in more detail. Good luck
Is there a PDF format? I watched a lot of Alavi Bohra prayer videos, is the way they pray the same as Dawoodi Bohra?
And anyone here who is Shia Ismaili Mustaliyah, can you give me a source of fiqh?

Kaka Akela
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#52

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:45 am

ilhamafief94

You have asked 3 questions
1) is Alavi bohra prayer same as ours?
Yes, i would imagine so. We share first 28 dai (s) with them and they are also ismaili bohras and follow the same fiqh book of Syedna Qazi Noman.
2) is any one here ismaili Mustaliyaglh shia??
Yes, all Dawoodi bohras are, including me and all others.
3) can you give me a source of fiqh??
I already gave you the source, Daiem ul islam by Syedna Qazi Noman (2 volumes). Needless to say these 2 volumes are derived from teaching of Quran, hadith, and teachings of aimmat tahereen.
Now let me ask you a question, what fiqh book imami shias follow??

ilhamafief94
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#53

Unread post by ilhamafief94 » Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:25 am

Kaka Akela wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:45 am ilhamafief94

You have asked 3 questions
1) is Alavi bohra prayer same as ours?
Yes, i would imagine so. We share first 28 dai (s) with them and they are also ismaili bohras and follow the same fiqh book of Syedna Qazi Noman.
2) is any one here ismaili Mustaliyaglh shia??
Yes, all Dawoodi bohras are, including me and all others.
3) can you give me a source of fiqh??
I already gave you the source, Daiem ul islam by Syedna Qazi Noman (2 volumes). Needless to say these 2 volumes are derived from teaching of Quran, hadith, and teachings of aimmat tahereen.
Now let me ask you a question, what fiqh book imami shias follow??
Imamiyah have 4 main books of hadith, Al Kafi, Al Istibshar, Ma La Yadhuruhul Faqih and Tahdzib Ahkam. I'm follow Imam Khamenei's marja before. Because each marja / mujtahid has a slightly different interpretation.

Thank you for helping answer my questions, is there a pdf I can get about Ismaili fiqh? Or are they all hard files?

Kaka Akela
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#54

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:05 am

I don't honestly know.
I think if it was in PDF version, the file would be too large and eat up the memory of your laptop as each volume is about 500-600 pages.

ilhamafief94
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#55

Unread post by ilhamafief94 » Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:00 pm

Kaka Akela wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:05 am I don't honestly know.
I think if it was in PDF version, the file would be too large and eat up the memory of your laptop as each volume is about 500-600 pages.
Some people say that the current Syedna system is corrupt and collects a lot of taxes. What percentage of tax do you pay each month or year? Suppose my salary per month is $500 USD , how much should I pay?

Kaka Akela
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#56

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:25 pm

Their insatiable greed for money is a pandora's box, which i dare not open. I have spoken against it here many times before.
What is your dissatisfaction with being a imami shia?? Or what is your fascination with Dawood Bohra ( ismaili Mustaaliyah shia)???
You are trading one set of problems with another set, but why??? Either way you are a shia, so stay there. As they say," A devil you know is better than a devil you don't know". If you were not already a shia then i would encourage or welcome you but you being already a shia, there is no need to switch.

Sheikh Ali sadiq
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:44 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#57

Unread post by Sheikh Ali sadiq » Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:39 am

As long as you are shia of Imam Ali and not the lover of Muawiyah and Yazeed and their alikes (Like our sunni "brothers") , you will do fine in Akhirah INSHALLAH

Also try to be best with your own amal.

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#58

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:00 am

ilhamafief94 wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:55 pm
Kaka Akela wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:05 pm ilhamafief94

You asked me what i am, a dawoodi bohra or a reformist bohra??
Honestly, i don't know what i am. I practice bohra religion but i also criticize many of their practices which border on insatiable greed for money.
Also question the caste system in bohra religion and the prevalent and obvious nepotism but as for as religious practices go it is a pristine religion to follow.
I see no reason for you to forego your imami shia religion to switch to dawoodi bohra religion. Stay shia that is all required of you.
Dear Kaka Akela, thank you for your answer and advice, it helps a little to understand the basis of Ismaili Shia. But do you have a fiqh book from the Ismailis? I just wanted to study it, because for years I searched for such a book in my country, but I couldn't find one.
May be the institute of Ismaili Studies in London has some material that may help you. Just google them.

ilhamafief94
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#59

Unread post by ilhamafief94 » Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:53 am

Thank you all for the information. I am Shia and I am very interested in comparative madhhab. I've studied Imamiyah, Zaydiyah, Sunni, etc. But I think the most difficult literature for me to find is the teachings of Bohra, maybe Sulaymani Bohra too. So I came here to learn more.

Biradar
Posts: 991
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#60

Unread post by Biradar » Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:45 pm

ilhamafief94 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:53 am Thank you all for the information. I am Shia and I am very interested in comparative madhhab. I've studied Imamiyah, Zaydiyah, Sunni, etc. But I think the most difficult literature for me to find is the teachings of Bohra, maybe Sulaymani Bohra too. So I came here to learn more.
There is not much difference (in the doctrinal beliefs, I mean) between the various Tayebi offshoots, i.e. the Dawoodis, Sulemanis, Alavis and other minor sects. They all follow the Da'im al-Islam for their legal practice but more often rely on prayer manuals produced locally. For example, the previous Sayenda's wife made a good manual based on earlier works in which she described every ritual and the logic behind it in great detail. However, it is in Gujrathi language written in Arabic script so you won't be able to understand it, unless you speak Gujrathi already. Bohras in general were secularized and also tend to resolve their issues in secular courts. However, recently, the mad-man in charge, i.e. Muffy, has tried to change that by appointing local "Qazya Committees" to handle matters internally.

If you really can't find Da'im al-Islam let me know and I will attempt to get an English PDF for you from my university library.

However, caution that the Bohra fiqh literature is unlike the Sunni or Imami Shias in that the chain of narrations are typically abbreviated and omitted. The logic behind this is that the Da'im was approved by the Imam himself so is essentially canonical and no further narrative authority is needed. Further, the practice of daily prayers is very similar to the Sunni madhabs rather than the Shia ones (of course there are minor differences). This may appear somewhat strange but it is probably because the author of the Da'im was likely a follower of Hanafi madhab before he converted to the Ismaili cause.

However, the most interesting aspect of the Ismaili beliefs are not in the daily rituals but in their esoteric interpretation of Islam. This aspect of Ismailism is controversial to say the least. However, it is well-founded on the primary texts of Islam, though the haqqaiq literature is a strange concoction of tribal superstition and magical thinking. In my opinion though the taweel interpretation of Islam is well-founded, haqqaiq literature represent the incursion of superstitions of Yemei origin that were mixed up in Ismaili beliefs as the Yemenis were great supporters of Ismailis for a few centuries.

Incidentally, the main difference between the various Bohra factions is ethnic and not doctrinal: Sulemanis are mostly ethnic Arabs, Dawoodis are moslty ethnic Indians. These ethocentric groups are unlike the larger Islamic denominations and Sufi groups in that the latter are genuinely transnational and trans-ethnic.